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RJH

Punishment for 5 year old with a smart mouth?

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DD5 is having a very smart mouth lately. She is corrected every single time, and told it is not OK to speak that way. And I give her a more appropriate way to say what she is trying to say (if it applies). This is not working. We have tried timeouts and taking things away, too. She seems to thrive on negative attention she gets from it. We have also tried ignoring it....didn't work either. This is all new to us because DS has never had any behavior problems. What types of punishments or techniques have worked for you?

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My oldest gets worse with punishment, which is what drove me to re-evaluate my whole parenting paradigm.

 

When you give her a do-over with a script, how does she respond? In what situations and how, specifically, is she disrespectful?

 

Also, my kids' attitude and behavior often take a nose dive with too much screen time. Over the years, certain peers seem to also exacerbate the tendency.

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My oldest gets worse with punishment, which is what drove me to re-evaluate my whole parenting paradigm.

 

When you give her a do-over with a script, how does she respond? In what situations and how, specifically, is she disrespectful?

 

Also, my kids' attitude and behavior often take a nose dive with too much screen time. Over the years, certain peers seem to also exacerbate the tendency.

 

She will repeat the do-over when I tell her. I think some of the things she says, she doesn't even understand what they mean. She does realize that they aren't nice though. Today for example, I told her to not let the dogs in her room, her response was "quit irritating me!". I don't think she quite knows what irritate means, but she did know it wasn't nice to say.

 

This afternoon DH told her to be quiet for a minute, her response was "Well, you need to be quiet, too". :blink: This is obviously not acceptable to say. She has been doing other things lately, too. Like coloring on the underside of the school table, she colored on the laptop earlier today, and hitting her friends.

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So far I correct etc. as things come up but whenever that doesn't work, I turn to Raising A Thinking Child.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Raising-Thinking-Child-Everyday-Conflicts/dp/0671534637

 

I have an alternate reason to why it works :001_smile:: having to stand still or sit with me and discuss the issue at hand is so boring, child resolves to mend his way. A similar situation in response to the "But daaaaaaaad" arguments is presented in Rosemond's book 6 somthingorother for happy,etc children. He'd make the kid rewind and discuss the whole thing from the beginning every time it generated into whining. Kid gives up whining to get what they want.

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I'd spank her.

 

:iagree::iagree:Honestly, I would give a warning for a smart mouth and just say, "The next time you are disrespecful, you are going to get a spanking with the spoon." I would give her a hug and a kiss and then go get the spoon and set it down beside me. If you have ever spanked before, then she'll believe you and it will be done.

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Where is she picking up the attitude and words from? I would cut her off from the source, whether its TV, friends, movies- if you do daycare, is she picking it up from the kids that visit? Or, is she picking up stuff from you?

My kids were very different and my son has always had a temper that is difficult for him to control. Tantrums are just part of his personality. When he was little and he starting understanding swear words, he imitated them when he was upset and angry. We weren't going to allow that...but we compromised with him, made a deal so to speak. He was allowed to use one swear word....it was "bumhead". It made him feel great ,and it wasn't actually offensive to us. Swearing hasnt been an issue since then.

There is a time and place for strict punishment, but it needs to fit in with the child's personality. One thing I have tried to be careful of is going "against" my kids....as in, I would rather they trust me and stay open to me, and me be more lenient with them, than be so strict that they act up only behind my back. I don't know your whole family dynamics, but I would work "with" your daughter rather than directly against her. Try and get her on side. Is she sometimes funny and witty? I would honour that, while guiding her in how and when to use her talent. It is a talent, really...just a misdirected one.

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:iagree::iagree:Honestly, I would give a warning for a smart mouth and just say, "The next time you are disrespecful, you are going to get a spanking with the spoon." I would give her a hug and a kiss and then go get the spoon and set it down beside me. If you have ever spanked before, then she'll believe you and it will be done.

 

 

Yep, warning and a talking first offense. Spank, then another little talk and some hugs.

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I'd spank her.

 

We have tried that, and it doesn't seem to have an effect. I actually swatted her on the butt at the grocery store last weekend(she wasn't listening) and she told me "that didn't hurt". Ugh! And I tend to be a mad spanker...as in I don't do it calmly, so it's more the result of my anger than an effective punishment.

