eksargent Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 This is my 1st year homeschooling. Saxon seemed wonderful. I'm sure it works for MANY...just not me! My ds is 9 (4th grade). I started him with Saxon 3. The meetings were dreadful. It was way below his level. So I started skipping stuff...only to find out I would need info that I had skipped to do the following lessons. I ditched 3 and bought 4. It went a little better. It just does not flow with us. Go here, do this, go back there, do that, tell me this answer, you fill this out, where is the timer. UGGG! I want something simple and to the point. I don't want to spend time on the process. I want our time focused on the lesson. So, any suggestion? Please bail me out of this one! I'm even thinking of ditching Saxon 4 and getting some Kumon workbooks just to finish this year. Please help!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurelia Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 I've got no experience with Saxon, but from what I've read, you're not the first with this problem. We like Right Start, but it's got a lot of pieces - it works best if I lay everything out the day before. For just a "get it done" thing I would go with Kumon or Math Mammoth (or a combo if one doesn't have all the topics you need to cover). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TKDmom Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 I really like Singapore math. When I looked at Saxon, the spiral approach seemed too repetitive. Singapore is very straight forward. If your child gets it the first time, you can move on to the next lesson. If they need more practice, there are plenty of resources that you can spend some time on to really reinforce concepts. You can go to SingaporeMath.com to look at sample pages and take a placement test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudoMom Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Did you give your ds the placement test? It sounds to me like you haven't found the right level. The format changes in 5/4 & up to a textbook approach instead of the workbook format. How is Saxon working with your younger son? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JenAL Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Have you looked at CLE? We haven't used it yet, but will be using it next year. I have the placement tests & I am impressed with the material. I've hear many wonderful reviews for CLE, too. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommy22alyns Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 I had a similar problem with Saxon. I recommend Singapore too. Much more straightforward and no jumping around! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eksargent Posted March 16, 2009 Author Share Posted March 16, 2009 I wanted to make sure ds got a firm foundation on math. I wanted to make sure we got the hang of homeschooling before I jumped into the hard work. That is why I chose Saxon 3. He did test higher. However, being our first year homeschooling, I wanted to build his confidence and establish our routine. For ds 7 in Saxon 1...same problems. I have reduced his math lesson to the homework part only. He does other math worksheets from Jump Start and Brain Quest. I will switch him to the same program I choose for ds 9. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaurieinCA Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 :iagree:Singapore Math sounds like the way to go. We do BOTH Saxon and Singapore... but for Saxon, we do only the odd problems. 4th grade would be aligned with Saxon 54 for an average math student, 76 for a gifted one, at least to meet up with our state standards (California). There is now a "new" Saxon program that is supposedly better aligned to grade levels, which is Saxon 4 for 4th grade. Is this the one you tried? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nan in Mass Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Saxon didn't work for us, either. It chopped everything into little pieces and my children couldn't put them back together into the whole picture. (Lots of people can, just not mine.) It seemed to work, at least they got the problems right, but they couldn't apply their math to anything else. We switched to Singpore and it not only worked, but fixed the bad mathematical thinking created by Saxon. Just be sure to take the placement test and follow it. Singapore goes fast, so even though my 6th grader had to back up to PM3, he began algebra in 9th grade, only a little late considering that he had to repeat almost all of the math he'd done in K-5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PollyOR Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 I wanted a traditional math program, so we switched from Saxon (used K-54) to Rod & Staff. It has reading problems and review in every lesson. I think it is solid. There are many great math programs available to homeschoolers. Looking at samples online may help you narrow down what type of program will be a good fit for you and your children. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaniceO Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 This is our first year homeschooling and we had the same problem with Saxon (except x3 because I used it with all 3 boys). Next year I will be using CLE with my younger 2 and Teaching Textbooks with my oldest. Hopefully those will be better fits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catholicmommy Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 This is the exact problem I had with saxon too... I just HATED it for all the same reasons and dropped it mid year. (we were doing saxon 3 as well). I switched to Horizons which I like a lot, but am thinking about singapore possibly for next year. Horizons only goes up to grade 6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PollyOR Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Singapore R&S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Did you not give your dc the placement test? That would be my first suggestion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudoMom Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 I wanted to make sure ds got a firm foundation on math. I wanted to make sure we got the hang of homeschooling before I jumped into the hard work. That is why I chose Saxon 3. He did test higher. However, being our first year homeschooling, I wanted to build his confidence and establish our routine. For ds 7 in Saxon 1...same problems. I have reduced his math lesson to the homework part only. He does other math worksheets from Jump Start and Brain Quest. I will switch him to the same program I choose for ds 9. I understand :001_smile:. People either love Saxon or hate it, it seems. Since y'all fall on the hate side, I would consider dropping it and doing a workbook like the Flash Kids series while you check out the other programs available. I hope you find the perfect fit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willow Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 We changed to MUS and we love it. As he is bright we don't do ALL of every lesson (7 pages per lesson) we normally do 1 practice plus 1 review, and a test every couple of weeks or so. But the other pages are there if you need them. Some people think it is not rigorous enough at high school level, but we will be finished 'early' and can do a rigorous version in later High school years, or not if they are not following a math route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3byzaz Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 We have tried a bunch of Math programs and have been soooo very thankful to find CLE. It is outstanding! My boys love it and I love it too. I never loved any other math. I knew Saxon would not be good for us, so I haven't tried that though. I hear good things about Rod and Staff too--it is more mastery and CLE is more spiral. But, I think both of them are not solely that. R&S has review and CLE is not toooo spiral. I like that CLE is a workbook with plenty of room to write and it is in bite size chunks and covers all the bases painlessly. My favorite thing about it is that the instruction is written to the child so that they can understand it. Little help is needed from mom, but can definitely be provided. