So, why have so many of us strayed from hsing as described in the WTM?

[Kim in SouthGa]

I spent most of the night and early morning hours rereading sections of WTM (my old beat-up 1999 edition). It seems so simple. How have I made it so hard? Why do I spend hours researching curriculum? Why do I keep trying to make things fit into WTM instead of just going by the book?

For example, literature curriculums are discussed so frequently here. But in WTM (at least the 1999 edition) everything we need to know is all laid out. So why do I have CLE 3 and 5 on my list for next year for the youngers, and why am I still trying to decide on a program for my oldest?

 

I'm not trying to start anything, so please no bashing;) If you are following WTM as laid out, I would love to hear about your experience and how you have squashed the temptation to try all the new programs out there. Maybe you are like me and are trying to decide if you can really hs the WTM way, as laid out in the book, and if that is the best route to go with your children. I think I am particularly drawn to the history and geography portion, since this seems to be the subject that I spend the most money and time on. I was all set on Sonlight (after crashing and burning with TOG this year), and now I'm not sure. Is it worth all that money? Would the money be better spent on field trips and museum memberships?

I also confess I printed off 60 PAGES of stuff from the high school board last night, so maybe I am just freaking out and all is well.:D

[WTMindy]

Your post if a bit funny to me because I just spent weeks researching different writing programs (especially CW) and really thinking about the pro-gym and other methods and I came around to the conclusions that were there for me all along in WTM! But, it was a big A-ha moment for me! :-)

 

For me, WTM is all about the ideas and the concepts, but not necessarily the specifics. I would say that in the 7 years of our homeschooling, we have not deviated from the ideas of WTM, but I haven't used all the same curriculum suggestions that they recommend. The ones I choose have the same goals and values, just a little different way of getting there. For example, I use TOG for history for the second rotation. I think that the goals of TOG are exactly what is talked about in WTM (reading, thinking, writing) and so we use that rather than the outlining of the histroy encyclopedia. But, we do work on outlining. And we do timelines. Etc...

 

I just sat down with my WTM again and looked at the rhetoric section for the first time to do some longer-term planning and I was again struck with what a great resource WTM has been for us. I'm looking forward to buying the new version too!!!!

[Beth in SW WA]

Why do I keep trying to make things fit into WTM instead of just going by the book?

 

"The book" hasn't worked for us in every instance. I look at is more as a pick-and-choose-what-works-for-you NOT a one-size-fits-all. She gives great options and we have chosen many of them. But not all her recommendations work for my kids, nor me, every time.

 

For instance, for writing CW has been a great fit. For math, Chalkdust rules!!

 

SWB's book is a manual to glean and learn from. We're not all mini-SWB's w/ mini-Bauer children. Our needs are different. She would not intend we follow it all to a "t" -- How boring would that be? :)

 

Her book is a valuable tool. I resonate deeply w/ her philosophies. She helped change the way I view education (for myself AND my kiddos). Her research on curriculum has saved me hours. Basically, she rocks!

 

Thanks Susan!

[Emmy]

We're not all mini-SWB's w/ mini-Bauer children.

 

I would venture to guess that even Susan's children don't follow WTM to a T - I seem to remember her making comments a time or two about how each of them have schooled a bit differently according to their own individuality.

 

To the original post....I do occasionally find that I'm making things "too hard" when I stray from WTM. Sometimes when I'm floundering with one subject or another I'll return to my copy of WTM to read the section on that subject and find - aha! This is really not that big a deal. :)

 

I think where I tend to veer off from WTM is when I need additional help in teaching the subject at hand (sometimes I think WTM assumes *I* know more than I do), when the method doesn't work for my child (spelling workout comes to mind...), or when I can't handle that much on my plate at the moment. Oh yeah and sometimes it's just fun to curriculum shop. :p

[Kim in SouthGa]

So in the newer version of WTM, does SWB still recommend Writing Strands? I have tried it 3 or 4 different times and just cannot stomach it. And I just left their website again. We are using Jump In with my oldest, and it is ok, but he is still struggling. I am hesitant to try Classical Writing again (we tried it years ago when it first came out) because my son hates Aesop and fairy tales. I am thinking of IEW, but it is so expensive. He really needs help making his writing interesting! He loves to write sentences like "The boy went to the store." Not up to par for an almost 8th grader, I'm thinking!

 

For those of you that use a history curriculum, do you follow SWB's guidelines of outlining and notebook set up? Has anyone tried this with a traditional textbook? My 10 dd loves the Abeka stuff for some reason:0) I had an old 6th grade history text that someone gave me that I was putting in the give-away pile, and when she saw it she said she wanted to use it next year.

 

Which leads me to another question: How much input do you let your kids have on the school materials you use? I can see my son balking at the notebook set up described in WTM, and all the outlining, but I think it would be really good for him.

[Lovedtodeath]

Well.... I am trying to get all of the WTM recommendations in a box (no library trips) it is not cheap, let me tell you. Sonlight is less expensive. So... something to keep in mind.

