If you love TOG, but had to switch, what would you use?

[TMarie]

I love Tapestry of Grace.

 

My husband is questioning the price. We cannot use a library ~ our only library is a Dutch English language library with virtually no books from any curriculum. :glare: So, we must buy everything ~ and with TOG that really adds up.

 

What would be the next best choices to replace history, literature, church history (which I guess doesn't need to replaced yet), and geography? We would need 3rd, 6th, and 8th grade levels. We use IEW for writing & composition. I want to continue with TOG, but need to honestly show my husband the choices. What says the hive?

(for context, starting in fall 2010, we'd also need to add in rhetoric level fine arts, government, and philosophy which would be covered in TOG.)

Edited March 10, 2009 by TMarie

[hmschooling]

There's Heart of Dakota and My Father's World that follow a similar cycle as TOG. I know many moms in my homeschool group that are thinking of switching from TOG to HOD.

[mchel210]

I use Sl but I have found the cores sell very close to the original price. You could explain that to your husband. You would dish out the money up front, but it ends up coming back when you sell them.

 

Other then that...you could use BF books, Total Language Plus, A beka Language?

 

I guess you could use BF and cover church history along with that as it is religious? And something like TLP or LLATL will cover all your LA and you just add in IEW?

[Chris in VA]

Since it's working for you and offers all you want, I would focus on getting the books you want at a cheaper price.

Have you tried Paperback Swap? Depending on your budget, you could probably get at least half of your books for postage--about $5 each. So, figure 10 books a child, that's roughly $200. Is that reasonable for you? Some books could overlap, esp with the youngers and read alouds.

 

You could also try Book Samaritan, Homeschoolclassifieds.com or other used book outlets. Shipping will be your enemy--perhaps it's cheaper for you to go thru the Brits and have things mailed from there?

 

If I can pay about $2 a book (here in the States) I feel pretty satisfied. Of course, I only buy what I think will be "keepers," read over and over. We have a great library. I'm sorry you are not in the same situation.

 

Perhaps if you tell your husband that, because you have several kids, the outlay is really only for the oldest--everyone else will probably reuse books, right? Or something like that?

 

I agree with the PP, Sonlight is another option. The cores do sell very well, however I think TOG covers more.

[Vrouwtje]

TMarie, just wanted to let you know that I feel your pain. We just returned from Europe (Hungary) 1 1/2 years ago and it was so fantastic to have a good library again (although being from the Netherlands I still miss Dutch books...). Apart from there being no library available there is always the issue of not being able to have books shipped so easily.

 

It does seem that TOG books sell pretty quick though. If you have someone come to visit you, or if you come back to the States some time soon, I would try to order as much of the books as possible used (and have them sent to a family member) and then sell them again when you come back here some other time (maybe a family member or friend is willing to help with that?). It would be so sad if you love TOG to have to stop it. Have you tried www.betterworld.com? They ship overseas and I think it only costs $2.95.

 

Much strength as you decide!

[Pongo]

I loved TOG. I used 3 years of it and when they went to DE, I knew I would want all the options of the updates but the print copy also. Some have mentioned they only print out pages they needed, I wanted the whole thing in my hands AND the updates with the beautiful DE version.

 

I realized I did not use it to it's entirety. I liked doing the History and Geography but often found myself doing my own thing for Bible (year 1) , Church History, and Fine Arts. I knew I would miss, the books suggested, literature discussions and access to a higher or lower level at my fingertips.

 

So with that, I decided to find something with only History & Geography. Spend the summer reading some Dialectic/Rhetoric literature techniques, brush up on Blooms Taxonomy for Literature Analysis read; Stories We Tell Our Children by Thomas, Message and Meaning: An Introduction to Linguistics by Schwartz, and Teaching the Classics by Andrews.

 

I found that SL will give me the books, flexibility and schedule. The books they schedule are found used fairly easily in the used market, and I love the fiction choices. I can add hands on if I wish, beef up Geography a bit and have fun reading. I plan on using some time this summer , picking a few books (most likely every third for my oldest because analyzing EVERY book can really suck the joy right out of it:)) and I will write some comprehensive questions with a Socratic style "lite" to ease her into Rhetoric level and a "general" analysis for my younger two to join in on out historical discussions.

 

1. Know what you want and more importantly what you don't want.

2. If cost is a problem, forget about it, constantly looking at it will only make you want it more...lol

3. What do your children enjoy, and more importantly what do you enjoy teaching " if mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy"

4. Stick with whatever you choose for the year, sometimes it takes several months to get in the groove.

5. Don't worry so much you have 12 years times however many children to figure it out:D

 

Good Luck!!!

[Melissa in CA]

Well, if I were not using TOG I think I would probably use Winter Promise, possibly Veritas Press, or go back to Sonlight. I don't see how any of those choices will be much cheaper for you though. :confused: No matter what you choose it seems you need at least two levels, or three if you are not able to combine your older two.

