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Posted
Absolutely inappropriate. The movie is rated R with *good*reason*. It's also powerful and thought-provoking, but *not* for young children without their parents' permission!

 

Oh, and I would consider watching this with my kids when they are teenagers. But not before.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't this unrated because Mel Gibson put it out himself? I believe I read at the time it came out that it would have been rated X for violence.

 

I absolutely have not allowed my kids to see it. It's too much at tender ages, and was almost too much for me (in my 30's). Totally inappropriate.

 

Susan

Posted
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't this unrated because Mel Gibson put it out himself? I believe I read at the time it came out that it would have been rated X for violence.

 

 

According the the Motion Picture Association of America, it's "Rated R for sequences of graphic violence."

Posted
Well heaven help that woman if I were the mother of that 7 year old girl......

Totally inappropriate. And cruel.

That woman would be in sooooooo much trouble with me and whoever joined my band wagon.

ETA - my mom cried when Dorothy slapped the lion. She had to leave the theatre. Some children are more sensitive than others.

No matter the movie....if a kid is uncomfortable and emotionally shaken, stop the movie or remove the child!

I wouldn't force a kid to watch Mary Poppins if it scared them.

 

Yes. As I think about it further, to subject a child to something that is traumatizing to them and then NOT allow them to leave when requested is emotional abuse.

Posted

Well, I didn't do it to him, I'm not THAT bad."

 

 

ug, beating hed on the wall here... that is not at all what I said or what I meant or what I think.

 

I give up.

 

either I'm not being clear or I'm bieng misunderstood.:blink:

 

and it's really not relivant to the thread anyways.

 

I stand in solidarity with everyone else that the kid shouldn't have been watching it without mom or at CCD.:)

Posted

You need to take action and complain to the head of whoever you need to. This should NOT have been done. In our local ps I know that they HAVE to inform the children of any movie that is not educational and also most activities and get parents permission. Being that this was rated R this teacher should be in plenty of trouble and should not be allowed to teach catechism again. This is a wonderful movie...for the right age group. I would NEVER allow my children to watch it so young.

Posted (edited)

This is how our church is handling it for the 7-12th graders: "... we will be presenting a Passion/Easter program and will be showing clips from 'The Passion of the Christ.' Due to the graphic nature of some scenes, a permission slip is required if the student is under 17 years of age or a parent must attend. For those students not attending, so-and-so will be giving a special Easter message in the gym."

Edited by nova mama
typo
Posted

Ok so I spoke to the teacher who chose to throw my child in a room where the movie The Passion of Christ was being shown. She did apoligize and we are supposed to meet with Father Mario on Sat, but she also offered a tearful excuse. Basically, it was a filler since this classes teacher did not show up. Another class was watching it with parental consent and she was doing an exam for her class and felt she couldn't keep a whole other class with hers. I did explain to her that she had other options, like putting the exam and movie off til the next week so that the kids could be devided among the teachers. Or asking the children to do some reading and crossword puzzles in one corner of the room while she gave her children the test, or call the parents.

 

After speaking to her on the phone, I think she is under a lot of stress and simply did not think at all. I don't know how to react to that. The mother in me is upset, but of coarse the Christian in me says to forgive. I think the thought of being removed as a Catechism teacher has her mortified. As well as the idea that she broke my trust, she honestly seemed broken up by it when I told her that I felt like my rights as a parent were violated. I think the thought of someone objecting to that movie had never occurred to her, but as I explained my reasoning it dawned on her like a ton of bricks. At least this is what I percieved, she didn't get it til it was brought in front of her. I actually find myself feeling bad because she was crying and truely terrified at what might happen. Where doI go from here?:confused:

Posted

I think you've done enough. Let it lie. If the church takes action against her, so be it. There are consequences for not using the best judgement.

 

Ria

Posted

and I've been rightly called down for them. It felt terrible at the time. Each time I get reprimanded by someone, and they're saying the truth, I get a little bit smarter. You have probably changed this woman's life somewhat. It was hard for her to realize the consequences for her actions, but now she will never make that kind of mistake again (hopefully). You did well, not just for your child's sake but for others too.

Posted

I think you needed to address the issue; it was inappropriate to show that movie without parental permission. However, I wouldn't want her to lose her job. I would try to talk to the priest or the DRE, and let them know she apologized, etc. and that the issue has been dealt with from my pov. Punishing her more won't help anything.