 

I think it is a good idea to do what TWTM says and then only fix what's broken (if anything is)! The problem is getting sig lines and catalogs that are so pretty put in front of our noses. LOL

[Lovedtodeath]

Ds will do a great books study a la WTM but he will concentrate on Science and the scientists of those periods in history. That is no less WTM than someone who is more history focused.

 

That is exactly what WTM recommends. Remember? "The Specialist".

[Larissa]

the fact that there is soooo much more to choose from than there was in 1999.

I stuck much closer to the plan when I first started. but now I know about more and thus have to make more decisions.

Larissa homeschooling 5 in NJ

[Harriet Vane]

I follow most of SWB's suggestions, and have been thankful that they have worked so well for my family.

 

We do not do her science suggestions. Her grammar stage recommendations involve a lot of labs and scheduling assignments independently, and I am simply not a hands-on lab kinda mom. Science is also not my strong suit at all. Therefore it made more sense for me to buy the lab experiences for my kids through a local co-op, and work with a more traditional textbook curriculum with more structure.

 

It comes down to doing what works well for your particular family. I am thankful that SWB and JW explain the philosophy so thoroughly in the book so that when a specific curriculum suggestion does not fit us well, I still have the tools to choose an acceptable alternative.

[Haiku]

how you have squashed the temptation to try all the new programs out there.

 

I don't like to be told what to do, so a packaged curriculum or program doesn't work for me. The reason I love TWTM is because it tells you how to do things but it doesn't stand over you telling you what you have to do. I work with the resources we love in the way TWTM describes using them. I would never in a million years touch Saxon math, but I have used TWTM suggestions to implement RightStart, for example.

 

Tara

[MIch elle]

I am thinking of IEW, but it is so expensive. He really needs help making his writing interesting! He loves to write sentences like "The boy went to the store." Not up to par for an almost 8th grader, I'm thinking!

 

For those of you that use a history curriculum, do you follow SWB's guidelines of outlining and notebook set up? Has anyone tried this with a traditional textbook?

 

Which leads me to another question: How much input do you let your kids have on the school materials you use? I can see my son balking at the notebook set up described in WTM, and all the outlining, but I think it would be really good for him.

 

The IEW History Based Writing Lessons are not expensive and are REALLY easy on dc/mom and get the job DONE! Look at IEW Ancient, Medival and US History based writing lessons samples : http://www.excellenceinwriting.com/index.php?q=catalog/theme-based-writing-1

 

We don't do history outlining & notes like SWB recommends. IEW History Writing Lessons is enough for us with R&S English compositions. For private high school, my older ds has to outline his world history textbook for EVERY chapter.

 

The only choice I give my ds is which book he would like to read and it's a limited choice (from 2 or 3 ).

 

HTH, :D

[calandalsmom]

Personally I strayed (if that is the word) because I much prefer the SL cores to anything else I have found.

[TxMama]

I'm actually straying towards WTM. :lol: I had 5 years of homeschooling under my belt before WTM was published in '99. Originally I only implemented history/geography with the olders which was a perfect fit. Prior to WTM we were trying to use Sonlight but not getting our money's worth out of the program. The other aspects of the olders' curriculum were working for us so I didn't make any other adjustments.

 

For my youngers I am finding that the WTM suggestions are working rather well for us at the moment with a few adjustments. Once I find something that works I put on my blinders! It's as simple as that.

 

The selections in WTM from the '99 book would not work for us as well as SWB's STOW/FLL/WWE. So I'm looking forward to the suggestions in the new version. It may be that I will return to the curriculum choices I made with my older children. I guess we'll find out when we get there.

[Suzannah]

I think Larissa has at least part of it. There are more options now than when the book was first published. And there are even more since the second edition. But that aside, each family is different...different numbers of kids, different strengths and weaknesses, etc. And then every mom (or dad) who is implementing the curricula is different in his or her strengths and weaknesses, time available, personality, etc.

 

I've heard some wonderful things about Classical Conversations, Sonlight, Tapestry of Grace and checked them out as possible "alternatives" to WTM. But I always come back to a fairly close semblance to the WTM plan as laid-out. I actually think, however, that those other programs are more different ways of impletmenting the basic ideas of TWTM rather than alternative ideas.

 

Part of what keeps me close to WTM is the simplicity of it and ease of adaptation. Having said that, I sometimes use a text to help me with implementation (such as Apologia Botany for science last year instead of the specific WTM suggestions for plant studies and Omnibus 2 this year to help us through the WTM reading list.)

