Fretting with Math--please help!

[Guest aquiverfull]

Ok, a little background. My 10 year old dd (currently considered 4th gr) has been doing Horizons math since book2, before that we did BJU K math and then tried Miquon. We are currently on Book 4A. Last year we considered switching from Horizons, but really didn't know where else to go. We decided to stay with Horizons and slow it down, but now I wish we hadn't. It was going ok, but mainly because it's just been review up until a week or two ago, and once again we are hitting the brick wall. Our problems with Horizons are the incremental approach and the pace of the program. My dd has often had emotional meltdowns when doing math and says that they are constantly teaching her something new when she hasn't really learned previous things taught.

 

Math is not my strong point and I'm often unsure of myself when trying to teach her. I feel that the TMs in Horizons are pretty useless. We have been doing 3 digit multiplication and long division. I took out the whiteboard the other day to better help her understand. We went over several long division problems, asking her what I should do next, etc. Then I had her work some on the board on her own. She can get the correct answer, but when I asked her if she understood she told me, "No". Perhaps she means that she knows the steps for doing the problems but does not understand the "whys".

 

I considered switching to MUS. We have the sample dvd and watched it together. However, we don't want to spend an entire year doing only multiplication, etc. Plus I really don't know where she would go into MUS. She knows how to do 3 digit multiplication, but I'm not totally sure she really grasps it. She can do long division, but again, does she really understand it?

 

So then I thought of switching to Teaching Textbooks. We did some of the samples online together. She likes it, she made the comment that it was easy. As far as the placement test, she got pretty much all of them correct on TT5 and placed a little over the amount correct (as per what they suggest) to do TT6. After hearing all of the negative reviews of TT on here, I'm not sure if we should do that.

 

I've thought about Rightstart, not sure how much she would enjoy the games. She's a just the facts, let's get over with school type of girl..:glare:

However, RS might give her the true understanding of concepts that she is lacking. I've wondered if it was too late to do something like rightstart. It seems to me that it is a much different approach to what we have been doing. But, she has worked out on her own that 8+6 is the same as saying 10+4. As far as how I was taught in public school that is confusing to me, but it makes perfect sense to her. So she may do well with something like RS or singapore. I've heard a little about Math mammoth. I think someone mentioned it was similar to singapore, so maybe that could be another option.

 

I just feel like we are constantly behind in Horizons. We've slowed it way down, there is absolutely no way we could finish out year 4 before our summer break. I just don't know where to go from here.

 

I'm open to any and all advice and suggestions, different programs, etc... thanks!!

Edited March 29, 2009 by aquiverfull

[3browneyedboys4me]

After 2nd grade, we switched to Saxon 5/4. My personal opinion about Horizons is that is great for K, 1, and 2. It gives a very good foundation. But, it does cover things quickly. For instance, I can't even compare Saxon 2 with Horizons 2. My son is way beyond the level 2 Saxon. However, I think Saxon is too repetitive in the younger years. My boys needed to be challenged more. My son is in his first year of Saxon. It's been a big adjustment b/c the math is just different. However, we've stuck with it and he's learned to adjust his thinking to a more analytical type of math. He's not doing multiplication in the hundreds yet, but he is doing 'higher level' math concepts.

 

My plan is Horizons k,1,and 2, and Saxon for the rest. :001_smile:

 

HTH!

Bethany

[Guest aquiverfull]

Thank you Bethany. I've looked at Saxon briefly but I also heard it's worse than Horizons about the spiraling, so I'm not sure it would work for us. I really appreciate you taking the time to answer me! :)

[AngieW in Texas]

Have you looked at Singapore? It's a mastery program, so you spend a while on each topic before you move on to another. You would need to do the placement test, because it has a different scope and sequence from other programs. Understand that most people end up backing up at least 1/2 year and often a full year. After 6B, a strong math student can move straight into Algebra I. A weaker math student should probably do at least one semester of pre-algebra before moving on to Algebra.

[littlefurfamily]

I'll be watching this poast as we are in the same place exactly.

[littlefurfamily]

I meant post..... but I should go check on my Sunday roast! tee hee

[Storm Bay]

We love Singapore, as another poster mentioned. However, if math is not your strong point, you'd want to look at it first. It's different, and it seems that it tends to attract mathy folks (but not necessarily always).

 

We didn't care for Saxon, although my eldest did it for three grades. Good mental math exercises, but I wasn't impressed with the word problems. Plus, there was too much repetition for us, especially since we school year round. We were skipping chapters and chapters at the beginning of each text.

