How do you teach your child to think?

[mo2]

One of my biggest reasons for hsing is that I think public schools no longer teach kids to think for themselves, rather, they focus on memorizing facts and promoting conformity. But, being a product of the public school system myself, I really am unsure how to go about achieving the goal of open mindedness for my children. How do you teach your children to think for themselves and not just repeat what they hear?

 

Ideas, links, book recs all welcome!

[PeterPan]

They have to have something WITH WHICH to think, a foundation, a background of knowledge that enables them to evaluate and compare. Also, in general, that type of thinking doesn't happen till the middle grades, not really early. That's why homeschooling is so valuable, because you can fill them with truth (your truth, your values, your perspective, whatever) when they are young and then guide them into chosing what they accept for themselves as they start to enter the questioning phase. I'm just starting to see this with my dd, where she's evaluating whether things were good, right, whether they had a good impact, that sort of thing. But it's not really mature and sophisticated. That comes later.

 

If your dc are young, don't worry that you have to push it now. You can have them memorize FACTS and guide them into your truth without turning off their ability to think. They're going to hit a stage developmentally where they start to question and want to decide for themselves, have opinions for themselves, determine things for themselves. The ps do the opposite type of assimilation: assimilate to pc, no truth is absolute. That isn't fair either.

 

If you were to force them to assimilate and not allow open questioning and thinking later, in junior high and high school, that would be a problem and would be putting a basket over their natural development. But in the early stages, it's normal not to have a lot of that and ok. And my dh would say even in the upper grades, that questioning ought to be very guided. They still don't have enough information, enough background, enough wisdom and perspective necessarily to come out to the truth.

Edited March 23, 2009 by OhElizabeth

[mo2]

Yes, my children are still young, I'm just always thinking into the future. ;)

 

Of course at this stage we are memorizing facts. You can't get far in life without knowing how to read, do math facts, etc. But my daughter is also into asking the *big* questions now, about life, death, god, etc. I usually respond with a "Well, this is what I think....but some people think....what do you think?" type of response. I don't want to confuse her, but I also don't want her to think that my way is the only way, you know?

 

Thanks for the great response, Elizabeth.

[Jean in Wisc]

Read, read, read, read. Lots and lots of good and classical literature expands the mind. We were discussing my kids' friends last week and discovered that every "good friend"--you know,the people who love to chat with each other--were readers and thinkers. Those who did not like to read did not have much to say.

 

Teach Logic--informal and formal.

 

When they get in high school give them lots of short essay tests--especially in history.

 

Talk to them about everything that is going on in politics, in the homeschool group, in the history book, at church...everything that touches your life, be sure to dialog with the kids. Tell them your perspective. Talk about other people's perspectives.

 

When your kids have an opinion ask them questions so that they flesh it out--so often kids give an opinion that is vague and adults can't follow the reasoning--and often adults say, "hm-hm," and ignore it. Ask them to explain. Ask questions. Get them use to telling you why they think what they think and on what they are basing their opinions.

 

Share what you believe and compare it with other people's faith, political stance, lifestyle choices, our culture, etc. etc. Explain what and why you believe what you do.

 

When you or the kids have questions no one can answer go immediately to a book or Google it to show them how to figure things out.

 

Talking to them does not have to be formal or planned. Just spend time talking with your kids.

 

My daughter gets rather perplexed at her college classmates. "They need a class in Logic!" They can't reason anything out!"

 

Jean

[Beth in Central TX]

Great post, Jean! Thanks for the reminder to talk WITH my boys; I tend to talk AT them too much.

 

Take care,

~Beth

[Storm Bay]

We do things similarly to OhElisabeth. We do have some strong beliefs which we teach, but as our children get older we do let them know about other beliefs. My ds started asking enormous questions very young, and it can be challenging to know what to answer without causing a lot of confusion if it's something with many POVs.

 

I do think that there have to be some standards you teach your children in life, but that those are your responsibility. Ethical and moral standards may vary, but that's your job to impart. Not too many people are completely amoral, even if some seem very immoral. Children do like the comfort of boundaries.

 

What I strive to do is this:

 

1. Teach my kids the tools to being able to think things through. This is child/age specific (not every child is going to reach the same milestones at the same age).

