Your ideal Logic sequence & curricula?

[profmom]

I've been reading up on Logic curricula, including searching the boards, but I didn't see this exact question. What do you consider the ideal Logic sequence? TWTM, Memoria Press & LCC, and some classical sites all have different recommendations for curricula, sequence, & ages.

 

Also, how do the CAP products compare &/or replace the other options: Fallacy Detective, Thinking Toolbox, Introductory & Intermediate Logic, Traditional Logic?

 

Please share your recommendations for Logic curricula & sequence (including grades for each). :bigear:

 

Thanks!

[FloridaLisa]

Since I'm mucking my way through this right now, I'll paste a post I saved from Tina in Ouray in which she outlined her sequence:

 

Here's how I've penciled in these courses on our how we may schedule:

4th - Aesop

5th - Narrative

6th - Maxim

7th Traditional Logic I and II; Chreia

8th - Material Logic; Refutation and Confirmation, Commonplace

 

The reality is that our schedule is never quite so neat and tidy. If my child isn't ready for TLI in7th grade, I don't push it. And TLII often spills over into 8th grade. I generally start teaching Refutation/Confirmation at the same time that my students are finishing TLII. The reason I do this is that I use the pattern for these exercises as the basis or outline for the Case Studies that

begin in Chapter 6 of TLII.

 

And another post:

 

I typically use Traditional Logic Books I and II with my kids when they are in 7th grade. (One of my sons waited until 9th grade.) This has worked well for us, but these same kids have also been ready at this age for Algebra I. I think that there is a correlation between algebra and formal logic

readiness. If your daughter does not do well with the more abstract nature/concepts of algebra, then you might want to wait until 8th or even 9th grade to complete formal logic. There is no point in rushing things. Rather than pushing a student to do formal logic before they are ready, I'd suggest simply working on improving their math and grammar skills during this time. I know most people teach math and grammar anyway; what I'm trying to say is that you shouldn't feel the need to do some sort of pre-logic or easier logic materials if they aren't ready for Traditional Logic in 7th grade. Your time is better spent in mastering other basic skills. Studying Latin grammar is much better preparation for formal logic than doing logic puzzles.

 

My dc started with Intro to Logic by Nance/Wilson. I'm researching how best to start with the TL set and then move on from there. And Tina, if you see this, you are still much quoted here! I miss the insight from you and LaJuana and several others from the old board.

 

Lisa

 

 

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[LoriM]

I am going to be teaching TL 1 and 2 to our 7th/8th grade classes here in our school next year. :)

 

My own dds used Intro and Intermediate Logic.

[Hoggirl]

I am going to be teaching TL 1 and 2 to our 7th/8th grade classes here in our school next year. :)

 

My own dds used Intro and Intermediate Logic.

 

 

I get SO confused on this, but I am so glad this was posted. I *thought* that Traditional Logic I & II (from Memoria Press) was more "wordy" logic and Intro/Intermediate Logic (by Nance) was more "mathy" logic. Is this wrong? I thought one could do BOTH of these without much overlap? Help! :confused:

[ciyates]

I am so glad someone else asked this questions. :lol:

[Hoggirl]

wordy v. mathy? or not?

[MamaT]

My two older boys did fine with Introductory and Intermediate Logic. My third son has been struggling through it this year and has retained nothing! He is a very different type of learner than his brothers, so next year we are starting over with Traditional Logic 1 and 2.

 

Just my experience.

[Vida Winter]

I'm planning on Traditional Logic 1& 2 with DVD's, followed by doing something with Socratic Logic (Kreeft). But since I haven't started, I can't offer a review yet.

[Murphy101]

I get SO confused on this, but I am so glad this was posted. I *thought* that Traditional Logic I & II (from Memoria Press) was more "wordy" logic and Intro/Intermediate Logic (by Nance) was more "mathy" logic. Is this wrong? I thought one could do BOTH of these without much overlap? Help! :confused:

 

I second or third this question.

 

I have MP's trad logic this year for my 8th grader. And he's getting some or it slowly. 2 weeks per chapter. And he won't have alg 1 until 9th.

 

I think it'll be easier for my 2nd son when he does 8th grade next year.

 

But 3rd son might be more like 1st son and need a different approach or to wait a bit.

[dragons in the flower bed]

I second or third this question.

 

 

Um, okay, I have no experience other than reading (not working through) the first volumes of these books, but I believe you're right. Nance's logic is great for future computer programmers while Cothran's is best for future ministers. Both are formal logic, whereas CAP's and Hawthornes' teaches informal.

Edited April 4, 2009 by dragons in the flower bed
those apostrophes, man, i'm tellin' ya

[lllll]

..

