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Ok, help me figure out if I am overreacting. My son came home from Catechism today a little upset. He said that his teacher did not show up and that the lead teacher put them in a room to watch the movie, The Passion of the Christ. There were children as young as 7 and one girl began to cry. At this point the woman still wouldn't allow her to stop watching the film. I was not notified about this beforehand and strongly feel that the fim is much to violent for my children. As a Catholic, I understand the importance of the history itself, but still feel the movie is not meant for young children or even some teenagers. My son was very upset about what he saw. He is not a child that is easily upset, but I am fuming. I feel I should have been asked or at least notified before. At what age is this movie appropriate? Am I wrong? Shouldn't this have been on the clas calendar? Shouldn't they allow the parents to decide whether their children should watch this or not?

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Absolutely inappropriate. The movie is rated R with *good*reason*. It's also powerful and thought-provoking, but *not* for young children without their parents' permission!

 

Oh, and I would consider watching this with my kids when they are teenagers. But not before.

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I had a hard time sitting through that movie because the violence was so upsetting. I don't have a problem with the message or the history, it was just hard to see how horrible humans can be to each other. I can't imagine making small children watch it. I would be throwing a major fit!

 

jeannie

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When it came out we asked our pastor about age recommendations. He had been to a preview screening. He said 12 and over. We are A/G and he had let his own children watch LOTR, Star Wars, etc without hesitation.

 

His hesitation with Passion of the Christ, aside from the R rating, was the realistic beating and crucifixion of Christ. As a christian adult I see that and am moved because I know it is MY sin for which Christ took those stripes. He felt that a child watching that would be disturbed because at under 12 most children have not sinned in such a manner that would warrant Christ receiving such punishment. It's not personal to them, it's simply graphic.

 

My son is 11 and has not seen the movie yet. We are currently debating whether to allow him this year as it ties into our studies. However, we will do so with great parental supervision and lots of dialogue afterward.

 

Yes, I would be disturbed. Yes, I would bring it up to the proper authority in your church.

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I would be furious if this happened to my child. The damage that can be done to young children watching movies that are far too mature for them to process is very real! I would NEVER let me children watch that move! It's a great movie for adults but it IS an adult movie.

 

I hope you find peace about this situation b/c I would be all over the person that put that movie on WITHOUT my permission!

 

Blessings!

Bethany Blizard

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Thank you, I just couldn't believe my ears when he told me. I called both the church office and the teacher at home and asked to be called back. If they do not call I will talk to them after mass as calmly as possible. But the horse has already left the barn, and I am worried my son will have nightmares. He was really upset. He said it was so ugly and he didn't want to see how mean they were or the blood. I am just thankful that my younger son didn't see it.

 

BTW I watched the movie and had to put my head down and even walk out of the room a few times. It is a hard movie to sit through, I can't imagine how those poor children felt. Thanks everyone for letting me vent.

 

Danielle

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Ok, help me figure out if I am overreacting. My son came home from Catechism today a little upset. He said that his teacher did not show up and that the lead teacher put them in a room to watch the movie, The Passion of the Christ. There were children as young as 7 and one girl began to cry. At this point the woman still wouldn't allow her to stop watching the film. I was not notified about this beforehand and strongly feel that the fim is much to violent for my children. As a Catholic, I understand the importance of the history itself, but still feel the movie is not meant for young children or even some teenagers. My son was very upset about what he saw. He is not a child that is easily upset, but I am fuming. I feel I should have been asked or at least notified before. At what age is this movie appropriate? Am I wrong? Shouldn't this have been on the clas calendar? Shouldn't they allow the parents to decide whether their children should watch this or not?
Nope you are 100% correct ,time to home school the CCD. I do and have been very pleased with the outcome. Incidentally the film is not historically accurate as it is based on the writings of an 18th century nun named Catherine Emmerich who was very much a product of the age . This is but one link by scholars that shows just a few of the inaccuracies in the film http://www.archaeological.org/pdfs/papers/Comments_on_The_Passion.pdf She espoused some beliefs that I find morally unacceptable and historically inaccurate regarding the Jewish people. I am truly sad that anyone found this film acceptable for young children. Very poor judgement and if it were me I would seriously reconsider placing my children in the care of people with obviously poor judgement and a lack of education regarding the developmental propriety of certain material for young children and adolescents.
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No way should younger children have been watching this without their parents' consent AND their parents being there with them! I believe my older son was about 12 when we saw it and even then it was hard for him. He closed his eyes through some parts of it....

