Which is better...AP or CC classes??

[Mommyfaithe]

I am really confused. We always waited for our kids to turn 18 before starting cc...but my next ds is not only ready, but he is going to be really bored (and start to fail...) if we don't beef up his expectations and work load. He has an option of AP or CC classes....

What are the pros and cons of each??

Thanks,

Faithe

[Gwen in VA]

Which is better depends on where your student is going...as well as logistical things like how far away the CC is, scheduling, etc.

 

AP's -- pros

1) Rigorous online classes easily available. Most "top" students at public high schools take them.

2) Good score on AP exam shows admissions people that your child is capable of advanced work.

3) Taking AP courses certainly shows that your child is doing "most rigorous" courses (a term found on the guidance counselor recommendation portion of almost all of my kids' college applications).

4) Good scores on AP exams can result in generous amounts of college credits. (My kids each entered with over 20 credits due to AP exams, and had fulfilled most of the gen ed requirements before they set foot on the campus their freshman year!)

 

cons

1) $$$ A good score depends on one three hour exam so a lot depends on one three-hour exam.

2) It can sometimes be difficult to find a school that will offer the AP exam to your child.

3) Not all colleges accept AP credit. Some elite schools don't accept AP credit, though most do. Our community college does not look at AP scores at all.

 

Community College classes -- pros

1) Usually cheaper.

2) Wide variety of classes readily available.

3) Courses can transfer to a wide variety of colleges.

 

cons --

1) Sometimes students at CC aren't your top students, so concern about social/academic influences.

2) Some schools (just like with AP) don't take CC credits. Check with the schools your child is considering.

3) Involves commuting.

4)Quality seems to vary wildly.

 

Definitely consider the schools your child is looking at. Consider your child and his/her academic abilities. Consider your goals -- is the purpose of doing AP/CC to give your child a strong education, to get college credit, or to look impressive to admissions people? (Probably some of each, but consider.....)

 

I hope others weigh in on this!

[HollyinNNV]

Add to the cons for cc: Some classes include content that many of us would deem inappropriate for high schoolers, especially younger high schoolers.

[Kathy in Richmond]

Our reasons are pretty simple:

 

1) The kids weren't driving by the time they needed advanced classes. It would take too much time away from the other's schooling and my day if I were gone driving one there, waiting an hour or two, and then returning. Even now when I'm down to one dd, we like the efficiency of working at home.

 

2) Cost - we self-study and only use selected online AP classes, saving a lot of $ that way!

 

3) Quality - the AP classes are more challenging than the CC classes offered locally, and my kids needed that.

 

4) Transfer to college - my son's college gave him credit/advanced standing for his AP scores; it looks more favorably on AP than on cc classes. This varies from college to college, so it's best to look at the colleges your child is interested in before making a decision.

 

5)My kids do well/don't stress out with the actual AP testing, so they don't mind that a lot of their class "documentation" comes from a single test. Again, all kids are different, and I would never do this with one who

had a hard time with that.

 

good luck deciding!

 

~Kathy

[FloridaLisa]

Adding to the growing list:

 

1) Numbers of courses -- The student usually can fit in more courses per year than taking all AP courses or high school courses, since they use the semester system.

 

2) There may also be a wider selection of courses at the CC.

 

3) Finally, you may want to consider how the GPA will be weighted. Colleges vary on this but some will weight AP grades than CC grades, while others may weight them the same. Some may not weight at all! But, it could be a consideration so check with college possibilities.

 

HTH,

Lisa

[Mommyfaithe]

Add to the cons for cc: Some classes include content that many of us would deem inappropriate for high schoolers, especially younger high schoolers.

 

This was my BIGGEST concern...and I speak from the experience of 3 kiddoes doing cc classes at 18. I had ds (18) wait another semester before doing Eng. 101 just for this reason. I am amazed at the amount of adult issues in these classes...surely we can concentrate on issues other than anorexia, homosexuality and alcoholism(drug addiction)which, according to the literature handed out all result from bad parenting, family and church.

We are not ultra conservative...and we are not naive and neither are our kids...but it seems to me the biggest goal of Eng 101 is to shock entering freshman with all types of issues that they are expected to analyze...form an opinion on and solve at 18 years old when their main concern is whether their jeans make them look fat or that girl was really smiling at me. Sorry for the rant..LOL. It struck a nerve...and it is very sad that standards are where they are today...sigh....

