Latin instead of English grammar?

[Christy B]

My dd (4th grade) enrolled in a Latin co-op class this year. She has completed her work almost entirely on her own (given that I am CLUELESS when it comes to Latin).

 

From Thanksgiving to St. Patrick's day, she was sick with flu, pneumonia, you name it. So, we fell behind in her work and I decided that either the BJU grammar or the Latin had to GO. I opted to drop the grammar and keep the Latin, because she was doing so well on her Latin tests, it seemed like she must be really learning and comprehending the work.

 

I have been SO IMPRESSED with how much English grammar she has learned in the course of doing the Latin. (She is using Latin for Children, Primer A).

 

Given that I am unable to help her very much, I had anticipated not continuing in the Latin class next year. However, I'm re-thinking that. First of all, the class is hard, and there is HOMEWORK -- and DEADLINES -- and TESTS!!!! I think the discipline of the class alone is worth the effort. I'm also becoming more and more impressed with the value of the vocabulary and grammar. (This is probably a no-brainer for most of you, but I am not really a classical homeschooler, so it's taken me a while to start to see the point in studying Latin.)

 

Here's the thing -- I know my limitations. If we continue in Latin, that will have to be the CORE of our Language Arts program. I could manage some composition and literature in addition to the Latin, but there is no way we could do a formal English grammar along with it.

 

What do you think? Could we continue with Latin only for one more year? She is only going to go through Chapter 23 in LFC this year; I assume they will pick up where they left off next year.

 

If we were to continue with the Latin, is there a particular composition program that would complement the LFC? Or does it not really matter?

 

I'm not sure I'm asking an intelligent question. Maybe I just need to buy a copy of LCC and read it.

[Alana in Canada]

I just read LCC 2nd edition this week. The point about Grammar and Latin is that IF you are persuing Latin from the translation aspect of it then you should get "enough" grammar for learning English as well. If you are doing a "whole reading" or Immersion approach then you probably won't.

 

I'm not sure where Latin for Children falls in the continuum, but it sounds like you've got a method of learning focussed on translation.

[Alana in Canada]

oh--and not to preassure you over into the Classical Camp, but if you choose a writing program like Classical Writing, you'll have even more grammar--it's built right into the program.

[Christy B]

oh--and not to preassure you over into the Classical Camp, but if you choose a writing program like Classical Writing, you'll have even more grammar--it's built right into the program.

 

Well, when one posts a question on a classical homeschooling forum, one can expect answers that suggest classical materials. I don't mind being pointed in the direction of the Camp. :D

 

I *think* I know which writing program you're speaking of; is it the one that starts with Aesop? Was it at one time available on lulu? If so, I think I actually tried it with my older daughter, years ago. It would be worth a second look for this child, she is very different from her older sister.

[latinteach]

I just read LCC 2nd edition this week. The point about Grammar and Latin is that IF you are persuing Latin from the translation aspect of it then you should get "enough" grammar for learning English as well. If you are doing a "whole reading" or Immersion approach then you probably won't.

 

Students do learn grammar when using a reading approach textbook and most certainly when they use the direct immersion approach. The very first chapter of Ecce Romani, for example, teaches in the first chapter: parts of speech (nouns, adjectives, verbs) then moves on to explain subjects, verbs, linking verbs, and complements in the second chapter. Continuing on, chapter four explains transitive and intransitive verbs. Every single chapter has a grammatical lesson. By chapter 17, students are learning about regular and irregular verbs. Chapter 20 is concerned with subordinate clauses and uses of the infinitive. By the end of the first book, students are learning about the wide variety of Latin pronouns and how they work with antecedents.

 

Don't confuse the reading approach to Latin with "whole language." The reading approach means that forms are taught in conjunction with syntax (how the words work with each other to express meaning) and sentence patterns. The grammatical approach isolates forms from syntax, teaching them separately. Reading approach textbooks are written with a grammatical and syntactical plan.

 

As for the direct/immersion approach to Latin, the Lingua Latina series definitely teaches grammar. Of course, it teaches it in Latin. There are definitely grammar lessons in Lingua Latina. There's also an English language companion, written by Jeanne Neumann, that provides English language grammatical commentary to the Latin in Oerberg's textbook.

Edited March 26, 2009 by latinteach

[elegantlion]

There is a lot of grammar in LfC. We dropped English grammar the year ds did LfC-A. It is plenty. Read LCC, keep the Latin and I might even venture to suggest that you learn Latin along with your dd. Read over her shoulder! Latin can be a bit addicting though, so be careful.:D

 

:iagree: We are using LFC A this year. We also did Aesop B and between the two the grammar has been more than sufficient. I agree about it being addicting too. I found myself chanting Latin declensions as I was trying to fall asleep the other night. :lol::lol::lol:

[Christy B]

Well, this is just hysterical. I'm the most anti-Latin, non-classical person I know, and here I am SERIOUSLY discussing Latin. And Latin-centered curriculum, no less.

 

So, say we decide to focus on Latin-centered language arts for 5th grade. What does that look like? Obviously, we'd continue working through LfC Primer. That would cover Latin, grammar, and vocabulary (I'm so impressed with the vocabulary, too, I hadn't mentioned that).

 

Then, we would need to add a composition program, right? As much as I appreciate and understand the suggestion, I just can't make myself like Classical Writing. What are my other options? I'm reluctantly coming around to liking IEW, and I noticed that their themed programs include some grammar as well. Would this work? Maybe pick a themed program to go with our history?

 

Do I understand this correctly -- by studying Latin, we could cover Latin, grammar, vocabulary, and logic in one fell swoop? See, that's well worth the effort, imo. I'd rather do the hard work there than spread out over English grammar, vocabulary, and a thinking skills workbook. (I know, I know, it's been right in front of me all along, lol).

 

Now, at some point between 5th and 7th, we would want to do an English grammar study, right?

 

I'm going to go look at everyone's blogs, too. I read lots of blogs from this forum but I confess I've never, ever, paid any attention to Latin before.

[Alana in Canada]

Do I understand this correctly -- by studying Latin, we could cover Latin, grammar, vocabulary, and logic in one fell swoop?

 

Ayup. Welcome to the dark side! ;)

[plimsoll]

I would strongly recommend reading The Latin Centered Curriculum. And Climbing Parnassus, by Tracy Lee Simmons. And yes, welcome to the dark side.

Edited March 27, 2009 by plimsoll

[Christy B]

Okay, I'm reading the phrases "addictive" and "dark side".

 

You're scaring me, people. I'm being assimilated. :001_unsure:

[mo2]

I haven't started Latin with my daughter yet (she's still learning to read in English, so Latin can wait till next year), but my hubby and I have recently started Latin, and I can tell you that we are learning grammar from it. I vaguely remember things such as direct objects, but cases? I definitely do NOT remember that from school.