Lux Et Veritas Academy Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 So now we are winding down the school year, and I hate to see middle school officially come to a close in a couple of months. I hate the fact now, that you really have to concentrate on tests. I hate the fact, that the SAT/ ACT ‘s now demand so much attention. I hate the fact that the classes we are taking really have to count. It just squashes the love of learning. It just makes you teach to a test. It takes years for kids to rebound and start to love learning, and some never do rebound. Some people never pick up another book again. I hate what the system does to people. It stresses parents out, kids learn, but really don’t enjoy the process of learning . I have loved the fact, that we can read, and if we love someone like Charles Dickens, we can spend a month on him. If we love something like the Renaissance, we can go there in our minds, spoil ourselves, read about all of the characters and then want more! So then we move on to England, and spend two months on all of the players and still want more. High school squashes that excitement for learning , it deflates and makes you have to stay on some type of yucky schedule, to make sure that you are ready for an exam. Take for instance the AP European History exam. If we focus on that next year, we spend only two days on the Renaissance and two days on the Reformation. Now we are shoving dates and places down our throats, in the form of flash-cards. No more fun, no more learning to love it. No more experiences! So now it is vital trying to create that balance, that can work- for the college system, the student and me the teacher. Gone are the days, of just filling out an application and taking an exam. Throw out what you experienced twenty years ago. It is so much more. I hate the process- I hate the exams, but with applications up like 75 percent - Guess what tests matter and I hate it! Hate it , Hate it, Hate it! So now I am done ranting and raving- How do you feel about the tests? Really for homeschoolers they count so much more- __________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloridaLisa Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 (edited) So now we are winding down the school year, and I hate to see middle school officially come to a close in a couple of months. I hate the fact now, that you really have to concentrate on tests. I hate the fact, that the SAT/ ACT ‘s now demand so much attention. I hate the fact that the classes we are taking really have to count. It just squashes the love of learning. It just makes you teach to a test. It takes years for kids to rebound and start to love learning, and some never do rebound. Some people never pick up another book again. I hate what the system does to people. It stresses parents out, kids learn, but really don’t enjoy the process of learning . High school squashes that excitement for learning , it deflates and makes you have to stay on some type of yucky schedule, to make sure that you are ready for an exam. Take for instance the AP European History exam. If we focus on that next year, we spend only two days on the Renaissance and two days on the Reformation. Now we are shoving dates and places down our throats, in the form of flash-cards. No more fun, no more learning to love it. No more experiences! :grouphug: :chillpill: ;) (whispering) Don't let this get out or this board would be wildly popular, but high school can actually be the *best* years of homeschooling! It's really not all tests and function over form and practical over ideal! It's not. It might be for some. It probably is for many schools. But we get to create what we want! Some of my favorite times have been training and then watching my dc debate their hearts out; conversing deeply about questions of theology and Bible and worldview; reading GB and really good books with my kids; dissecting frogs and flowers and isolating DNA from frozen peas. We still read aloud, they still read *a lot* for pleasure, we still take field trips (that are more like university guest speakers or Shakespeare plays). My high schoolers are more fun, more funny and more capable. The fruit is beginning to ripen right in front of my eyes and it's a-m-a-z-i-n-g. Yes, there are SATs, but it hasn't really derailed one bit of the academics we're doing this year. Yes, we've chosen some APs. But you can choose only the APs that will complement your ideal -- such as AP languages or AP maths or science or music theory or Eng. language or Eng. lit. There are hoops that we have to jump through. And it looks daunting (and may be. I've yet to get my first into college). But the high school years, even really rigorous ones, should not be about teaching to the test. There are better ways. And there is balance. HTH, Lisa P.S. Just thought of the AP US Government class that I'm teaching this year. This has been a rich, full class of government and constitutional law. It's been discussion-centered. This week, we'll finish our regular semester and I will just now start serious exam review or *teaching to the test* only with those who are sitting for the AP. Edited March 17, 2009 by FloridaLisa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle in AL Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 :iagree: High school is really enjoyable for everyone in our family. They begin to form ideas and opinions and learn to express themselves. For our family, we've found that AP tests or accelerated classes