 

MUS is great in many ways. We use this with Singapore. You don't do only multiplication in Delta--there is some review, you learn to do area, review some geometry, etc. But you aren't introduced to fractions yet. You'd have to do a placement test to determine where you are. They've got a new and improved version, but I haven't seen it. I have to say that while the word problems aren't nearly as good as those in Singapore Math, it's often a helpful program for those who either struggle with math or who are very visual learners.

 

Our only experience with TT is with Algebra 1. Very easy. Dd thought it was too easy (she is mathy). There have been some very hot threads on this on the high school forum (if you follow the TT tag you'll see.) There are some real adherents to this program--but math is very much a hot topic ;)!

 

I bought and sold RightStart. It looked like a good program, but it was far too teacher-intensive for us.

 

No math program out there is going to be great for everyone. Some kids will do well with any math program, so you'll hear success stories for all of them. I like using two programs, and so this is what we've been doing for several years now. Just because many kids understand math in a program, doesn't mean it's good--it might be just because it's easy and it might be subpar. I've never used Horizons, so cannot comment on it at all.

[Lovedtodeath]

In your situation I would go with BJU or TT. BJU gets the best reviews, and is not a big stretch from what you are used to. Abeka is similar to Horizons and has excellent teacher's manuals, but they are spiral. BJU is Mastery with some review in the TM from what I understand.

[calandalsmom]

We hit that wall in Singapore 4B and switched to TT. I love it. My kids do not argue about math anymore. I think its sufficient. I beieve the Holzmanns at SL when they say its the best they have found at the upper levels. I believe it may not be the best for a child and parent who are adept at and love mathmatics but for a humanities loving college bound homeshcooler I do not think there is anything wrong with TT.

[Carmen_and_Company]

How about Chalk Dust's Basic Math done over two years? It'll cover all your dd needs before algebra. Down the road, if you find your dd is not ready for algebra in 6th grade, you can complete Chalk Dust pre-algebra. Chalk Dust provides instruction via DVD. Chalkdust also produces elementary math programs for grades 3, 4 & 5. The Basic College Math text covers through 6th grade mathematics.

 

Some other DVD programs you may wish to look into:

Systematic Mathematics http://www.systemath.com/

Math-U-See http://www.mathusee.com/

Lial's Basic College Math & DvT (digital video tutor)

[url=http://www.pearsonhighered.com/educator/academic/product/0,3110,0321292804,00.html][/url]http://www.pearsonhighered.com/educator/academic/product/0,3110,0321292804,00.html

[Lil Mama Bird]

I will also be watching this thread, we're in Horizons 2 now.

We'll probably be suppl. with Singapore through the summer and next year to round out the program.

Another idea is the "Key to..." series. I was stuck teaching a certain fraction concept and I found the "Key to.." books that got great reviews: http://www.keypress.com/x6469.xml

My dd did the sample online and it helped her see it in a different light. We haven't used these yet, but will possibly use these as a suppl. too.

Krys

Edited March 30, 2009 by Lil Mama Bird

[LisaKinVA]

We've just moved my children all into Chalkdust. I can't pry my 5yo away from the computer... and frankly, he's really not quite ready for level 3. I never considered myself much of a curriculum hopper, but I jumped out of Saxon 1 very fast (my son was in tears daily, hated math). We moved into Singapore, but after a while, I was struggling with teaching him with it. We switched to K12 Sadlier-Oxford, and it has been pretty good overall -- however, we will be leaving K12 at Middle School, and I had planned to go with Chalk Dust at that point. So, even though we haven't left K12 competely yet, we purchased the Basic Math to give me some extra teaching support.

 

Aleks has also been a wonderful addition to the mix. I've used it at different points in time for the past few years -- and just signed up all 3 of my school age children to play with it (the youngest really just does the quick tables).

 

I'm keeping my fingers crossed -- but the Chalkdust instructor explains things so well my 5yo even "gets" it.

 

Lisa

[lapsetmom]

For a completely individualized program, Math on the Level is great. You can spend as much or little time on a topic as you want or need. I often feel it needs some supplemental work, but it has given me so much freedom in our math program. I can suit the math to our needs as I want. It is also good for teaching multi-age or unit studies as well. It is a completely different way of teaching math, but it might just be what your daughter needs. I'm able to introduce more advanced concepts as my children are able to grasp them while review other concepts that each particular child struggles with. It is also one complete program for all of my children that covers Kindergarten up to pre-algebra.

[Misty]

About the games in RS... They aren't part of the main lesson... They are used as a supplement mostly, scheduled in at the end of the lessons (sometimes), so you can skip them if you want. The manipulatives are used quite a lot though.