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Where is she picking up the attitude and words from? I would cut her off from the source, whether its TV, friends, movies- if you do daycare, is she picking it up from the kids that visit? Or, is she picking up stuff from you?

 

 

My daycare kids are all under 2 1/2, so it's not from them. But about a month ago she started preschool at a local church, for a couple hours each morning. She really is enjoying it, but maybe she's picking up some bad behaviors there....or the bad behaviors she had already are getting worse. :confused:

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I agree with taking away the source and the swat on the bottom. For a swat to work it does have to sting. In your situation, I would take away a treat, assuming you have treats often enough that you can take them away. A few years ago I had to serve dessert every night so that I had something to take away in order to make a point with a child. He learned very quickly. Dirty mouths don't get tasty food.

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Well, anger spankings are no good, that's for sure. But butt swats are not spankings. Don't get me wrong, I think the Pearls are sickos, but if you're going to spank, the purpose is for it to hurt. And on the butt only.

 

I always got results with spankings, but the spanking window is very narrow. I'd say that at five you've still got room. But again, swats are not spankings.

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Have you practiced appropriate language with her? When she is in a good mood, tell her what is acceptable and what isn't. Then have her practice. Give her ample opportunity to practice her new words.

 

When we tell our dc something, we expect to hear, "Yes, Mom." Cheerfully. That is all. No arguing, no commentary, no whining, no complaining. When it was brand new for them, we used the above approach.

 

I was very surprised with my dc how well this worked.:001_smile: Still does.

 

As another poster asked, where is she getting this language? "Stop irritating me"??? That wouldn't fly with anyone around our home...not tv, not a guest, no adults would ever say it. Kids don't make this stuff up...they hear it from someone. I just saw that was answered...I'd bring her back home.

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Well, anger spankings are no good, that's for sure. But butt swats are not spankings. Don't get me wrong, I think the Pearls are sickos, but if you're going to spank, the purpose is for it to hurt. And on the butt only.

 

I always got results with spankings, but the spanking window is very narrow. I'd say that at five you've still got room. But again, swats are not spankings.

 

Totally agree. I have spanked my three boys, maybe 6 times altogether. Never in anger, but firmly in charge. Once they know that you are serious, the poor behavior will stop, or at least lessen.

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My dd sat on the stairs and when she was older to her room. She eventually got tired of being sent away. My ds acted like nothing mattered but really it did. Whatever you do, don't stop. She'll get tired of it. Work it out now, it won't get easier. But she'll always be cute! :)

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We have tried that, and it doesn't seem to have an effect. I actually swatted her on the butt at the grocery store last weekend(she wasn't listening) and she told me "that didn't hurt". Ugh! And I tend to be a mad spanker...as in I don't do it calmly, so it's more the result of my anger than an effective punishment.

 

This is very difficult and I sympathize. But what you have to do is actually the opposite of what you are doing.

 

Don't be mad, but spank harder. Expressed anger ( of course your angry, but don't yell) takes away your validity. A kid does NOT respect an out of control parent. On the other hand, a spanking, given in love, still has to hurt.

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This is very difficult and I sympathise. But what you have to do is actually the opposite of what you are doing.

 

Don't be mad, but spank harder. Expressed anger ( of course your angry, but don't yell) takes away your validity. A kid does NOT respect an out of control parent. On the other hand, a spanking, given in love, still has to hurt.

 

Yep. My sister kept asking me why my kids were so well behaved (not cowed, not terrified of me, not angry) I told her I spanked when necessary. She said that didn't work for her. I understood once I saw her half heartedly tap her kid on the rump.

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I would put vinegar in her mouth. The apple cider kind works well and is good for them too!

 

That's what I do with my kids - for anything involving the mouth - lying, back talk, etc.

 

It works like a charm. I think I only did it once with dd 1 - a handful of times with dd 2 and maybe 3 times with ds 1. We will see how long it ds 2 when we get there.

 

You can do a spray bottle for good coverage or an eye dropper. Or anything really.

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My ds had the same problem when he was 5 yo. I realized he was trying to express himself, and didn't really know how to put the words together correctly. He still does occasionally. I sat him down and explained to him that he needs to say it in a different way/tone. I told him I will tell him when he does it, and what he needs to say differently.

