Jann in TX? Others? Question regarding TT vs. BJU

[ereks mom]

I've been reading old posts comparing the rigors of high school math programs, and what I *think* I am getting is that doing Teaching Textbooks Algebra 1, Geometry, Algebra 2, AND PreCalculus is roughly equivalent to doing Algebra 1, Geometry, and Algebra 2 using BJU or some similarly rigorous program (Saxon, Lial, etc.). Is this correct? Trying to make a decision about next year...

[Jann in TX]

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[ereks mom]

Thanks, Jann. I got your PM and I'm sending you a PM back. :)

[ereks mom]

About our situation: we are just finishing up Chapter 6 of 14 in BJU Algebra 1, so I know we will not finish the book by the end of this school year. We've moved as slowly as necessary, and we don't leave a section until I'm sure EK has grasped the concept(s).

 

Even so, when EK finishes a chapter and gets to the the Chapter Review in the book, she often has trouble remembering how to do the problems she did back at the first of the chapter! :confused: When that happens, she gets overwhelmed and claims that she "hates" math.

 

She does not plan on a math-intensive major in college; she seems to be heading towards the field of photography or graphic art. I doubt she will EVER take Calculus. We've used BJU exclusively since K5, and this year (8th grade), we are doing BJU Algebra 1. We don't use Homesat; I teach each lesson.

 

I am comfortable with teaching Algebra 1, but less than confident with Geometry and higher math courses, so I've been planning to switch to Teaching Textbooks after Algebra 1. But with our situation, I don't know exactly WHEN it would be best to make the switch, so I would like to ask your opinion on these two options:

 

1) Make the switch NOW; discontinue BJU Algebra 1 and start TT Algebra 1 at the beginning, moving quickly through the familiar stuff and slower through the lessons that give her problems. My feeling is that it would be better to "get a running start" with TT by "backing up" and doing their Algebra 1 so we would be familiar with their methods and terminology. (There was a recent thread about how their terminology is "different" from that of most standard math programs).

 

2) Continue with BJU Algebra 1, finish it next year (should be finished before Christmas), and then go on to TT Geometry. (I want to do Geometry, then Algebra 2, then PreCalculus.) While I'm willing to repeat Algebra 1 if we need to, I don't want to step back that far if it's not necessary, given the comparative rigor of BJU and TT math courses. (I looked at the TT Algebra 2 placement test, and we've already covered pretty much all of what's on it, even though we've only done 6 out of 14 chapters in BJU Algebra 1.)

 

Which option would you choose? Other suggestions?

[4wildberrys]

Well, my advice would be to finish up your BJU and go right to TT Geometry. You have already figured out just how "slow" TT S&S is by comparing your BJU to TT. So when you finish Geometry, you could then go right to TT Alg 2, which would be a lot of review, but there is nothing wrong with that if you want to kind of take it slow. And then finish up with TT Precalc---which would really give a solid Alg2 finish to the TT. HTH!

[songbirdie]

I see that "Jann" pm'd you and you pm'd her. Since her id states that she is a certified math teacher, I'd really like the benefit of hearing exactly what her opinion was in a regular post that we all can read. It would really help the rest of us who AREN'T certified math teachers to hear what a professional thinks.:)

[4wildberrys]

I see that "Jann" pm'd you and you pm'd her. Since her id states that she is a certified math teacher, I'd really like the benefit of hearing exactly what her opinion was in a regular post that we all can read. It would really help the rest of us who AREN'T certified math teachers to hear what a professional thinks.:)

 

 

:iagree: I was hoping she would answer you in this post...........I hope you will share!