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I think they should have allowed the parents to decide beforehand.

 

I have not seen this movie yet, myself. Movies are powerful to me, and I was not sure I wanted a film maker's version of Christ etched in my mind for the rest of my life. I would have been very, very upset. I would rather have class cancelled then movies shown without my approval, especially to a 7 year old.

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Nope you are 100% correct ,time to home school the CCD. I do and have been very pleased with the outcome. Incidentally the film is not historically accurate as it is based on the writings of an 18th century nun named Catherine Emmerich who was very much a product of the age . This is but one link by scholars that shows just a few of the inaccuracies in the film http://www.archaeological.org/pdfs/papers/Comments_on_The_Passion.pdf She espoused some beliefs that I find morally unacceptable and historically inaccurate regarding the Jewish people. I am truly sad that anyone found this film acceptable for young children. Very poor judgement and if it were me I would seriously reconsider placing my children in the care of people with obviously poor judgement and a lack of education regarding the developmental propriety of certain material for young children and adolescents.

 

Very good points!

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Nope you are 100% correct ,time to home school the CCD. I do and have been very pleased with the outcome. Incidentally the film is not historically accurate as it is based on the writings of an 18th century nun named Catherine Emmerich who was very much a product of the age . This is but one link by scholars that shows just a few of the inaccuracies in the film http://www.archaeological.org/pdfs/papers/Comments_on_The_Passion.pdf She espoused some beliefs that I find morally unacceptable and historically inaccurate regarding the Jewish people. I am truly sad that anyone found this film acceptable for young children. Very poor judgement and if it were me I would seriously reconsider placing my children in the care of people with obviously poor judgement and a lack of education regarding the developmental propriety of certain material for young children and adolescents.

 

I have to ask...where do you guys get this information? It was a very interesting piece but I would NEVER have known about it or how to find it.

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Our parish is showing it to the Life Teen group which would 9th grade and up. I certainly wouldn't want my younger children seeing it. I would be calling the DRE and the teacher, and if I didn't an answer, the pastor would be hearing from me. I cannot believe she wouldn't let the little girl leave the room. Appalling.

 

I saw it once, and that is all I could handle.

 

Janet

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I'm sorry this happened. I agree you need to let everyone know about how inappropriate it is to show an R rated movie no matter what they think about it! I would be positive with your son. I would tell him that it is a movie that will make more sense as he gets older and continue to share the gospel message of the movie. With encouragement this doesn't have to be a problem later with his faith. I'll be praying for all of you. And praying you will all sleep well!

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Danielle,

 

It is unbelievable that children that young would be forced to watch a movie designed for an older audience. What was that teacher thinking!

 

But now that the damage was done, you can share with your son how loving Christ was to die for our sins. It was God's plan to redeem mankind. We could never be good enough to deserve it.

 

Annette

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Nope you are 100% correct ,time to home school the CCD. I do and have been very pleased with the outcome. Incidentally the film is not historically accurate as it is based on the writings of an 18th century nun named Catherine Emmerich who was very much a product of the age . This is but one link by scholars that shows just a few of the inaccuracies in the film http://www.archaeological.org/pdfs/papers/Comments_on_The_Passion.pdf She espoused some beliefs that I find morally unacceptable and historically inaccurate regarding the Jewish people. I am truly sad that anyone found this film acceptable for young children. Very poor judgement and if it were me I would seriously reconsider placing my children in the care of people with obviously poor judgement and a lack of education regarding the developmental propriety of certain material for young children and adolescents.

 

I never heard this before. Although knowing what I do of Mel Gibson, I am not at all surprised that he would be attracted to someone like Anne Catherine Emmerich. I've read some of her writings, and it left me highly disturbed, to say the least. Certainly nothing I would expose my children to. Like you said, a product of her age. I'll read through the link.

 

Janet

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Wow, I'm sorry this happened. Totally out of line.