 

That didn't always work, so I would have him go into time out. He could only get out after his time was up, and he would also have to give me a new more polite way to say whatever it was he said. It took about 6 months or so, but it did pay off.

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Wow...I am so thrilled to hear other parents who spank and not a thread talking about how terrible it is. I am a firm believer in spanking - as long as it is not done in anger, and obviously, appropriately.

 

We have a paddle...just like schools did when I was a kid. I refuse to ever use a belt or any such thing because I was absued with a belt as a child by my dad. However, the kids get to an age where my swat on the bottom through their clothes does not sting at all. So...we got the paddle. It is effective. The kids SEE the paddle and stop immediately. My 5 year old has had maybe 3 spankings in his life...but he is a child that is hurt more by seeing "disappointment" in mom and dad than he is a spanking. My oldest, spankings were all that worked to stop the behavior when he was younger.

 

I would definitely get this behavior under control while she is little. When she is older (say...9), that smart mouth can get WAYYYY worse. :( Ask me how I know...

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She has been doing other things lately, too. Like coloring on the underside of the school table, she colored on the laptop earlier today, and hitting her friends.

 

Is something bothering her? Was there a change in her routine or her diet? My kids will sometimes act that grumpy if they are upset about something else. They tend to be kind of stoic, but once I realize something's up and fish it out of them, we can process that, and that side effect behavior of snapping at loved ones goes away.

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How about a little coarse salt in the mouth? That cured spitting on siblings here in just one day. It is really gross and not nearly as bad as a hot sauce (my friend did this).

 

Of course, I usually recommend a spanking when talking doesn't get the job done.

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I have 3 girls, older, and one 5 year old. He's recently been "sassy" and told me various things that are disrespectful. I might have spanked my daughter, but have somewhat changed my methods. I think there is nothing wrong for spanking, but here's the question. "Do you feel any guilt about spanking?" If so, think of something else. To be effective, you have to be willing to spank each and every time, hard enough for it to be more than just a casual , "ow".

Here's what I have found effective for really the first couple of sassy remarks that he's given me.

He's "grounded" from something like Wii that night. I am calmer than calm. I just say something about how that is rude and disrespectful and one of the things he's not allowed to say. I then say something to the effect of.... saying that means that you get grounded from the Wii tonight. Sorry you made that choice. Then, no matter what is said....no Wii. If he chose to argue, I'd give one warning, with a ....if you argue more, no Wii tomorrow.

He has just tried a couple of really snotty 5 yr old things to say...and I haven't heard any more in the last few days....

I'm pretty sure that this will be how we deal with it. No hot sauce...No horseradish(that's what my mom used...supposedly it's good for your digestions) BUT, I do a "punishment" because...well...I want to make sure it's not worth it.

I don't have a mental problem with spanking, and we still have one thing I'll spank for....(hurting others) but everything else...I talk about...ground and time out... I give lots of choices...and try to ask how he's going to deal with the situation....

A book that might really make sense with you...especially because you do daycare is the Love and Logic Book series...

 

Carrie:-)

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Washing their mouth out with soap can work wonders for some children. It cured ds from spitting on his sister with just one washing! Our pastor and his wife made their dc actually bite the soap, I just use a very soapy rag. God Bless!

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Hobbes seemed to thrive on negative attention at that age too. I started the (counterintuitive) practice of giving him positive attention. So, for some kind of rudeness, I would take him to me and give him a big cuddle, or hug him on my lap. I would tell him how much I loved him, then would gently remind him that he was part of the family, and we all needed to show respect to each other. Strange though it sounds, it really worked, and within days his behaviour began to improve.

 

The way I see it: time outs were pushing him away from me and out of the family. The further away he felt, the harder he tried (unconsciously) to get a reaction out of us by bad behaviour. The cuddles brought him back into the family, making him want to follow our rules.

 

Best wishes

 

Laura

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My daycare kids are all under 2 1/2, so it's not from them. But about a month ago she started preschool at a local church, for a couple hours each morning. She really is enjoying it, but maybe she's picking up some bad behaviors there....or the bad behaviors she had already are getting worse. :confused:

 

Maybe she's picking it up from you. Not trying to disrespect you, but if you spank in anger perhaps you also have a sassy mouth. Often when I see bad behaviors in my children it's like I'm looking in a mirror (and I cringe.)

