Still deciding between WP, SL and MFW - please indulge me . . . again!!

[mommysweird]

I've always wanted to do SL and the more I look at it, the more I'm attracted to it. I just read "the good, bad and ugly" thread another poster started on WP and I think it's helped clear some things up for me.

 

If SL books are mostly fiction, I think that would be a good thing for DS. He tends to get a glazed over look on his face if we read anything non-fiction (unless he's just looking at the illustrations). Are the MFW books suggested in the book basket mostly fiction or non-fiction?

 

Here's my hesitation on SL1 - While DS can read slightly above his 1st grade level, he doesn't necessarily LIKE to read. BUT he loves to listen to me read. Will this be an appropriate balance for SL? FYI: We read some SL books in K last year and he still remembers and brings them up! I'd say that's a point in the SL column for a kid who typically doesn't like reading.

 

Have I completely confused everyone? :001_smile: Sorry. I just need help collecting my thoughts. They're all over the place!

[angela&4boys]

For this age, I love Sonlight for read-alouds and reader packages. I'm not sure they still say it in their catalog, but one thing I really agree with them on is to choose a reading level one level below. I find this especially true with (most) boys. So far, 1 out of 4 of our dbs was a voracious reader.

 

We were very pleased with the choices from SL for reading. Very rarely were we ever dissapointed. We no longer use SL, but only because I'm comfortable choosing their literature for them. But if I'm ever back in the market or just don't have the time to customize, I'd look there first.

 

However, I will say that WP's LA worked very well for one of my ds's and learned to read with their program.

 

And something that's always helped me... prayer. :) I usually pray and make myself wait a day or so before I peruse the catalogs and it all becomes clear.

 

Hth some,

Edited March 19, 2009 by angela&4boys

[Chris in VA]

Sonlight readers are really easy for the grade level. Some kids need that to develop fluency, or to meet their needs otherwise. They are not twaddle books, either. The read alouds tend to be chosen for their ability to foster an emotional connection--very popular with many kids.

 

If he doesn't like to read, he'll probably do well with the readers, again, because they are on the easy side but are really good books. And, if he loves to hear you read, Sonlight will fit well, because reading aloud is the main activity. If you feel he needs more hands-on, you can still use Sonlight--either supplement with something like an activity book yourself, or check out the forums at the site, or even something like Paula's Archives (or just google Sonlight activities) for lists of things to do alongside the readings.

[chiguirre]

SL readers don't match the core until SL 3, so it's no problem to do the readers and read-alouds on a different schedule if you need to. Personally, I find SL readers line up with other curricula, particularly Calvert's HM readers, Pathway readers, LLATL and ETC phonics. They're not advanced but they are solidly on grade level if you compare them with other basal programs.

[mommysweird]

Thank you! You guys answered my question when I didn't even know exactly what my question was!! :lol: The readers are exactly what I was concerned about.

 

One more question concerning the readers - they are included with the Core, right? Not the LA portion. We are happy with our LA (Time4Learning) and I think we'll continue with that if it won't cause too many issues.

[SnowWhite]

I think it sounds like you have an SL kid on your hands! Even though I love WP I know we would probably like SL if it were our cuppa tea, which it's just not a fit.

 

I agree with the previous poster who recommended you not just pick a history Core based on the child's age. The Core K material seems plenty steep in comprehension difficulty for a first grader and by going a level "below" it saves you from having too-hard material to wade through in later years, as there are some "jumps" in maturity at the Core 3 and Core 5 levels from what I have read.

[coralloyd]

We just finished SL Core K/Science K (we're waiting till dd5 turns 6 to start SL1, we still love SL). DD5 read the K readers and now dd7 is onto the Intermediate 2 readers. You can choose whichever level of readers fits your child, with any Core. My girls LOVE the readers, and so do I. However, I do not suggest the Language Arts program; it jumps around (no real sequence), with very little to no instruction. Some of the games are fun in the LA, but that is all we like about it. The Core/Sci. is all read-alouds. If he love being read to SL is for you.

Edited March 19, 2009 by coralloyd

[cbollin]

Are the MFW books suggested in the book basket mostly fiction or non-fiction?

 

 

I didn't see anyone answer this part. Book basket lists have both fiction and non fiction. And he can select as he wants to in that time.

My daughters sometimes just glance through non fiction titles and read captions or a paragraph here and there. I've pulled books from basket to read to them while we're snuggled on the couch. One thing I really have liked about book basket is the variety and individual feel to it. We have books at, below, and above level. It's a nice mix in my family.