 

I haven't seen the movie myself. I know that *I* could not handle it and I'm a grown-up. My mom saw it and spent the time in the theater covering her face. It was just too much.

 

Not for children at all. I would be *very* upset.

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I would be absolutely, over-the-top LIVID.

 

Way too much violence for such young children. AND way too much violence for young children without parental notification or consent.

 

I am horrified and sickened just thinking about it.

 

If I were you I would raise a HUGE stink over this--this is so totally, completely inappropriate I would likely never allow that person to teach a children's class again. (I have directed children's church programming for many years.) This person has shown a serious lack of judgment.

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I'm wondering if it wasn't a "filler" since the regular teacher didn't show up and the lead teacher was just using it for "crowd control." Like grab a video and keep them occupied. It showed very poor judgment. Even the Jesus movie, which was not nearly to the level of The Passion of Christ, created a special version for children.

 

Honestly, if your child does have nightmares, I don't think it would be over-the-top to take him to a child therapist. In that case, it would also be appropriate for the church to pay for it. You might also ask the church to contact a child psychologist or someone to come and talk with the parents about how to help the children process the trauma they experienced. I would think about this both from an emotional standpoint and from wanting to guard my child's faith.

 

I won't see the movie myself.

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I would be absolutely, over-the-top LIVID.

 

Way too much violence for such young children. AND way too much violence for young children without parental notification or consent.

 

I am horrified and sickened just thinking about it.

 

If I were you I would raise a HUGE stink over this--this is so totally, completely inappropriate I would likely never allow that person to teach a children's class again. (I have directed children's church programming for many years.) This person has shown a serious lack of judgment.

 

:iagree::iagree:Yeah, this is not a joke. The person who supervised that class does NOT need to be working with children and would NEVER supervise MY kid again. There has to be SOME evidence of common sense and good judgement and this proves there is none. If you can't make a simple decision like this to protect small minds and hearts, they what can you be trusted with? Not a chance.

Edited by katemary63
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I would feel.... raped... utterly betrayed and violated. They took away your rights as a parent! They took away some of your child's innocence! I'd be doing more than just talking to them. Write letters to whoever to have this person make a public apology and then have him FIRED.

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I would feel.... raped... utterly betrayed and violated. They took away your rights as a parent! They took away some of your child's innocence! I'd be doing more than just talking to them. Write letters to whoever to have this person make a public apology and then have him FIRED.

 

You took the words right out of my mouth. I feel that I should have been allowed to decide when and where my child would watch this.

 

The teacher in question never returned my phone calls, but I went down to the church and spoke to the our Priest. It turns out that he was not aware the movie was being shown. He was very understanding and apoligetic. I didn't realize how upset I was until I began crying in the office...I usually have more self control. He seemed to agree with me on every point and was surprised that they had chosen to show this movie to such young children. Of coarse he promised to talk to all the teachers and speak to the other Priest at the Church an then have a meeting with me after he had done so.

 

After speaking to our Priest I actually ran in to two of the teachers outside and they gave me more information. One of them happened to be the one that was showing the movie to his class. He assured me that he had spoken to all the parents and gotten permission (mostly 12yo). The lead teacher just showed up with the other class and put them in the room. This matches what my son told me. They almost passed out when I told them that I was not notified before hand and that my son had just turned 10 3 weeks ago.

 

On the bright side I have spoken to my son a lot, and after the initial shock he seems to be fine. He was very upset that someone would treat Christ in this way and had a hard time understanding it. He did tell me that he turned away and didn't see some parts. What he said was that after the part where rocks were thrown at Christ he refused to keep looking. Also it seems that he actually left before the very end since time had run out. i just know he wasn't ready, but I plan to keep talking with him throughout the week and told him that he could ask me questions if he needed to.

 

Thank you all for you help, wisdom and all the information. Please pray for us.

 

Danielle

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As a christian adult I see that and am moved because I know it is MY sin for which Christ took those stripes. He felt that a child watching that would be disturbed because at under 12 most children have not sinned in such a manner that would warrant Christ receiving such punishment. It's not personal to them, it's simply graphic. .

 

okay. i have to be honest here...

