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Tipping, tips, "living wage" and related issues..........


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This is a spin off from another current WTM thread. I've read several threads here and other places over the years about tips and tipping.

 

I worked as wait staff from age 13 until age 22, after putting myself through college. More recently, I work outside the home in a place where most of the staff makes their living on tips. Several of my poker players are hair stylists.

 

When you look at the people in the typical tip situations:

 

hair stylists

manicure/pedicure technicians

wait staff for buffets restaurants

valet attendants

full service wait staff

airline/shuttle help

 

You can disagree with how tips/wages/compensation is handled in this country. That's fine. But it *is* how it's handled in this country. The above people (and others) rely on tips to make a living; a modest living. Please don't punish them because you don't like the system.

 

I think "they chose that profession" is particularly short sighted and unkind. Yes, people who don't tip are a cost of doing business. But I'm asking you to not be one of them.

 

I think a standard tip of 20% should be expected, budgeted for and offered. (except in the case where $1 per person/bag, etc is the known number). If you don't want to pay, please don't buy/use the service. I understand wishing the system was different; but it's not. The people in the system have the same electric bills, grocery bills, insurance, car payments, etc as you do.

Edited by Joanne
A bit of clarification.
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I totally agree and usually tip 20-25%, but in all sincerity, what do I do about rude waitstaff? Or a stylist who completely screws up my hair cause she was talking too much to her co-worker?

 

I had this one experience... Restaurant was not busy, it took her 15 mins. to get to us, 30 mins for food, food was cold, never came back once except to leave check. Do I still have to tip 20%?

 

I always have no idea what to do. At this point in life, I rarely go out to eat anymore cause I can't handle such behavior.

 

Ruthie

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A tip is expected FOR A JOB WELL DONE. I have lived on tips too and find it pathetic when people "choose not to participate" if I've served them well. That being said, if you get poor service, you give a poor tip. What I do in that situation is tip just enough to cover the taxes the person would pay, about 5%.

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I totally agree and usually tip 20-25%, but in all sincerity, what do I do about rude waitstaff? Or a stylist who completely screws up my hair cause she was talking too much to her co-worker?

 

I had this one experience... Restaurant was not busy, it took her 15 mins. to get to us, 30 mins for food, food was cold, never came back once except to leave check. Do I still have to tip 20%?

 

I always have no idea what to do. At this point in life, I rarely go out to eat anymore cause I can't handle such behavior.

 

I can't imagine being held hostage at home over this. It's rare that I get non tippable service anywhere; if it's headed that way (no pun intended for hair stylists!), I would immediately talk to the staff and/or management.

 

If not resolved, I would not tip or I would do so at a reduced rate, communicating clearly and politely the reasons.

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LOL, I'm not held hostage at home:tongue_smilie:!

We just get better service at home(so says dh and kids:glare:).

 

I believe in giving the worker their due. I guess you are mainly addressing people who don't tip because they're cheap.

 

I am also not white and when I am at a restaurant and I see my waitress treat a white family better than my family...well, I've got say, I leave like a $1...but then it makes me mad cause then it would only perpetuate the person's racism YKWIM? (please no one argue this point with me).

 

Anyway, just to let you know, sometimes, a person doesn't tip well cause something was wrong but they don't know how to speak up for themselves.

 

Blessings,

Ruthie

 

p.s. since a family member delivered pizzas for a time to make ends meet, I always generously tip my pizza guy. I enjoy watching their faces light up :)

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Joanne,

 

Wait staff make around $3.00 an hour. I personally know of no other job that makes a comparable wage. There are a lot of people who only make 7, 8, 9 dollars an hour. I am not going to go around tipping everyone who makes less than $10 an hour. Hair stylists are not in the same category as wait staff.

 

Oh, and for what it's worth, we don't use the following services -- not in our budget:

 

manicure/pedicure technicians

valet attendants

airline/shuttle help

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I am also not white and when I am at a restaurant and I see my waitress treat a white family better than my family...well, I've got say, I leave like a $1...but then it makes me mad cause then it would only perpetuate the person's racism YKWIM? (please no one argue this point with me).