[songbirdie]

We're using TT math for the first time this year, 5th and 7th. I like it because the children can do it on their own and I'm just there for help as needed. But I've been concerned with a few things, such as finding the radius of a circle. They don't EVER simply give the formula. . .diameter divided by 2. Or for diameter. . .R2 (radius times 2). I'm concerned because when we get to algebra, are they going to leave out all the formulas there too? I can't imagine doing algebra without knowing the procedure or formula for doing the problems. Same thing with area of a square. . .they NEVER say the formula: l X w. I had to point those out on my own. I might not remember so much of algebra, so I don't know if I'll be able to point things out on my own at that point. That's why I was hoping the certified math teacher, "Jann in TX" would share her opinions of TT with the whole group here in the thread. :grouphug:

[ereks mom]

Jann says:

 

Doing TT from Algebra 1 through their Pre-Calc course will be comparative to most Algebra 2 courses (like the ones you mentioned) plus a taste of standard Pre-Calc material. It would be enough for a STRONG, NATURAL (very gifted) math student, but the other 95% would do better if they take a traditional Pre-Calc class to fill in a few gaps and to deepen their critical thinking skills before Calc...TT is on the 'easy' side. TT's Pre-Calc text is the first text that really requires the student to 'think'...but they just touch on the minimum necessary... I prefer a more 'rounded' course.

 

...If I had a student who I KNEW was going to need Calc I would use a more traditional program than TT.

 

If I KNEW that my student would stop at the Pre-Calc (college algebra) level then TT would probably do.

 

and also:

 

Something to consider. BJU Algebra 1 will cover MOST of what TT covers in Algebra 1 AND Algebra 2. Much of a 'normal' Algebra 2 course is found in TT's Pre-Calc. If you decide to switch from TT after Algebra 2 you may find that you will need to go BACK and re-take an Algebra 2 course...

[songbirdie]

Thank you so much!!!:)

[4wildberrys]

Jann says:

 

Doing TT from Algebra 1 through their Pre-Calc course will be comparative to most Algebra 2 courses (like the ones you mentioned) plus a taste of standard Pre-Calc material. It would be enough for a STRONG, NATURAL (very gifted) math student, but the other 95% would do better if they take a traditional Pre-Calc class to fill in a few gaps and to deepen their critical thinking skills before Calc...TT is on the 'easy' side. TT's Pre-Calc text is the first text that really requires the student to 'think'...but they just touch on the minimum necessary... I prefer a more 'rounded' course.

 

...If I had a student who I KNEW was going to need Calc I would use a more traditional program than TT.

 

If I KNEW that my student would stop at the Pre-Calc (college algebra) level then TT would probably do.

 

and also:

 

Something to consider. BJU Algebra 1 will cover MOST of what TT covers in Algebra 1 AND Algebra 2. Much of a 'normal' Algebra 2 course is found in TT's Pre-Calc. If you decide to switch from TT after Algebra 2 you may find that you will need to go BACK and re-take an Algebra 2 course...

 

Very interesting. I am certainly NO math expert---but after really delving into helping my dd when she was getting confused with TT Alg 1---their methods and lack of proper terminology got me concerned, even though she is definitely never getting to Calc! I still think she needs to learn proper math terminology and traditional methods, especially if this is how these problems are worded on tests like the SAT, ACT---which I assume they will be. I am switching both my kids out of TT for this reason. I am concerned that a program written "just for homeschoolers" could be so far behind other more traditional math programs. Sometimes I wonder if the Sabouri brothers have a bias against homeschoolers? :confused: Like homeschoolers need such a slower sequence to "really" get higher maths?? Okay, I know those are fighting words----but I just HAD to say it :glare:

[nevergiveup]

I may be in the minority but the argument that TT is too slow or not rigorous enough does not hold water for me. My oldest son started off in TT's Algebra 1. Yes, we found it to be somewhat repetitious of what he had done in public school 7th grade math. So what? He did 2 lessons a day and got through in half the time. He also did all the tests at the end of the course (instead of after each section) and did not score lower than 95% on any of them. I guess it shows that he learned it well enough.

 

A friend of ours, who has a child in a rigorous public school, did well in her accelerated math class and scored well on her tests, and yet had to relearn it in order to help her younger brother with his math because she didn't retain it well enough.

 

Why is there such a huge push to compete with public schools and try to duplicate what they are teaching?

 

Whatever program you choose--the child is going to learn more if THEY LIKE doing it. My son likes TT and that is fine by me.