 

Another option is going with a textbook approach to history. BJU puts out a decent history text that includes geography studies, etc. You could combine your older two in one graded text. Then shop from SL's catalog for some literature books to purchase (used) to round it out.

 

I know that the textbook approach is considered taboo these days in homeschool circles, but many still use them and graduate very knowledgeable history students. If I could not afford any of my above options, I would not hesitate to use BJU. History is not THE most important subject to be studied, and some of us spend way too much time on it when that time would be served better on a different subject...like writing, math or latin.

 

Having said that, another option is going the WTM route suggested in SWB's book. From what I have read it seems a very inexpensive, simple approach to history. ;)

[Angel]

Has anyone mentioned My Father's World? It's designed to include grades 2-8th. The book basket time scheduled in MFW would give the extra books for on level reading. It would come in less than TOG. Might be worth a look.

[FourOaks]

You may want to at least check out Answers in Genesis. They have a brand new history program out now and from the looks of it, it seems a pretty good choice. If I used that, then I would get The Ultimate Geography and Timeline book and use the ideas in it to create a great geography study.

[siloam]

Winter Promise would be my fall back. With the ages you have there are several programs you could use: Sky and Sea, Children Around the World, or one of the world history or American history levels.

 

Heather

[dymphna57]

We lived in Europe when we first started home schooling and then, for family reasons, returned for a time ( longer than we imagined!) to Europe again .

 

I spent most of my time in the states buying second hand books and we moved tons back with us. I knew that because of the dismal library resources here, we were going have to become a library. I am very glad we made the investment and we still spend a good portion of our income on books/ audiobooks that we could get for free if we lived in the States. It does make you appreciate what others take for granted.

 

I would argue that you will want your children to have access to good literature no matter what program you choose. We do use Project Gutenburg and the Baldwin project whenever we can. We have used college funds to purchase laptops for the older children to read ebooks on. We buy used books from , especially abebooks.com and other sources in the states and have them shipped to relatives where we pick them up when anyone of us is visiting.

 

As soon as you break through the cost factor, which is just that it is more than you expected, you realize that you are getting real value. Every little bargain you get counts!

Good Luck!

 

I don't use TOG because I use a combination of sources and because I want a more Roman Catholic focus.

[TMarie]

Wow-wee! You ladies gave me a lot to think about.

 

One factor that makes my head spin is knowing that my oldest will be beyond most of these curriculums by the end of next year. So, I not only need to compare all these programs, but look ahead only 12 months and make sure I have left myself some good high school options. We are now finishing off year 2 of TOG.

 

There's Heart of Dakota and My Father's World that follow a similar cycle as TOG. I know many moms in my homeschool group that are thinking of switching from TOG to HOD.

I’m seriously considering Heart of Dakota for my youngest, but my oldest would have to start back at the Ancients ~ it’s time for them to learn something about our good ole USA! Also rules our Winters Promise (still in development at this level.)

 

I use Sl but I have found the cores sell very close to the original price…….....you could use BF books

Beautiful Feet looks wonderful ~ it truly looks like a joy to use ~ but the only U.S. history close to the 8th grade level would be early American, which we are doing right now with TOG.

I’d love to go back to Sonlight, but not sure if my 2nd child could handle Core 100 which is where we would need to start. Would love to do it though~! I need to research that.

 

Have you tried Paperback Swap?

Wow, no. Can you really get children’s, curriculum-type books from there? Thanks for the suggestion! I will take a look.

 

Vrouwtje, I love the Netherlands! You must miss it so much. I miss the states and am ready to return, but will be heart-broken to leave Europe behind. I feel a bit like the Allen Say, from his book Grandfathers Journey, “The funny thing is, the moment I am in one country, I am homesick for the other.â€

 

, ……I decided to find something with only History & Geography. Spend the summer reading some Dialectic/Rhetoric literature techniques, brush up on Blooms Taxonomy for Literature Analysis read; Stories We Tell Our Children by Thomas, Message and Meaning: An Introduction to Linguistics by Schwartz, and Teaching the Classics by Andrews.

I found that SL will give me the books, flexibility and schedule. The books they schedule are found used fairly easily in the used market, and I love the fiction choices. I can add hands on if I wish, beef up Geography a bit and have fun reading. I plan on using some time this summer , picking a few books (most likely every third for my oldest because analyzing EVERY book can really suck the joy right out of it) and I will write some comprehensive questions with a Socratic style "lite" to ease her into Rhetoric level and a "general" analysis for my younger two to join in on out historical discussions.

 

Pongo, did you do this for the past year, or is this your plan for the coming year? It sounds like a great plan. Where you able to find a Sonlight Core that fit into where you are/where, or did you just pick the best level for your kids? Do you have some sort of resource to use for writing your questions? Did you look at Veritas guides?

 

….I don't see how any of those choices will be much cheaper for you though. No matter what you choose it seems you need at least two levels, or three if you are not able to combine your older two.