 

I understand this and agree completely. I am young (and look younger), and I often feel that when I go to a restaurant with young children, the staff assume that we will not give a good tip, and treat us accordingly. It's frustrating to no end, because we are really good tippers! But not for awful service. I refuse to tip well for awful service. So, as you said, it just feeds on itself.

 

I do like to recognize a job well done. I've been known to ask to speak to a manager because we had horrible service, but also because we had really good service. I want people who do a good job to be recognized for their hard work.

 

For me, tipping waitstaff (in small restaurants that we frequent often) and hairdressers, etc. is important because I'm developing a relationship with them. I want them to know that I value them and the service they provide, so they will continue to provide that service.

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Are you responding to something in particular that was recently said here, Joanne? Just asking because this thread seems outta the blue, but you sound like you're on the defensive. Maybe I missed a recent conversation that prompted your post.:)

 

I've worked as a restaurant server, too, and was very appreciative of the tips I earned. I was never "stiffed", but there were a couple of times when I was extremely busy and made errors or didn't provide the attention I should have to customers. That was reflected in my tip, as it should have been. I agree with you that people who don't agree with the system of tipping shouldn't punish the worker, regardless of the quality of service he or she provides. On the other hand, I would never assume ~ either as the service provider or recipient ~ a 20% tip from the get-go. I pay what I'm charged and provide an appropriate tip based on the service, establishment, etc.

 

By the way, I know this has been mentioned in previous conversations, but wait staff in Washington state receive minimum wage. At $8.55/hour, I believe ours is the highest in the nation. The other jobs you noted would all receive minimum wage, regardless of the state in which they live, would they not? Which isn't to say minimum wage is on par with "living wage", but as nestof3 said, are you proposing we assume a 20% gratuity be granted to all service providers who earn the minimum hourly wage?

Edited by Colleen
typo
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Not all states treat tipped employees the same. I grew up on the West Coast where tipped employees make minimum wage (for starters) and tips are extra. I think the rules way back when I was waiting tables were that we had to claim 10% of total food sales as income on our taxes. I made pretty good money as a 20-something working in an upscale place.

 

Well, fast-forward to the Midwest where I was SHOCKED to discover that tipped employees do not make minimum wage. They make sometimes less than $3 per hour...their wage plus tips are "supposed" to equal minimum wage. I have absolutely no idea how anyone is expected to live on Indiana's measly minimum wage, and to make less than that as a base wage is deplorable. I always, always give large tips to waitstaff. If service is poor, I give 15%, otherwise more. Around the holidays it is my family's favorite passtime to eat at "mom & pop" establishments and leave a couple of $20 bills for the waitress. I know how hard and thankless the job is, and doing it for less than minimum wage is...well, I've already used deplorable, and have no other word that fits.

 

ETA: We do not eat out very often, probably because I budget the larger tip into the cost of a meal.

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Not all states treat tipped employees the same.

 

Yes, I'm aware of that. Your post is right under mine (reading the thread in hybrid mode), so I'm not sure if you're replying specifically to me. I believe in the vast majority of states waitstaff aren't paid minimum wage, which is why I noted the exception (here in WA) to Joanne.:)

 

Well, fast-forward to the Midwest where I was SHOCKED to discover that tipped employees do not make minimum wage. They make sometimes less than $3 per hour...their wage plus tips are "supposed" to equal minimum wage. I have absolutely no idea how anyone is expected to live on Indiana's measly minimum wage, and to make less than that as a base wage is deplorable.

 

I don't disagree. I encourage you and Joanne and others who disagree with the system to try and change it. If your state has an initiative system, for example, maybe you can try and get an initiative on the ballot that would require waitstaff to receive minimum wage (before tips).

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I generally DO assume a minimum of 20% assuming there is no grievious issue. I regularly tip considerably more.

 

However, I'm not going to reward poor behavior, service, etc. I don't have an issue giving less (I wouldn't not give noting as I assume that I have gotten some service).

 

Here, most servers make $2.13 per hour.