 

2. Teach them logic skills. In the early years, I do it by teaching math, grammar rules, and gradually add if/then type conversations.

 

3. Expose them to different arguments and help them to be able to work through the logic/illogic of each argument. This is where studying logic in high school and doing proof-based math (Algebra & geometry) can be very helpful.

 

4. I'm completely comfortable being a woman of Very Strong Opinions, and it's already apparent that my dc are the same way. Therefore, I don't feel obligated, at least not in every category, to say what other people think in every discussion. Particularly not when they're little and need comfort and security in certain areas. IMO, People that know how to develop and hold onto something they really believe are the most likely to accomplish change or really go somewhere. My dc don't agree with me on everything already. I want my dc to have minds with strongly developed abilities to think and to be able to hold onto an ethical standard of living that they have spent time thinking through so that they know why they're adhering to it.

[plimsoll]

One of my biggest reasons for hsing is that I think public schools no longer teach kids to think for themselves, rather, they focus on memorizing facts...

 

They still do that? I thought that memorizing facts had been discredited as another example of oppressive and elitist rote learning.

 

I agree with the other posters so far. I think that logic, math, grammar, latin, greek, music and science all teach a person to think logically, organize their thoughts, and argue persuasively, as well as providing the tools that can help a person recognize faulty reasoning when presented with it.

[Greta]

This is a great discussion, and I wanted to thank the OP for bringing it up, and those who have responded. My first thought was "logic, logic, logic!" :001_smile: I appreciate all the additional insights.

[mooooom]

When my kids were little, and would come to me with a problem, I would always ask them what they thought they should do about it first. Often, they would think for a minute and come up with a pretty good answer on their own, if not, we would think it through out loud together. My MIL almost fell over the day she saw my 4yo go to the drawer, get out the tape and fix a game box on his own. She said that that was not a normal thing. I thought she was weird.

 

My kids never ask for help now unless they really need it. Today I find my dd 13, copying down one of my recipes (that she's never made) down for one of our neighbors (apparently they were discussing lemon pies the other day..) I like kids that can do things for themselves.

[Alana in Canada]

Many of you are describing what I would call Socratic dialogue.

When it comes to defending an idea (and when your children are old enough to handle the challenge) keep asking them questions.

[laughing lioness]

Random thougths: I was going to mention the Socratic method as well. Ask them questions, engage their frontal lobe. When you give directives and they are to just respond it doesn't force the child to engage higher level reasoning skills. When you ask questions and they have to respond to the question, it gets their brain activity in the frontal lobe- they "own" more. IEW has resources that will teach you this method.

Writing skills are logic/thinking skills- teach them the rules of writing, grammar, spelling, what makes a good sentence, etc. (FLL, IEW, Shurley Grammar, OMT, etc).

Scientific inquiry requires thinking skills. The scientific model and research does this as well.

Frankly, I learned hardly anything by memory in government schools, was not expected to know how to memorize and little was required. I believe that teaching our kids to memorize and giving them vast quantities of information from which to draw on from memory is an important first step in learning to think. They have to have something to think about!

In the Jewish tradition boys were freuqently expected to have the Pentatuch (first 5 books of the Bible) memorized by heart by their Bar Mitzvah (age 13) Look at L.I. Wilder recounts of what was expected in grammar school. It is phenomenol what our kids can do.

I highly recommend Critical Thinking Press workbooks, and the Logic materials through MP and Logos.

Literary Analysis- lots of tools for this from VP, Logos, IEW.

Narration is a great way for the kids to start thinking about what they've heard.

Drama and simple skits gives the kids an opportunity to "own" material and think about it in a fresh way. We did a play on WWII this Jan and the kids involved were really overwhelmed by the tragedy of it all. That wasn't what I hoped to have happen and we took frequent laugh and chocolate breaks, but it did highlight for me that drama is a way for the kids to engage and thiink about material in a deeper way than they do normally.

[Melinda]

I agree with a lot of what's already been said. Mine are still little, but when they come to us with questions, we always ask, "what do *you* think the answer is?" first. We also use the KONOS materials heavily and I hope that will help them with this.