 

But if you're really wanting to do SL, give it a try and see if it fits for the season.

 

-crystal

[coralloyd]

To your question about the Readers being part of the Core.

You can buy everything separately like this:

History, and Geography http://www.sonlight.com/history-geography-1.html

Read-Alouds http://www.sonlight.com/read-alouds-1.html

Bible http://www.sonlight.com/bible-1.htm

Readers http://www.sonlight.com/1R5G.html

 

or

 

You can purchase it all together, like this:

http://www.sonlight.com/core-1.html

 

If you purchase it all together, they let you choose Readers between levels 1 and 2 Intermediate. If you want something different than these, you need to buy separately.

 

History, Geography, Read-Alouds, and Bible are all scheduled in the Core 1 Instructors Guide. Readers are not scheduled in the Core 1 IG; they come with their own schedule. If you go with the LA program the Reads are schduled in that IG; there is no need to then purchase the Readers schedule. http://www.sonlight.com/la-1.html

 

You can also buy used on the SL forum, this forum, and many other places online (saves a load of money). Just use your catalog as a guide so you don't miss anything that is needed. I understand if this seems a little overwhelming though :D.

Edited March 19, 2009 by coralloyd

[rafiki]

.

[siloam]

Kim,

 

What level is your boy reading at? I mean easily, not having to sound out many words. That would give me an idea of what level of SL readers he would best be placed in. Remember even if it is on the easy side that just builds fluency (the ability to read faster).

 

I would agree that from what you described WP is probably out, and either SL or MFW would be the program of choice.

 

MFW has a lighter schedule in general and all topics are integrated (LA and science). Instead you are given a book list to use. The idea being you set aside books for the child to read, and they choose their readers from the "book basket" you make up from the list.

 

SL "core" is the core (sorry couldn't resist), and while LA and science are nice you can go elsewhere for those (if you want). The schedule can be a little...well I always had trouble finishing a core in a year.

 

Heather

[mommysweird]

Heather,

 

My son's reading level is, I think right on target for the end of 1st grade. He can read 5 and 6 letter words, understands suffixes (ing, ed, es, and the like), but gets a little flipped out with too many words on a page (like chapter books). He needs short chapter books with some pictures and space on the page. According to SL, that is the regular 2 readers. Am I understanding right?

 

And BTW, thank you for your input. You've helped me sort through eliminating TOG from our choices (too overwhelming for me at this point). As far as MFW goes, we really liked MFW-K. But I just never felt peace about MFW-1, so we hodge-podged this year. We JUST got into a routine in February. I'm not ultra-structured, but I like to have a plan to work from (so I have something to ignore! :001_smile:). I've learned I definitely need an IG or TM.

 

Thanks!

[siloam]

Heather,

 

My son's reading level is, I think right on target for the end of 1st grade. He can read 5 and 6 letter words, understands suffixes (ing, ed, es, and the like), but gets a little flipped out with too many words on a page (like chapter books). He needs short chapter books with some pictures and space on the page. According to SL, that is the regular 2 readers. Am I understanding right?

 

And BTW, thank you for your input. You've helped me sort through eliminating TOG from our choices (too overwhelming for me at this point). As far as MFW goes, we really liked MFW-K. But I just never felt peace about MFW-1, so we hodge-podged this year. We JUST got into a routine in February. I'm not ultra-structured, but I like to have a plan to work from (so I have something to ignore! :001_smile:). I've learned I definitely need an IG or TM.

 

Thanks!

 

Kim,

 

Yes, the level 2 readers sound just right, so to demonstrate how the readers would work out long term:

 

2008 Core 1 with LA 2 and the level 2 readers

2009 Core 2 with LA 2 Int and the level 2 Int readers

2010 Core 3 with LA 3 and the level 3 readers.

 

I enjoyed Core 1 and I would have continued with SL if my younger three weren't hands on learners. As it was we only made it through Core 2.

 

Heather

 

[Tess in the Burbs]

we looked at SL too for a year or two and really wanted to try it. So we did. The return policy is what finally made me just give it a try. And we LOVE it!

 

If your child likes to be read to, there is a good chance you will love SL.

 

We are doing Core 1 now, will do Core 2 next year but then we will take a year off and do the MFW Adventures. After that I will decide which one to stay with.

 

But I don't regret trying SL. I really wanted it for awhile and it sounds like you want to try it. so do!!! you can always return it....