Faithe

[Mommyfaithe]

Our reasons are pretty simple:

 

1) The kids weren't driving by the time they needed advanced classes. It would take too much time away from the other's schooling and my day if I were gone driving one there, waiting an hour or two, and then returning. Even now when I'm down to one dd, we like the efficiency of working at home.

 

2) Cost - we self-study and only use selected online AP classes, saving a lot of $ that way!

 

3) Quality - the AP classes are more challenging than the CC classes offered locally, and my kids needed that.

 

4) Transfer to college - my son's college gave him credit/advanced standing for his AP scores; it looks more favorably on AP than on cc classes. This varies from college to college, so it's best to look at the colleges your child is interested in before making a decision.

 

5)My kids do well/don't stress out with the actual AP testing, so they don't mind that a lot of their class "documentation" comes from a single test. Again, all kids are different, and I would never do this with one who

had a hard time with that.

 

good luck deciding!

 

~Kathy

 

 

hi kathy,

 

I have a question: Do you sign up for AP tests the same way we sign up for SAT's, through the College Board website? or do we have to go through the local school system?

Thanks,

Faithe

[Mommyfaithe]

Which is better depends on where your student is going...as well as logistical things like how far away the CC is, scheduling, etc.

 

AP's -- pros

1) Rigorous online classes easily available. Most "top" students at public high schools take them.

2) Good score on AP exam shows admissions people that your child is capable of advanced work.

3) Taking AP courses certainly shows that your child is doing "most rigorous" courses (a term found on the guidance counselor recommendation portion of almost all of my kids' college applications).

4) Good scores on AP exams can result in generous amounts of college credits. (My kids each entered with over 20 credits due to AP exams, and had fulfilled most of the gen ed requirements before they set foot on the campus their freshman year!)

 

cons

1) $$$ A good score depends on one three hour exam so a lot depends on one three-hour exam.

2) It can sometimes be difficult to find a school that will offer the AP exam to your child.

3) Not all colleges accept AP credit. Some elite schools don't accept AP credit, though most do. Our community college does not look at AP scores at all.

 

Community College classes -- pros

1) Usually cheaper.

2) Wide variety of classes readily available.

3) Courses can transfer to a wide variety of colleges.

 

cons --

1) Sometimes students at CC aren't your top students, so concern about social/academic influences.

2) Some schools (just like with AP) don't take CC credits. Check with the schools your child is considering.

3) Involves commuting.

4)Quality seems to vary wildly.

 

Definitely consider the schools your child is looking at. Consider your child and his/her academic abilities. Consider your goals -- is the purpose of doing AP/CC to give your child a strong education, to get college credit, or to look impressive to admissions people? (Probably some of each, but consider.....)

 

I hope others weigh in on this!

 

Great reply...plenty to consider. Thanks for taking your time to answer this question. I really appreciate your thoughtful answer.

Faithe

[Janet in WA]

We chose cc because of two pros that I haven't seen mentioned yet:

 

1. FREE (Running Start dual enrollment in WA)

 

2. Actual college classroom experience while they are still at home under our guidance.

 

In our case, because of our very popular and very successful dual enrollment program, all cc classes transferred and were given weight equal to AP (at least according to admissions info provided by the universities here in WA).

[Kathy in Richmond]

I have a question: Do you sign up for AP tests the same way we sign up for SAT's, through the College Board website? or do we have to go through the local school system?.

 

Unfortunately no - you sign up like you do for the PSAT, by finding a local school that will agree to administer the exams to your child. I usually start calling around in January. So far I've had good luck with the neighborhood public high school. The only problems I've had were with locating the less commonly given Latin and Physics C exams - I found schools in Richmond that were willing, but it took several phone calls for those two.

 

Here's a good website to start your search for a local school:

 

AP Course Ledger

 

hth,

 

~Kathy

[Nan in Mass]

We had to choose something to validate my mummy transcript: AP, SATII, or CC. My son is wired a bit differently and doesn't test well. A college level course without an enormous test at the end was better for him. Yes, he has to deal with finals, but the finals are only half a year, not a whole year, and are written by a professor who is testing more or less exactly what he tried to teach (smaller scope). He is also available (in theory) for answering questions.