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Hobbes seemed to thrive on negative attention at that age too. I started the (counterintuitive) practice of giving him positive attention. So, for some kind of rudeness, I would take him to me and give him a big cuddle, or hug him on my lap. I would tell him how much I loved him, then would gently remind him that he was part of the family, and we all needed to show respect to each other. Strange though it sounds, it really worked, and within days his behaviour began to improve.

 

The way I see it: time outs were pushing him away from me and out of the family. The further away he felt, the harder he tried (unconsciously) to get a reaction out of us by bad behaviour. The cuddles brought him back into the family, making him want to follow our rules.

 

Best wishes

 

Laura

 

What a great attitude you have, Laura. I've seen so many kids at that age who thrive on negativity. I'll bet the cuddling and conversation also help put the parent back on track to a more positive outlook, too. To me, soaping or vinegaring the mouth is unthinkable, altho I've heard of it plenty.

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Guest Lorna
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It is illegal to beat children in the UK using an instrument, and to be perfectly honest I feel very sick reading this thread.

 

Five year olds are very young and vulnerable and they should be afforded the same rights to live an abuse-free life as an adult. In fact more so, precisely because they are entrusted to the adult's care and are unable to fight back or report the assault. Your child trusts you and you must never abuse that trust.

And anyway, it doesn't work!

 

My father-in law was born in 1922 and never hit his children (he had seven). He had very strong feelings on this point and always respected his children's well-being. All his children made great successes of their lives and their father was a huge part of all their lives. His opinion counted above all. I have never met someone who had the respect of so many people.

We have two beautifully brought up children who are and always have been complemented on their good manners.

 

I no longer think it is acceptable for me to frequent these boards.

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In other words, if she's doing it for attention, make sure she doesn't get it. I'd sit her down and explain that the way she is speaking to us is unacceptable. I'd make sure she understood that, from that moment on, those kinds of comments would result in immediate banishment to her room (or an uninteresting corner, if that works better) for a specified amount of time.

 

Then, I'd start praising her when she gets things right: Hey, that's the way to do it! I'm much more likely to enjoy spending time with you and do what you want when you speak to me that way.

 

And maybe also when she goes a certain period of time without blowing it. In other words, if she makes it for an hour without saying anything out of line, I'd comment on it: It's nice that you haven't said anything rude in a while. Keep it up!

 

My son, especially, has always responded very well to positive reinforcement. Punishment tends to make him just dig in his heels and become increasingly belligerant and unpleasant. Putting him on notice of what we expect and then praising for it (while isolating for infractions) seems to be the most effective approach for some kids.

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It is illegal to beat children in the UK using an instrument, and to be perfectly honest I feel very sick reading this thread.

 

You know, I hadn't read all the responses before I posted, and I wish I had. I would have stayed out of this entirely. Well, more precisely, I wish I had never read any of it. I agree with you: Reading this makes me want to cry.

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It is illegal to beat children in the UK using an instrument, and to be perfectly honest I feel very sick reading this thread.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, that's what we have all advocated, beating our children.:rolleyes:

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Maybe she's picking it up from you. Not trying to disrespect you, but if you spank in anger perhaps you also have a sassy mouth. Often when I see bad behaviors in my children it's like I'm looking in a mirror (and I cringe.)

 

That's why I have only spanked one or twice. The guilt is not worth it to me. I don't have a sassy mouth, and DH, DS, and I don't talk like that. Like I said, we have raised DS the exact same, and he has never talked back to us. I'm sure she picks things up from TV, and my plan is to cut that off completely starting today.

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You know, I hadn't read all the responses before I posted, and I wish I had. I would have stayed out of this entirely. Well, more precisely, I wish I had never read any of it. I agree with you: Reading this makes me want to cry.

 

Thank you for saying this. The thoughts that stand out in my mind after reading these threads are: spank her, hit her until it hurts, it has to hurt, make her eat soap, make her eat vinegar, that should burn......

 

OH MY WORD. I just want to throw up. Dogs get better treatment.

 

I don't think 5 year old children make these sorts of things up. She hears it from somewhere. Likely the parent. When I hear my young kids saying stuff like that I ignore it and I think more carefully about what I say in front of them. If they get no reaction it isn't interesting anymore.