 

I can honestly say I have never sinned enough to warrant Christ receiving such a punishment either. Sinned? sure, but nothing of that magnitude. But he wasn't just crucified for me, he was crucified for everyone. And hopefuly I have some time left in this life and who knows what sin I can't imagine today that could enter my life later.

 

I read the link briefly and didn't find any of it bothersome or anti-semitic. It's a theatrical piece intended to convey the pain (the passion) of Christ, not a documentary and I fully expected some creative license to be given to that fact. I no more took the film as historically accurate in every way than I do The Ten Commandments with Heston as Moses.

 

We own it and have watched it with the older kids, about 9 or 10 and up. Any that felt umcomfortable could have left to go play or whatever and did at times. We had a lot of discussion while watching the movie about our faith and about sufferring in life and for others.

 

I would be livid if someone showed the movie to my kids without asking.

 

Honestly I'd be irked at showing ANY movie during CCD. They have the kids for far too short a time to waste valuble faith formation time in front of a stupid tv.

 

I second the recommendation to do CCD at home.

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I'm speechless.

 

why?:001_huh:

 

It doesn't mean I don't believe or that I think I'm sinless. I do believe very much in my faith and my God and I know I'm no where near a saint and will have plenty of time in purgatory. I struggle every day with my faith same as everyone else.

 

but I can't think of anything I've done in my life that was so horrible that I deserve to be treated the way Christ was treated. And the point of his sufferring was to take our place for our sins. That's not to say I don't find redemption in His Holy Sacrifice. It's to say that His sufferring was so great because it wasn't just for me or just for some sins - it was for all the sins of all mankind.

 

So the minister who said, "that a child watching that would be disturbed because at under 12 most children have not sinned in such a manner that would warrant Christ receiving such punishment. It's not personal to them, it's simply graphic." is very likely in error of logic.

 

His implication is that having a personal relationship with Christ is based on how greatly one has sinned and that soneone wouldn't feel worthy of Christ sacrifice if they hadn't sinned in a sufficent 'manner.

 

My point was very simple:

I can honestly say that I've never committed a sin to warrant taking the punishment Christ took. I'd have to commit some major sins on a fairly regular basis to warrant thinking someone just in getting that kind of punishment. Yet I am capable of seeing worth in His sufferring for my sins and feeling gratitude for that.

 

so what about that is leaving you speechless? not being snarky, just thinking aloud here and curious as to what I said that was so shocking to you.:)

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Remudamom, I think some faiths believe that there are different degrees of sin; ie, some are worse than others. I think her comment comes from that perspective.

 

Ria

 

Must be. I'm no great theologian (theologist?) but I believe I have a covenental link to Adam, (original sin) and thank goodness a convenant with Christ.

 

To me sin is sin, and I know I've sinned enough to need a savior.

 

And all that being said, I'm sure I'd commit a few more sins if some idiot had shown that movie to my little ones.

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Must be. I'm no great theologian (theologist?) but I believe I have a covenental link to Adam, (original sin) and thank goodness a convenant with Christ.

 

To me sin is sin, and I know I've sinned enough to need a savior.

 

me too on all those counts and I didn't say otherwise?

but not all sin is equal. are we saying that murder is equal to cursing my dishwasher when it breaks?

 

And all that being said, I'm sure I'd commit a few more sins if some idiot had shown that movie to my little ones.

 

agreed!

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Jesus is the new Adam. The Catholic position is that Jesus erased even the "Original Sin" of men, that has come from Adam. There's nothing that we can do to merit our own salvation. No one can come to the Father except through Jesus Christ.

 

There are degrees of sin in the Catholic Church, but it isn't the magnitude of sin, but the reality of sin, that keeps us out of heaven. Christ's atonement changed everything.

 

And I do believe I have sinned that much, speaking as a Catholic. Any small thing that I do that comes between me and my relationship with God has to be made right. And Jesus didn't die for just my sins. He died for all.

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Honestly, if your child does have nightmares, I don't think it would be over-the-top to take him to a child therapist. In that case, it would also be appropriate for the church to pay for it. You might also ask the church to contact a child psychologist or someone to come and talk with the parents about how to help the children process the trauma they experienced. I would think about this both from an emotional standpoint and from wanting to guard my child's faith.