 

Janet

Posted

I'm glad she's realized the problem with her actions, but I think it's still perfectly appropriate for there to be consequences to that. If she's under that much stress, perhaps she needs to scale back a little in her commitments. Of course it feels terrible to get reprimanded and it will feel worse to be let go if that's what happens, and I'm sympathetic to that, but that's not a reason to keep her where she is if that's not what the church decides.

Posted

An exam? In a Catholic religion class?? Very strange! And it seems odd to me that it wouldn't have occurred to her that the other class had parental permission but this class did not.

Posted

Where doI go from here?:confused:

 

Hold steady, in the nicest way possible.

 

You have told her the issues with her choice. Her reasons for her choice do not change how inappropriate it was. When you meet with Father Mario, you can freely say you forgive this woman, and you know she was not trying to supercede your rights as a parent, and you understand that she wasn't trying to hurt anyone. Say those things. However, it is also terribly, terribly important to hold firm on what a bad choice this was--her apologies and her reasons do not change what happened, though her brokenness helps you extend your compassion, forgiveness, and sincere hope that she can learn from this.

 

I have directed church children's programs for many years. This error in judgment was a big, big error. A small error would be forgetting to get a sub for someone, or ordering curriculum late. Forcing such young children to watch such a graphic movie (especially for such silly reasons) tells me that this person lacks important discernment, and no, I would not allow that person to be in a decision-making position. Putting the kids in the room in the first place was wrong, but then forcing them to stay there when they were upset and when she could see and know what was happening on screen--she had opportunities to change this situation and did not do so.

 

Frankly, I have problems with the other teacher who was silent and complicit (the one originally showing the film). No, he didn't know there wasn't parental approval. However, he could have asked or reminded the director when she combined the classes. ("You're aware these kids have to have parental permission for this??") He could have seen how young/little the kids are. He could have responded to the distress of the kids right in front of him. He was silent and complicit when the kids were forced to stay.

 

The bottom line--hold steady about what was wrong in the situation, but also offer your genuine forgiveness. Forgiveness does NOT mean there are no consequences. The woman does not have to be punished, but there are consequences--an error in judgment like this does result in a legitimate lack of trust in her discernment.

Posted

Totally agree with that. I also work in my church's children's program, and I would consider that a very good reason to let a teacher go. For someone in a leadership position it's way out of line.

Posted

whole heartedly.

 

I'm glad to see your follow-up thus far; I encourage you to see it through. It doesn't sound as though it would be your decision as to whether she is asked to step out of that position or not. Before you now is an opportunity to discuss this w/your priest and "hold fast" to the truth (maybe hard to do when you know said teacher seems repentant and broken up) and gravity of the situation as you present it to him.

Posted

I glad she realized her errors. However, common sense would dictate (said in my best Spock voice) that if she had to get parental permission from the students assigned to the class wouldn't you also need permission from students thrust into the class by circumstance?

 

Actions have consequences. I have worked in ministry before, but not in children's ministry. I hold those workers with a certain awe because you do need to be able to make split second decisions, not everyone is gifted to do that.

Posted

All of you make great points, I believe I have already forgiven. I really needed her to understand what was wrong, why and feel that she wouldn't do it again.

 

As far as her being stressed, it seems they have a huge program (over 100 kids) and they should really ask the parents to be more involved...I know I will. It's strange how none of the parents help out the classes, I make it a point to go to my childrens teachers and speak to them at the end of the day, even if just to say hello. The only thing they ask the parents to do is attend a two hour meeting each month. I have to say that I have learned nothing at these meetings, but have been polite about it. My time would be better spent assisting in calss once a month.

 

I don't plan on pushing loss of her position, she apologized and seems to mean it...it will be up to Father Mario. I will stand firm though on my belief that it was wrong and give my reasons why but after that it is up to them. I think I will make it clear too that if she or whomever is in chage ever finds themselves in that situation again (missing teachers, no sub) I would be more than happy to help.

 

I whole heartedly believe that we each learned something from this and ds seems okay. He had an initial fear of going back, but with each day seems better...plus I told him I would go in with him and leave only if his teacher was there and he felt completely comfortable. Thank you everyone for your support. I think I may have really blown my top if I hadn't been able to vent.

 

Danielle

Posted

Danielle,

 

I have to agree with Strider that, although you have forgiven her, it does not relieve her from responsibility for her actions. She shows poor judgement (not showed - because she didn't get it until you pointed it out to her.) She has shown that she lacks the discernment necessary to hold a position of such responsibility. I also have concerns that none of the other teachers objected a well.

