Starting Point users, I have a ?

[dkholland]

I really like the looks of this program and want to use it for my ds who will be in 9th grade this fall. He is a super worker andfrom looking at the program, I think I want to add to it. I was planning on doing SL level 200 just because that is what would come next for him (we are SL'ers.) I thought we could just do the history portion and then on the weeks in SP when we are not doing Lit, we would do SL lit. Does that make sense??

 

My other idea, is to forget SL and combine SP with Trail Guide to World Geo. because my son is lacking in his geography!

 

Have you combined SP with any other program?? Is SP enough for 9th grade for teh credits it suggests?

 

My son needs quite a bit of work...he is a quick worker and needs the challenge of a good program.

 

I have read some on these boards about SP but have not found any advice for this question.

Thanks!:tongue_smilie:

[dkholland]

bump

[Miss Marple]

Hmmm...I hesitated to answer before because I've never combined them, but here are some thoughts.

 

IMO, Starting Points can be made as easy or rigorous as you want. Some of the readings are more difficult than others (Mere Christianity, Assumptions) and some of the literature he will see again in college. So the ability to dissect these books will vary with the capability of each student. I expect my sons to read Mere Christianity and Frankenstein again at some point and I assume they will get to know the works on another level.

 

If your son is already competent in writing, then the writing component could be bumped up by requiring research papers rather than essays.

 

Are you planning to continue with Quine's World Views of the Western World? If so, I would not recommend combining with SL 200 because that core deals with church history which will also be dealt with in WVWW. But if Starting Points will be the only course you use, you could combine it with SL 200 - your son will be doing a LOT of reading but if he can handle it I don't see that there would be a problem.

 

As far as credits go, I don't use Quine's recommendations. I think the history credit is way too generous. I could probably go with the credit for Bible and a credit for literature (if one adds to the literature component by bringing in other literature analysis components). SP looks at literature through a very narrow lens. I do add in other literature analysis components when I teach SP because I want the student to get a feel for the whole work, not just the worldview aspect.

 

I think you could add a geography program easily to SP. It really has no geography component.

 

Don't be afraid to tweak a program to suit your needs and your student's abilities. I've taught SP several times now and have never "done it by the book" completely. But the kids have all come away with a great worldview appreciation and have been challenged in their beliefs. And that's pretty much my goal for the class.

[dkholland]

Thank you for your advice and I think I am going to take it. I am probably going to add some of the Lit selections from Sl 200 and a geography program also. Plus I will add in other lit components as you suggest.

 

Its so good to hear from someone who has used the programs and can comment on what is lacking. I need to remember to tweek a program to fit our needs....you'd think I would be better at it after h'schooling for 12 yrs!!

 

thanks!

[MommyThrice]

I agree that SP is lacking in history. We continued with our usual history readings and added some lit. as well.

 

The readings are great, but much of the work is fill-in-the-blank workbook questions, which we skipped after the first couple of books and worked through the content orally. Even orally, we skipped quite a bit. For example, the student is asked to answer questions based on what they have learned after each chapter. So, he cannot go back after reading 3-4 chapters in bed at night because he will need to know what he learned in chapter 1, then what was revealed in chapter 2, etc... I found it a waste of time. Discussion was key for us.

 

I did find it helpful to have him read through the questions BEFORE he read the book, so he would know what to look for.

 

We also skipped much of the writing assignment steps. My ds already knew how to write a 3 or 5 paragraph essay, so I just let him go ahead and write them.

[LeslieinCA]

I do add in other literature analysis components when I teach SP because I want the student to get a feel for the whole work, not just the worldview aspect.

 

Hi Cynthia,

I have been reading all your posts on this curricula and have found it most helpful. Thank you for all your insights. We are considering beginning it with our 9th grader.

 

My questions are:

1. What do you add to SP to get that feel for the whole work?

2. I am prayfully considering facilitating a group discussion, co-op type thing with a handful of 13 yr olds. If I have never used this program before, is this too much to chew?

3. Also I am not a 'fill in the blank' kind of home educator. I much prefer dialog and written narrations, etc. Is it possible to use the syllabus in such a way to make it more of a 'spring board'? I am not sure I am making sense.

4. I am under the impression the program is not all that user friendly and a bit confusing for the student to use on their own. What are your thoughts?

5. On the website they have samples of the syllabus. Is that the student consumable? Or is that the teachers book? I am thinking there is no teacher book as that has been another complaint I have read of.

6. What are any other weaknesses, as you see it?

 

Thanks so much,

:)Leslie

[Miss Marple]

Hi Leslie,

I'll try to answer your questions here:

 

My questions are:

1. What do you add to SP to get that feel for the whole work? I don't think one needs to add anything except perhaps to the history portion. I have substituted materials in order to teach it to specific age groups (i.e., we omitted Mere Christianity and used The Case for Christ instead because I was dealing with younger kids who, with a few exceptions, could not have gotten through Mere Christianity.

 

2. I am prayfully considering facilitating a group discussion, co-op type thing with a handful of 13 yr olds. If I have never used this program before, is this too much to chew? I don't think so. I simply worked through it before I taught it to the kids. I usually stayed a few weeks ahead. I also pulled in additional information pertinent to the topics we were covering so that it wasn't just a "go through the workbook" type of discussion. If I could find some appropriate videos, we used those also. That seemed to make it a bit more fun.