 

The biggest reason we chose CC over AP had nothing to do with validation or testing - we were worried that our son, having been out of the classroom since 4th grade, would be missing some of the skills that make it easier to survive a college work load. It is possible to teach those skills at home, but we have chosen to homeschool high school in a less than traditional manner. We are hoping that community college classes will be a bridge to regular college classes. We began by choosing classes that were didn't require lots of writing (speech and drawing), during which my son learned how to sign up for classes, buying books, checking class email, syllabi, office hours, calculating a grade, taking notes, studying for tests, and even things like how to work the cow in commons. The subject matter of some of the speeches was indeed adult, but my son managed ok. My youngest will be taking classes earlier, and hopefully will begin with some programming classes, not speech or comp. The next semester he took the basic how-to-use-your-computer class (another one I didn't want to teach) and composition. Then he took precalc and chemistry once he had his study skills in place. I think we made the right decision for this student. Doing CC classes rather than AP classes has given him an opportunity to learn how to learn in a classroom while we were still available to help. It was much easier to give him that help than our oldest, who went from public high school to plumbing to college. We've needed to help him quite a bit, too, and it has been more difficult doing it in advance before we sent him, and then over the phone and through email.

 

-Nan

[Miss Marple]

So far we have encountered no "cons" with concurrent enrollment. However, in our area, there is a difference between university courses and community college courses. When the student transfers, some of the CC colleges don't transfer. Credit will transfer (as an elective), but the course content is sometimes not equivalent - so be aware of that.

 

The "pros" for us:

1. My son was able to transfer 35 credit hours at 4.0 GPA. This gives a nice cushion for the grades he may receive with his harder (upper level) courses.

 

2. These credits were received "tuition free". A nice bonus considering the costs of college.

 

3. My son was able to get to know his professors while still in high school which gave him those necessary "letters of recommendation" from a teacher. These were used for scholarship applications as well as application for special programs (i.e., Honors college) at university.

 

4. Taking just 2 or 3 courses per semester was very do-able and allowed him to get a handle on how to study, be responsible for his time, interacting with other students/teachers. This meant that he knew what to expect when he moved to the university full-time.

 

5. It allowed him to receive better teaching than I could have given (or supervised) in certain course areas.

[Brenda in MA]

also, my son was just itching to "get out of the house" on a regular basis. He also worked harder for the cc teacher than he was willing to do at home.

 

My next son has a completely different personality, so AP might be a better route for him. So I do think that despite the varous pros & cons, one really has to look at how the child learns and what motivates him/her.

 

One other advantage of the CC is that your child can take subjects like a foreign language and have some one to talk to. Also, the cc has lab facilities for science classes. We have a lot of science equipment and did a lot of labs at home, but my son really enjoyed the Chem lab at the cc with "real" equipment.

 

There were a few "edgier" issues discussed in ds's Eng 101, but at 17 yo, I felt it was OK for him to be exposed to a bit of that. He's going to have to face it sooner or later, and I was glad he was at home when this first came up so we could discuss the issues with him. If I were signing up a younger dc, I would definitely make sure to carefully choose the courses they take.

 

YMMV,

Brenda

[Nan in Mass]

Yes, it was rather nice having them come up when we could discuss them. He came home with some wild stories from speech class. Community college students have often taken a circuitous route to college or have had to defend themselves, which made for some interesting presentations.

[Kareni]

We began by choosing classes that were didn't require lots of writing (speech and drawing), during which my son learned how to sign up for classes, buying books, checking class email, syllabi, office hours, calculating a grade, taking notes, studying for tests, and even things like how to work the cow in commons.

 

 

I have to confess that I have no idea what you're getting at here, Nan. But it certainly sounds intriguing!

 

Regards,

Kareni

[Nan in Mass]

LOL - Sorry - not very intriguing unless you are an engineer, probably. We always called the milk machines in the dining commons "cows". You've probably seen them, but in case you haven't, they consist of a stand in which a plastic bag of milk fits. There is a rubber tube sticking out of the bottom of the bag that goes through a hole with a mechanism that pinches it off. There is a longish bar that sticks out of the mechanism with a weight on the end heavy enough to keep the tube pinched off. You lift the bar to unpinch the tube to let the milk out. The whole thing is quite suggestive of an udder, hence the "cow". I find the design beautiful in its simplicity, but it isn't immediately obvious what it is if you haven't run across milk in a bag before, or that you put your cup under the tube and lift the big shiny fist to make it work. : )

-Nan

[Gwen in VA]

The timing of this thread is funny --

 

My older kids did (not counting ONE cc class) exclusively AP and classes at W&M

 

Well, my third is a different child. Dh and I just decided that ds2 will have more CC classes than the others did. It helps that there is a new campus built only 15 minutes from our house. We are planning on him taking English (4-6 semesters), drafting (1-2 semesters), and physics (2 semesters) at the CC over the next three years.

