OhElizabeth, Could I ask for your advice?

[Mommy7]

I need some wisdom. Because of health conditions, it is taking entirely too long to get school accomplished in a day. So, I am having to make some changes. My question is specifically about my 10 yo ds. This boy does not like grammar!!!! We had him at a ps at the beginning of the year and they were doing Shurley (his 1st exposure to Shurley...was totally overwhelming). So, I continued it here at home when we took him out of ps for continuity. (Same situation with 2 of my daughters.) So, I have been teaching 3 levels of Shurley. It's too much for me right now. I must make a change. He finds grammar really difficult. He is easily frustrated and gives up. I have been teaching him Level 3. I want to switch to something that is less time consuming to teach, but I really like the teaching script approach, as it gives me the confidence and structure that I need. :D I have considered Easy Grammar Level 3 or FLL Level 3. Any advice for me? Thank you so much. I hope it's okay to ask a specific person a question on this board. Sorry about all the rambling!!!!

[Mommy7]

I am impatient today.

[Mommy7]

Thank you for your response. I am leaning towards FLL. :)

[Mommy7]

:D I am hoping OhElizabeth is out there somewhere, but I would love advice from any of you.

[Sew happily ever after]

I think that you would be very satisfied with FLL 3. It is very well scripted and super simple and quick to implement. DD just finished 3 and we're starting 4 next week after a 2 week break from all things school related. i enjoy FLL series so much b/c it's so similar to the way I learned grammar and it makes sense to the kids. They have a good foundation and they understand it and enjoy it. Depending on the ages of you DC you could almost combine them all and do it all together which would be a huge time saver. Or if your other ones are super young you could do FLL 1 and 2 which is all oral and takes maybe 5-10 minutes each session. (sorry I didn't pay attention to the ages of your DC except for your 10yo.) DD 9 has such a good grasp of grammar concepts that I believe she could do sixth grade grammar without batting an eye! I attribute her success to FLL 3.

[Donna T.]

My nine year old son really enjoys FLL. He is using Level 3. We'll continue with Level 4 next year. I'm glad I waited until fourth grade to use FLL 3. I know alot of users do it with their 3rd graders, but for us it was a better fit for fourth grade. I've thought about changing programs because I wish that FLL incorporated writing instruction (like Rod & Staff, it includes both grammar and some writing), but he's done so well with FLL. He actually forbids me to drop it.

 

I don't normally like a scripted curriculum but in this case, I do. It makes it so easy for him to understand and I'm relearning many things myself.

[PeterPan]

Well... my main advice is to make sure you're focusing on the most important things. Is grammar really what you need to be worrying about right now? Are your kids writing daily? Make sure they're writing SOMETHING daily, whether it's handwriting or dictation or a journal prompt or a narration or whatever, just something. Make sure they do math every day. Give them books to read. As long as those things are occuring, you're hitting the most important things. Grammar is really a sideline and something you can remediate pretty easily later. If your dc are sick, they may not feel UP to dealing with grammar. Is your ds sick too? I tried to look at your threads to see what your issues are. I take it you have Lyme? And your kids too, or just you? Don't make a dc who is sick do a lot cognitively. Just do what you can and move on.

 

Next, I think you would do well to try to be stable. When you don't feel well, it's more stabilizing for the children if you pick something and do it consistently, even if it's not ideal, than it is to attempt a zillion things haphazardly. Now on the Shurley, I'm not sure how you decided to do 3 different levels, but that was probably unnecessary. What are the ages of your dc? There is SO much overlap to the levels, I would have no trouble at all suggesting you combine your dc, all of them. You would just be savvy about it and have the littles answer the early questions and the olders answer the later questions in the Q&A flows. ;) Shurley is EASY in our house and takes under 10 minutes. I use the Practice Workbook ($7, you buy separately) because it has the sentences already typed out. We go through the Q&A flow together and she marks. Then we diagram one of the sentences on a lap whiteboard.

 

Because your ds has gotten shell-shocked and is feeling stressed about the grammar, I suggest you back off. It doesn't mean Shurley will never work for him, but it's not working the way you're doing it. I also think if you aren't trying to do *3* levels of it, you might feel a little less stressed yourself and have more energy to bring to it. ;) It's almost April. Are you sure you need to start Easy Grammar right now? Is it really that important? Did you guys ever do FLL 1/2? If you haven't done that, I suggest you take all your dc, ALL of them, and do that. Memorize those defs, especially with your oldest. Then do Mad Libs through April and May. Have some fun using the grammar in context and stop stressing over it. Then you can start the program of your choice when you start your new school year.