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Please don't hate me, but I rarely leave a 20% tip. On average I leave 15% though. I don't feel anyone should expect to recieve a tip for just showing up either. I have had extremely rude servers in the past (we live in Miami and this seems to be the norm rather than the minority) The last time I was out the waiter was so inattentive I ask for the manager. The manager offered to comp an appetizer which we declined and left. Waiting 20 mins for a drink gets you $0 in my book. On the other hand we have had excellent service from some and tip accordingly. Not all waiters are making minimum wage either. The ones working at upscale restaurants make more than most of us. 20% of a $200 meal is $40. Given that a meal generally takes around 1 hour and they are serving more than one table that really adds up. I have never not tipped out of being cheap but I refuse to reward bad service.

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If I have a coupon for several dollars off a haircut I use it...and still tip based on the regular haircut price. I figure I want to stay on the good side of the folks who use sharp scissors around my head.....;)

 

Having read Waiter Rant (book and website) I try to tip the fill 20% when I am in a tipping situation.

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Yes, I'm aware of that. Your post is right under mine (reading the thread in hybrid mode), so I'm not sure if you're replying specifically to me. I believe in the vast majority of states waitstaff aren't paid minimum wage, which is why I noted the exception (here in WA) to Joanne.:)

 

 

 

I don't disagree. I encourage you and Joanne and others who disagree with the system to try and change it. If your state has an initiative system, for example, maybe you can try and get an initiative on the ballot that would require waitstaff to receive minimum wage (before tips).

I wasn't really replying specifically to you...your post just made me nostalgic for the great state of Washington (where I will be returning for few months this summer). I remember as a teenager making minimum wage, and it seems to me that back then in WA the min wage was about what it is now in Indiana.

 

I guess I should have made myself more clear in my reiteration of your post. While living on the West Coast someone told me that as a waitress, she made only $2 per hour, and, frankly, I did not believe her. I was under the impression that the vast majority of states did pay tipped employees minimum wage. I suppose it was in that spirit I posted directly under yours.

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I agree with tipping waitstaff 20% and I always do. My hairdresser is the person I have an issue with tipping, though. I spend a lot of money to have my hair highlighted and cut and can only afford to do it about 3 times a year when I would like to do it every couple of months. It is the one big thing I splurge on for myself. For example, I have not bought any new clothes in the last 2 years. In a year I do buy new clothes, it will be maybe 2 or 3 things.

 

So, to get to my point. In order to tip the guy that does my hair 20%, I have to fork over $35. I do it because I feel "I have to". But, my hairdresser is now making more cutting hair than I was as a CPA. The base price to have my hair done is exhorbitant enough, the tip just adds insult to injury. We're talking about 1 1/2 hours of work here and during that time, he cuts someone else's hair while I'm under the dryer.

 

The guy that cuts my hair is the owner, and I have heard that you don't have to tip the owner, but I'm not sure that's true. Even if he wasn't the owner, though, between my tip and the other person's hair that is cut's tip, I am thinking the hairdresser is making at least $25/hour.

 

Lisa

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So, to get to my point. In order to tip the guy that does my hair 20%, I have to fork over $35.

 

Wow -- I pay $28 just to get my hair cut -- not including tip.

 

I always thought 15% was standard restaurant tip, but it seems most people consider it 20%. I only tip 20-25% when the service was great.

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But, my hairdresser is now making more cutting hair than I was as a CPA.

 

My hairdresser once told me that she makes more than most of her clients, including wives of plastic surgeons and heart surgeons. That is well beyond living wage. She's extraordinary and the exception, but it's an amazing amount of money--at LEAST $400,000/yr.

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Wow -- I pay $28 just to get my hair cut -- not including tip.

 

 

It's the highlighting that is so expensive. What my hairdresser is charging is in line with what I have been charged elsewhere. I've even tried smaller, real basic places and been charged close to that much, though I wasn't as happy with the work.

 

Now, 15 years ago, it was about $75 - $90 at your standard salon, so I don't know how prices have risen so much.

 

Lisa

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I've read several threads here and other places over the years about tips and tipping.

 

I think a standard tip of 20% should be expected, budgeted for and offered. (except in the case where $1 per person/bag, etc is the known number). If you don't want to pay, please don't buy/use the service.

 

I tip according to service. When service is phenomenal they are compensated well. I have paid as much as 50% (rare), but average 25% for food service industry. I have stiffed wait staff before due to incompetency, or rude and dismissive wait service. It's also rare, but you get what you earn. I teach my kids to work for their money. When you don't follow through on a commitment, you don't get paid for it. Service industry is not the government. You are paid for value added, not time in job.