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In other words, if she's doing it for attention, make sure she doesn't get it. I'd sit her down and explain that the way she is speaking to us is unacceptable. I'd make sure she understood that, from that moment on, those kinds of comments would result in immediate banishment to her room (or an uninteresting corner, if that works better) for a specified amount of time.

 

Then, I'd start praising her when she gets things right: Hey, that's the way to do it! I'm much more likely to enjoy spending time with you and do what you want when you speak to me that way.

 

And maybe also when she goes a certain period of time without blowing it. In other words, if she makes it for an hour without saying anything out of line, I'd comment on it: It's nice that you haven't said anything rude in a while. Keep it up!

 

My son, especially, has always responded very well to positive reinforcement. Punishment tends to make him just dig in his heels and become increasingly belligerant and unpleasant. Putting him on notice of what we expect and then praising for it (while isolating for infractions) seems to be the most effective approach for some kids.

 

This is one of the main things we try, but it seems to make it worse. I can't figure her out. For example, when I praise her for a good behavior, she will right away do something she's not supposed to. Usually something not outright obvious....like kicking a blanket on the floor.....just something negative.

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I really didn't want this to turn into a "is spanking good or bad" thread. I'm sure it works for some. It's just not for us. And it doesn't work of my DD.

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I really didn't want this to turn into a "is spanking good or bad" thread. .

 

 

Well, the horse is out of the barn on that one. All it takes is one poster for everyone else to form ranks to chastise the people who have used swatting, not beating, as an occassional tool. Now everyone is "sick" and "crying".

 

 

I hope that you found something of use in this thead and I wish you the best of luck in this situation.:001_smile:

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Hobbes seemed to thrive on negative attention at that age too. I started the (counterintuitive) practice of giving him positive attention. So, for some kind of rudeness, I would take him to me and give him a big cuddle, or hug him on my lap. I would tell him how much I loved him, then would gently remind him that he was part of the family, and we all needed to show respect to each other. Strange though it sounds, it really worked, and within days his behaviour began to improve.

 

The way I see it: time outs were pushing him away from me and out of the family. The further away he felt, the harder he tried (unconsciously) to get a reaction out of us by bad behaviour. The cuddles brought him back into the family, making him want to follow our rules.

 

Best wishes

 

Laura

Thanks so much for this suggestion! It seems to me that 5 is an age where many children start to really test their boundaries. DD is definitely thriving on the negative right now and I'm not enjoying the constant negativity. Time outs just aren't working and spanking is not an option in our home. I'm going to try this for the next week what a great way to look at it!

 

Thank you for saying this. The thoughts that stand out in my mind after reading these threads are: spank her, hit her until it hurts, it has to hurt, make her eat soap, make her eat vinegar, that should burn......

Yes those things stood out for me too and also made me rather ill.

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Not sick or crying here.

And I am a soap advocate. It only takes once in our house and the potty mouth is gone. What is better, one bitter taste or years of "recorrecting" the language filling your child with resentment toward you because you are constantly "on" them to clean up their language.

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What is better, one bitter taste or years of "recorrecting" the language filling your child with resentment toward you because you are constantly "on" them to clean up their language.

 

Well, it has never taken years here. In fact, I usually see turnaround in an incredibly brief time. As I said, for some kids, punishment actually entrenches the behavior, because they react so strongly to being treated that way. Certainly, that has been true for my kids.

 

And, in terms of resentment, the people I know who had parents who relied on physical punishments tend to have a lot more resentment than the one whose parents didn't.

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Punishments have not worked for smart mouths around here. One child sees it as a challenge she's more than happy to accept. Another child starts to seek out more and more negative attention.

 

What does work for me is a two-fold approach: Having them repeat what they said in a polite, rather than a rude, manner, and the next time they ask me to do something for them, saying "Well, when you talk rudely to me, it makes me not want to do extra things for you, so this time the answer is no."