 

What levels of Shurley do you have and what ages of kids? I would pick a middle level, say Shurley 4 (do you happen to have that one?) and do that with all of them NEXT SCHOOL YEAR, as in when you start your new school year this summer or this fall. If it's Shurley 3, that's fine too! The author says you can do 3,5,7, which means there's no way he's behind, even if you do Shurley 3 with him, as he can still get through Shurley 7 pretty quickly. And if you want to do Easy Grammar, that's fine too. Whatever you think. But I'm just trying to save you a little money and suggest you be stable and use what you have BETTER, rather than jumping a lot. My guess is it's NOT a curriculum problem but a sickness problem. And a sickness problem improves with time, less stress on you, etc. So chilling out your grammar worries, focusing on the basics, and giving yourselves a bit more time to heal would put you in a better position to tackle grammar again in a few months. Are you undergoing therapy for the Lyme?

 

Make sure you're focusing on the basics with the energy you all have. Grammar is NOT the most important thing you could be doing right now. Getting well, and daily math, writing, and plenty of time to read. Those are the basics. You can remediate grammar later, honest. Get well.

[paulcindy]

:iagree:

[Mommy7]

OhElizabeth, thank you so much for your response. I knew I could count on some wisdom from you. In your responses to others, I noticed how thoroughly you would try to answer the questions.

 

Yes, we have Lyme. Specifically, I do as well as my 12 yo and my 9yo. We have all 3 been officially diagnosed with it. My other two (almost 8 yo and ds that hates grammar 10 1/2 yo) are symptomatic. Right now, the three of us that have been diagnosed are undergoing treatment. My 10 yo ds has mentioned that he has a hard time concentrating. Lyme can definitely do that. It's just that I (and especially my dh) am concerned about him being "behind." He's 10 1/2 and in 3rd grade. At the beginning of the year, I thought ps was the answer, so we tried that. It was not the answer. So, we brought them home after a few months. They were thrilled to be home again and so was I.

 

I ended up with three levels of Shurley because of trying to provide continuity from ps to homeschooling again. I felt it wouldn't disrupt their year, AGAIN. I have Levels 1 (teach the almost 8 yo & the 9 yo), Level 3 (10 yo), and Level 4 (12 yo). How do you accomplish Shurley in 10 min.??? I can see how the sentences would only take that long, but what about the lesson that teaches the different parts of speech to be able to do the sentences? You must be great at improvising. I am not. I do each lesson exactly as stated. I am not very comfortable deviating from that. That is why I like scripted lessons. They are right up my ally.

 

That is why I was considering FLL. I just learned about it. It looks great. I thought about getting FLL2 and teaching all three of the younger ones from that. (My 12 yo LOVES Shurley...it's what has made grammar click for her...so I'll keep teaching her) Then, I wondered how that would make my 10 yo feel. So, for his male ego sake, I considered teaching him FLL3 and either keeping almost 8 yo & 9 yo in Shurley 1 (only takes 15 mins.) or doing FLL1 or 2 with them.

 

We are not writing daily. We were just doing the Shurley writing, but that was the first thing to go when I started feeling bad recently. I need a structured writing program. (there goes that personality thing again!) I looked at WWE online and it looks wonderful...and it doesn't take long to teach...) Do you have any idea what level I would use??? I thought about using FLL on MWF and WWE on T, Th.

 

Math is a different ballgame. Once again, for continuity sake, I went with Saxon that they were using. Only, it turned out that my 10 yo ds was in a level too high for him. (This yr the ps was jumping ahead a level!) So, I put him in Saxon 3 with the 9 yo and that has worked well. I've been teaching Saxon 2 to my almost 8 yo. It takes 45 min-1hr to teach these classes. It is too much. We're switching to TT! They loved the sample I downloaded. They kept wanting to play the "math game"!!! :lol:

 

My dh is very concerned about them being "behind." We are making progress, but how quickly is directly related to how we are all feeling. That is why I am trying to lighten my teaching load. I'll be more consistent and "stable" then, as you said.

 

Also, next yr. I will be adding my two youngest...(5 & 6 yo) So, I have to free up some teaching time for them. I figured I'll start them out together in K and see how it goes. If the almost 5 yo isn't ready, I'll back off with him. Any good phonics programs out there? I've always used Abeka for 1st-3rd up until now. But, I don't care for their K program. Once again, I need structure or I tend to flounder. I would love for it to feel fun!! :D

 

How about these changes?