 

I waited tables for years. It's a tough job. I've been stiffed, deservingly. I've also been paid ridiculous amounts of money for my work. It was not consistent. I learned to not count on a certain amount of money because it was so varied. I made more as a waitress than a full-time private school teacher. I understand why tipping is important. However, to come on a board to demand that others tip 20% or not use service is pretty rude IMO.

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I base my tips off of 15%, and go up or down from there, depending on service. I don't know where the "new" 20% standard came from, but it certainly didn't come from consumers.:glare:

That said, I do routinely tip at Starbucks (often $1 on a $2.50 purchase), Subway and the like, anywhere there's a tip jar, and if my tab at a restaurant is small, I tip well above 15%. When gas prices were so ridiculous a few months ago, I considered generous tips my way of helping these guys make ends meet.

As for whether wait staff make minimum wage or not, I wouldn't feel too sorry for waiters making less than minimum wage. Even at $3 an hour, there's still plenty of money to be made waiting tables at even a mid-priced chain restaurant like Chili's. I don't know why more people who need extra income don't pick up a few shifts waiting tables--it's certainly not too unusual to take home $200 a shift on a busy night. For what is basically unskilled labor, that's good money. I loved waiting tables for a spell in my early 20s and felt amply compensated (most nights) for doing so.

Terri

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I am very frugal so I do all the hair cuts at our house, I have never had a manicure/pedicure, never used valet parking or airline/shuttle help.

 

Over the past several months we have given up on eating out. For one the food just wasn't that good and service was so-so. Now that finances are really tight we have given up eating out entirely.

 

When we did eat out we would tip 10% at buffet places and 20% a full service restaurants.

 

I could never figure out if you were meant to tip at places like "Sweet Tomatoes" where you get your own food, plates and even your own drinks. Someone would walk round taking you dirty plates - do you tip for that? It wasn't even the same person each time, just some random bus boy.

 

Honestly, I'm happier not eating out. My food it better, healthier and cheaper.

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I could never figure out if you were meant to tip at places like "Sweet Tomatoes" where you get your own food, plates and even your own drinks. Someone would walk round taking you dirty plates - do you tip for that? It wasn't even the same person each time, just some random bus boy.

 

quote]

 

My Son in Law worked his way up the chain at Sweet Tomatoes in Florida for years. He started out working the dining room as a server, clearing tables, getting drinks, , and eventually he became a manager. I was shocked to find out that yes, they do expect you to tip them! His theory is they clean the tables, they help you with your tray, refill your drinks, put tables together if you are a larger group, etc..

I protested that no one got our drinks for us or carried our trays. He said well we will if you ask!

 

So yes, now we tip at Buffets, but not as much as if they were full service. We tipped higher when we visited his Sweet Tomatoes, but then, we ate free too!

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However, to come on a board to demand that others tip 20% or not use service is pretty rude IMO.

 

Wow. That was a pretty harsh perspective on my post.

 

Clearly that's how you feel; that's fine. My thread was not out of the blue, btw. It was in response to sentiments expressed in a recent related thread.

 

I have no power to *demand* others tip anything. I was simply expressing on a discussion board that I don't think tipped service personnel should be given less because a consumer disagrees with the tip system.

 

Sorry to have offended you.

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I have absolutely no idea how anyone is expected to live on Indiana's measly minimum wage.

 

No one is supposed to live on minimum wage. I wish they would go back to separate minimum wages for adults and 14-17 year olds. I used to hire younger teens as assistants, but now I ask them to volunteer. I don't pay adults minimum wage, but I think the minimum wage is too high for a 16 year-old who has never worked before and needs a lot of training.

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volunteer. I don't pay adults minimum wage, but I think the minimum wage is too high for a 16 year-old who has never worked before and needs a lot of training.

While I agree with this in theory, you could not acquire teen workers without a reasonable minimum wage. Babysitters here make more than minimum wage. What would be he incentive to work if you can make more sitting and getting an allowance?

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asking everyone here to tip....are you serious?