 

Oh, and IEW is way too expensive for me. I did watch the videos with a friend and gleaned some useful knowledge. But there was enough that didn't impress me that I didn't go with it. I am, however, planning to use the US History Themed writing lessons next year. My problem is that we don't always get around to the "Writing across the curriculum" aspect of any writing program (Writing Strands, IEW, CW) no matter how much I intend to. My son will read anything history-related that I put in front of him, but by the end of the year my dreams of a full notebook of history narrations, outlines and summaries has dwindled to the reality of 3 or 4 outlines, two paragraphs on great men of history and one or two writing assignments that happened to overlap so I put them in the history folder too. This implementation is an area of weakness for me. I have good intentions and I know how to do it. We just let other things get in the way. Sometimes I need to be able to open up the workbook and say "Do pages 29-32 and see me when you're done."

Edited March 22, 2009 by Suzannah
Edited to comment on IEW

[Shasta Mom]

Are you sure we have strayed? I don't consider choosing different curricula straying. A beauty of hs'ing is the ability to get a more perfect fit, rather than one size fits all. I guess I never considered it a requirement to use everything as is for it to be considered consistent with WTM......

[jail warden]

Although, I have to admit there are things I used that she doesn't reccomend because they fit our family better, however, SWB tells you to use what works. I love that the framework is there and I can plug into the framework what works for our family. It's not like curriculum in a box, where if you don't do it this way you don't know if you're covering all your bases. I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE WTM and I'm so grateful to my friend Jean for hooking me up!

[Avila]

For me, I just don't see things as that set in stone, and I feel like I had to learn this the hard way. I have the '99 WTM and will be ordering the '09 version too. If you are doing well with the '99 stuff (or '04) and have it all, why switch, and is that not following the program, since the recommendations have changed?

 

Also, since WTM often gives multiple suggestions, which of them are you following to not stray? Any? All? I think we could all be following WTM and it look different.

 

I take what works for me, and I am coming to learn that if something isn't working or stops working, my first stop is the WTM book and whatever the updates are. But WTM, IMO, isn't curriculum in a box with a set book list and schedule for everyone, so I don't really believe that picking and choosing is really straying from it all that much. I do think it is narrowing with each update, as SWB publishes more and more things, but in between updates, things go out of print, and new things come up and some really are WTM-appropriate, even if they aren't in the book.

 

I hope this makes sense! I started with WTM, had things that weren't working, and gave up on it completely and went elsewhere for awhile. If I had come to see WTM more as a buffet than a lunch special, I would have stayed and probably been a much happier homeschooler.

[AudreyTN]

When my dd started 1st grade WTM was my "bible." It really really helped me have a starting point. We tried things... they didn't work... we tried other things. Now I'm pretty sure we've found our niche. :)

[Targhee]

because I completely disagree with SWB on a couple of key issues. However, her book was my first peek into classical education and for that I am grateful. I was simply searching for books on home schooling (oldest child was 2.5 at the time) and it was one of only three my library had. For me it was a spring board into classical education, and home schooling in general. I am the type of person who doesn't take things at face value, and I have to go and learn it/experience it for myself to be satisfied. So that's what I've done. And that's what I am still doing. I don't think I could ever follow anyone else's philsosphy/curriculum to a "T" - it's just not in my nature. But I'm always seeking to learn from others.

[Sara in WA]

About once a year I reread or flip through my favorite books on homeschooling and, like the OP, I am always reminded how lovely and really simple are the ideas from WTM book. I just read Dorothy Sayer's article on The Lost Tools of Learning and was reminded of the bigger goal here in our homeschool.

 

I think now as we are moving out of survival mode (no pregnancy, babies, house for sale or moving for over a year!), I am getting even more excited about the ideas from WTM. I have found that WTM and their books (SOTW, FLL, OPGTR and WWE) are great fits for our family. A few times a year I start researching other routes, and then if I just stick with our plan a bit longer, things get back on track and I'm so glad we stayed with the WTM ideas.

[MamaSheep]

The two main reasons we don't use WTM as written are (1) that we started in fourth grade but felt it would work best for ds to do history chronologically--so we were off track on the rotation from the start and (2) ds has a disability that complicates things (Asperger's Syndrome) and is further complicated by comorbid mental health issues (OCD, ODD, generalized anxiety disorder, and others).

 

We pulled ds out of school to homeschool him at the end of third grade. We had great people to work with at the ps who really were doing everything they could think of to make it work for him and were very accommodating with all of our requests. But a classroom setting with its sensory overload and social pressures was just an intolerable situation for him. He was so stressed out by it that he was literally eating his shirts--biting huge chunks out and swallowing them, to the point where some days I had to take a new shirt down for him because the brand-new one I'd put on in the morning was too shredded to stay on anymore, and his poor technicians (he had one in the morning and one in the afternoon because he wore them out) were doing their best to keep it out of his mouth. He had headaches and stomachaches every single day and was starting to say things like he wished he wasn't alive anymore. He was on the max dose of anxiety meds the pediatrician recommended, and it helped tremendously, but it was just such an unhealthy situation all around. He wasn't getting much out of school academically. He'd started kindergarten able to read at a 3-4th grade level and do addition, subtraction, and a little multiplication--he figured these things out because he just wanted to KNOW when he was little; I didn't even have to "teach" him much, just answer his questions the best I could. He also knew a lot about human physiology and U.S. geography because he was SO eager to learn. By the end of third grade he hadn't learned much of anything at school other than that learning was a miserable experience to be avoided at all costs. He read novels all day at school, though he'd stop long enough to answer a question if his teacher asked him directly. They let him do it because if he was reading novels he was not screaming, throwing things, hiding under the table, or trying to run away. He did a little of the work by dictating answers to the technician, but very little of his schoolwork ever came home written in his own handwriting--because they couldn't get him to write any more than it took to prove he COULD write. And they'd always tell me, "but he's so bright, and he obviously knows the material, so it's ok".