[songbirdie]

Very interesting. I am certainly NO math expert---but after really delving into helping my dd when she was getting confused with TT Alg 1---their methods and lack of proper terminology got me concerned, even though she is definitely never getting to Calc! I still think she needs to learn proper math terminology and traditional methods, especially if this is how these problems are worded on tests like the SAT, ACT---which I assume they will be. I am switching both my kids out of TT for this reason. I am concerned that a program written "just for homeschoolers" could be so far behind other more traditional math programs. Sometimes I wonder if the Sabouri brothers have a bias against homeschoolers? :confused: Like homeschoolers need such a slower sequence to "really" get higher maths?? Okay, I know those are fighting words----but I just HAD to say it :glare:

 

What math curriculum are you going to use? :001_smile:

[4wildberrys]

What math curriculum are you going to use? :001_smile:

 

For dd--Ace School of Tomorrow with DVD math. She needs the mastery, slow approach. It also uses all the proper terminology and covers all of TT alg 1 and some of TT alg 2 topics. Supplementing with LOF.

 

For ds---Saxon w/Saxon teacher and Life of Fred.

 

So far, so good :)

[chaik76]

For dd--Ace School of Tomorrow with DVD math. She needs the mastery, slow approach. It also uses all the proper terminology and covers all of TT alg 1 and some of TT alg 2 topics. Supplementing with LOF.

 

For ds---Saxon w/Saxon teacher and Life of Fred.

 

So far, so good :)

Which course/courses are you using from ACE? I'm trying to figure out how far their math goes...

[songbirdie]

Which course/courses are you using from ACE? I'm trying to figure out how far their math goes...

 

I did ACE/School of Tomorrow all throughout high school. They have algebra1, 2, geometry, trigonometry, not sure if they have calculus because none of my friends took it and I didn't either. But you could go on their website to see. As I said in a previous post, I took ACE's Algebra, and that's as far as I went in high school math. Following that, I went on to college and grad. school and never needed anything for my major beyond that. I even did VERY well on the Graduate Record Exam, which is like an SAT but for students graduating with a Master's Degree. . .you have to take it before you can graduate. So my experience with ACE math was very good, and my friends did well also. . .going on to take SAT's and then in college. I'd say it gives a firm grounding. And if there are too many problems for some students to have to keep going through, just let them stop when they know it and move on to the next skill.

[songbirdie]

For dd--Ace School of Tomorrow with DVD math. She needs the mastery, slow approach. It also uses all the proper terminology and covers all of TT alg 1 and some of TT alg 2 topics. Supplementing with LOF.

 

For ds---Saxon w/Saxon teacher and Life of Fred.

 

So far, so good :)

 

Thank you!!!

[4wildberrys]

I did ACE/School of Tomorrow all throughout high school. They have algebra1, 2, geometry, trigonometry, not sure if they have calculus because none of my friends took it and I didn't either. But you could go on their website to see. As I said in a previous post, I took ACE's Algebra, and that's as far as I went in high school math. Following that, I went on to college and grad. school and never needed anything for my major beyond that. I even did VERY well on the Graduate Record Exam, which is like an SAT but for students graduating with a Master's Degree. . .you have to take it before you can graduate. So my experience with ACE math was very good, and my friends did well also. . .going on to take SAT's and then in college. I'd say it gives a firm grounding. And if there are too many problems for some students to have to keep going through, just let them stop when they know it and move on to the next skill.

 

Great to hear! I am impressed with everything we have used from Ace so far. It really gets a bad rap----but it is a rigorous and challenging curriculum from all the subjects we have used so far. Right now, dd is using the Algebra 1 with the DVD and next year she will use Geometry, with Alg 2 senior year. The Ace math goes through Trig, but I don't think she will get that far :tongue_smilie:Even though I am not having him continue, last year ds ONLY did the new 6th grade Ace math after bombing by lesson 20 with Saxon 8/7---and when he took the Iowa tests, he scored in the 11th grade level for math. I know it doesn't mean he was doing 11th grade math---but I was impressed with how well he did after ONLY using Ace math. ;)