mo2 Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Does it matter when your "school year" starts? Since we have to keep track of hours, I thought it might be easiest if I just started recording hours on dd's birthday each year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teresa in MO Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 You need to have 1000 hours logged between July 1 and June 30. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheerMom Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 I thought the school year started on July 1st and ended on June 30th of the next year. I found it somewhere when we started homeschooling a few years ago. http://www.stlouiscatholichomeschool.com/law.html But I found found this on HSLDA so I guess it has changed. http://www.hslda.org/docs/news/hslda/200112031.asp I just use July 1- June 30th just to be on the safe side! I hate reccording hours! This blog is more current. http://missourihomeschool.wordpress.com/2008/09/24/school-year-revisited/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mo2 Posted March 24, 2009 Author Share Posted March 24, 2009 I thought this too until I looked at the HSLDA site again, and it says the requirements must be met within the term the parents establish, so I guess they must have changed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom22ns Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 It is still July 1st through June 30th. There is one regional court that allowed a term other than that, but unless you are in that region (I don't remember which one it is. I just know it isn't mine :), you still must abide by the law which reads July through June. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donna A. Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 It is still July 1st through June 30th. There is one regional court that allowed a term other than that, but unless you are in that region (I don't remember which one it is. I just know it isn't mine :), you still must abide by the law which reads July through June. It doesn't say that in the law, though. http://www.hslda.org/laws/analysis/Missouri.pdf 1,000 hours of instruction. At least 600 hours must be in the five required subjects. At least 400 of the 600 must occur at “the regular home school location.” Mo. Ann. Stat. § 167.031.2(2)(b). These requirements must be met within the term (12 months or less) the parents establish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom22ns Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 http://www.moga.missouri.gov/statutes/C100-199/1670000031.HTM section 4 states 4. A school year begins on the first day of July and ends on the thirtieth day of June following. The court ruling was in the eastern district court. It allowed for the parents to choose their term. The western district still must abide by the July-June statute. What you are quoting from the HSLDA is an interpretation of the law not a complete statement of the law - be careful. I love all the HSLDA does for us and if it were tested in western courts, the result would probably be the same, but I wouldn't want to be brought to court over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donna A. Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Thanks, Debbie! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom2abcd Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Spin-off... So how do you guys record your hours? On the blog listed, she says: <<Through the years I’ve learned since Missouri law doesn’t really define the word hour that there are two schools of thinking- 1. Track the actual time spent on the subject through minutes and hours, or 2. Track the subject as if they are similiar to college credit hours. I prefer the credit hour method for myself simply because I have five children and it would drive me crazy to be tied to a clock. Instead I set aside an hour each day for that subject and check it off as we go. Others “log in†the time they started the subject and than “log off†when they are finished, noting the actual time spent. My suggestion would be to use whatever method works best for your family.>> Has anyone tried her forms that you can download for $3? I've heard The Homeschool Planbook by Sarah Crain is good. Does anyone have a method and forms they could share? The college credit method seems MUCH easier. Would it hold up in the state? (It should, since 1,000 hours at a public school would include a lot of time waiting on others, standing in line, lunch, recess, etc.) TIA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donna A. Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 The college credit method seems MUCH easier. Would it hold up in the state? (It should, since 1,000 hours at a public school would include a lot of time waiting on others, standing in line, lunch, recess, etc.) TIA To answer that specific question, you should probably contact HSLDA. Meanwhile, how we do it at our house: We used the Sarah Crain book up until I figured out an easier method using MFW. The portion of the Sarah Crain book where you log the hours is similar to the forms on that blog. But the Sarah Crain book also includes daily and weekly blocks for writing out your lesson plans, and I don't need that anymore with using MFW. I simply make a copy of the weekly grid for each child, and then write down at the top of the page the total time that we did school that day (i.e., 8:00-1:00). That's 5 hours of school in the 5 core subjects. Or if something happened and we didn't get all the subjects completed that day, I'd just check off what we did do and then write in the times for it. Then for the enrichment subjects shown at the bottom of the weekly grid, I'd add those separately as non-core subjects. I don't count a 2nd grader's time the same way I'd count a 7th grader's or high schooler's. In high school, I plan on using the credit hour method. In 2nd grade, I would count a 20- or 30-minute math lesson as an "hour", for example. I also count all field trips, outside classes, educational videos, etc. And you'll notice in the above example where I said 8-1 is 5 hours... yes, we'd have lunch during that time, and yes I'd include that time because a) my daughters are learning how to prepare and serve meals (home ec is not a core subject, but reading recipes and measuring food and nutritional info can be counted as either math or science), and b) we also do read-alouds during lunchtime.... so school is ongoing through lunch. The public schools count the entire time the student is "present", so I do too. (And they don't even have school/academics "ongoing" through lunch!) When we've used textbooks, I would count each day's lesson in each subject according to what's suggested at the front of the teacher's manual. Most TMs will have a suggested schedule showing how long that "class period" or subject should take. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom22ns Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 I log time to the minute :lol: I guess that is probably pitiful and I'm sure it is unnecessary, but I keep a calendar and I record each subject with its start and stop time, if its core or non-core and what we did (I put lesson plans in advance, then modify to say what I actually did). I then have an ap that grabs that info takes it to a database and logs it all and gives weekly quarterly and yearly reports. My DH is a database programmer and he set it all up for me. I plan my days in advance, then just modify the actual times and actual activities if they changed (which they often do). I count all field trips as non-core and I do count those as the time we leave until the time we get home. The whole time is spent interacting and learning after all. I don't normally count the time we spend eating lunch at home though. We will have far over 1000 hours by the time we're done for the year and already have over 600 core hours, so I don't really worry too much about getting enough hours or trying to get more core hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staci in MO Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 I'm not familiar with Sarah Crain, but this is how it's been explained to me and the justification for it: An hour is a unit of instruction. For example, in public school, the teacher is going to present the math lesson, then the kids are going to work on the lesson. Some kids are going to zip through the worksheet in 15 minutes and be done. Some kids are going to need help from the teacher, etc. Some kids are not going to get finished and will have to take it home that evening. It's still one math lesson for all the kids. I have everything scheduled in Homeschool Tracker Plus as an hour. When the assignment is complete, I check it off, and Homeschool Tracker does the calculating. I've been told that if a lesson takes the kids longer than an hour, you can log it as two hours, but I don't. I also log piano and guitar practice in "real time," because I can't justify 20 minutes of practice as an hour of instruction. An Edu-Track consultant told my friend at a convention that if she really wanted to play it safe, she could count each lesson as 50 minutes, since that's how high schools break up their days, but that an hour would still be acceptable. All that said, we're way over on our hours every year. Even if I started keeping track of everything in "real time" I think I'd still hit 1000 pretty easily. But even with HST, the idea of recording everything down to the minute gives me a headache, so I do it this way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staci in MO Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 My DH is a database programmer and he set it all up for me. My dh is a database programmer, too. It drove him CRAZY when I purchased Homeschool Tracker Plus, since that's basically what he sits and writes all day long. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom2abcd Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 I'm not familiar with Sarah Crain, but this is how it's been explained to me and the justification for it: An hour is a unit of instruction. For example, in public school, the teacher is going to present the math lesson, then the kids are going to work on the lesson. Some kids are going to zip through the worksheet in 15 minutes and be done. Some kids are going to need help from the teacher, etc. Some kids are not going to get finished and will have to take it home that evening. It's still one math lesson for all the kids. I have everything scheduled in Homeschool Tracker Plus as an hour. When the assignment is complete, I check it off, and Homeschool Tracker does the calculating. I've been told that if a lesson takes the kids longer than an hour, you can log it as two hours, but I don't. I also log piano and guitar practice in "real time," because I can't justify 20 minutes of practice as an hour of instruction. An Edu-Track consultant told my friend at a convention that if she really wanted to play it safe, she could count each lesson as 50 minutes, since that's how high schools break up their days, but that an hour would still be acceptable. All that said, we're way over on our hours every year. Even if I started keeping track of everything in "real time" I think I'd still hit 1000 pretty easily. But even with HST, the idea of recording everything down to the minute gives me a headache, so I do it this way. Ugh! I'm too much of a perfectionist.... I want to do it RIGHT, but it's not cut and dried what's "right." Someone explain more about the college credit method please. That messes with my mind that certain ways are OK for high school, but not for grade school, ya know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donna A. Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Ugh! I'm too much of a perfectionist.... I want to do it RIGHT, but it's not cut and dried what's "right." Someone explain more about the college credit method please. That messes with my mind that certain ways are OK for high school, but not for grade school, ya know? Do you really think a 7yo needs to be doing as much "time" on academics as a 15yo? I have no problem with the college credit "hour" for a high schooler or even a middle schooler. But I think it's ridiculous to require the same amount of time for a 10yo and under. That may, in fact, be the reason they've left the definition of an "hour" so vague. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom22ns Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 I don't think a 7 yo needs to be doing the same number of hours as a high schooler. However, I think that is why you have 400 hours of non-core hours to play with. You can count ANYTHING as non-core credit. I have seen long lists of things people use for non-core time. I checked and I didn't keep any of them because my son is older and I'm not looking for hours. I know they include everything from shopping to working on the tree house with dad. Even play time with friends could be considered social skill time. With younger children, your 600 core hours may be more difficult - but that is just over 3 hours a day spread over a typical school year. Use those 400 hours freely to fill in to get to 1000. Think of all the things in life you consider to be part of growing a well rounded child - chores, bible study, outdoor play, really there are no limits. I have myself always frowned a little at parents being "creative" with their hours, but that is because I started homeschooling with a 10 yo. He was ready for a full schedule. I never had a K student that only need 2 hours a day of formal school and I had to be creative to come up with 1000 hours/year. Remember even with little ones, reading is a core subject and the time you spend reading to them counts too - even if it is at bedtime! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom2abcd Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 I have myself always frowned a little at parents being "creative" with their hours! I guess that's what bothers me. I'd prefer using the same record-keeping and standards for all ages. But I can see that the vagueness of the law is a blessing. (It was just so much easier in IL where we didn't have to be so nit-picky;o) It seems strange to me to let them do five minutes of spelling and call it "an hour." I'm sure getting 1,000 actual hours isn't a problem, especially considering time for "Home Ec," recess, lunch, etc. Truly, I have children who could easily get in 1,000 hours in a year just reading if I let them! LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom22ns Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 To me calling a 5 or 15 minute lesson an hour is a lie and I just couldn't do it. If it is technically considered legal and it works for some people, that is fine, I just can't go there. I have a lot easier time counting time my kids spend reading or being read to. That would always have been enough lol. Now that they are older, we really do spend 5-6 hours most days on core academics. It may be more trouble to count and if I had 5+ kids I'm sure I'd round more, but I would still have to count approximate time spent on each activity/subject not count each subject as an hour no matter the time spent. Its just who I am. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donna A. Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 It seems strange to me to let them do five minutes of spelling and call it "an hour." Who does this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 (edited) When I lived in MO I was nit-picky with my hours. It was also our first years of homeschooling and I wanted to know how much real time I spent on education. I rounded my lessons to 15 min intervals. So a 10 minute spelling lesson counted as 15 minutes. At that time I used a simple spiral notebook for lesson plans and keep my hours in there. I had a form I used to fill for hours. I'll see if I can find it in my files. I counted hours all year. If he played in the pool with his friends it was PE. If he watched history channel for an hour it was school. I pretty anal about things but I wanted to follow the letter of the law. I was so glad when we moved and could keep track of days. After 3 years ds sometimes still asks if something is counting toward school. :001_huh: Edited March 26, 2009 by elegantlion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staci in MO Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 It seems strange to me to let them do five minutes of spelling and call it "an hour. I'm sure someone out there is doing that, but I certainly don't take it that far. I lump those things with LA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 I found my hours log. It's a word document and too big to attach here, but I'd be happy to e-mail it to anyone would who like to see it. Please PM me here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donna A. Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 I'm sure someone out there is doing that, but I certainly don't take it that far. I lump those things with LA. Right. For example, 5 minutes of spelling, 15 minutes of handwriting/copywork, 20 minutes of grammar, and a dictation exercise would all count *together* as one hour of Language Arts. In Missouri, each of those LA components aren't required as separate subjects, anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest missourihomeschoolmom Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 http://www.moga.missouri.gov/statutes/C100-199/1670000031.HTM section 4 states 4. A school year begins on the first day of July and ends on the thirtieth day of June following. The court ruling was in the eastern district court. It allowed for the parents to choose their term. The western district still must abide by the July-June statute. What you are quoting from the HSLDA is an interpretation of the law not a complete statement of the law - be careful. I love all the HSLDA does for us and if it were tested in western courts, the result would probably be the same, but I wouldn't want to be brought to court over it. This was great information and clarification! How did you arrive here? I searched and searched and all I got was confused. The date on the Missouri law page being after the case mentioned convinced me the dates STILL stand from July 1 - June 30th. Jonine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom22ns Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 This was great information and clarification! How did you arrive here? I searched and searched and all I got was confused. The date on the Missouri law page being after the case mentioned convinced me the dates STILL stand from July 1 - June 30th. Jonine The Missouri General Assembly Website http://www.moga.missouri.gov Click on Missouri Revised Statutes Then click on View All Missouri Revised Statutes Scroll down to Chapter 167 click Then click on 167.031 That is where we are buried :001_smile: and that was where the link takes you. If you scroll down that page you get to: 4. A school year begins on the first day of July and ends on the thirtieth day of June following. And really, that page has lot of details that aren't listed in the HSLDAs brief overview. I like knowing exactly where I stand, not someone else's interpretation. There are details there that are to my advantage and some like that, that don't matter, its just a matter of bookkeeping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom2abcd Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 Who does this? Someone told me some count it this way. I heard someone from a state hs group speak and she said it's easy enough to get 1,000 hours when you consider reading, home ec, etc. and they suggested you count actual time. The law is vague and they've counted public elementary school's 30-40 minute sessions as an hour, but they'd rather err on the side of caution. It's just a pain to have to keep track of it all, but that's the way it goes. It does put a damper on the joy of reading, etc. to have to use a timer all the time. :001_huh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gevs4him Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 We have used the Sarah Crain plan book for 10 years - I love it ! blessings Lisa wife to Guy, mother to dd18 and ds6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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