[laughing lioness]

I just finished reading The Promise by Chaim Potok. He describes the learnign that takes place in the Hebrew schools mid-last century in Brooklyn. I quoted a bit of it on my blog: http://goldengrasses.blogspot.com/2009/03/studium-studii.html

 

He is describing that while the students were doing this intensive study of the Talmud many of them were also earning advanced degrees in math, psychology, etc. All I can say is "Wow!" and 3 cheers for memory work!

[Penny]

Yes, my children are still young, I'm just always thinking into the future. ;)

 

Of course at this stage we are memorizing facts. You can't get far in life without knowing how to read, do math facts, etc. But my daughter is also into asking the *big* questions now, about life, death, god, etc. I usually respond with a "Well, this is what I think....but some people think....what do you think?" type of response. I don't want to confuse her, but I also don't want her to think that my way is the only way, you know?

 

This sounds like you are not sure of your beliefs, or why you have them. (For many years I really didn't know what I believed or why. Having children forced me to dig deep and answer the big questions for myself. The most important way I influence my children is not by giving them a great education, but by giving them a valid world view.) I would encourage you to dig very deeply into what you believe, and why your beliefs make sense, are logical, and are not just feelings. Your child will question deeply the meaning of life and other world view questions, and you should be able to help guide them on their way. You should also be able to respond to other beliefs and why you do NOT believe the same way. All beliefs cannot be true. They simply exclude each other.

 

Just some thoughts and I hope they are not offensive! I mean only the best.

[WTMindy]

Read, read, read, read. Lots and lots of good and classical literature expands the mind. We were discussing my kids' friends last week and discovered that every "good friend"--you know,the people who love to chat with each other--were readers and thinkers. Those who did not like to read did not have much to say.

 

Teach Logic--informal and formal.

 

When they get in high school give them lots of short essay tests--especially in history.

 

Talk to them about everything that is going on in politics, in the homeschool group, in the history book, at church...everything that touches your life, be sure to dialog with the kids. Tell them your perspective. Talk about other people's perspectives.

 

When your kids have an opinion ask them questions so that they flesh it out--so often kids give an opinion that is vague and adults can't follow the reasoning--and often adults say, "hm-hm," and ignore it. Ask them to explain. Ask questions. Get them use to telling you why they think what they think and on what they are basing their opinions.

 

Share what you believe and compare it with other people's faith, political stance, lifestyle choices, our culture, etc. etc. Explain what and why you believe what you do.

 

When you or the kids have questions no one can answer go immediately to a book or Google it to show them how to figure things out.

 

Talking to them does not have to be formal or planned. Just spend time talking with your kids.

 

My daughter gets rather perplexed at her college classmates. "They need a class in Logic!" They can't reason anything out!"

 

Jean

 

:iagree: Good answer, Jean!!!!

[woolybear]

One thing I like to do is to let them make decisions on what projects to do, what to put on their timelines, etc.

 

Also, a good website to check out is http://www.kidswhothink.blogspot.com

 

 

Woolybear

[Classical Katharine]

Know what you believe, but become familiar with what others think and why they think it--both contemporary and older thinkers.

 

Teach your children that "he who trusts in his own heart is a fool"--everyone has biases, and everyone's thinking often veers away from what is true and rational, because we are finite and perverse. Teach them that this includes every one of us even if we have embraced a source of wisdom or revelation we believe to be reliable and true. It may well be reliable and true. The problem lies with us.

 

I'm not suggesting that nothing is true and we can know nothing, just that we should teach children to carefully distinguish between things where we can be certain and things where we can't be. But the universality of biases does mean we should take ourselves with an especially large grain of salt. Why do certain views appeal to me, in particular? Not necessarily because of a fully rational or objective analysis. In some cases, it's because of my own weaknesses, limitations, or deviant desires. We should know that about ourselves, and children can start to learn it early. ("Why do you believe all children your age should be allowed to wear X? Because you want to wear X. Why do you want to wear X? Because your friend has X? Because your favorite store carries X? Does your friend having/the store carrying X really, actually, necessarily mean all children your age should have X? Should those facts really make you want X? Where do we go to understand what we should and shouldn't wear? What we should and shouldn't want?") I have to remind myself that self is a very capable lawyer, in children as well as in adults!