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2cents Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Check out A Beka too. It is a challenging math and has short and concise directions and plenty of practice with new and old concepts. Be sure to check out the placement tests before you buy though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JenniferB Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Rod & Staff is very stright forward. The Teacher's Manual tells you exactly what to explain or do on the board, gives oral drill exercises, and written practice for the student. The student has his own book, which is just a hard bound text book. It's right on grade level, and teaches in the traditional way. It comes with lots of drill and tests, which you can opt to use or not use. You can do everything in each lesson for lots of practice, or you can pair it down to what your son needs for mastery. It's very easy to assign even or odd problems to cut down on the written work, or just have him do it all, if he needs it. I really recommend it, and it's inexpensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angela&4boys Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 For the math savvy, Singapore is excellent. I have two friends whose children have loved it. For my middle two guys, Math U See fits the bill. It is straight-forward, logical, and sequential. If you like a more traditional approach, then Rod & Staff and CLE are excellent choices as others have recommended. Saxon is designed for the classroom and caused many a frustration when we used it for our eldest. He did and did it well, but dreaded it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yslek Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Saxon didn't work for us, either. It chopped everything into little pieces and my children couldn't put them back together into the whole picture. (Lots of people can, just not mine.) I think this is such an important point. I was the opposite of your dc in this regard. I did really well in math until I started Algebra in 7th grade. I didn't get it. At all. Ditto for Geometry. [i don't think (though I could be wrong here) that it was an issue with going into abstract thinking too early, as I had done simple Algebra in school in Germany when I was much younger, and was engaging in abstract thinking in other subjects.] Then I switched school districts. My friends who already went to school there warned me about Saxon (which was being implemented by the school) but I had no choice. Saxon's Algebra 2 was an absolute life-saver for me. Finally I got it, could do it, and felt math-smart again. :) I don't have much trouble integrating small pieces into the big picture, though. It takes much more effort to be presented with the big picture and have to deal with all of the little details. My dd seems to be more like you describe your children;I will not be using Saxon with her. I find this take on brain types fascinating: http://www.organizedworld.com/ (And here is a short quiz: http://www.organizedworld.com/quiz.html) Apparently the brain is divided by fissures into four quadrants, and each person has a "preferred" quadrant. Mine is the right-front, or "Innovator" style. It would be interesting to compile a list of people by brain type & math programs that did/didn't work for them. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julieofsardis Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 I wanted a traditional math program, so we switched from Saxon (used K-54) to Rod & Staff. It has reading problems and review in every lesson. I think it is solid. There are many great math programs available to homeschoolers. Looking at samples online may help you narrow down what type of program will be a good fit for you and your children. Good luck! :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bnbacademy Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 We use Math U See here. Uses manipulatives and lessons build on each other. Word problems throughout each lesson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TracyR Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Christian Light is working really well for us. Its like Saxon but on steriods. Its very independent to use and the lessons are straight and to the point. No , go here , do this , take this , no timers either :>) Its just open and go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rainforest mama Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 We have used Singapore since DD10 was pre-school and we love it. To me the way they teach math makes so much sense. I took math through high school, but even though DD is only in 4B, I am already learning things. To me, Singapore teaches the answer to the "why" and not just the "how" to do math. Of course, like other posters have mentioned, there is no "one size fits all" in math. What works for us may not work for someone else. That's why there are so many options. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulcindy Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 I have to agree about CLE Math. It is self teaching, spiral, and SO easy to use. Similar to Saxon in approach, but 1000% easier to teach, and no supplementing needed. We used CLE before going to Teaching Textbooks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastian (a lady) Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 This is my 1st year homeschooling. Saxon seemed wonderful. I'm sure it works for MANY...just not me! My ds is 9 (4th grade). I started him with Saxon 3. The meetings were dreadful. It was way below his level. So I started skipping stuff...only to find out I would need info that I had skipped to do the following lessons. I ditched 3 and bought 4. It went a little better. It just does not flow with us. Go here, do this, go back there, do that, tell me this answer, you fill this out, where is the timer. UGGG! I want something simple and to the point. I don't want to spend time on the process. I want our time focused on the lesson. So, any suggestion? Please bail me out of this one! I'm even thinking of ditching Saxon 4 and getting some Kumon workbooks just to finish this year. Please help!!! We have only used Saxon. Some times were