[5ray2006]

I think you should try TT and not worry about the negative reviews. Your dd is 10, therefore she can do the work independently. I've read plenty of positive reviews about TT and will some day use it with my oldest when he's a little older -using it one or two grade levels ahead if needed. I think any math program that can TEACH your child math is a great program, especially since you said your dd has hit a brick wall on certain concepts. I think of TT as a personal math tutor. Once your dd is confident in math again-you can stop TT and continue Horizons or move onto something else. I know that Horizons is advanced, so I think going with TT6 would be a good idea and your daughter can still work through her Horizons workbooks a few days out of the week. Just my humle opinion. ;)

[Guest aquiverfull]

Thank you all for the responses. To respond to some of the things mentioned:

 

Angie, I briefly looked at Singapore last year when we thought about switching. We printed out the placement test from SL then. At that time it looked confusing to me and I was scared that I might not be able to teach it. It is very different from the way I was taught math.

 

Karin, I have seen those very hot topics about TT. ;) It has made me second guess the choice. However, it really might be good for my dd at this point, because it could give her the confidence that she needs to feel like she's good in math. Thank you also for the information about MUS. I thought we'd just be doing multiplication all year long and I feel that would get boring. We really did enjoy watching Mr. Demme on the samples.

 

Carmen (Lovedtodeath), I have been thinking about BJU. We did BJU K, I remember why we switched to something else back then. I think it was because we had heard the same things about it not being challenging enough and how much more challenging Horizons was. Equating to Horizons had to be better...lol. I really should stop listening to everything I read on these different boards..lol.

 

Carmen and Co. thanks for metioning CD. I hadn't realized that they have lower grades. I thought they were only for highschool. I'll look into it. :)

[Guest aquiverfull]

Calandalsmom and 5ray2006, thank you for sharing your opinions on TTs. I haven't completely ruled it out yet. :)

 

LisaK, thanks for sharing your experiences with CD. It's encouraging to hear. As I mentioned to Carmen, I'll look over CD.

 

Lapsetmom, I also briefly looked at Math on the Level and it looked good. However, I also saw the posts on how it was a little hard to come up with the 5 problems for the child to do. I'm a little scared by that, not sure I could do those.

 

Misty, thanks for the info about the RS games. I hadn't realized that. I thought they were intergrated into the program and had to be done. My dd would probably actually enjoy the manipulatives. I'm still not sure about going that route though, since it seems so different. I just wonder if it would cause more confusion for her at this point. Yet, I also feel that we may need to back up and relearn the whys of math.

 

I really appreciate all your responses. You have been very helpful, and I'll keep checking back incase anyone has anything else to add. :)

[Guest aquiverfull]

If you don't build the foundation of real understanding you just continue to struggle. Go back and build the foundation and then I think you will find things start falling into place a lot more easily.

 

 

Thank you for these words of wisdom. :)

Also thanks for explaining how it could work for us in MUS.

[fishermom]

Not many Saxon fans here, I see, but just a word about it. We started with 5/4. At first I hated it, thought it too cut & dried and too much repetition. You're supposed to do every problem but we didn't (except when needed). All I can say is that we used it through highschool & once the kids got used to it they did very well. Tested extremely high on ACTs & my oldest son went on to be a math major.

 

Actually I was really happy that he essentially taught himself Calculus via Saxon Calculus, because his freshman professor in college was such a terrible teacher that my son ended up teaching himself & other students the book. I don't think he'd have been able to do this without having used Saxon.

 

However, I do get that it's not for everyone!

[Guest aquiverfull]

I also wanted to add that I have 3 more little ones, 4 yr old, 2 yr old, and a 4 mth old. Eventually they will all be doing school. I know all kids are different, but it would really be great to find something that I could also use with them. So something like MUS or rightstart that could be costly to start up could actually benefit us in the long run. However, my priorities at this point are really for my 4th grader. I have to find something now to help her. If it works out where we find something that works for her and can also work for my youngers in time that would be awesome, if not, that's ok too. :)

 

Fishermom, Thanks for your input about Saxon. I actually have an older math 7/6 around here that we never used. I had bought it years ago for my oldest dd. I wanted to homeschool her, but due to a split custody situation, I was unable. I'll look at it. I think it may be a little above my dd right now though. I'm still worried about the incremental approach in Saxon, will it be worse than what we have now with Horizons?

Edited March 30, 2009 by aquiverfull

[Lovedtodeath]

Professor B Math is another to consider. It is Mastery with Cds.

[Guest aquiverfull]

Thank you Carmen, I had never heard of Prof B. I'm off to check it out. :)