 

For my particular kids, it has to hurt a little before they "get it," but I'm not talking physical pain. They have to feel the pinch of their actions, how it affects them. This is ESPECIALLY true of my oldest, who is 14. If it doesn't negatively affect her, she doesn't get it. In fact, she told me the other day, "You're a punishing mom." I said, "What do you mean?" She said, "When I do something wrong, you punish me." I said, "Well, you have spent years teaching me that talking to you about problems doesn't do anything. You only change your behavior when you feel the pinch. I don't like to feel like I'm constantly harping on you, so I've dropped the lectures and gone straight to the effective part." She grinned sheepishly and said, "Well, you're right." :001_smile:

 

Tara

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One child sees it as a challenge she's more than happy to accept. Another child starts to seek out more and more negative attention.

 

Bingo! Right down to explaining how their behavior "teaches" me. I've explained to my kids that they teach me every day what they need from me. If I ask nicely for them to do something and they ignore me until I yell, they are teaching me that they respond to having me yell at them. So, the next time I need something, I might go directly to the yelling. If they want me to speak to them politely, they need to respond when I do so.

 

When things start to slip, I will sometimes ask nicely first and then, if there is no response (or an inappropriate one), I'll get the kiddo's attention (making eye contact, etc.) and remind him that I will have to escalate if he does not respond properly. That usually works.

 

And, yes, my son is a very social kid, requiring lots and lots of attention and interaction. I'd never understood that thing about negative attention being better than none until I had him. But, yes, he will provoke negative interactions if that's all he can get. So, with him, punishment is more than likely to just set in motion a downward spiral. The only way out is to choose another path.

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Wow...I am so thrilled to hear other parents who spank and not a thread talking about how terrible it is. I am a firm believer in spanking - as long as it is not done in anger, and obviously, appropriately.

 

 

 

I look at it this way. Have you EVER heard an adult, whose parents spanked appropriately, not screaming, not abuse, but loving appropriate spanking, who consider what happened to them as a child wrong or abusive. I have NEVER seen or heard of it. My mom chased us around the house yelling at the top of her lungs with a huge wooden spoon. I certainly think that went past "good parenting" but I also know I sure as heck deserved it and I don't blame her one bit!

 

There are things I resent about my childhood - the spankings I deserved are not among them and I've never heard anyone else say different. I HAVE heard others say they probably should have been spanked more! :D

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My ds had the same problem when he was 5 yo. I realized he was trying to express himself, and didn't really know how to put the words together correctly. He still does occasionally. I sat him down and explained to him that he needs to say it in a different way/tone. I told him I will tell him when he does it, and what he needs to say differently.

 

Of course, a "punishment" of any kind should only be implemented AFTER you are sure the child understands that a behavior is wrong/ not allowed , knows what the expected behavior is and does the "naughty" thing anyway.

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Well, I think punishment without communication is pointless. I think everyone agrees with the notion that the child must understand why and to what purpose they are undergoing a punishment for it to be effective.

Our rule for potty mouth was that it wasn't for public use. You could go to into the bathroom and say all you wanted into the toilet. They did too!

Our rule for continued misuse of the gift of conversation was that you needed to understand that you had offended others, you apologized and perhaps your mouth needed to be cleansed. We didn't have to repeat this very often until dc number four asked for the upstairs soap as it tasted better!

We decided that he hadn't really grasped the problem!

I have even had kids use a bit of soap or toothpaste on themselves as they tried not to say those things anymore.

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I look at it this way. Have you EVER heard an adult, whose parents spanked appropriately, not screaming, not abuse, but loving appropriate spanking, who consider what happened to them as a child wrong or abusive. I have NEVER seen or heard of it.

Allow me to introduce myself. I am Sandra. I was spanked as a child "loving appropriate spanking" and I consider it was both wrong and abusive. I love my parents and understand that they did their best with the tools and knowledge they had. That they loved me very much but their method of controlling my behaviour was not appropriate. And I rebelled BIG time when I wasn't under their control as I had not been taught good self control. When you know better you do better and I know better. Spanking is not appropriate for my children. So now you have heard of someone... Me.

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No one advocates spanking without restoration afterwards. None of us that spank are jumping on you non spankers. We're not whining and moaning about spoiled brats who are never disciplined and have smart mouths. No..... but we beat our children and treat them worse than dogs!

 

Can it. If you don't want to spank your kids then don't, the rest of us don't give a rat's ass. The OP asked for advice and got it. She didn't ask for all you whiners to complain about the advice she got.

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