[Mommyfaithe]

My plan was not as rigorous or as ambitious as Tina's as we are basically illogical here...<GRIN>

Anyway, I have used this sequence 3 times and have been happy with our results so far...We will be adding Material Logic to ds' list

 

5th grade: mindbenders, Logic Anyone? and Orbitting w/ Logic

6th Fallacy Detective and more logic type puzzles

7th Thinking Toolbox and more logic type puzz;es

8th The Art of Argument

9th Traditional Logic (we stopped here for older 2 dd's and ds.) Continued into 10th with geometry and proofs...lots of Rhetoric (persuasive essays, speeches etc. for the rest of High School.

 

10th: (for now until i find a better plan :D) Material Logic maybe followed by Kreeft Socratic Logic)

 

11th Rhetoric (Memoria Press, debate, lots of persuasive essays and speeches.)

 

HTH,

Faithe

[Hoggirl]

Yes, that is correct. IL books are brief, to the point, and condensed. TL books are wordy ... overflowing with words. If your dc do better with 'words', I'd start with TL. If their brains freeze when they see a page full of words and definitions and new information, I'd start with IL. Our dc did both series and that seemed to work very well for them.

 

I think it might work well if you let your dc choose which to do first, based on what they are more comfortable with after examining both books. I say that because I find that if our dc have a say in the selection process, they seem to do much better - vs, say, my handing them the book and saying 'Do this'. Not that I don't ever do that, of course. ;)

 

It also helps to let the dc go at their own pace through logic books. Logic is something that just seems to come at them from out of nowhere, because it's so underemphasized up until the book is stuck under their noses way up in junior high or high school ages. Give them plenty of time to get 'comfortable' with the book/subject (obviously, the amount of time may vary with the child), before moving on to the next book.

 

Also, there is Christian content in both sets of books, for those wishing to avoid such.

 

HTH,

Kathy

 

I had planned to start with TL from Memoria Press, but I am wondering if this is more of a comfort thing for *me*. My ds is quite accelerated in math and will be finishing up Chalkdust Geometry this year. He really had no "issue" with proofs. So, do you think he might do better with the Intro course? (mathy one). I don't see how I can let him choose. I don't want to buy them both at once since we make our home schooling decision one year at a time. He has done Fallacy Detective and is currently doing Art of Argument. We will finish up the last Dandylion book this year (Orbiting with Logic, maybe?) also.

 

Thanks for sharing your insights.

[lllll]

..

[mcconnellboys]

I would agree that the IL series and the TL series cover slightly different materials. I believe someone (maybe even Mr. Cothran) outlined this on these boards at some time in the past, so you might try a search to find that info.

 

My older son had no difficulty whatsoever with IL. He was also able to move through TL I without difficulty, but did get stuck about mid-way through TL II, and the CD's didn't help to overcome his difficulty, either.

 

For my younger son, I plan on covering informal logic first, next year in sixth grade. We will do Thinking Toolbox and then Fallacy Detective. Others on these boards have assured me that we can cover each one of these in a semester. Then, for seventh grade, he will do IL, followed by Intermediate Logic in eighth. I will save Traditional Logic for high school, as I believe it will be simpler for someone who is a little older.

[LatinTea]

Thinking about ordering these and wondering if the DVDs are useful. I can say, without any hesitation, that I have no background in logic so I might need all the help I get. :D

 

thanks,

Margo

[angela in ohio]

We did TT and FD last year (6th grade,) and we are working through IL this year (7th) and plan to do Inter. over the summer. I have been mulling over this article at Memoria Press, though, and thinking over how I might change the sequence for future dc. What do you all think?

 

I haven't decided what to do for next year. I have been reading old posts here and articles at Memoria Press and the Bluedorns site, trying to figure it out.

[AuntPol]

bumping up as I'm trying to figure out our sequence.

[Storm Bay]

Before high school:

Thinking Toolbox, Fallacy Detective, Philosophy for Kids (order not so important for us here)

 

High School:

Traditional Logic I (dd is doing this now) with proofy Geometry

Traditional Logic II

Material Logic

Not sure about all the rest of it yet, as I have Sophie's Choice (more philosophy than logic, but I'm putting these in the same basic school category) and a couple of other books I'd like dd to get through in hs.

[ValRN]

My 15y/o (9th grade) ds is currently taking Introductory & Intermediate Logic with Oxford Tutorials. I didn't teach any other logic (had Fallacy Detective, but never used it for him) I don't know about anyone else, but I've looked at the material and it can get confusing. Myson has to really think about what he is doing and sometimes reread the lessons before he's able to complete the exercises. If you are going to start with this series, I would recommend waiting until the high school years. If you start with something else, then you may be able to start earlier than 9th grade.