 

1. TT across the board

2. Either finish Shurley 1 or switch to FLL 1or 2 (which?)

3. Switch to FLL3 for my 10 yo

4. Keep at Shurley 4 with my 12 yo (she loves it)

5. Add WWE

 

 

Thanks so much for listening and for helping. I can't tell you how much I appreciate it. I welcome any and all suggestions!!!

[Mommy7]

:lol:

[PeterPan]

It's a challenge to teach that many kids even if you feel well. And just in reading your reply, my first concern was for the cost of all these options. Having had health problems myself, I KNOW how much of your budget goes to that and how tight it gets! TT, while good, might not have the levels your kids need, given where they're at now, and is a comparatively expensive option. You know what I sincerely suggest you do for your math? CLE. At least look at it. You can't beat the price point, and it's solid, spirals, relatively independent, and has everything built in (drills, etc.). They'll even send you sample books for free. I know it's not fancy and interactive like TT, but the price is great and it would allow you to place each of your dc at the appropriate levels and get them moving forward. I think they have placement tests. Look at it! What math is your 12 yo doing? You didn't mention it, so I assume it's working. Don't change what is working. But for those other dc, 45 minutes a day to teach those lower levels is too much! I'd look at CLE or Horizons. Either would be solid, take MUCH less time on your part, and be very affordable. I think TT with a very young dc might require enough supervision on your part, just to make sure it gets done, alternate kids on the computer, etc,. that you could just as easily teach it with a more speedy curriculum. CLE or Horizons.

 

Now, about the language arts. I hear you on needing it all put together, ready to go, and scripted. I suggest you look for something that gives you both writing and grammar, not just grammar. WWE is good, so just add on a dab of grammar. Since you'll be looking at the CLE math, you could look at the CLE language arts stuff too. Does LLATL have writing assignments? Then that would work. Get something that has your grammar *and* writing, because the writing is actually more important than the grammar. See many people who do grammar have their kids write out the sentences for the exercises, which gives them more writing, meaning the writing is snuck in there. But if you're not doing that, you're missing getting daily writing! It doesn't even have to be fancy, just SOMETHING.

 

If your ds10 is not feeling well enough to be able to do SG3 (which is incredibly simple), then he's not going to do any better in FLL3. FLL3 is more abstract than SG3 and includes diagramming. SG3 makes the grammar relatively simple and obvious, pretty much rote. If he's not well enough to think through it, then a grammar change probably won't help, just my small opinion.

 

On the Lyme, are you pursuing all your treatment options? Have you cut out all sugar and white flour from your diets? The getting behind thing is real. Your 12 can go from SG4 to SG6 next year, which will help. The other thing I suggest you consider is hiring a tutor to help with your kids. It could be someone to teach just the littles to read and do their basic math (any high school homeschooled kid would do) or even a regular tutor, someone who comes in and does all the math with your kids two days a week and checks their assignments. I'd do that rather than paying hundreds of dollars for fancy curriculum. It's just something to consider. Things are more likely to get done if you have a person holding them accountable, and your kids are young enough that they would benefit from the personal interaction. I know someone who did CLE plus a tutor with her struggling student this past year and it worked out REALLY well.

Edited March 30, 2009 by OhElizabeth

[Mommy7]

;)

[PeterPan]

Did you see my response yet? It's above your bump. :)

[Mommy7]

:001_smile:

[Mallory]

I agree with OhElizabeth, At this point, I would probably just to the 3R's with everyone.

 

For me grammar would not make the cut. It is easy to pick up when things are better, and if your oldest is 12 then waiting for another year will really be okay for everyone.

 

I also would not worry about kids under 7yo. If one is close, I would wait until fall to start them on anything.

 

If all you did was-

Reading- again, if things are really hard there then just make sure everyone is reading each day or getting a phonics lesson

 

Math-if TT is going to work, go for it, but I also agree with OhElizabeth, that it isn't the only way to do it, especially if $ is going to be a problem.

 

Writing- we love WWE, the text book would work great, or I would guess that your 8, 9, 10 yos would probably be okay in level 1, unless they are ready for dictation which level 2 starts with.

 

But again, you don't have to buy anything, you could just start with copywork for everyone. Get out paper for eveyone and have them bring the book they are reading and write the first sentance (Or two or three if they are up for that). It is really that easy to get writing done everyday. You are going to mention grammer and usuage things- look how the first letter is capitalized in this proper noun, look how these quotes were used, ect. When they can copy exactly what is in the book, getting every letter formed right, every punctuation done, and it looks perfect- and can do 3 sentances or so- start that kid on dication. If they can't even form letters, then that kid will do handwriting, not copywork.

Edited March 31, 2009 by Mallory