 

At the same time teach them about what some call "common grace." Someone "of my religion" is not always right, because of remaining ignorance or sin, and someone from the other guy's religion, or no religion, is not always wrong, because of "common grace." (There should be a better term for this, but I'll use this one.) This affects positions and thinking as well as it does more obviously ethical issues. (Your children might be too young for the term, but you can always model the point of view.)

 

Likewise, someone from my party is not always right. Etc.

 

Teach your children what "simplistic" means. Help them understand that many problems are complex and many discussions are complex. We like to reduce things to very simple terms because that makes life simple for us, but it isn't always accurate. Begin with what's simple and true and certain when children are young, but move on to talking about harder problems that aren't so easily reduced or summarized. (Simple: You shall not murder. Harder: How much fluid should you give to someone dying of stomach cancer who is thirsty but who will vomit up what he drinks if he is given enough to slake his thirst, and whose stomach may be torn by vomiting? [Real life example, fresh on my mind.])

 

Once they're old enough, teach them what a "straw man" is, and that it isn't playing fair to set one up and then destroy it.

 

Teach them to look for motives and agendas. (Advertising is an ever-ripe field, but motives and agenda affect curricula and scholarship too!)

 

Eventually have them read competing views on a given topic. "He that comes first seems just, but his neighbor comes and searches him out" applies not just to judicial proceedings, but to discussions. We all have a tendency to find the first fellow plausible, but the second fellow may have noticed things about the first fellow's arguments that we did not. Also, "in a multitude of counselors there is safety." Once they are teenagers, have them read not just people you think you'll agree with, but people you know you won't agree with--only do it with them. And talk about it.

 

(Primary sources are important, but young people are as likely to misinterpret them as anyone else is, so competing secondary sources can be useful, too.)

 

I second all the posters who said talk, talk, talk. And listen, too, especially as your children get older. By listening you'll be better able to tailor wisdom to their needs.

 

Read books and talk about them, watch movies and analyze them. (What effect did the work produce on me, and why? How did the author/producer do that?) And study logic with them--deductive and inductive.

 

You asked a great question!

[Rosie_0801]

I found Edward de Bono's "How to teach your child to think" a useful book.

 

Rosie

[KristenS]

One thing I do is just model thinking, out loud. If the kids ask a question, instead of just giving an answer, I'll try to vocalize the thinking process. Just like I model folding laundry or writing the alphabet.

 

Another thing (a strategy that cropped up during the tantrum years, LOL) was reasoning, and bargaining. If my son was insistent about something that couldn't be done (but was not yet being rude!), I'd make a counter-proposal. He would have to listen, and then tell me if he agreed with it or disagreed with it. If he didn't, it was his turn to come up with a solution. It taught him how to compromise, and how to think things through. For example, no, we couldn't play one more game before bedtime, but if it mattered that much to him, perhaps we could write it on the calendar to be sure it got played the next day. Those sorts of things. (Not giving in to tantrums ... teaching him that there were ways to think to avoid the tantrums.)

 

I love all the replies to this thread. It's a great topic.

[KathyBC]

Random thougths: I was going to mention the Socratic method as well. Ask them questions, engage their frontal lobe. When you give directives and they are to just respond it doesn't force the child to engage higher level reasoning skills. When you ask questions and they have to respond to the question, it gets their brain activity in the frontal lobe- they "own" more. IEW has resources that will teach you this method.

 

Could you point me towards the IEW resources?

Thanks!

[Spy Car]

My perspective? Children are born with the ability to think. We can (and should) nurture them with experiences and education. And help sharpen their skills of analysis, and critical thought. And provide an education in morals and ethics. And on, and on.

 

But telling them we have THE TRUTH, and ramming everything they are fed though the lens of our world-view, and thinking they will be "independent thinkers" later in life is folly. That sort of approach is simply "indoctrination", and an indoctrination is the opposite of thinking with ones own mind.

 

Bill

Edited March 24, 2009 by Spy Car

[laughing lioness]

IEW resources:

1. Windows to the World: An Intro to Lit Analysis.

2. Teaching the Classics, with DVD.

3. Teaching the Classics - world view supplement, with DVD - the seminar also includes a brand new Socratic List of 113 discussion questions designed to help you analyze any book.

4. Freedoship Education Resources, including Gatto, De Mille and Pudewa.

 

I have found that many of the IEW resources have helped me to develop my understanding of the classical method. Lmk if you have other questions about IEW.