 

I won't see the movie myself.

:iagree:

 

I was traumatized for years by some movie I watched on prime time TV about a nuclear bomb. My older sister was supposed to watch it for school, but my mom said, "No way." When my mom went out, my sister and I watched it. I am guessing I was 8. I still have nightmares about it and it probably was not close to the movie your son has seen. (Which I will probably never see because I am so sensitive.)

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The Faith Formation programs I've seen are usually garbage anyway. We do so much more at home than they can do in a 1 hour class per week.

 

This very tendency toward idiocy is what made me start homeschooling my kids for faith formation. Too much is left to the teachers. In our parish the textbook is weak so the teachers can teach our kids just about anything they want. Worst case scenario is that they do something harmful to our kids. I've seen that a few times here, but not to the degree you're talking about.

 

My 15yo hasn't seen The Passion yet. I'm not ready for him to see it. It's a parent's call, not a teacher's. When a presentation is questionable for kids, teachers ALWAYS defer to the parent. And the priest. And the faith formation director. I don't know what you mean by "lead teacher," but since there's a possibility that that teacher, who exercised such poor judgment, is in a position of leading, the program is dangerous.

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okay. i have to be honest here...

 

I can honestly say I have never sinned enough to warrant Christ receiving such a punishment either. Sinned? sure, but nothing of that magnitude.

 

 

 

 

When God says, "the wages of sin are death," many believe it to mean that those "wages" equal an eternity spent in hell where Christ himself says there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. For your sin, however minute, you deserve ETERNITY in hell. Christ took upon himself the entirety of YOUR deserved suffering. When you think of it by comparing your eternity in hell with his hours of crucifixion, do you see it differently? I venture to say that Christ would have fulfilled his purpose on the cross for a single disciple if that were the case.

It is dangerous to compare the severity of one sin to another. In terms of consequences in this life, sure there are some sins "worse" then others. However, in terms of eternal consequences, even a single, minute, sin earns you "the wages" of death. It is for that very reason that Christ suffered.

No one is "good enough" to "get out of" hell on thier own. The "wages" must be paid for each and every individual, no matter how "good" they were on Earth.

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I believe newborns need a Savior..........and what sins have they "committed"? I believe that as we are all doomed in Adam, so are we saved in Christ.

 

I know I don't put things very well. I do believe that some sins are worse than others, but any sin deserves the wrath of God and therefore needs atonement.

 

By the world's standards I haven't committed any biggie sins............yet. But if what Christ went through on the cross is deemed appropriate for an infant (and I believe it is) then I know my sins aren't too insignificant for His sacrifice.

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I would have been furious. Completely inappropriate, developmentally, spiritually, everything. I would have been upset if it had been shown to my teen without my permission, let alone a 7 year old. The more I think about it, the more upset I become for your poor child and all those other children forced to watch it. I would take this up with the pastor, and, if no satisfactory response, the bishop!!!!!

 

Dh and I have seen it, but our children have not. We are thinking of having our oldest (age 15) watch it with us this year. There are plenty of adults at our church who have not seen it because they didn't want to see the violence.

 

Trying to calm down, now!

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When God says, "the wages of sin are death," many believe it to mean that those "wages" equal an eternity spent in hell where Christ himself says there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. For your sin, however minute, you deserve ETERNITY in hell.

 

thank goodness we have purgatory. my God is a just God and a lovng father in heaven. banishing me to hell for every transgression would be like beating a child for every backtalk or unmade bed.

 

all sin is equal in that all sin separates us from God and all sin is disobeying God.

 

that does not mean all sin is equal in every other way and worthy of instant ****ation to a fire and brimstone hell.

 

hell is seperation from God. the more sin and the greater the sin, the further from God we become. thus all sin is to be avoided and repented so as to grow closer to God

 

Christ took upon himself the entirety of YOUR deserved suffering.

 

yes.

 

I venture to say that Christ would have fulfilled his purpose on the cross for a single disciple if that were the case.

 

agreed

 

It is dangerous to compare the severity of one sin to another.

 

I disagree. Noting obvious levels of severity is only dangerous if used as an excuse to commit certain sins. The comparision itself is not dangerous at all. It's nothign more than an observation. All sins separate us from God, however small or large they might be.