 

3. Also I am not a 'fill in the blank' kind of home educator. I much prefer dialog and written narrations, etc. Is it possible to use the syllabus in such a way to make it more of a 'spring board'? I am not sure I am making sense. Yes, see the answer above.

 

4. I am under the impression the program is not all that user friendly and a bit confusing for the student to use on their own. What are your thoughts? None of my kids had problems, but I think it might be a bit daunting for those kids who are used to having a right/wrong answer. The idea is to get the students thinking about ideas not so much about getting the "right" answer down in the workbook.

 

5. On the website they have samples of the syllabus. Is that the student consumable? Or is that the teachers book? I am thinking there is no teacher book as that has been another complaint I have read of. I don't know of any teacher book, so I would assume it is the student workbook. I know a lot of moms would like to have an "answer key", but that approach just wouldn't work with this type of program. We want the kids to THINK, not just write down what they think is the right answer. We want them to disagree even and then try to support their arguments. I think this is a bit scary for some parents, but I've found it to be highly beneficial in the long run. The student is developing his belief system and as such will embrace it more fully than if he just fills in the blanks with what his family believes.

 

6. What are any other weaknesses, as you see it? I don't see any real weakness with the program, but I tweak it for my specific needs at this point. I think the history is weak because it relies only on one work and I don't think it worthy of a full credit. In fact, I opt out of the history section altogether at this point because we will do US history in depth later. I also added in more "traditional" literature analysis because SP is really only looking at literature through a "worldview lens". I wanted to round it out a bit.

 

Really, I find it to be an excellent "starting point" for worldviews study as well as literature study (with supplementation). But I have to say that I seldom do a program as written. I've very comfortable tweaking things to fit my needs. I hope this helps some. Let me know if you have other questions.

[LeslieinCA]

Cynthia,

Thanks sooooo much for your detailed answers.

[quote name=

 

2. I am prayerfully considering facilitating a group discussion, co-op type thing with a handful of 13 yo. If I have never used this program before, is this too much to chew? I don't think so. I simply worked through it before I taught it to the kids. I usually stayed a few weeks ahead. I also pulled in additional information pertinent to the topics we were covering so that it wasn't just a "go through the workbook" type of discussion. If I could find some appropriate videos, we used those also. That seemed to make it a bit more fun.

Would you mind making some suggestions you found beneficial? Since you have taught this extensively, I would respect your input. I don't need to reinvent the wheel if you already know of things that work and don't mind 'sharing'.

 

4. I am under the impression the program is not all that user friendly and a bit confusing for the student to use on their own. What are your thoughts? None of my kids had problems, but I think it might be a bit daunting for those kids who are used to having a right/wrong answer. The idea is to get the students thinking about ideas not so much about getting the "right" answer down in the workbook.

This is what I love about the possibilities of this program...I want my children to THINK...I don't want to tell them what to think, but to chew on an idea and compare it to what God has to say about that topic and then develop their own 'right' conclusions...I am not concerned with getting the 'right' answer written in a book.

 

We want the kids to THINK, not just write down what they think is the right answer. We want them to disagree even and then try to support their arguments. I think this is a bit scary for some parents, but I've found it to be highly beneficial in the long run. The student is developing his belief system and as such will embrace it more fully than if he just fills in the blanks with what his family believes.

a hearty "amen" to that! That there is no answer key is not scary to me at all.

 

I also added in more "traditional" literature analysis because SP is really only looking at literature through a "worldview lens". I wanted to round it out a bit.

This is what I would specifically like to know about. What do you use to "round it out". I too, would love to look at, say Frankestein not only from a worldview standpoint but for its literary value. Do you have specific resources you have found that work well?

 

Really, I find it to be an excellent "starting point" for worldviews study as well as literature study (with supplementation). But I have to say that I seldom do a program as written. I've very comfortable tweaking things to fit my needs. I hope this helps some. Let me know if you have other questions.

 

You have been most helpful. I am very comfy tweaking things as well. My bit of anxiety comes in the form of possibly 'leading' other people's children. I love the idea of having a discussion forum for my dd so I am highly motivated, but a bit nervous at the same time.

 

Any specific suggestions you may offer from your vast experience is most gratefully appreciated. Even down to how much time you teach each class...once per week? 2 hours? Anything you have found to work and want to pass along, I am all ears! Like I said, "I don't need to reinvent the wheel". :D

 

:)Leslie

[LeslieinCA]

bump

[Miss Marple]

Each time I have taught it we've done it a bit differently. One year our class met 1.5 hours per week. Another time we met just 1 hour. Because I've done this in a co-op setting, the time was controlled by how the co-op was set up. I think 1-2 hours per week would be sufficient for discussion depending on the ages of the students. Younger students get distracted earlier than older students. We often had a movie night - we watched Narnia, Frankenstein (a version that was really off from the book), The Case for Christ, etc. This helped keep the class fun. Oh, I added in the dvd series Christianity vs. Islam by Dr. Timothy George (see https://www.visionvideo.com/detail.taf?_function=detail&a_product_id=31281).

 

Other than that, I just sorta wing it - if I find a news article that is relevant, I send it out by e-mail and we discuss it the next time we meet. The students then see the relevance of Worldview study in their life - and that's one of my goals.