# When should I introduce math facts? Help with math please!

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Hi! My younger dd is in Kindergarten but is doing very well in math. We are in Singapore 1A but near the end of 1A. I was hoping to hold her out in 1A so that we could wait and start 1B in the fall but since we school year round I don't think that will happen.

She seems able to hold math in her head more than I would have thought she could. She does problems like 8+8 and 9+7 in her head. Sometimes, if her mood isn't there, we will use some counting frogs or a number line but usually not. We do a calendar daily and I have added some skip counting. We have started with counting by 2's.

She sees math differently than even I do. There was a pattern to finish in Review 4 with 3 objects, then 6, then 9 and the last box blank. At first, she just guessed but then I pointed to the 3 objects and then to the 6 and asked what did they add to 3 to get 6. She immediately understood, cut me off, and said "Oh, then this is 4 3's" and began to fill in the answer box with 4 rows of 3 circles. My plan was to continue adding 3 but she jumped ahead and saw it in groups.

Sooo, sorrry to go on:001_smile:, when should I have her start memorizing her math facts. Or do I even have to? Problems like 20-6 are harder for her to do in her head. We use a number line here? Is this the right approach? I know that as the level goes up she may need the facts memorized to help her with bigger problems. Can you suggest any games or ideas that allow her to look at math this way? Help!

Thanks, all!

Edited by Kfamily
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We use Saxon, and pretty much memorized the math facts until the end of Saxon 3 (which we used in 2nd grade). I really like the way Saxon builds the math facts--I've never seen it done the way they do, and it makes a lot of sense to me.

You can introduce them in groups of related facts (3+2, 2+3, 5-3,5-2) but I prefer to intro addition first, then subtraction, then X then division.

If you are using Singapore, I'd imagine they have their own sequence and way of doing it. Just follow your program.

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Thanks, Chris.

That's part of the problem. Singapore expects drill work to be taken care of from what I've read. This is especially true for the facts.

I guess I'm confused as to when to teach her because she is getting there at a younger age.

Should I let it go for now? Should I start teaching them now? Are there any games or ideas I could use with her to encourage a love of math and to aid me in letting her think about math in different ways? Does that make sense?

Thanks!:001_smile:

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With Singapore she should be memorizing as she goes. But you'd only know that if you got the instructor guide... There is a lot in those guides that is helpful for complete teaching, I wonder why everyone recommends skipping them :confused1:? Anyway, I recommend at least looking through one. As far as specifics for memorizing math facts, here is a page that lets you know which math facts should be memorized and in which book:

http://www.singmath.com/facts.htm

In classes using SM the kids do timed drill sheets each day to cement those math facts. You could use drill sheets generated from the MathUSee website, or DonnaYoung.org or any number of other websites. Also, look into the RightStart math games... they're great!

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Funny, I have the guides for 2 and 3 but not for 1...everyone had me convinced I didn't need them for 1.

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Thanks, Chris.

That's part of the problem. Singapore expects drill work to be taken care of from what I've read. This is especially true for the facts.

I guess I'm confused as to when to teach her because she is getting there at a younger age.

Should I let it go for now? Should I start teaching them now? Are there any games or ideas I could use with her to encourage a love of math and to aid me in letting her think about math in different ways? Does that make sense?

Thanks!:001_smile:

We have only had possession of them for a week, but already I'm seeing the value of the Right Start math card games for cementing "facts" in a fun way that achieves memory retention without resorting to "drill".

Since your daughter is thriving with Singapore, and is confident with math, I'd be very slow as a parent to give into the pressure of feeling like I needed to introduce potentially anxiety creating drill-work.

I'm sure many here (with more time spent using them) can ditto the value of the Right Start games.

Cuisenaire Rod work, and Miquon math (including the 3 teachers books) was the single most important resource to me in inspiring me teach math "differently" and creatively. Miquon makes a wonderful supplement to Singapore IMO for stimulating a love of math.