[Lori D.]

- read read read read a ton out loud together

- talk about everything

- ask them "how" "why" and "what do you think" questions

- together look for answers when they ask questions you can't answer

- follow "bunny trails" when they come up during school (and anytime of day!)

- explore with nature walks, and within your own backyard and around the block

- play lots of different board and card games together

- include lots of discovery and interest-driven learning into the school day (experiments, hands-on, field trips)

- do a wide variety of critical thinking puzzles, games, etc. starting early on

- do some formal logic later on

- together discuss and analyze films, TV shows, literature, history, etc.

- together look for/discuss fallacies in ads, political speeches/decisions

- together look for/discuss consequences to choices (in real life, but also films, literature, political/historical choices)

- together read about/discuss comparative religions and worldview studies in middle/high school -- ideas have consequences!

- pray for wisdom and guidance -- for yourself as well as for your children

[Reya]

You can start with a GOOD, THOUGHTFUL math program that demands thinking from kids and not just regurgitation. Math is something that requires analysis from the beginning, not something that requires a huge amount of content before analysis can be performed (like ESPECIALLY history and to a lesser extent science).

 

If you begin treating mathematics like something to memorize and not understand, the majority of children will never be good in math. They won't magically develop analysis later--it's been trained systematically out of them. Instead, they will choke.

 

Analysis of literary texts at the child's level is also simple. It begins by talking about a character's motivation and builds over the grades into something with much greater depth and significance. But all that is needed in the beginning is a familiarity with the book at hand.

 

In science, it begins with TRUE experiments. Not craft projects. Not demonstrations. Not activities. EXPERIMENTS. That is, where the child uses what is already known to make a hypothesis, and then an experiment is built (as much by the child as possible) around that hypothesis. Experiment kits are fun, but they aren't actually EXPERIMENTS very often. They're usually just activities.

 

History takes a much broader base to make any analysis of consequence. The problem with history in the schools isn't that they don't want kids to think but that they ask EXTREMELY high-level questions that require enormous amounts of expertise and then reward students for answers based on very little knowledge and a whole lot of invention, making things up, and gut feel. If the questions were worded, "What kind of information would you have to know to be able to determine....?" they would be fine. But they're not. And the result is an enormous groups of staggeringly ignorant people who have no desire to change their ignorance because they think they already know all the answers.

 

Historical analysis should be limited to an examination of what the child knows and can easily deduct. You can ask a child why they think that refrigerators and washing machines were the first popular appliances if the child has learned about previous laundry and preservation techniques. You can't ask a child about why it was that America was rich and most of Latin America poor by 1900 when the reverse was the case in 1700.

 

I firmly believe that what we call intelligence consists mostly of the ability to think abstractly in order to make connections and solve problems--essentially, analytical capacity. The gifted child remembers more because he understands more--and understanding is not memorization but analysis. It is easy to remember that which we understand. If we don't understand it, though, and have not woven our existing knowledge through it in order to make a full fabric of everything that we know, it's GONE.

 

The naturally most intelligent analyze continuously and compulsively from the youngest ages. But while many studies have confirmed the impossibility of raising someone's IQ significantly through environment, I do think that it would be a benefit to any child to be taught to think like a "smart kid."

 

Besides, life's a LOT more interesting that way!

Edited March 24, 2009 by Reya

[mo2]

But telling them we have THE TRUTH, and ramming everything they are fed though the lens of our world-view, and thinking they will be "independent thinkers" later in life is folly. That sort of approach is simply "indoctrination", and an indoctrination is the opposite of thinking with ones own mind.

 

Bill

 

 

:iagree:

[mo2]

This sounds like you are not sure of your beliefs, or why you have them. (For many years I really didn't know what I believed or why. Having children forced me to dig deep and answer the big questions for myself. The most important way I influence my children is not by giving them a great education, but by giving them a valid world view.) I would encourage you to dig very deeply into what you believe, and why your beliefs make sense, are logical, and are not just feelings. Your child will question deeply the meaning of life and other world view questions, and you should be able to help guide them on their way. You should also be able to respond to other beliefs and why you do NOT believe the same way. All beliefs cannot be true. They simply exclude each other.