 

Well, to me it WASN'T ok. Something had to change. Not only had my knowledge-hungry little guy (who was a STRUGGLE at home as well as at school, let me just say) learned to hate knowledge with a passion, but he was also working his way toward ulcers and suicidal ideation. We talked with the school about other placements--they had one for behaviorally and emotionally "challenged" kids (who would frighten ds even more than the "normal" kids in the general ed classroom and likely only make things worse), and they had one for profoundly autistic kids (which focused on learning to speak and pay attention--not on academics of any kind). Looking at the roots of his "issues" it seemed to me that the only way to really reach him was to put him in a very small group of kids he felt "safe" with, in a non-threatening sensory environment, with more than one adult present, and work at HIS pace, focusing on his strengths and not just trying to shore up the weaknesses. That kind of placement was NOT available in the public school system. They did have tutors for homebound children, but according to their standards he was functioning "adequately" in the general classroom environment (because he knew the answers), so he didn't qualify for something like that. They were sympathetic, but, y'know...rules...funding...blah, blah, blah. The logical thing was homeschool, but I was terrified of that--I loved my son dearly, but a teacher, two technicians, the school psychologist, the speech therapist, occupational therapist, office staff, and principal who ALL worked with him as a team on a day-to-day basis could not handle this kid and teach him anything; how was I going to do it alone...with a toddler at home to take care of too....it was a frightening prospect. After lots of thought and discussion with dh and prayer, we decided that we couldn't in good conscience not TRY homeschooling, so we decided to have a mini-homeschool in the summer between 3rd and 4th grade, since he'd be home anyway, and if it was a complete disaster we could pick up where we left off with ps without missing a beat. By the end of the summer he was SO much more emotionally stable that we decided we had to keep at it. The school staff were very supportive, and helped us arrange for him to continue receiving speech support and counselling through the school, one-on-one or with just a couple of other kids, while doing his academics at home where he felt safer--which made me feel less "alone" in the battle...lol. And they've been a great resource for me to consult with as well.

 

BUT the whole first year, "school" consisted largely of small bits of learning stuck in between loooong fits of screaming, throwing things, knocking the table over, ripping workbook pages in half (I was at least smart enough not to give him the whole workbook at once) hiding behind the couch, and so forth. But even with all that it was SO MUCH BETTER than it had been before. He stopped eating his shirts, you could carry on a conversation with him--as long as it was on a topic he liked, he didn't talk about death anymore, and he slept better. We all slept better...lol. We could go for walks outside and play with the bugs. We could even do science experiments (the one part of school he usually tolerated as long as I didn't make him write). He would sometimes play with his sister, and even (gasp!) have an occasional friend his own age over to play. Things were better. But there was no way on God's green Earth that this kid was going to sit down and outline paragraphs from an encyclopedia. Not. Going. To. Happen. But even so, WTM made me feel like I could set up a framework and have a plan, and set goals--it gave me a starting point from which to modify that didn't involve having to actually follow a weekly schedule (because THAT was about as likely as outlining paragraphs). My ds's mind didn't work exactly as described in WTM, but I could see bits from each "level" that DID describe the way ds worked, and I could pick approaches for different subjects and situations according to the "level" ds was capable of working at in that situation--or on that particular DAY; it changed a lot.

 

Ds is a whole different kid now, and I wish I'd pulled him out of school sooner and not been so intimidated. It helps that dd now goes to school at the ps during the day so we don't have toddler distractions. But ds is doing GREAT! He is cheerful and helpful most of the time, and is even beginning to show some of his old enthusiasm for learning things again. His meds dosage has been lowered, even though he's grown a LOT since third grade and he's SO much better able to cope with life. He even goes to scouts cheerfully now and participates with the other kids when he gets there--a BIG step for him. Not only do I not have to fight, coax, cajole, bribe, and walk him through step-by-step to get basic school work done, he is actually able to do some workd--like math--completely on his own. I can just go over the lesson with him and then assign the problems as homework, and he'll actually sit down after supper and just DO it. On his own. Without even being asked. It's a long way from having to sit next to him and write every other problem FOR him, and give him a chocolate chip each time he did a problem, and grab the pencil FAST before he stabbed his paper (or me) with it.