work best for the areas they're interested in. We take more leisurely time for other subjects such as Great Books and history. Except for the one area they have to work harder in for AP (we've only done one so far) we really don't concentrate on the tests. If their best can't be done after wrestling with math, reading and analyzing great books and throwing in a little logic, than I guess it can't be done. We will do ACT/SAT test prep during the summer, but I won't teach to the test. High school is where it all comes together and you start to really see them take off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lux Et Veritas Academy Posted March 17, 2009 Author Share Posted March 17, 2009 Ok Keep it coming I am feeling more inspired- share more PLEASE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nan in Mass Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 My first one went to public school and burned out and refused to go to college (until a few years later - and he still is scarred and it has affected his choice of classes). We rescued my second one from public school before he could lose his sweetness. He is wired a bit differently, so it was obvious that he wouldn't win the testing game. And then he turned out to be empathic and decided to try to save the world. He made it very easy to ignore the whole testing scene and concentrate on educating him, when he wasn't busy doing more important things. And they truly were more important, not just gymnastics and such-like. Now I'm looking at the third child. This one could perhaps win the testing game, if we wanted to push him into it. And this one might be worth pushing into it, since I suspect he would fit nicely into one of the polytechnics. But I can't figure out if I want to. What if he does what the older one did? What if we don't and he isn't competative and can't get into one of the funner sorts of engineering schools? I don't know. Meanwhile, he's gone off to save the world and I can't even finish this year's math book with him. He says there's no hurry, is there, and can't he do both. Well... With the middle one we just concentrated on educating that particular child for an interesting, productive adulthood, and ignored the entire college question except to have him take the SATs and a selection of different subjects at community college (to validate his ungraded, undated transcript from me). And he himself sorted out the whole college thing - choosing what he wanted to do and where to go and really applying himself to his CC classes and talking his older brother into going first. If I could be sure that my youngest would come up with some spectacular engineering projects on his own, I would be less worried about the whole getting-into-college thing. Or if he were academic-minded, I would just push either earlier community college classes or AP classes and know he would enjoy them. Or check out IB or something. I don't think he'd like that, though. Sigh. I am totally with you on your rant. I found a way out of it for the middle one, and I'm hoping I find a way out for the youngest, too. I think the answer might lie in large interesting projects... -Nan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwen in VA Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 My older two kids TESTED --5-6 AP's each, 5 SAT2's each, PSAT, SAT, etc. At least we didn't do the NLE or the chemistry Olympiad --we knew when enough was enough! A couple of thoughts -- 1) Lots of folks thought we were absolutely insane to do as much testing as we did. Many folks don't. If your kid is aiming at a competitive college or is seriously pursuing merit aid, doing lots of testing is a good idea, but testing is not REQUIRED. The amount of testing you do should depend on your kid's goals. 2) Even if your kid's goals indicate that he should do a lot of testing, testing is a small part of high school. SAT2 and AP testing comes at the end of studying a subject and is a sort of capstone. My older two got a fiendish delight out of really studying and learning the material and knowing it cold. That skill of being able to mentally collate all the material from one subject together has proved VERY useful in college! 3) My kids actually liked some of their AP/SAT2 subjects because those subjects ENDED. We never ever actually cover the material I want to cover, so my kids are always doing school over the summer to catch up. (Draconian homeschooler here!) If they did an AP exam in a a subject, though, the subject was then OVER. 4) Some kids actually enjoy the testing and "proving" that they know their stuff, possibly like a swimmer enjoys meets or a pianist enjoys recitals. My kids honestly enjoyed the testing. 4) Learning in an intense study-intensive manner may not be "natural" and may not be like the homeschooling we did in the elementary years, but it is the kind of studying that college requires. My kids found that by learning that skill in high school they have much more time to do extracurriculars and to really excel academically in college. 