 

He will most likely do one AP next year, but the three of us are still trying to work out that detail.

 

I am glad to hear that so many of you have used the CC system successfully. Hopefully I will be a happy CC poster in a year or two!

[Jane in NC]

Although I don't have much to add to what has already been noted, I do want to comment on one advantage the CC has had over home study for my son: science labs. Granted, our CC has a relatively new science building with terrific chemistry and biotech facilities. I knew that there was no way that we could begin to duplicate their chem labs at home, so my son took General Chemistry I at the CC last fall. This semester he is taking a Microbiology course (prerequisite fulfilled by AP Bio--a course done at home in 10th). The microscopy work in this course has been beyond my son's wildest dreams (he loves bacteria). Lab safety is a huge issue in a course like Micro. Thinking back on the fecal coliform cultures we've grown in my son's bathroom (testing the local waters for the stuff), I am glad that he has found other facilities for his experiments. :D

 

One suggestion that I have to make whether you decide to go AP or CC or not: have your student take an online course. One of my son's current courses at the CC is a "hybrid". The class meets one day a week and the rest of the work is online. In both chemistry and micro, my son has had a number of tests to take that were on Blackboard software. Much of his chemistry homework was done online via Chem Skill Builder. Students need to become accustomed to working on and with the Internet.

 

Jane

[Halftime Hope]

Students need to become accustomed to working on and with the Internet.

 

I would echo this. My ds' freshman comp class had a considerable amount of the homework done collaboratively on the class blog and with assignments that required some multimedia skills. (They also had to turn in four traditional papers.) His math and physics classes both use online homework systems that are fraught with pitfalls and programming errors, but he has no choice but to submit homework to be graded in that manner. He'd have a much rougher time of it if he weren't already quite computer saavy.

[Jane in NC]

I would echo this. My ds' freshman comp class had a considerable amount of the homework done collaboratively on the class blog and with assignments that required some multimedia skills. (They also had to turn in four traditional papers.) His math and physics classes both use online homework systems that are fraught with pitfalls and programming errors, but he has no choice but to submit homework to be graded in that manner. He'd have a much rougher time of it if he weren't already quite computer saavy.

 

It seems that students have to spend time initially learning how to enter their answers into the science homework software. I could see these being a major source of frustration for some students, in particular those who are not detail oriented or computer savvy as Valerie mentions.

[K-FL]

I'll add my 2 cents. :)

 

We did cc because:

 

 

1. Free dual enrollment
   
2. Our cc is 1/2 the size of our hs so there is much more personal attention from the profs than even at our hs.
   
3. Since it is a community college, there are students older than me there along with the just-graduated ones. Has/is giving my girls a broader look at life issues than just the 18-22yo view. Plus these students are mainly working & schooling--no time for lounging around. They come to class & go on their way.
   
4. FL state universities must take the credits & most in-state privates do. Plus it does show that this small-town, homeschooled kid can keep up with college work and is use to doing the group projects they are so fond of it seems. The letters of recommendation are a big plus too.
   
5. While the topics are rather dark in some classes (Eng. 2 being a currently on the list for dd#2), as others said, we're here to talk it though. Dd said the whole class was complaining that there must not be any uplifting or male writers out there to study since the were reading so much depressing writing and all by females.
   

 

 

Re: AP

I spoke w/my niece last week who took 3 AP's. She votes for dual enrollment (she'd taken Comp 101 at the cc & they have to pay for them in AL) since the AP test was $80 & she didn't get a high enough score on one to get the credit. The cc would have been a sure credit.

[Kareni]

Nan,

 

Thanks for the description of the Commons cow; now that I've seen your description, I do think I have seen those milk dispensers.

 

I encounter new and different things all over the place. I've stood in a few public restrooms trying to figure out how to get soap, water and paper towels to dispense. Life is full of exciting challenges!

 

Regards,

Karen

[LoriM]

We chose cc because of two pros that I haven't seen mentioned yet:

 

1. FREE (Running Start dual enrollment in WA)

 

2. Actual college classroom experience while they are still at home under our guidance.

 

In our case, because of our very popular and very successful dual enrollment program, all cc classes transferred and were given weight equal to AP (at least according to admissions info provided by the universities here in WA).

 

:iagree: Pretty much our reasons, plus a transfer agreement with the state schools. My daughter graduates in December at age 20 as a result of her associate's degree at age 18.