 

No one is "good enough" to "get out of" hell on thier own. The "wages" must be paid for each and every individual, no matter how "good" they were on Earth.

 

this is a whole other topic. of course we get to heaven by grace alone.

we should of course still try to be as good as possible.:)

 

I do believe that some sins are worse than others, but any sin deserves the wrath of God and therefore needs atonement.

 

absolutely!

 

By the world's standards I haven't committed any biggie sins............yet. But if what Christ went through on the cross is deemed appropriate for an infant (and I believe it is) then I know my sins aren't too insignificant for His sacrifice.

 

I didn't say my sins were insignificant to God. I think I actually said the opposite. The unjustness of someone being treated that way for venial sins is bad enough. The unjustness of the Son of God, a sinless Christ, sufferring in that manner is certainly of unimaginable magnitude. Yet He did it for me just as much as for the murderers and theives.

 

I think I might be misunderstood here.:confused:

 

the minister said that a 12 year old wouldn't have sinned enough to comprehend the magnitude of what Christ sufferred for them. My point was very simply that most of us can't imagine committing a sin that deserves being treated like Christ was, yet obviously all of us still comprehend the magnitude of His Sacrifice for us.

 

I honestly didn't mean to start a whole debate on whether my sins are sending me straight to hell or not.:)

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Well heaven help that woman if I were the mother of that 7 year old girl......

Totally inappropriate. And cruel.

That woman would be in sooooooo much trouble with me and whoever joined my band wagon.

ETA - my mom cried when Dorothy slapped the lion. She had to leave the theatre. Some children are more sensitive than others.

No matter the movie....if a kid is uncomfortable and emotionally shaken, stop the movie or remove the child!

I wouldn't force a kid to watch Mary Poppins if it scared them.

Edited by Karen sn
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Well, we made it through the night, and ds seems fine. I think he is stronger than I thought. I am still upset though, because my trust was betrayed.

 

The more I think about it the more shocked I am. At the church we attend the classes are two hours each Saturday and every teacher is supposed to be teaching the same basic thing each week, which is what will be addressed in mass. That said, it's a thin book, so yes I can see that a lot of time is left to the teachers devices.

 

She basically used the movie as a filler. That is to say, my sons teacher had an emergency, but she left instructions on what they were to do and copies of the assignmnet, prayers, readings and a test for the children. Instead of having the children do this, the other teacher chose to wash her hands of them and throw them into another class where the movie was being shown, with parental consent.

 

By lead teacher, I mean that she is the one that basically directs the others. The program is pretty large since we are in Mexico and the majority of the people here are Catholic. Children actually begin classes at the age of five or six, and each step takes two years. That being said, I have to admit that generaly, what in Mexico is seen as appropriate for children to see on TV would never pass in the states. This knowledge did not prepare me for this though. I mean young children here watch soap operas, and the Saturday morning show watched by most chidren has a woman hoping arround in a tiny cheerleader skirt and mid-drif shirt with her popping out in every direction. I simply don't allow my chidren to watch these shows. I never though this was an issue I needed to address at church, since they are supposed to be studying God's word, not Mel's. I was obviously wrong. Well, I am going off to church now, lets see what happens...Thank you again everybody. Your wards have been very helpful, and touching, Bless you all.

 

Danielle

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[/font][/color]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think I might be misunderstood here.:confused:

 

 

:)

 

Well, not neccessarily. But from what you wrote, I can see now that we have very different theologies and that's okay.

 

But to clarify, I didn't say that God sends us to hell for each little sin. MY point was that even the smallest sin disqualifies us from earning heaven - and of course the default is hell - EXCEPT that Christ died for our sins. Which means to me that he died to take away the consequences of our sin - all sin, big and small. The point Remudamom is makeing about original sin is well said also.

 

I just personally believe that Christ died for ME. I do take it personally and do feel responsible. I would never think, "Well, I didn't do it to him, I'm not THAT bad." But I do come from a different type of faith I guess. Part of the reason it is so hard for me to watch the Passion is the agony of personal guilt I feel and how I don't deserve the sacrifice he made. But your right, this is a whole other topic so.....:001_smile: Have a nice day!

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