5) If your child absolutely HATES tests, he may require a different kind of approach in high school. My ds2 is not a tester or a study-er -- he's a hands-on kind of guy -- and he will not be doing the array of tests that my older two did. He will be doing more CC classes and overall his education will be a bit less rigorous. My kids would say that testing was an important part of their high school education, but it was not the dominant part of it. The most memorable parts are the discussions, the learning, the ideas that get tossed around. And I think that that part of education is more exciting in high school than at any other time. Do I miss doing endless read-alouds, keeping nature journals, and pursuing random interests for weeks? Yes -- but I also miss my kids sitting in my lap and playing string games. Time marches on. High school is the most fun, nerve-wracking, challenging part of homeschooling. It's better than a roller-coaster and much more rewarding! :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori D. Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 (edited) Our 1.5 years of high school has been the BEST so far of our 9.5 years of homeschooling! Our boys are 9th and 10th grades. Now, perhaps this is because neither is looking towards a math or science field career, and are probably headed more towards media arts of some sort, BUT... We too read aloud and take our time -- and make our own booklists! We are creating our own courses to pursue individual interests, give them life skills, and to continue to help them *think* critically -- which is far more important to us than prepping for and taking loads of tests. I'm not even thinking college is a must anymore for us -- I'm trying to listen to what the Lord is saying we need to do for each individual child as far as academics, life skills, and character building, NOW, in the little bit of a window we have left for speaking into their lives as parents while they live at home -- and let the Lord prepare the place for higher education if that is His plan for each child. He is bigger than all of my plans, schedules, fretting, prepping, and pushing! :tongue_smilie: We, too, take time for reading aloud, field trips, discussing, and learning together. This is the last of our family time of learning together daily, and I refuse to let "counting hours" or "test prep" or "requirements" dictate what our homeschooling is all about. Mary Schofield's homeschool conference seminar was *very* freeing in this area! -- Making school about the Lord's priorities and your family, and then seeing how all those things work together to fullfil those pesky "requirements" -- rather than letting the world, the "requirements," and the colleges run us. You might find her book helpful and encouraging, too: "The High School Handbook" "http://www.amazon.com/High-School-Handbook-Junior-Too/dp/0966093771/ref=sr_1_14?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1237342444&sr=8-14 End of *my* rant! (:lol: BEST of luck in finding your way through the ending of one season of homeschooling and the start of a new one, Lux! Warmest regards, Lori D. Edited March 18, 2009 by Lori D. corrected grammar errors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nan in Mass Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 I think I can answer your basic question - is there a way to go to college but not do all those tests. I think it depends on what sort of college you want to go to, and what sort of children you have. If you have extraordinary children who do extraordinary things and you are aiming for ivy league, you don't have to test. Their education will probably speak for itself. If you have more ordinary children and aren't aiming for a very selective college, then you have some options other than going the testing route. You can go to community college and then transfer to a four year college. Or you can take just a few community college or university classes to validate your mummy transcript. Or you can take outside classes in a few academic subjects to validate it, through Keystone or the Florida virtual school or one of the many other online or correspondence classes. Or you can just take a few SAT2s or CLEPs in a few subjects after you study them, without doing lots of prep. You probably will have to take the SATs or ACTs, but again, if you don't need to score extraordinarily high, you can just take them without doing prep. You'll probably do fine, if you know how to write an essay, have read lots, and are on grade level in math (at least in the SATs - I know nothing about the ACTs). You only really have problems if you are competing for scholarships or if you have a more ordinary child who is trying to get into a more selective school. Then it seems like you need to either go the testing route, or you need to make that child extraordinary somehow, like with lots of interesting projects, along with somehow demonstrating to colleges that he or she will be able to succeed in college. If you aren't aiming for the last, I think you can do as you like. We spent a few months on Plato's Republic and it didn't hurt my son's college application, but I suspect that is because the college isn't selective and they had some way of assessing him (community college classes). They seemed only to be interested in his brother and those CC classes at the interview. The reason I'm worrying is because my youngest son lands in that last catagory. -Nan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JennW in SoCal Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 It absolutely is a wonderful period of homeschooling!! Like the others here, I've tailored courses to fit the interests of each teen, have spent time reading aloud and exploring, going deep as they'd like into subjects. My oldest has had the freedom to put in countless hours learning about theater lighting and church tech. It's been wonderful watching him mature into a