 

BUT, writing continues to be an issue. He is learning to type, and is willing to type whole paragraphs as long as I don't ask him to do it very often, and as long as there is some kind of consequence structure (like we can skip X subject today if you turn in the paragraph, but if you don't we'll do double--even so, he'll sometimes choose double other work over writing one paragraph). He is working through HWT and has become MUCH more willing to write fill-in-the-blank kinds of things, or a sentence here and there for a minibook to go in a lapbook. He's proud that he's learning cursive, even though the people at school told me they don't usually bother trying to teach Aspies cursive because writing at all is such an ordeal for almost all of them that it only leads to more melt-downs, and people can get along fine in life without being able to write in cursive. He's slowly working through the 4th grade HWT book this year (he doesn't know the grade level--bless HWT for that!), and his attitude and abilities are improving so much that I have delustions of possible dictation assignments for next year (maybe alternating written and typed). But outlining paragraphs is still NOT in the cards. I'm hoping that by the end of high school he'll be able (and willing) to take outline form notes from lectures, since he does want to go to college, and with a mind like his it'd be a shame if he didn't. But writing is likely to always be an issue for him, and he may need to hire a note-taker from the campus disability office.

 

At any rate, this is TMI, but it's the main reason we don't use WTM as written. Outlining and writing assignments for notebooks are just not a realistic option in our quirky little world. But I love the IDEAS of WTM, and have applied many of them in a modified format that does suit our needs.

[Lovedtodeath]

At any rate, this is TMI, but it's the main reason we don't use WTM as written. Outlining and writing assignments for notebooks are just not a realistic option in our quirky little world.

 

 

:grouphug: :grouphug: I am glad you shared! I am glad homeschooling is working for you. You are so brave and obviously a loving mother.

 

But I love the IDEAS of WTM, and have applied many of them in a modified format that does suit our needs.

That's what it's all about isn't it? :D

[MamaSheep]

:grouphug: :grouphug: I am glad you shared! I am glad homeschooling is working for you. You are so brave and obviously a loving mother.

 

That's what it's all about isn't it? :D

 

I have to laugh at "brave"...people say things like that to me all the time, but from my side of the room it looks a LOT more like desperation than courage. When you run out of options, you do what's left, y'know...because what ELSE are you going to do?

 

On a side note mom brag, ds's current speech pathologist told me the other day she'd looked up something in his file. This is her first year working with him and she had evidently read his IEP goals for this year from the previous SLP but hadn't gone back in his file. Anyway she said she thought she'd gotten the wrong file because these horror stories could not POSSIBLY refer to the sweet, though awkward, kid she works with. I laughed and assured her that every gruesome word was true--and they probably were being kind in how they phrased it. And she said she no longer is surprised by the look on my face whenever she tells me he's done something good in there (I tear up sometimes). And she didn't even know she should be afraid of being bitten (only when cornered, and he never drew blood, but one of his techs had a nasty bite shaped bruise for WEEKS one time; I hope she got combat pay). He's come a LONG way.

[Mom2boys]

I spent most of the night and early morning hours rereading sections of WTM (my old beat-up 1999 edition). It seems so simple. How have I made it so hard? Why do I spend hours researching curriculum? Why do I keep trying to make things fit into WTM instead of just going by the book?

 

If you are following WTM as laid out, I would love to hear about your experience and how you have squashed the temptation to try all the new programs out there. I was all set on Sonlight (after crashing and burning with TOG this year), and now I'm not sure. Is it worth all that money? Would the money be better spent on field trips and museum memberships?

.:D

 

I think part of it may just be the time of year. This tends to be, at least for me, the time of year when I get bored with what we are doing, and start dreaming about what else is out there curriculum-wise. I don't usually make a lot of changes year-to-year, but I do enjoy looking at what all is out there. :D

 

For what it is worth, we are currently using Sonlight in a WTM way. For the logic stage, I take core 6 and 7 and spread them over four years, so they fit the WTM history cycle. I only bought the IG and a few books (the ones my library didn't own) so it wasn't very expensive. I still consider myself to be following the WTM, even if I am not using their exact curriculum recommendations.

[Mom2boys]

I follow most of SWB's suggestions, and have been thankful that they have worked so well for my family.

 

It comes down to doing what works well for your particular family. I am thankful that SWB and JW explain the philosophy so thoroughly in the book so that when a specific curriculum suggestion does not fit us well, I still have the tools to choose an acceptable alternative.

 

:iagree:

[Frontier Mom]

I LOVE the WTM! SWB's philosophy resonates with me and inspires me. But I'm a curriculum junkie. So I have to look around and see what else is out there :-)

:iagree:

 

I love the WTM but I'm so easily convinced that something else is the best that I try it, only to return. However, one thing I could never get through was R&S. Nope, that sucker got me everytime we tried. I've tried three different times and I am now respectfully holding the white flag. I fought the good fight but it won.:banghead:

[runamuk]

I hadn't read TWTM when I started homeschooling and ended up with a complicated schedule that didn't work for us and curriculm we didn't enjoy. I wanted a classical education for my children, but after spending so much time researching different lessons and methods, I was tired and bought the programs that seemed like they'd make things easier. I ended up with an eclectic program that didn't work and had my daughter in tears.