 

This brings up another issue that you pointed out - lack of parent involvement. I do think your parish needs to address that as well. In our parish, one parent other than the teacher must be present at every class. Parents take turns helping out. They cannot have a child in the religious education program without making a commitment to assisting the program.

Posted

Being a former CCD teacher of 8th graders, I would hold the director and pastor responsible even more so than the teacher. Why is a rated R movie being shown in CCD class, even with permission? The only time I have seen it shown in parishes/churches around here is as a general churchwide event with the church taking the responsibility.

 

I understand the teacher's stress and I sympathize with the teacher. It is stressful to teach CCD and having more kids than your own makes it more stressful. It is common in these programs to just stick kids in other classes without any warning when a teacher doesn't show for his/her own class.

 

Honestly, I think some changes need to be made in your parish's CCD program so that everyone including the pastor knows when events such as this movie are taking place so that everyone is on the same page. Plus it sounds as if each class needs at least two teachers.

Posted
I think you've done enough. Let it lie. If the church takes action against her, so be it. There are consequences for not using the best judgement.

 

Ria

 

:iagree: However, If I were her supervisor, she would be fired, removed, whatever. She simply is not capable of being trusted with decisions that effect children. There are poor judgement calls. This is much more then that. This is actually allowing someone to be harmed due to your lack of understanding and common sense. What ever you do is up to you. But MY kid would not be in her class and if I were asked, I would recommend her removal. I would feel bad for her because she feels bad and is embarrased, but I would not feel bad that she be removed. Like it says above, there are consequences for our actions.

Posted

It sounds like you did the right thing by calling her out. It also sounds like she is doing the right thing by being remorseful and taking responsibility for her actions. Now you just need to trust that the church will do the right thing. Whatever they decide is up to them. It's time for you to forgive and let it go, whatever the church may decide to do.

Posted
This brings up another issue that you pointed out - lack of parent involvement. I do think your parish needs to address that as well. In our parish, one parent other than the teacher must be present at every class. Parents take turns helping out. They cannot have a child in the religious education program without making a commitment to assisting the program.

 

I spoke to her today along with two other mothers and really pushed this point. I said exactly that, parent at every class.

 

I was told that an official report was being made (not sure what this means) and there will be a meeting today with all the teachers and Priests. I also found out that Father Mario has decided that this movie should not be shown in class ever again. It can be reccomended or done outside of class as its own event with older students, and parents present. I have done my part and offered forgivness. I have also offered as much of my time as they may need in the future to volunteer within the program (and keep my eyes on things).

 

In the spirit of the season, I want to start anew and help my son see the beauty of christ sacrifice for us...he is very excited about the activities this week for Semana Santa which is a very big thing in Mexico. I take this to be a good sign, which meas your prayers have worked.

 

Thank you all.

 

Danielle

Posted
but not all sin is equal. are we saying that murder is equal to cursing my dishwasher when it breaks?

 

Actually, in my belief, no. Sin is sin to God. Adam and Eve ate fruit from a tree that God had told them not to eat from. They were punished by being sent from the garden (an, of course, ultimately with death...but not an afterlife in Hell...). Cain killed his brother Abel and he, too, was punished by being sent away. However, God marked him so that no one would murder him as he had his brother.

 

I believe that trying to vary degrees of sin is simply a human thing. All things that hurt God and that are not done for His glory are the same in His eyes.

  • 2 years later...
Posted
This is but one link by scholars that shows just a few of the inaccuracies in the film http://www.archaeological.org/pdfs/papers/Comments_on_The_Passion.pdf She espoused some beliefs that I find morally unacceptable and historically inaccurate regarding the Jewish people. I am truly sad that anyone found this film acceptable for young children. Very poor judgement and if it were me I would seriously reconsider placing my children in the care of people with obviously poor judgement and a lack of education regarding the developmental propriety of certain material for young children and adolescents.

 

I had been considering showing this to some high-schoolers but now will just skip it.

 

The link goes to a review which was, in part, by Professor Jodi Magness, whom I admire. I'm relieved my question is answered -- no, we will not view this movie:001_smile:

Posted (edited)

I am HORRIFIED for your son and those other children. I own that movie and my son is 7. There is NO WAY that is appropriate.

 

What age? Adult. It is violent violent. Gut wrenching violent.

 

ETA: LOL I didn't see that this is such an old thread!

Edited by Sputterduck
Posted
I haven't seen the movie. But a two second google search told me that

the move is rated R.

 

If anyone showed any of my chilren any movie rated R, they would never be left in charge of my child again. Period.

 

 

Exactly.

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