Christy B Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 (edited) Please be patient, I have a horrible head cold and I feel like Winnie the Pooh, all stuffed with fluff. I am contemplating high school and middle school. I can't decide if I want to use textbooks and a very traditional geography, world, American, civics sequence (I would match the middle schooler to the high schooler so that they could share topics and enjoy videos, etc, together). BUT . . . I really do like integrated world and American history, and geography. It just makes more sense to me. My own understanding of history is so fragmented. Here's the thing -- we've done a sweep through SOTW (though we slogged through Volume 3 and rushed through Volume 4). The girls have opportunities for group lit classes that would correspond with TOG Year 2 Units 3 and 4. I am contemplating using that as my springboard to organize my history and geography and literature studies at home. This is where I get confused -- is it my imagination, or does TOG not line up AT ALL with the SOTW volumes? I mean, that's okay, I just thought that all four year history cycles followed pretty much the same scope and sequence. Is there a chart out there somewhere that lines up the different programs and shows where they break down into years? That would be really helpful. Here's my other questions: Since we've done one sweep of history, would it be unreasonable to focus more closely and slowly on those eras that we either didn't enjoy very much or rushed through the first time around? Obviously, if I take a whole year to focus just on two units of TOG, there's no way we're getting through another whole four year rotation. But, starting with these particular units would mean that we would closely examine a fascinating time period that I feel we didn't give enough attention to the first time around (there's like, what, one little subchapter on the American Revolution in SOTW 3?) I know figuring out course titles and such could be tricky for the high schooler, but I think I could make it work. As long as one year we focus primarily on American history, I think I can call it American History in World Context or something like that. I don't have strict state regulations to follow, I just need your basic American, World, Civics, etc on her transcript. I wish I could not over-think these things, and just consider that group class a fun elective and move on with my life. :tongue_smilie: But no, I have to try to line everything up and coordinate it perfectly. Edited March 29, 2009 by Christy B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3browneyedboys4me Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 I have decided after contemplating several different history programs that it's best to use a variety. We use, and LOVE, TOG! That is a main source for history. I love the four year cycles and if I want to dive deeper into a subject, I have the freedom to do that. It references SOTW in the program where it's applicable. You'll find that under the additional History-core readings. However, I also love reading the Mystery of History with the kids. It's easy to find the time period, it's sequential, and I find a ton MORE info in that resource as well. But, as far as a core History program, I truly believe TOG is excellent. Anything you pull from to compliment that program is your choice. It will depend on what you, and your girls, want and fine interesting. I've used the program for all of this year. We are about to enter year 2. My whole family has loved it! We are also part of a co-op which makes it so fun! I can't say enough great things about this program. I've learned SO much. Like many ppl, my history was choppy w/many holes in it from public school. I never understood most history b/c it was introduced in such a confusing non-sequential way! I think TOG is the BEST program! I love how they tie everything together. I have to say that the geography isn't the best- in my opinion. Depending on what you are studying, you might want a more in-depth geography program. HTH!! Good Luck! Bethany Blizard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karenciavo Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 TOG Redesign has SOTW scheduled, no work for you to do unless the group is using Classic TOG. Here's how it lines up: TOG Year 1 and SOTW I are the same (creation to fall of Western Roman Empire) TOG Year 2 includes all of SOTW II and about 3/4 of SOTW III (fall of Western Roman Empire to 1800) TOG Year 3 includes the rest of SOTW III and a little less than 1/2 of SOTW IV (the 19th century) TOG Year 4 includes the rest of SOTW IV (the 20th-21st centuries) As far as high school goes, You are free to do whatever you like :001_smile:, but TOG has done all the work for you so you would be making more work for yourself as you already know. Does this group you're thinking of joining do TOG at 1/2 pace? How many years of high school does your daughter have left? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karen sn Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 No answers, but have you seen this? They have an awesome history study.... http://www.bfbooks.com/s.nl/sc.1/.f Sorry if this adds to your fluff....sometimes too many options is overwhelming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christy B Posted March 29, 2009 Author Share Posted March 29, 2009 TOG Redesign has SOTW scheduled, no work for you to do unless the group is using Classic TOG. Here's how it lines up: TOG Year 1 and SOTW I are the same (creation to fall of Western Roman Empire) TOG Year 2 includes all of SOTW II and about 3/4 of SOTW III (fall of Western Roman Empire to 1800) TOG Year 3 includes the rest of SOTW III and a little less than 1/2 of SOTW IV (the 19th century) TOG Year 4 includes the rest of SOTW IV (the 20th-21st centuries) As far as high school goes, You are free to do whatever you like :001_smile:, but TOG has done all the work for you so you would be making more work for yourself as you already know. Does this group you're thinking of joining do TOG at 1/2 pace? How many years of high school does your daughter have left? Oh, that's so helpful, thanks! We have a group of homeschoolers at church that meet for enrichment activities. The mom guiding the literature discussion group (two levels, one for each of my girls!) does use TOG. So, obviously, she is going to cover the lit that her kids will be covering this year at home. It does seem to me that she is using at least Year 2 at half-pace. I'm not sure about the other years, and like I said, I'm not really trying too hard to anticipate future years, so much as trying to make sure that whatever I do this year doesn't cause a lot of trouble down the road. I love, love, love the idea of TOG, I just get overwhelmed when I think about using it. For one thing, my older dd has a strong preference for textbooks and workbooks. This coming year will be 9th and 5th. I have a LOT of liberty in what I determine is "worthy" of a high school credit. For example, if we covered only two units of TOG this year, I would have no qualms with calling it American History in World Context on her transcript. (I know what our local public high school calls "history" and I have confidence that a half year of TOG is far more worthy of a history credit). I had posted a year ago about the option of using high school to go deep instead of wide into history topics; these particular TOG units cover topics that I feel like we rushed through in SOTW. I don't feel compelled to do another four year sweep of history. So I'm pondering my options. The easiest thing to do would be just get over my need for everything to line up, stick with my original plan (Geography and LLfLOTR for literature) and consider this class an elective. Then I look at the TOG website and I think in my heart of hearts I'm drawn to the integrated nature of the curriculum (I did a project in my intro to education class in college where we designed curriculum; my ideal curriculum looked a lot like TOG -- my faculty advisor said "nice, but it would never work in real life" to which I responded, "watch me do it, I'm a homeschooler"). I'm also pondering the idea, I don't know if I got this from Charlotte Mason or where, of following two threads of history each year; one modern and one classic. Wait, that might be LCC. I think CM is following both American and World. Anyway, that appeals to me as well. I think I have a split personality when it comes to my educational philosophy.:tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christy B Posted March 29, 2009 Author Share Posted March 29, 2009 No answers, but have you seen this?They have an awesome history study.... http://www.bfbooks.com/s.nl/sc.1/.f Sorry if this adds to your fluff....sometimes too many options is overwhelming. Karen, you're supposed to be my friend! Stop giving me more options! :tongue_smilie: Just kidding, I've always loved the idea of using BF; actually, this would be a great option for my younger dd, if my older dd ends up with a textbook. My little one doesn't care for textbooks, she'd much prefer this approach. This would be a good program for just one student, as there are several different grade levels to choose from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siloam Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 I love, love, love the idea of TOG, I just get overwhelmed when I think about using it. For one thing, my older dd has a strong preference for textbooks and workbooks. Would he be OK if you use a history spine with him vs. individual books? I haven't done Year 2 with a R level student, but I do think it has a single text you can use for history. The Colonial Period: 1607 - 1750 by Stalcup (listed as the Core or first choice) or The Age of Religious Wars by Dunn is used for all of unit 3 (listed as In-Depth), then it looks like they switch texts for unit 4 (but there is one text that covers all but one week) or Western Civilization by Spielvogel) is an alternate that I is listed for all the weeks covering both units except for one. Could you give the year 1 sample a try this spring to see if it would work? Or wait till fall and give the year 2 sample a try since it starts with Unit 3 where you want to start anyway? Heather Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christy B Posted March 29, 2009 Author Share Posted March 29, 2009 Would he be OK if you use a history spine with him vs. individual