 

After reading SWB's book, I started making changes and following the format laid out in the book. I don't follow all of the recommendations, but a majority of them are working very well for us; so much so that our day is rarely longer than 3.5 hours and our daughter often starts her work by herself. We have time for field trips and fun experiments and reading time. Our son is doing Pre-K work this spring and I can see that many of the suggestions in TWTM may not work for him, but I will use the book, the suggestions and the philosophy to find something that does work.

 

I still find myself looking at other curricula, but I think it's just that time of year when I find myself wanting to try/do/learn more things.

[Kim in SouthGa]

Greta (and anyone else using SL ala WTM):

How will you do high school? I have been trying to figure that out all afternoon! The Great Books section of WTM scares the bejonkers out of me!!

A little background...I have four kiddos, ages almost 13, 10, 8, and almost 2. The two year old has certainly made school interesting. She is a climber and wants to be right with us when we are doing school. My 8ds is a golf nut-he just wants to finish school as soon as possible and head to the golf course with his dad. My 10dd is a sleepy head, likes to take her time waking up in the morning, is very artsy. So, I'm no longer trying to combine them after this year. It is just not working. We can't get a lot done while the toddler is up, and my 8ds is ready to golf with his dad before she goes down for a nap. My almost 13ds is up early and a self-starter, but tends to not do his work properly if I'm not checking on him throughout the day. When he starts high school, I'll have a preschooler, a 6th grader, and a 4th grader. This makes me shudder. I generally love, love, love to plan. I love to pull all my own resources together. But I'm worn out. My dh travels a lot, and I don't get very much help with the house or kids. So, that is why I was planning to switch to Sonlight. We used SL K when my oldest was 5, and I have such good memories of that time.

Wow, this is way too much info.! Can you tell I am freaking out about high school? I would love to hear how SL can work for high school. I'm concerned because Ancient history is not covered after SL 6, unless I am missing something.

[EKS]

I guess it depends on what you mean by "straying".

 

It seems to me that TWTM lays out a philosophy first and foremost. I've always thought that the curriculum suggestions and the estimated amounts of time were more examples of how the philosophy might be applied, rather than hard and fast rules.

 

For me, the take home message of TWTM is:

 

Read early and often. Read challenging material. Read the classics.

Do rigorous grammar every year.

Learn to spell properly. Expand your vocabulary.

Learn to write well, but not necessarily in first grade.

 

Do rigorous math.

 

Do history chronologically. Use living books. Lots of them. Do projects and activities. Have fun! And then do it again and again.

 

Do rigorous science. Do it again and again.

 

Learn Latin.

 

The whole thing makes for a rigorous, content-rich education. The great thing is that with homeschooling we can tweak it to fit our children and ourselves.

[Kelli in TN]

I guess it depends on what you mean by "straying".

 

It seems to me that TWTM lays out a philosophy first and foremost. I've always thought that the curriculum suggestions and the estimated amounts of time were more examples of how the philosophy might be applied, rather than hard and fast rules.

 

For me, the take home message of TWTM is:

 

Read early and often. Read challenging material. Read the classics.

Do rigorous grammar every year.

Learn to spell properly. Expand your vocabulary.

Learn to write well, but not necessarily in first grade.

 

Do rigorous math.

 

Do history chronologically. Use living books. Lots of them. Do projects and activities. Have fun! And then do it again and again.

 

Do rigorous science. Do it again and again.

 

Learn Latin.

 

The whole thing makes for a rigorous, content-rich education. The great thing is that with homeschooling we can tweak it to fit our children and ourselves.

 

I think this is a great summary. Whenever I press my 1st edition copy of WTM into a bewildered homeschooler's hands I always do so with this statement "Ignore the schedules, Susan did not want to put them in there. Ignore the curriculum choices, almost anything you like can work. Catch the vision, just be inspired."

 

The way you sum it up is the way we did it (except I guess our math was not all that rigorous). We even failed Latin and logic (but I still have three more kids left to try to get that right!!). But WTM was our inspiration every step of the way.

[mlbuchina]

This coming school year will be our first time with WTM. I am so glad I have it, though! It fits my teaching style, but has plenty of freedom for me to work the curricula to my children's learning styles. It has truly been a God-send for me. I am using most of what she recommends, so I will have to wait to see if I have to switch. We finished math for K early, so we went ahead and started 1st math with Saxon. So far, this has been great for us. I'm even able to use a lot of it with my almost 4 yr old. I hope we have as much success with the rest of the curriculum choices.:)

[Reya]

Why do I keep trying to make things fit into WTM instead of just going by the book?

 

I don't try to make things fit into WTM--I try to make things fit my kid.