 

Just some thoughts and I hope they are not offensive! I mean only the best.

 

Thanks for your response, but I'm unsure why you got the impression that I am unsure of my beliefs. It is because I share with my kids that there are other equally valid beliefs out there, or because I said "I think" rather than "I know,"?

[Storm Bay]

Thanks for your response, but I'm unsure why you got the impression that I am unsure of my beliefs. It is because I share with my kids that there are other equally valid beliefs out there, or because I said "I think" rather than "I know,"?

 

I think your post (the second one you made in this thread) could be read different ways. I interpreted it the way you just explained, even though in my answer I showed that I handle things a bit differently. I took your first question at face value asking what different people do to help our kids think, and, naturally, that's going to vary.

 

I fully expect there to be differences in opinion, and hope that this thread doesn't digress into a heated debate on the right way to do this. I was quite enjoying reading how different people do this and seeing some commonalities amongst them as well as the differences.

 

Although I didn't put it in my first response, I do tie all of this into all of my dc's subjects. Even in spelling, I suppose, since I spell the Canadian way & my dc spell the American way, so we can even discuss how that all happened, and whether or not there is one "right" spelling ;) Just about everything in life can lead to helping our kids learn to think, or develop their inherent thinking abilities. Personally, I think some kids are born hardwired to question everything and some are more compliant, so each of us has to work with our dc. Fun, isn't it? Except when it's not, and you have a dc who is questioning everything and accepts nothing just because you say so. It can make even simple things such as going to bed into huge events, at least for a stage.

[Reya]

Thanks for your response, but I'm unsure why you got the impression that I am unsure of my beliefs. It is because I share with my kids that there are other equally valid beliefs out there, or because I said "I think" rather than "I know,"?

 

There cannot be equally valid beliefs if the assumptions and results of these beliefs are contradictory.

 

Differences of opinion exist in many areas. In some areas, they are simply opinion and no more (Blue Bell's Dutch Chocolate Ice Cream is the best in the world!) or some answers are right some of the time or for some people and wrong some other part of the time or for some other people (Homeschooling is the best way to raise a child.). And sometimes, there is a correct answer and a wrong one, 100% of the time (Honor killings are wrong.). Understanding the difference and how to tell the difference is critical to raising a thoughtful child. The mere existence or acceptance of different opinions validates none of them.

 

I think this is an important point because teaching a child to think begins with these kinds of evaluations. We can't raise morally sound adults who believe that their every opinion has the full weight of truth behind it, while we also can't raise morally sound adults who think everything is an "opinion."

 

We actually talk about this a LOT, as children tend to need to negotiate these values within themselves as they develop.

Edited March 24, 2009 by Reya

[Reya]

My perspective? Children are born with the ability to think. We can (and should) nurture them with experiences and education. And help sharpen their skills of analysis, and critical thought. And provide an education in morals and ethics. And on, and on.

 

But telling them we have THE TRUTH, and ramming everything they are fed though the lens of our world-view, and thinking they will be "independent thinkers" later in life is folly. That sort of approach is simply "indoctrination", and an indoctrination is the opposite of thinking with ones own mind.

 

Bill

 

I don't think you can raise or teach a child without indoctrinating him, nor is it the opposite of thought. You should be conscious and careful of what you indoctrinate a child in (no lying! no hitting!--THAT is indoctrination that I full participate in!) because if you pretend that you don't do these things, the indoctrination will still happen, but you'll think you're not, so you'll actually indoctrinate them with things that, thinking about it, you shouldn't or not indoctrinate them with things that are very important that you do.

[jonesloonybin]

My perspective? Children are born with the ability to think. We can (and should) nurture them with experiences and education. And help sharpen their skills of analysis, and critical thought. And provide an education in morals and ethics. And on, and on.

 

But telling them we have THE TRUTH, and ramming everything they are fed though the lens of our world-view, and thinking they will be "independent thinkers" later in life is folly. That sort of approach is simply "indoctrination", and an indoctrination is the opposite of thinking with ones own mind.

 

Bill

 

:iagree::iagree:

[mo2]

I think your post (the second one you made in this thread) could be read different ways. I interpreted it the way you just explained, even though in my answer I showed that I handle things a bit differently. I took your first question at face value asking what different people do to help our kids think, and, naturally, that's going to vary.

