coopers5 Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 I am wondering if there is anyone who has had a child to attend there or knows someone who has. The idea of continuing her classical learning in their unique environment looks very appealing to my daughter. I did wonder how much deviation there is from any kind of Christian worldview in their teaching and what kind of financial aid people have been able to obtain there. Any advice or "review" would be greatly appreciated at this point. I am "all ears." Thanks! Jo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary in WA Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 Our sons went to the Naval Academy right down the street from St. Johns. They said the midshipmen laughed at the students at St. Johns because they spent all their time reading the Great Books and did not learn anything of value in seeking a career after college. My son, always the joker so I am not sure if this is gossip or true, said that they did not receive grades: they just passed their classes. Of course, the contrast was tremendous. One time my son got an 89.8% and his teacher at the Academy would not bump him up to a 90% for an A. Which was fine with us. Besides the possible exaggeration from my son, you might want to check things out to see if they do give real grades, and if they offer anything of value in career building. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plaid Dad Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 From reports of friends who attended St. John's, I would not consider it friendly to traditional Christianity - quite the opposite, in fact. There are, however, a growing number of Christian colleges based on the Great Books idea. Most of them are Catholic and can be found on this list. Maybe someone else can point you toward similar schools with a Protestant affiliation. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veronica in VA Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 I have a friend who went there. I haven't stayed in touch with her in recent years, but I know she was somewhat anti-Christian, though I don't know if that was from attending St. John's or she was that way before she went. They don't give grades, at least not in the Freshman year. They do evaluations. Each professor sits down with the student and tells they how they are doing, talks about their strengths, and how they can improve. I think that is actually more helpful than grades. I have heard that there is a lot of drinking on campus. Hope that helps, Veronica Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G5052 Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 My aunt did her graduate work at the Santa Fe one and remains involved with them as some kind of advisor, and I know several people who have sent their children there over the years. When I was in college myself in New Mexico I had several friends through Intervarsity who were students there. Personally, I wouldn't send any of my children there. If I had a child who wanted a great books school for college, I'd pick a Christian college. In fact if either of them wants a more liberal-arts oriented major, we'll be looking at only Christian colleges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coopers5 Posted February 22, 2008 Author Share Posted February 22, 2008 Thank you all for all of this feedback. Tremendously helpful. Please, anyone else who has info, post, as well. God bless you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coopers5 Posted February 22, 2008 Author Share Posted February 22, 2008 Hi, What is the ISI guide? I mean what does the ISI stand for ? Thanks for your help. Jo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plaid Dad Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 Intercollegiate Studies Institute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DollyM Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 The whole title of the guidebook is Choosing the Right College - The Whole Truth about America's Top Schools by ISI Also, on their website, there are links to other publications they put out. A very good resource. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tina in Ouray Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 Jo, I can't tell you anything about St. John's in Annapolis, but if your daughter is interested in a classical Christian undergraduate program like this, I suggest that she check out Gutenberg College in Eugene, OR. I have a son who is a senior at Gutenberg this year. I can't recommend this school highly enough! It's unique, it's Christian in its outlook, and the price is right. I'd be more than happy to correspond with you or your daughter privately if you would like to know more. Tina in Ouray, CO http://gutenberg.edu/about_gutenberg/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam "SFSOM" in TN Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 Our sons went to the Naval Academy right down the street from St. Johns. They said the midshipmen laughed at the students at St. Johns because they spent all their time reading the Great Books and did not learn anything of value in seeking a career after college. My son, always the joker so I am not sure if this is gossip or true, said that they did not receive grades: they just passed their classes. Of course, the contrast was tremendous. One time my son got an 89.8% and his teacher at the Academy would not bump him up to a 90% for an A. Which was fine with us. Besides the possible exaggeration from my son, you might want to check things out to see if they do give real grades, and if they offer anything of value in career building. And yet, amazingly, many (umm, most?) St. Johns grads have careers. (Now how did that happen? :cool: ) Just as many homeschool grads whose parents do GB study and traditional track mathematics somehow manage to get into university and/or be successful in life. I think the grading difference might also be more subtle. They are not expected to "just" pass their classes. They are expected to dig deep and strive for mastery. Understanding might be quantifiable, but I'll put the level of understanding via SJ semester-long discussion against my pitiful