R&S alone not enough for writing?

[Robyn]

As I plan for next year, I've been pouring over my copy of TWTM. I have found myself coming back to SWBs recommendations over and over and wondering why I just didn't do that in the first place.

 

I plan to use R&S 5 for grammar next year and I think it would really simplify things to use this for writing as well. Then I read here and on the CW site about what a great and thorough program CW is. Am I robbing ds of something crucial if I don't use a writing program like this? We have gone through WT1, which was too easy this year. I could move on to WT2 and then CW Homer, or I could just streamline and use R&S for writing and grammar. I want to give ds the best I can offer to him, but really, I could save both time and money by sticking with one program.

 

If you use R&S for grammar, but not for writing, why? Am I going to miss out on something great here?

Maybe I just shouldn't read these boards so much.:lol:

[Staci in MO]

My pattern over the past few years is to get my head turned by something else, struggle, then go back to what SWB recommended in the first place.

 

I HIGHLY recommend Susan's CD "Writing Without Fear". It's a recording of a talk she gave at a homeschool conference. She expounds on the "why" behind her recommendations a bit more in that. You could also get her book, Writing Without Fear. It's focus is mostly grades 1 - 4, but she touches on the higher grades in the introduction. But the CD is the most helpful to me.

 

R&S is enough for writing, provided that the student is also doing narration, dictation, and outlining from history and science.

 

Some people really like CW, but a lot of people crash and burn on it after a while because there's so much. It appears that most of the people who stick with it modify it extensively.

 

Susan's opinion is that it is better to hold off on the progym until high school, when the student is better able to handle it.

[Robyn]

WWE is on my wish list. I would like to use it with my little one when we get there. Maybe I should go ahead and pick it up now. I'll look into the cd too.

Thanks. I am feeling reassured.

[Colleen in NS]

As I plan for next year, I've been pouring over my copy of TWTM. I have found myself coming back to SWBs recommendations over and over and wondering why I just didn't do that in the first place.

 

I plan to use R&S 5 for grammar next year and I think it would really simplify things to use this for writing as well. Then I read here and on the CW site about what a great and thorough program CW is. Am I robbing ds of something crucial if I don't use a writing program like this? We have gone through WT1, which was too easy this year. I could move on to WT2 and then CW Homer, or I could just streamline and use R&S for writing and grammar. I want to give ds the best I can offer to him, but really, I could save both time and money by sticking with one program.

 

If you use R&S for grammar, but not for writing, why? Am I going to miss out on something great here?

Maybe I just shouldn't read these boards so much.:lol:

 

I think that there are progym skills in programs like CW that are introduced at earlier ages. But I think that these same skills are introduced in the WTM high school suggestions and the PHP site high school suggestions.

 

http://www.peacehillpress.com/index.asp?PageAction=Custom&ID=15

 

Note also that R&S is recommended for middle grades, but CW is not rec'd until high school.

 

I've depended on WTM and WWE to coach me on teaching writing, so when I see other programs being talked about, I look into them out of curiosity about what I might be missing. Nothing makes as much sense to me, though, as what I learned from WTM and WWE. I like that SWB seems to emphasize working a lot on basic skills (getting thoughts into words, words onto paper, outlining another writer's thoughts, rewriting from those outlines to see how thoughts get put together) before getting into more complex writing in high school. And I like how R&S writing lessons give me info. on how to teach my kids to write clear paragraphs in the middle grades. I can easily use the info. from these lessons to help my kids as they write their narrations and outlines every week in history, science, and literature.

 

I chose R&S for the same reasons you mentioned - ease and cost, and because it was the top rec. in WTM. I also keep sticking with SWB's suggestions because I knew zilcho about teaching writing and her ideas have clarified so much for me - so I'm sticking with her coaching - she's practical, down to earth, and explains things in simple ways that even I can understand. :lol: She's got lots of experience teaching writing from K to university.

 

If you want to use R&S for grammar and writing because of ease and cost, I don't think you'll miss anything crucial, if you like WTM and continue to follow the recs there (and updated ones on the PHP site I linked).

 

I'll look into the cd too.

 

I bought the CD a few years ago and it was very helpful. Also, chapters 3 and 4 of WWE contain all the info. (and more) that are in the writing CD. You can read them in full at this link:

 

http://www.peacehillpress.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=111

Edited March 12, 2009 by Colleen in NS

[Robyn]

Thanks for the feedback. I am always worried that I am missing something amazing and then I end up overwhelmed.

[HiddenJewel]

R&S's writing instruction increases with each year. You can see the table of contents here.

[Colleen in NS]

I am always worried that I am missing something amazing and then I end up overwhelmed.

 

me too. All the time.:D

[Colleen in NS]

http://www.peacehillpress.com/index.asp?PageAction=Custom&ID=15

 

Note also that R&S is recommended for middle grades, but CW is not rec'd until high school.

 

Uh oh! I need to correct myself. I just discovered on another thread that there are samples from the new WTM available, and the logic stage writing section DOES have a review of CW - pros and cons of using it, and how you know if it's right for your student in logic stage. It's a good read. Here's the link:

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/wtmchap17.php

 

You have to scroll about halfway down a long page to get to the "Writing" section - look for CW there.

 

hth!!

[Sherri in MI]

In fact, SWB, I think in a review on the reviews section of the website, recommends Rod & Staff for grammar AND writing through 5th grade. I think after that she recommends a separate writing program or supplement.

 

I will eventually add IEW.

 

HTH,

 

Sherri

[Lovedtodeath]

Wow Colleen! Great links! I will hold on to those.

[Colleen in NS]

In fact, SWB, I think in a review on the reviews section of the website, recommends Rod & Staff for grammar AND writing through 5th grade. I think after that she recommends a separate writing program or supplement.

 

I will eventually add IEW.

 

HTH,

 

Sherri

 

I'm not positive, but I think that review was written before the 2004 WTM edition came out and rec'd R&S for grammar and writing up to level 10 because they had extended their program to that level. Not positive though.:)

 

EDIT: I'm just mentioning this because it has been helpful for me to have an idea of the timeline of changes in recommendations.

Edited March 13, 2009 by Colleen in NS

[Robyn]

Uh oh! I need to correct myself. I just discovered on another thread that there are samples from the new WTM available, and the logic stage writing section DOES have a review of CW - pros and cons of using it, and how you know if it's right for your student in logic stage. It's a good read. Here's the link:

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/wtmchap17.php

 

You have to scroll about halfway down a long page to get to the "Writing" section - look for CW there.

 

hth!!

 

 

Thanks again Colleen. I did read the other thread. I also spent some time last night reading the rhetoric section in my 2nd edition of WTM. It seems that if I follow TWTM recommendations through high school, the progym will be covered then anyways. So, it looks like he won't be missing out in the long run after all. CW sounds like an excellent program, but realistically, I know my limits and I think that it will be overkill for us at this point. We already have a full day and with my little guy clamoring to "do school too" there is only so much I can accomplish and stay sane. I can always reevaluate next year.