Another option is going with a textbook approach to history…. BJU puts out a decent history text that includes geography studies, etc. You could combine your older two in one graded text. Then shop from SL's catalog for some literature books to purchase (used) to round it out.....another option is going the WTM route suggested in SWB's book. From what I have read it seems a very inexpensive, simple approach to history.

 

Yes, I need to do some number-crunching, and take into account that the TOG will be used again and again. Next year I will need to buy year-plans, grammar, and dialectic books. The year after that I’ll need to buy year-plans, grammar, dialectic, and rhetoric. Then after that I’ll need to buy rhetoric books for 3 years. That will give me 5 years (in 2014 to 2018) for free. But, is that comparable to Sonlight, or other options for the next 9 years? Oh, my head is spinning again!

I'm printing these ideas and need to research some of the other suggestions!

 

If anyone has another suggestion or comment… I’m open to hear more!

Thanks so much for your help. :grouphug:

[Rhonda in TX]

The main reason I switched to TOG was because I wanted more hand-holding with history and literature discussions with my kids. It's my biggest weakness in our homeschool. However, if we cannot afford TOG (and that's always a possibility), I would find some things to help me learn to lead those discussions (like Teaching the Classics) and go back to Ambleside Online.

[Pongo]

Pongo, did you do this for the past year, or is this your plan for the coming year? It sounds like a great plan. Where you able to find a Sonlight Core that fit into where you are/where, or did you just pick the best level for your kids? Do you have some sort of resource to use for writing your questions? Did you look at Veritas guides?

 

I used TOG till December, then in January we decided to finish up the year using Oxford as my outline. Since I knew I would have my older two together in SL3 I would go up to Explorers and stop there. I decided on this level because it was a perfect fit for my middle guy and it was very easy to get advanced readers for my older dd, being American History. I will do SL 1 with my youngest, I think she will really enjoy some Mom time:)

 

I did set aside several books for my older dd to prepare for discussions. I found that TOG taught, and gave me a jumping off point for having those history discussions I can now apply that to SL. I went ahead and ordered SL and although I like the discussion questions, I really want something a little meatier for my older dd. Seeing I would be adding books for her, I found it to be an opportunity to write discussion questions for those books. I will add that sheet of discussion questions to the SL weekly plan. This way she will get used to answering in essay style, and be prepared for history discussions. SL does more of a narration style ( read a bit and talk about it) and that will work well for our read-aloud, but for History discussions on Wednesdays I wanted a little more depth.

 

I will be using several of the Veritas Press suggested books, but I have not seen their guides.

[Donna A.]

MFW has two years of American & World (modern) history combined which you could use with your older children. In addition to the books that are sold in the package, some of which are used in both years, there's a supplemental package that you can purchase for the younger one(s) instead of a completely separate program for them.

 

http://www.mfwbooks.com/2-8_home.htm

 

The Book Basket list in the back of the TMs does give many more options for read-alouds and videos for all ages. You could go through it and pick some titles that you'd like to purchase since the library isn't an option. The author asterisks those titles which she highly recommends for purchase in situations just like yours, as her family was overseas for 8 years and totally understand the problem.

[TMarie]

The main reason I switched to TOG was because I wanted more hand-holding with history and literature discussions with my kids. It's my biggest weakness in our homeschool...

 

Yes! I could do history ala WTM much cheaper. But, *I* need help with those philosophical discussions. The last few days have helped me to see again why I picked ToG in the first place.

 

After looking at all the wonderful, seriously fantastic choices mentioned here I sat down with my husband and showed him the numbers. It came down to this... with younger children there are cheaper, literature rich programs. Once I start adding in multi levels the prices begin to even out and end up in the same ballpark with ToG.

 

I am going to buy the next ToG year-plan soon and give myself time to find more used books. For my little guy I may not buy ToG grammar books, but use Heart of Dakota instead (which looks like it will not only come out cheaper, but also be a better fit for him.)

 

Thank you all for your help! Your suggestions helped me tremendously.:seeya:

Edited March 12, 2009 by TMarie

[ldee]

What about History Odyssey?

[Handmaiden]

The main reason I switched to TOG was because I wanted more hand-holding with history and literature discussions with my kids. It's my biggest weakness in our homeschool. However, if we cannot afford TOG (and that's always a possibility), I would find some things to help me learn to lead those discussions (like Teaching the Classics) and go back to Ambleside Online.

:iagree: Ambleside was my first thought also.

[FordFamily]

Hi TMarie...

Ford Family here!

 

We are going to try WP for a year and see what we think...

That is a little less $, due to the fact that you can combine...

 

I don't know how we can get into HOD...I really like it...but, it

seems like it just will not work for us, at least not my first batch..

 

I'll let you know, We are actually going to try COTW and then let

the little guys "catch up" to the Classical History Cycle...and start

over with older in TOG and younger in HOD...that is my plan!

 

:grouphug: Would much rather discuss this at Bagels and Beans, my Friend!!