 

My goal as a parent is to parent myself out of a job. :-) That goes for HSing, too. Lighting the fire and building independence are two of my main goals. It's okay to help, but I want to INTERNALLY motivate. I want to do my best to make my kid love EVERY subject. When he takes his schoolwork to bed and grabs it the first thing the next morning, my heart does a little flip-flop. I'm willing to do a LOT of changing around to make this happen.

 

This does not mean that I won't teach a subject because he doesn't like it. It means I'll do what I can to get him to like it, instead. And if he likes it, I'll let him be largely self-directed.

 

He likes the books I choose for him at this point, but he chooses what to read when. He does the same for history and science, too. So we're all over the place. When he wants to study X, we study it. When he gets excited about a series, we pursue it--even to the neglect of other things. (He just finished On The Banks of Plum Creek and is about to start the next one! That's farther than I got when I first read the Little House books.) I have in mind what I want him to get out of history or science or reading, and I make sure these things get touched on, but I'm thrilled to give over a lot of the minor control as soon as he wants it.

 

The only thing we still all hate is spelling. Haven't figured out how to make that fun.

[Trivium Academy]

somewhat, as WTM doesn't really cover the parent-to-child relationship, and in comparison (imo) to Charlotte Mason philosophies/techniques- it seemed a bit schoolish.

 

After gaining a little bit of experience as a teacher, I became more confident and able to navigate education philosophies and practices outside the realm of WTM but if I had never been influenced by WTM- we wouldn't have grown as much as we have.

 

There are a lot of areas of the WTM philosophy that we haven't strayed from but just changed the curricula to make it easier for us to accomplish the same goals, sometimes using different curricula makes it seem like you're not following the same direction due to the curricula's philosophy.

 

I think WTM is an excellent canvas to start from, the structure is strong and broad but you have to apply the paint and figure out what you're going to paint. We ultimately chose CM philosophies and CM-friendly curricula to paint with on the WTM canvas.

 

This is my experience...

[SheWillFly]

I think WTM is an excellent canvas to start from, the structure is strong and broad but you have to apply the paint and figure out what you're going to paint. We ultimately chose CM philosophies and CM-friendly curricula to paint with on the WTM canvas.

 

This is my experience...

What a great way to put it! That is how we are approaching educating our children as well.

 

We started with CM philosophy and realized with a child who had already been in the public school system and introduced to certain things earlier than CM suggest that it would be a disservice to her to put learning in those areas on hold. That is where WTM came in for us. :)

[Mama Lynx]

Although I do love WTM and still use many of Susan's products and ideas, I came to have a philosophical difference regarding classical education. I choose curricula to fit my philosophy, and my students. WTM will always have a place as the book that started me down this path.

[MIch elle]

I guess it depends on what you mean by "straying".

 

It seems to me that TWTM lays out a philosophy first and foremost. I've always thought that the curriculum suggestions and the estimated amounts of time were more examples of how the philosophy might be applied, rather than hard and fast rules.

 

For me, the take home message of TWTM is:

 

Read early and often. Read challenging material. Read the classics.

Do rigorous grammar every year.

Learn to spell properly. Expand your vocabulary.

Learn to write well, but not necessarily in first grade.

 

Do rigorous math. Do history chronologically. Use living books. Lots of them. Do projects and activities. Have fun! And then do it again and again. Do rigorous science. Do it again and again. Learn Latin.

 

The whole thing makes for a rigorous, content-rich education. The great thing is that with homeschooling we can tweak it to fit our children and ourselves.

 

:iagree: The book is called "The Well Trained Mind," so we use the materials/curricula that will train the minds of ourselves and our children using what works to attain that goal in our home.

[Woodland_Mom]

"So why have so many of us strayed from WTM?"

That question came at the perfect time for me! I, too, have been thinking about all kinds of book packages! This year I actually moved away from many of SWB recommendations because I thought some different things would work better for us, but they haven't! I will most likely return to many of TWTM recommendations for next year or maybe sooner!

 

SWB recommendations and schedule were intended to make it easier on parents to classicaly educate their children at home. TWTM has provided me with a wonderful, do-able method for teaching my children. When I began homeschooling, I appreciated the "hand holding" through curricula suggestions, schedules, and outlines. Now that I've been doing this for a few years, I have felt more comfortable trying my own thing. Some things I've tried have worked better for my family, and some things haven't. Just remember: it is the METHOD and content that matters in classical education. It's okay to use other curricula if they seem to be a better fit for you.

 

I still refer to TWTM often so I can refresh my memory about the classical education process, goals for each stage, and recommended resources. From there, I can access what my children and I need, and then choose what will work best for us.

 

TWTM is not just a book filled with homeschool schedules and curricula recommendations. It is a book that explains and outlines how to provide a Classical Education for children at home. I think the book does a great job of describing Classical Education and breaking it into stages that are easy to understand. In the end, Classical Education is about training the mind. I want my children to be equipped with the tools of how to learn so they grow up and leave our home with the ability to be lifelong learners. I'm thankful for TWTM recommendations, but in the end, I must make the final decision on the tools (books, curriculua, etc.) that I use to educate my children.