 

I fully expect there to be differences in opinion, and hope that this thread doesn't digress into a heated debate on the right way to do this. I was quite enjoying reading how different people do this and seeing some commonalities amongst them as well as the differences.

 

 

I see what you are saying. It is so hard to get people's full meaning over the internet.

 

I am really loving the responses to this thread. It's great to see all the different ideas and viewpoints, and I'm finding something good in all of them, even the ones I don't agree with 100%.

[starwarsmomma]

If anyone is interested, I came across some "games" to problem solve.

(this was sent to me for cub scouts, but it's really great for anyone!)

 

PROBLEM 1: Rescue!

 

Place a doll on the floor about eight feet from a line. Behind the line, have a pile of 18 to 15 three-foot garden canes or similar sticks, string, and scissors. Also have some decoy materials. Give the denner this message:

A child is in danger of drowning in this alligator infested river. Save her! Use any materials you see.

Possible Solution: Build a triangle or rectangle with the garden canes and string, maneuver it behind the child, and pull her to safety.

Scoring: Five points for trying hard, 10 for making the rescue.

 

PROBLEM 2: Move the Poison.

 

Have an empty quart soda bottle standing on the floor. Nearby are a drinking straw, a length of string, and as decoys a wooden slat, a fork, and a length of heavy wire. Give the denner this message:

There has been an accident in which a powerful poison has spilled out of this bottle and down its sides. The bottle must be moved to the table as soon as possible. Do not touch it or you will be burned badly. Use any materials you see here.

Two Possible Solutions: Use the drinking straw as shown in the Lift a Bottle trick (page 64, Den Chief Handbook). Or make an overhand knot in the string, slip it over the bottle, and tighten it.

Scoring: Five points for trying hard, 10 for moving the bottle without touching it

 

PROBLEM 3: Deliver the Medicine.

 

Mark off a canyon on the floor. Place a coffee can inside the canyon, about eight feet from the edge. In a pile along the outside edge, have two 10 foot lengths of molding or other light strips of wood. Have other items as decoys. Give the denner a jacks ball or table tennis ball and tell him it represents a first aid kit. Also give him this message:

One of your den members is far down in this canyon. He has suffered a bad cut in a fall and needs first aid supplies. It would take hours to climb down to reach him where the coffee can is. Invent a way to get the first aid supplies to him quickly.

One Solution: Have den members hold the molding strips together to form a trough to the can. Roll the ball down the trough.

Scoring: Five points for trying hard, 10 for getting the first aid kit safely to the the victim.

[Nan in Mass]

I think GRIN that thinking can be taught in many ways. Obviously LOL. Someone from a hunter-gatherer society can think, but if they are presented with a calculus problem, they aren't going to be able demonstrate that ability. I think that thinking can be taught through any of the school subjects. I feel like I learned to think in geometry class, so I am going to do a proper proof-based geometry book with son. Computer programming didn't hurt, either.

 

Reya's post explains why I have refused to even discuss history with my children. I know much less history than they do, and they don't know all that much. They do history using TWTM recommendations (more or less) but they do it on their own. Sigh. This is not the subject I am using to teach them to think. But people who are knowledgable about history and who manage to teach their children enough of it (depth and breadth) can use history to teach thinking.

 

TWEM explains how to learn to think using literature. We have done this and it works!!! I am amazed. My children read much more thoughtfully than I did. I do, too, since we've been doing great books together. My son watched a movie with the scouts and came home and told me all about it. The telling was a very nice WEM analysis of it. TWTM/TWEM method of doing literature works to teach thinking. I have found TWTM recommendations to be good preparation for doing great books with TWEM in high school.

 

People who like to write use writing to think. Writing about something demands that you organize the information and then do something with it, in other words, think about it. Speech and art and music and dance are like writing. Communicating anything requires thinking about it. Classical education originally was designed to give political power, wasn't it? Which meant persuasive writing and public speaking and analysis of history and politics and government? And watertight verbal arguments? (Does this emphasis on language arts and logic and history sound familiar GRIN?) I am always suspicious of words because I think in skilled hands they can be twisted and turned. I'm not convinced they are as infallable as logic courses (or even geometry proofs) would have us believe.