trusted and respected "techie". He isn't heading to a 4 year college so I have so far dodged the testing bullet, but his younger brother is thinking sciences at a small liberal arts college, so I guess I'll get to experience the testing side of things too. Don't forget that as your kids continue to mature they will "own" their need to study and prepare for whatever tests they decide they will need. Post high school life, whether college or work, is a powerful motivator for all of them, and you'll be surprised to see them make some tough choices and stick with them. Standardized tests stink, but they are a game that your kids can figure out. It doesn't have to take over life or change the flavor of your homeschool. You don't have to deal with tests next year, but should start talking about college and figuring out what your kids will want, then base your testing choices on that. So come on in! The water's fine! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jellogirl Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 In my experience, teaching to the test is stupid! I have found that the children who learn the really important stuff, like how to think and use words, which is exactly what homeschooling teaches best, are the children who are going to do best on standardized tests. Yes, there are some children who need special work to learn to take tests well, but that's because of the format, not the content. Besides, the ACT and SAT aren't really tests you can teach to. Anyway, teach your kids what matters and enjoy exploring. Then, when they get to high school and the tests matter, read a test prep book or two, do some practice tests, and work on the things they have difficulty with. You can still explore and do fun things, especially if you choose literature based programs over textbooks. While the test scores do matter, I disagree with those who base their entire high school experience around them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpupg Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 ... and looking for ways to cope. At the same time, I'm looking forward to exploring philosophy, lit, & history (especially) with increasingly adult-level discussions, etc. I heard a quote from William F. Buckley: "In order to get a high grade on the SAT, you don't have to know what the right answer is; you have to know what the shnook who made up the question thought the right answer is." OK, I can deal with that. I am working on teaching this concept to my ds14, who is one of those kids who reads so much into everything, wants to know all the details and how they all fit together into Ultimate Truth. He will see it as "dumbing things down," which might cause an attitude problem :001_huh: But if he understands these are the hoops he has to jump through in order to get to the place he wants to go, I think he'll be fine. Real life really is full of hoops ... just think of the License Bureau, etc. Sigh. As Steven Covey says, "Begin with the end in mind." Well, testing is a cross, but it will not last for very long, in the end. Karen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nan in Mass Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Tests are full of assumptions. We who have been to school and done many tests don't tend to see the assumptions, but they are there. My two favourite examples from my youngest are his question about whether when they said sponge the sponge was wet or dry, and his wail that it had taken him forever to learn that in math problems, all the children were identical and had nothing in their pockets, and it was unfair that now that he was doing physics, that wasn't true any more (question about reaction times). Only practice helps with this, I think. Learning from a textbook was something we had to work at. I talked to someone who was from Cuba, and she said that although her education had been a good one, when she came here, she had a horrible time learning to do multiple choice questions. She said it is a cultural thing. I never understood the complaint that the SAT is culturally biased because the only example I'd seen given was "regatta", but now that I've watched my children struggle to learn to answer textbook questions, I understand much better. The problem is much more complicated than just not knowing wasp vocabulary. My father always taught us to "play stupid" on tests. Never, ever make your children take a true-false test GRIN. These are the worst! I found that sometimes telling my children to pick the "best" (as in the most right or the most common or the most likely statistically) answer sometimes helped. He also told me to guess 1 or 0 if I had to guess, to remember that sometimes none-of-the-above or undefined is the answer, to look for the answer in another question, or guess by the way the question is worded or by the way the answers are worded. Watching my children struggle with this made me want to strangle all textbook and test writers. It is amazing how unclear the questions are. I think I know the answer and tell my children they are wrong, and then they explain their answer and I can see that they might perfectly well be right, if you look at the question that way. Ug ug ug. Nan, definately ranting... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpupg Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Nan -- yes, yes, yes ... I feel your pain LOL. Karen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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