 

So why have so many of us strayed? My anser is this: Teaching our children is a HUGE responsibility AND gift! We can't (and shouldn't) select curricula based on one persons recommendations. (I say that respecfully, because I truly appreciate SWB writings on classical education.) We have to do what will work best in our own household. Sometimes that involves trial and error. Sometimes that will mean following the recommendations in TWTM. The classical method seems to be a good fit for us, so we'll follow that path and consider TWTM recommendations closely as we continue our homeschooling journey.

[Strawberry Queen]

I think that we have stayed fairly close to WTM rec's, mostly because they're fundamentally simple. I have tried packaged curriculum for various subjects (SL) but my kids never seem to fit the packages requirements. They're either too far ahead in one area, or too far behind in another.;)

 

One of the things that I've seen the wisdom in is beginning children with simplified accounts of longer books. My dd spoke to this point on the way to dance class on Saturday. She commented that we had 3 versions of Heidi, each one slightly longer than the other. She said that she wanted to read the unabridged version because she already had a basic idea of what the story was about. When I first read WTM I wanted to be a purist and read only unabridged books. However, I *know* that my dd wouldn't have read either Heidi or Treasure Island this year if she hadn't read the easier version.

 

So, as the future unfolds I will use the WTM rec's as a starting point for our curriculum choices. I've spent so much time researching curriculum and not buying it that I feel like I'm wasting my life.:D I'm trying to gain myself more of a life outside of homeschooling so I can have a more well-rounded life. Eventually my dds will have graduated from hs and then where will I be if I've spent all my free time researching hs curriculum?:tongue_smilie:

[rainforest mama]

I like to think that I have stayed with the WTM philosophy all these years. We follow the base plan, but I have never felt that I had to use the exact curricula they recommend. Because we are secular, some of SWB's first choices were not appropriate for us. Other curriculum suggestions, like Writing Strands, didn't work for us. I didn't feel that it was against the rules to replace one curriculum with another.

 

Besides these minor curriculum changes, I still go back to both my copies of WTM to seek knowledge and inspiration. For us, the program works, but no curriculum fits all.

[Lovedtodeath]

That question came at the perfect time for me! I, too, have been thinking about all kinds of book packages!

 

I think that is the reason in a nutshell. Right now TWTM requires planning, library trips and decisions. Packaged curriculum does not line up perfectly to TWTM model, but it is easier to implement because it is more open and go.

[Tree House Academy]

I loosely use TWTM and I do follow and agree with a lot of what is written there. However, no homeschool curriculum, guide, or anything else is going to be the end all for me. I follow, I look to it for suggestions, and then I go with my gut - with the way I can teach or the way my kids can learn. In TWTM, they give options that "fit" the classical education model. Some of the curriculun that I use wasn't even around when the 2004 copy of TWTM was published. I will be interested to see how many of our picks make it in the revision. :)

 

I think of TWTM as a way of thinking - a guide, if you will. Not THE way, but A great way.

[Rosie_0801]

We can't (and shouldn't) select curricula based on one persons recommendations.

 

Lol, you haven't been on here when Susan has been quizzing us all on our favourite resources?

 

:)

Rosie

[Tree House Academy]

I'm trying to gain myself more of a life outside of homeschooling so I can have a more well-rounded life. Eventually my dds will have graduated from hs and then where will I be if I've spent all my free time researching hs curriculum?

 

Boy, did I need to read that right now! I have been driving myself NUTS over the last few weeks trying to find the "perfect" thing and then questioning and re-questioning myself. UGH! You are right!

[Mommy22alyns]

TWTM is wings, not an airplane. :)

[Mom2boys]

Greta (and anyone else using SL ala WTM):

How will you do high school? I have been trying to figure that out all afternoon! The Great Books section of WTM scares the bejonkers out of me!!

Wow, this is way too much info.! Can you tell I am freaking out about high school? I would love to hear how SL can work for high school. I'm concerned because Ancient history is not covered after SL 6, unless I am missing something.

 

Hi Kim

 

I just got back online and saw your question. Sorry I didn't reply sooner. At the present, I only plan to use Sonlight for the logic stage. I don't have set plans yet for high school history & lit. (scares the bejonkers out of me too!) I would like to incorporate Susan's new "History of the World" series, provided she finishes writing it in time. :D My oldest will be a 7th grader in the fall, so I have a little time to figure it all out. I wish I had some words of wisdom for you. But you are right - the Sonlight high school cores do not teach history chronologically and don't cover ancient history.

[Catwoman]

At any rate, this is TMI, but it's the main reason we don't use WTM as written.

 

Definitely NOT TMI -- thanks so much for sharing your story! You sound like you're a candidate for Best Mom on Earth, and I really enjoyed reading about you and your son!

 

Cat