[jozi]

I am choosing my ds's curriculum for first grade next year, too. This year I did a blend of MFW and Sonlight. I did Bible, History/Geography from Sonlight and MFW for everything else...science, math, reading, etc... I really loved the way it worked out, but am choosing not to go with MFW for next year. I am sticking with mostly SL, as that was what my ds was REALLY drawn to. I would certainly recommend buying through people on the forums. I've been SO happy with what I've purchased. It has been a good price, shipped quickly, and arrived in the condition people have stated. Good luck with your search!

[mommysweird]

Just to clarify, DS will be in 2nd grade in the fall. But based on overwhelming recommendations, I am choosing Core 1 due to his age, gender and the fact that Core 1+2 would take 2 years anyway and I want to just enjoy the ride.

 

Thanks for all your helpful responses!

[cbollin]

MFW has a lighter schedule in general and all topics are integrated (LA and science). Instead you are given a book list to use. The idea being you set aside books for the child to read, and they choose their readers from the "book basket" you make up from the list.

 

I wanted to try to help see the unseen with MFW and reading from the perspective of a long time user of just MFW. (These are just my standard answers, and trying to fill in more of Heather's answer, not take away from it.)

 

There are several aspects to what is read in MFW and how much is scheduled, what is read by parent/teacher and what is read by student, and who gets a say in the matter of the selection, and which books need to be "finished."

 

*all of the package books are scheduled. That is where your information to teach comes from. It will tell you what to read and how much. That's common to a lot of programs. With the book choices that MFW makes, you need fewer teaching notes in the manual itself.

 

*Read Alouds (from the deluxe package on their website) are scheduled. read this chapter today, read that chapter tomorrow. They are scheduled.

 

*Book basket is a daily reading activity. The activity is scheduled. Book basket is a time to encourage love of reading and developing skills for learning from independent reading. The book basket list is scheduled in the manual so that you are choosing books when it falls on topic. However, you help your child enjoy selecting which one to use.

Lots of books over the year. Use library to cut cost. Wide variety of genres. This is a time to let kids put down stuff they don't like, but at least try something. Think of it as a buffet. Encourage them to try something new, but let them enjoy it.

 

So, no, the manual will not say in book basket activity "read page 5 of the non fiction book, and then read pages 10-15 of your chapter book". You will have titles that line up with the history and science (and even music/art history) topics for the week (or for the country in ECC and therefore 2 weeks) let them read for at least 15 minutes or longer after they are done. We have to save book basket for last thing on some days because they don't want to get out of it.

 

You are not tied to a specific title. This is great in my opinion.

 

You go to the library and get what is available (and/or select more from the shelves too. My librarians love it when they see me with my MFW manual and rolling cart). Now, when you get home, your child gets to own his decisions in what he is reading from basket. This is one way to help encourage independent learning in the earliest years.

 

 

*books to use Reading time (as in reading comprehension) You have options here. In my house, I will pull a title from book basket whenever possible. It just makes my life easier. These are going to be longer books for older kids and I have an expectation and hope that they will finish it. We read silently. We read together. We use CM narration techniques, informal discussion techniques to assess for reading comprehension of these "readers". Other option for which books to use when the kids are sick of reading about history: turn to the back of the MFW manual where you will find a General Reading List that is sorted by "grade level reading". pick a classic. We do this too. I want my children to have a wide variety of literature and it doesn't always have to be history related. So, with that in mind, I tend to the be one who suggests/selects which books to let my child read for this time. I certainly welcome their input in it. But they get more of a say in book basket and I get more of a say in "reading". (additional reading comprehension is part of the language arts program, but that's a different topic right now)

 

Again, you aren't tied to a specific "grade level" reader because you are teaching a family. So, you have multiple levels of readers (both in the sense of titles of books and in your children.)

 

I have really enjoyed that blending of best worlds over the years. I'm not tied to a specific "reader" list, but I have the benefit of a pre-screen list of top notch books that are scheduled in the sense of use some of these while on or near this topic in history/science.

 

I hope that helps to see the unseen in MFW. Might be what I want, might be what someone else doesn't want.

 

-crystal

Edited March 20, 2009 by cbollin

[Donna A.]

I have really enjoyed that blending of best worlds over the years. I'm not tied to a specific "reader" list, but I have the benefit of a pre-screen list of top notch books that are scheduled in the sense of use some of these while on or near this topic in history/science.