scantron multiple-guess A's any day. I never gave grades when we homeschooled and I guess that contrast was tremendous as we discussed and wrote and discovered and discussed some more with genuine interest all around, but somehow my kids were A students when they went back into traditional schooling. (And so far for either of them, no scantrons or multiple-guess type evaluations have been offered them. Essays, direct recall, and critical-thinking exams all, and they've risen to the occasion despite their earlier "no grading" mommy policy.) The grades are there if the student chooses to transfer, but they are not there as the sign that true learning did or did not take place. For specific career path involving technical study, I think most SJ grads expect the masters degree or apprenticeship to teach them what they need to know. As to value? I know a whole lot of people who would not consider my homeschool (and indeed, my children's intensively literature-based private high schooling) to be of "value." I mean, why do you need all that Latin and history and GB study? You should just study what you need to know to have a career, right? A plumber or engineer or doctor doesn't need all that extraneous learning. I guess it all boils down to what one values as true education. I personally would be mighty proud if one of my kids chose St. Johns, and would have even in my days as a committed conservative evangelical Christian. Unfortunately, we and they probably will never be able to afford such a school. Not a whole lot of financial aid available there. As to drinking from another post, my son is in a fraternity where there's a boatload of drinking that goes on. And yet he and a handful of friends make the choice not to, though opportunity is certainly at his very fingertips. No matter what sort of college one goes to, one makes those choices as an adult. Heck, the now president of Bob Jones University once was removed from the school (or perhaps the Academy?) for drinking. The most protective environment in the world won't make your son or daughter say no, and the most inviting environment in the world won't make him or her say yes. Edit: In the interest of full disclosure and not that it matters to anybody: My son was a A/B/and on one occasion C student. He was capable of being an A student, but lacked... focus. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coopers5 Posted February 24, 2008 Author Share Posted February 24, 2008 Thanks so very much for the info on this book. I have ordered it after reading the excerpts available on the ISI website. It does look like just the thing we need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coopers5 Posted February 24, 2008 Author Share Posted February 24, 2008 To Tina: Thank you - I will look into this. Our difficulty with your suggestion of somewhere in Oregon, however, is we are in SC. I have two children already who are in colleges somewhat far away from home. One in Ohio, and the other in Mississippi. We aren't afraid to have our kids far from us, but the transportation issues do get tiresome. We were really going to try to avoid so many of those difficulties, if we possibly could, with this, our last child. Thanks again for taking the time to post. God bless. This forum is wonderful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tina in Ouray Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 Jo, Believe me, I understand! We have three kids in college this year. We're in Colorado, one son is in Oregon, and two daughters are in Texas. Transportation (and very different school schedules) does get tiresome. Knowing what I now know about Gutenberg, though, I would send my child half way around the world to attend. (In fact, amidst the very, very small student body, there are at least two students from half-way around the world!) The thing is that there really aren't "equivalent" schools to choose from that are also closer. Gutenberg is just so unique. So even though "proximity" was one of the things that we tried to consider in making college choices, in the end it was a factor that we opted to overlook. Some things are just more important than other things. Besides, once you have to fly a student to school, it isn't that much more trouble to fly them a little further. I don't know how this story worked out, but when I visited Gutenberg two years ago in the fall there was a high school student visiting who lived within 30 minutes of St. John's (Annapolis). Both she and her parents were hands-down sold on Gutenberg over St. John's. By the way, I really like that ISI book on colleges, too. Very helpful. Tina in Ouray, CO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam "SFSOM" in TN Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 Things might have changed, but I went to SJC with no out-of-pocket expense (grants from the college, no-interest loan from the college, federal grants, federally subsidized student loans, and an on-campus work-study position which covered books and living expenses). That is good to know. Thanks for this. The fact that you went to the school only moves it up another notch in my estimation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caroline Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 Thank your honest response. I had a high school friend who attended SJC in Annapolis in the early 1990's. It is nice to "meet" someone else who went to school there. I have always thought it was an interesting place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coopers5 Posted February 25, 2008 Author Share Posted February 25, 2008 Tina, Thanks for your continued response. So great to "meet" you and hear of some of our similar experiences. I am not closed to the idea of looking further into the school and did visit the website briefly and liked what I saw - including the theological underpinnings I was able to pick up on. How would I communicate with you privately, by the way, should we choose to pursue this? Do we get each other's email by clicking on the names of the posts on here? I'm a little unfamiliar w/the new board. Thanks again, Jo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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