books? I haven't done Year 2 with a R level student, but I do think it has a single text you can use for history. The Colonial Period: 1607 - 1750 by Stalcup (listed as the Core or first choice) or The Age of Religious Wars by Dunn is used for all of unit 3 (listed as In-Depth), then it looks like they switch texts for unit 4 (but there is one text that covers all but one week) or Western Civilization by Spielvogel) is an alternate that I is listed for all the weeks covering both units except for one. Could you give the year 1 sample a try this spring to see if it would work? Or wait till fall and give the year 2 sample a try since it starts with Unit 3 where you want to start anyway? Heather Well, see, if the TOG website weren't so convoluted, I might have been able to determine that there was a spine! Yes, that would make a huge difference, and I have spent hours on that dadgum website trying to decipher if a spine was used. Thanks so much for sharing the information; I can understand if TOG doesn't want to give away their reading lists, but honestly, I'm so turned off by not being able to determine what books they use. I've tried the bookshelf option but I can't make heads or tails out of the results of my searches. Sonlight and VP make it perfectly clear which books are spines, which are secondary, and which are fun extras. Okay, I'll quit complaining now. My daughter isn't being homeschooled this year, I suppose we could try a sample over the summer. I ran the idea of TOG by her this afternoon, though, and she really isn't enthused. I'm afraid it would be one of those things where I LOVE the program and the process, and she just doesn't appreciate it. I love planning and thoroughly enjoyed putting together our own middle school studies using SOTW as a spine, but I don't know that it's worth all the effort for a child who really and truly would just rather have a textbook, kwim? I think I'm trying too hard to force the issue because of this lit discussion group; I probably should just give it up and consider the group a fun extra and not try to schedule anything around it. I really and truly appreciate the information and the suggestions! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siloam Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 Well, see, if the TOG website weren't so convoluted, I might have been able to determine that there was a spine! Yes, that would make a huge difference, and I have spent hours on that dadgum website trying to decipher if a spine was used. Thanks so much for sharing the information; I can understand if TOG doesn't want to give away their reading lists, but honestly, I'm so turned off by not being able to determine what books they use. I've tried the bookshelf option but I can't make heads or tails out of the results of my searches. Sonlight and VP make it perfectly clear which books are spines, which are secondary, and which are fun extras. Okay, I'll quit complaining now. Things are in transition right now, especially The Bookshelf. It will probably get better. They used to have a mail in form that was great, but now that TOG isn't selling the books, but an affiliate is...well they can't do one form. What I did was go in and do is choose year 2, unit 3 (then a second search for unit 4), Rhetoric, and History. In the Number of Weeks used column (the second to the last) if it says 5+ weeks it probably is a spine. Now just to be sure I went in and checked my year 2. Week 34 was the one week that doesn't have the unit 4 spines scheduled. I agree with your conclusion about it not being worth it for a child who wouldn't appreciate it, with one exception. She won't get the discussions from a textbook that you will get from TOG. Now if she is going to fight you the whole time it isn't worth it, but if she would actually do them and maybe even enjoy them? Then I would consider it. Heather Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christy B Posted March 29, 2009 Author Share Posted March 29, 2009 Oh, the discussion is a very good point. Actually, I'm not sure she really would appreciate the TOG style discussion -- HOWEVER -- she would LOVE it if we went over end-of-chapter questions in a textbook orally. So, that would be a great way to encourage some interaction. I don't mean to come across like I am rejecting everyone's excellent suggestions; the exchange of ideas is helping me remember why we don't do literature based history -- it frustrates this student, and then I get frustrated because she doesn't appreciate all my effort, lol. So, thanks for helping me think it through; I know we need to stick with textbooks. This literature group is going to have to be just a self-contained extra for her; she can easily refer to our timeline to see where the current book fits in the grand scheme of history. Thanks SO MUCH, everyone, for helping me think this through! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siloam Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 Working out a good choice is often a process. I am glad you have come to a solid choice, and that you did it without wasting a bunch of $$. :D Heather Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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