And the Math Enrichment Programme (MEP) materials (a British adaptation of a highly regarded Hungarian math program) is an extremely interesting, and really different way to teach math, if you are ready to jump into the deep end. My not yet 5 year old has had an amazing experience thus far with MEP. Very challenging, and interesting. And its available to down-load without charge as PDFs.

http://www.cimt.plymouth.ac.uk/projects/mep/default.htm

Bill

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Thank you, Bill, this is exactly what I was concerned about. I didn't want to start drilling math facts in Kindergarten while she was still exploring numbers and interested in manipulating them.( I think I need to work on my eloquence with words:blushing: You were able to express that so much better than I did with my first post.)

I will look into the Rightstart games. I've thought about it before. I also have Miquon,the first book, (orange, I think) that I can get out.

I have looked at MEP too and will give that another look as well.

Thank you!!

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Thank you, Bill, this is exactly what I was concerned about. I didn't want to start drilling math facts in Kindergarten while she was still exploring numbers and interested in manipulating them.( I think I need to work on my eloquence with words:blushing: You were able to express that so much better than I did with my first post.)

I will look into the Rightstart games. I've thought about it before. I also have Miquon,the first book, (orange, I think) that I can get out.

I have looked at MEP too and will give that another look as well.

Thank you!!

This week my bed-time reading (for myself) has been has been Right Start author Joan Cotter's AL Abacus Activity and Math Games books. Quite a number of things she has to say struck me well, including:

The only people who enjoy flash-cards are the people who don't need them :lol:

She also discussed how memory works. And how neuro-chemicals are released in the brain which profoundly affect how we etch those memories in our mind. Her feeling is that "memories" built with the chemical flow that comes with anxiety leads to the least efficient type recall, and the converse is true with memories associated with fun. This makes a lot of sense to me.

Bill

Edited by Spy Car
typo

nevermind

Edited by CMama
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My dd5 and I have been working through RSA and I could not ask for anything better!!!! We purchased the Games book and we've been playing Go to the Dump for the past week. At first, she needed the abacus but quickly set it aside (although I always keep it handy just in case) and has her 10 facts down cold. This morning in the car she asked, "Mommy, tell me if 6+4=10. What about 9+1? And 2+8?..." She kept going until she said all the facts out loud. I cannot recommend the games enough at this early age.

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My dd5 and I have been working through RSA and I could not ask for anything better!!!! We purchased the Games book and we've been playing Go to the Dump for the past week. At first, she needed the abacus but quickly set it aside (although I always keep it handy just in case) and has her 10 facts down cold. This morning in the car she asked, "Mommy, tell me if 6+4=10. What about 9+1? And 2+8?..." She kept going until she said all the facts out loud. I cannot recommend the games enough at this early age.

What a coincidence!

We played "Go to the Dump" last week too (our first week owning the Games). And by the third game the "pairs that make 10" were firmly planted in his head.

And he too was going around talking about 9 and 1 makes 10, and 1 and 9 makes 10, and 2 and 8 makes 10 and....:lol:

What should we play next? :D

Bill

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This should be UNDERSTOOD, not memorized. If she starts counting, stop her and make her think of a better way. She is approaching things correctly.

There should never be any pure memorization of math facts. NEVER. She should practice them to get faster until she "flashes" the answer, and for that drill sheets are good. But she should never, ever be taught to parrot "4+4=8" or anything like it.

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My dd5 and I have been working through RSA and I could not ask for anything better!!!! We purchased the Games book and we've been playing Go to the Dump for the past week. At first, she needed the abacus but quickly set it aside (although I always keep it handy just in case) and has her 10 facts down cold. This morning in the car she asked, "Mommy, tell me if 6+4=10. What about 9+1? And 2+8?..." She kept going until she said all the facts out loud. I cannot recommend the games enough at this early age.

Another vote here, and another perspective....I am using Right Start games, abacus and math balance alongside our regular math program with a special needs child. It is working pretty well.

I think the way Right Start approaches math is good for both ends of the learning spectrum and for the kids in between.

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