 

Philosophy teaches thinking, as long as one does more than just read and memorize what is being read, as long as one asks, "Do I also believe this?" and "How would that affect this decision?"

 

Science can be used to teach thinking, if the student makes up his own experiments and analyzes data and solves problems and puts the all the information together to draw conclusions. In other words, if the student "does" science, does not just do a science book (laughing about that post on quotes).

 

And so on, and so forth...

 

Ideally, you would teach all your subjects at the thinking level, but I, anyway, don't have time to do this. In a good school, where each teacher has lots of experience teaching in his area of expertise, probably all the subjects could be taught at the thinking level. I have no expertise and no experience. Therefore, being practical, I only try to teach my children to think in one subject and leave them themselves to apply it to other subjects. This seems to have worked fine. And really, I think that my children would have learned to think even if I didn't do this. My family has an annoying tendency to point out the other side of every single argument and every single other person's point of view whenever anyone complains about anything. And I can't imagine my father, with whom my children spend scads of time, letting them get away with not learning to think. He is always asking them how they would do this or how they would solve that problem. I am worried about getting mine to think creatively. Anybody have suggestions for that?

-Nan

Edited March 24, 2009 by Nan in Mass

[angela in ohio]

What Jean said! She's a wise woman with the experience to know what she is talking about...

[Kelli in TN]

What Jean said! She's a wise woman with the experience to know what she is talking about...

 

:iagree:

 

 

And Nan in Mass too!

 

Great posts from both of these wise ladies.:001_smile:

[kalanamak]

How do you teach your children to think for themselves and not just repeat what they hear?

 

 

I'm with you!

 

I think, as in many things, example is the best teacher. I try to do the above myself.

[Linda (Australia)]

Thankyou, joyfulheart, for the suggestion of the games! I've been trying to find games like this - to make the thinking skills very 'practical'.

 

Does anyone know of a book which may have more of this type of thing? Games that encourage thinking skills?

 

Thanks!

[jabuford]

http://brainist.com/thinking_game.htm

 

I did a search on thinking games and got this URL. I didn't go far into it. But it has concentration games, strategy games, thinking games and lots more.

[Classical Katharine]

Mo2, since you are thinking ahead, you got answers (including from me) that have as much to do with what to do in high school as with what to do now. I don't know if a question or thread can be cross-posted after the fact, but I think a lot of high school board users would probably enjoy reading this one.

[Storm Bay]

I don't know if a question or thread can be cross-posted after the fact, but I think a lot of high school board users would probably enjoy reading this one.

 

 

That's what tags are for :). I've added two to categories that already exist (critical thinking & logic).

[mo2]

Mo2, since you are thinking ahead, you got answers (including from me) that have as much to do with what to do in high school as with what to do now. I don't know if a question or thread can be cross-posted after the fact, but I think a lot of high school board users would probably enjoy reading this one.

 

 

Yes, I got some great answers. Thanks to everyone who contributed to what turned out to be a good discussion. Basically for now (at age 7) my plan is to read, read, read, and discuss, discuss, discuss (note that discussing includes listening as well as talking!). We'll try to lay a good foundation in all the basic subjects. Then when dd gets a little older, we'll do lots of logic, Latin, and reading of great literature.

 

I'm actually reading a book called Little Big Minds that is about introducing philosophy to elementary students. It has some great ideas and I think it is going to be fun to incorporate into our studies next year.

[Nan in Mass]

You know, I think one of the biggest reasons that great books worked so well for us is that we read the books aloud together. That made discussing and commenting on them very, very easy and immediate. Just a thought...

[mo2]

You know, I think one of the biggest reasons that great books worked so well for us is that we read the books aloud together. That made discussing and commenting on them very, very easy and immediate. Just a thought...

 

 

This is what I plan on doing. I have never read a lot of the great books, so I think it will be nice for us to read them as a family and then just let the discussions happen.

[Storm Bay]

This is what I plan on doing. I have never read a lot of the great books, so I think it will be nice for us to read them as a family and then just let the discussions happen.

 

Another good book as they get older is Philosophy for Kids. Each chapter asks some good questions first, then has a summary of a philosophy of someone that ties into the questions posed. We've been neglecting that book lately, but I've done some of that with my eldest so far.