bumpier than others. Like you, I've found the meetings to sometimes be really repetetive. But when I skipped them entirely, I realized to my sorrow that something in the lesson was building a basis for a new concept (say counting how many days in XX number of weeks, which builds a foundation for the 7 times facts). I also had a very bright kid who started to just shut down and freak about math. A couple of suggestions for using what you have now. (Another program might be a solution, but you might not want to switch again for various reasons.) -Is he at the right place in the book you're using? Meaning that it is new material but he's still grasping it well. Some people give just the tests when they start a new book in order to skip lessons that are too much review (especially if there wasn't a long summer break between books). You might give a week of tests with a fact sheet until you get to the point where he's not getting 100%. The start there. -Do you have everything handy for the lesson or are you spending a lot of time looking for stuff? I think there is a section in the beginning of the TM that lists every lesson and the supplies needed for that lesson. If not, you might have to just look ahead a week or so at a time. Collect everything you need for a batch of lessons (a week or two) into one basket that is easy to move to where ever you do math. You can even have pencil, eraser and sharpener there if you need to. Have a timer that stays with the math stuff. Have manipulatives ready. Have master sheets ready. This is a matter of shifting the process time of gathering supplies to some other time well before lesson time. Your kid might even be able to collect stuff for the week if you give him a list (say a list of things that always need to be there along with the list for the week). -Move the meeting to a different time so the math lesson doesn't seem so long. Breakfast time might be good for this. Time how long a meeting lasts from beginning to end. You might be surprised at how quickly it goes if you have everything ready. -Set a consistent time for math in the day. I've found my kids react worst when things aren't at the same point in time every day. Some families work best with math in the morning so it is out of the way. Others like it last so that after math, they are done done done. Whatever. Just build a consistent pattern. Your goal here is to push the conscienceness of the process to the background as it becomes routine. -Don't beat the dead horse. If he really has mastered a concept (say a fact sheet within a certain target time) then cut it down to less often unless his time slips. If he can do all the fact cards perfectly, then give him the next day off. Or make a stack of just the fact cards that he has problems with. He drills those on everyday and only does the full set twice a week. -Finally, if you do decide to stay with Saxon for further years, you might want to look at skipping a book. We went from 3 directly into 6/5. There was some bumpiness to the transition but we worked it out. Don't get hung up on the numbers or the assigned level, no matter what math program you're using. They aren't always going to fit the age or grade level, especially if you change programs. You don't get worked up if ds's shoe size and grade or age don't match do you? Neither do numbers on math books and grades have to always align. I hope some of this is helpful. I just thought that you might not be in a position to just switch to a different program. And other programs might have other issues that you have to work through instead. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKS Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Singapore. The time we save doing the regular lessons in Singapore (as compared to Saxon) is used to do the supplemental workbooks (Intensive Practice and Challenging Word Problems). Even with all of that I think we are still saving time. The supplements add depth and extra review to the program. We use the mental math in the back of the Instructor's Guide as well as a Flashmaster for drill. It just works better for us and my son's math experience is far richer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
songbirdie Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 I see several people recommending Singapore in this thread. You may want to remember that if this were a thread saying you were frustrated with Singapore, there would be just as many people recommending Saxon to you. I would highly recommend that you go to the Sonlight website and point your cursor to "Subjects", click on "Math", click on "Singapore". From there you can scroll down to the level of math you think you'd be doing and click on "view samples". There will be several samples of pages from the student books, as well as samples from the teacher manuals. No single math program will work for everyone, and it really helps to look at something yourself before you buy it. Sonlight also offers a money-back option, so you could order the Singapore, or Miquon, or whatever and look carefully through it and send it back if you don't like it. I don't like either one-you really may want to check it out before committing.:001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudoMom Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 I see several people recommending Singapore in this thread. You may want to remember that if this were a thread saying you were frustrated with Singapore, there would be just as many people recommending Saxon to you. I would highly recommend that you go to the Sonlight website and point your cursor to "Subjects", click on "Math", click on "Singapore". From there you can scroll down to the level of math you think you'd be doing and click on "view samples". There will be several samples of pages from the student books, as well as samples from the teacher manuals. No single math program will work for everyone, and it really helps to look at something yourself before you buy it. Sonlight also offers a money-back option, so you could order the Singapore, or Miquon, or whatever and look carefully through it and send it back if you don't like it. I don't like either one-you really may want to check it out before committing.:001_smile: This is great advice. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eksargent Posted March 26, 2009 Author Share Posted March 26, 2009 I have officially removed Saxon from my shelf. After some input from the posts and more research...I went with Christian Light. I just got it yesterday and I am SO excited! I love the way the lessons are arranged. I anticipate my son will be able to pick it up quickly and learn efficiently. I like the approach of mastering a skill before moving on...not just exposing them to it. I like the daily drills, the pretest before lessons to reinforce the previous lesson, and use of flash cards. It seems like we can get to the "meat" of learning right from the start. And, it is super cheap! Today will be my first day...so wish me luck. I don't think I can bear yet another math catastrophe. Not to mention the panic that sets in when it is late March and we have nothing to show for math! Thanks to all who posted! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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