Me too. We've learned soooo much from the books in Book Basket, and have read a lot of titles that I'd never heard of before.... titles that I haven't seen in any other lit-based curric package or "good books" list. And I have the confidence of knowing that every book on the Book Basket list has been pre-read and screened for me, so that saves me a lot of time and decision-making agony. The author puts a little description next to each and every title, sort of like the TruthQuest author does (if you've ever seen those), except that Marie or her family has actually READ every title there. This way I get a heads-up about books with questionable content that might not be right for our family.

 

One reason I went with MFW over SL is because MFW doesn't schedule a gazillion different titles that I feel like we *have* to read in order to complete the lessons. They use reference material like Streams, Victor Journey and Usborne, schedule a *few* well-chosen read-alouds that fit in with the lessons, and then I have Book Basket to pick and choose from as time and interest allow. Since Book Basket is sorted by topic and/or week #, and Marie has been so careful to add her notes to each title, I don't have a problem with which titles to order from the library. Occasionally our library doesn't have a specific title, so I just find something else on that topic. No big deal.

 

For those who don't have a great library like I do, Marie has also asterisked some titles that she recommends for purchase if you prefer to do it that way. The Hazell's lived in Russia for 8 years, so they know what it's like not to have that library option.... but they also know how many one-income families struggle, so they don't want to burden families with *having* to buy a large package of books every year, either.

 

Another thing I've observed between MFW and some others.... With MFW, you buy a resource text like Streams, and you use it for multiple years. She doesn't quote large portions of encyclopedias and then include them in the teacher's manual, making you buy those encyclopedia quotes over and over each year. This saves you money in the Big Picture.

 

In short, MFW is intended to be efficient in both cost and time, without losing quality in the process. But I agree that it's hard to "see" that from the web samples. It's really best if you can get to a convention and get your hands on it. :thumbup1:

[mommysweird]

I do hope to go to convention this year. It's only about 2 months away! David Hazell is offering 3 workshops and I've got them highlighted!:thumbup:

 

Crystal,

Since you've offered me so much more info on MFW, I have one further question. Are the spines with MFW more fiction or non-fiction? I really think DS connects more with non-fiction, so I'm hesitant to do something that he would consider "boring."

 

This isn't a MFW selection (I don't think), but we read The House at Pooh Corner last year with K and after a few days he said "Do we have to read boring old Pooh?" Kids certainly don't hold their opinions back! But he really connected with several fiction books from SL's list and FIAR. Some that really stick out are Dolphin Treasure, The Family Under the Bridge (SL) and The Clown of God (FIAR), and The Story About Ping (FIAR and SL).

 

So you can see, fiction really sticks with him (and maybe all kids???). He still brings up The Family Under the Bridge and Dolphin Treasure when pretending or just mulling things over in his little brain.

[mommysweird]

Hmmm, Okay. Thanks for clearing that up for me. Still praying . . .:Angel_anim:

[cbollin]

I do hope to go to convention this year. It's only about 2 months away! David Hazell is offering 3 workshops and I've got them highlighted!:thumbup:

 

Crystal,

Since you've offered me so much more info on MFW, I have one further question. Are the spines with MFW more fiction or non-fiction?

 

I've read this and for some reason my brain is reading your question the right way. It's because my parents are visiting so I shouldn't be on the computer anyway. But.... why not?

 

MFW primarily uses non fiction books for getting history and science facts. So for spines, it's non fiction, or at least historical fiction. I'm thinking in the Adventures program of one book American Pioneers and Patriots that is more in the historical fiction style.

 

Fiction comes from various read alouds in the deluxe packages. And then, there is a lot of fiction in the book basket too. So there is a lot for having snuggle on the couch reading time.

 

I'm overthinking..... in K, the recommended reading list is to grab non fiction books for the science facts. But then you get a fiction reading list. In 1st, the main history is from Bible reader. Then you can have fiction titles in the "math literature" sections. And they recommend using Honey for a child's Heart to help select quality read out loud time. lots of fiction.

 

book basket will have fiction, historical fiction, etc., and non fiction selections.

 

But for history/science spines for getting the facts, it's non fiction.

 

well.... back to my parents who came to visit. My "baby" turns 7 tomorrow.

 

-crystal

[mommysweird]

Crystal,

 

My oldest turned 7 in February. My baby is just that - still a baby!;)

 

You've cleared many things up for me. I'm definitely looking at ADV for next year as he's finishing up 1st right now. I did K with him and I remember the book suggestions being exactly as you described. But you've given me much to think about. Thanks so much for your help! You're always so helpful on the MFW board, I had no idea you were over here too!