 

I have never heard ONE of those that worked in the tipping industry COMPLAIN about how much they make..... If they didn't make enough money....I am sure they would find something else to do.

 

And what is wrong with feeling 'they chose that profession'......they did! If they don't want to work for tips.....find another profession.

 

And let's not forget....most of those tip makers don't claim them....so it is tax free! That adds up to a good bit....ya know!

 

I tip for what the tip was intended.....I have never thought I should tip someone a 'standard' amount.....Nor have I thought....well this person doesn't make minimum wage so let me make sure I narrow that gap.

 

.

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LOL....I think your post is a bit much....really...

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

asking everyone here to tip....are you serious?

 

I have never heard ONE of those that worked in the tipping industry COMPLAIN about how much they make..... If they didn't make enough money....I am sure they would find something else to do.

 

And what is wrong with feeling 'they chose that profession'......they did! If they don't want to work for tips.....find another profession.

 

And let's not forget....most of those tip makers don't claim them....so it is tax free! That adds up to a good bit....ya know!

 

I tip for what the tip was intended.....I have never thought I should tip someone a 'standard' amount.....Nor have I thought....well this person doesn't make minimum wage so let me make sure I narrow that gap.

 

My post was a spin off of sentiments expressed in a thread about hair stylists in particular and tipping in general. It wasn't an arbitrary command to tip and the ideas in the post were directly from the other thread; they were not my own origination.

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asking everyone here to tip....are you serious?

 

I have never heard ONE of those that worked in the tipping industry COMPLAIN about how much they make..... If they didn't make enough money....I am sure they would find something else to do.

 

 

.

I'm sure you didn't mean this harshly. The fact is, some of these service workers lack the education and/or skills to advance to another profession, yet still need to survive and/or support a family. For those of us who have been able to achieve a higher level of education and/or have reached the cognitave level necessary for abstract thought, changing jobs may seem easy. Not all, however, are as capable or resourceful as we see ourselves as being. It may not be as simple as "I'm not getting paid enough, I'll go find another job."

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Oh...I wasn't aware you were speaking for other people. Still....I think your request for tipping and not to use services unless you tip according to 'your' standards....is still.....a bit much. I think people have lost the meaning of 'tipping'......and by no means would I say it was a 'given'. I also don't know where 20% came in the picture.

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I tip according to service.

 

As do I.

 

I tip well, but not because I feel a responsibility to pay someone's salary. That is the responsibility of the employer for his/her employee.

When I go out I am simply purchasing a product or a service at its stated price.

The tip is thanks for a job well done.

I will not encourage poor service with a standard 20% tip.

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When did the "norm" go to 20%?

 

I'm not sure, and I have noticed the change as well. I grew up (and worked in) the tipped service industry when it was 15% "standard" but have seen that 20% is the new(ish?) expected.

 

When I waited tables, claiming 8% of my total billed tables was expected.

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I tip well, but not because I feel a responsibility to pay someone's salary. That is the responsibility of the employer for his/her employee.

When I go out I am simply purchasing a product or a service at its stated price.

The tip is thanks for a job well done.

I will not encourage poor service with a standard 20% tip.

 

I tip according to service, also. I do start with a 20% expectation but I will take away from that according to the service.

 

Your post does illustrate the point. People in tipped jobs, at least as it is structured in our culture, are *not* compensated by their employers at a "full salary" level. The way it is structured, the tip is not "extra" but needed to complete the compensation.

 

You can not like that reality; you can wish it were different. My post was to inform those who don't know and to encourage others to not skip the tip because they disagree with the system.

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I only have a second to share my thoughts...

 

I currently work at a moderately priced chain restaurant as a waitress. We make $2.13/hr. We tip out 3% of our sales not our tips. So, if you come in and sit at my table and don't leave a tip, it actually cost me money for you to sit at my table. I believe that I give excellent service most nights- my tips run anywhere from 10%-30%. I find a lot of times it depends on the people, more than the service. I've had people tell my manager that I was the best server they've ever had, then proceed to leave less than 10%. I've also had tables where I've felt I've been less than attentive, and recieved 25% tips.

 

As far as upping the wages for servers, I know that our restaurant would not be able to support that type of labor cost. There is no way we would still be open if they were paying their servers 6.55/hr (min. wage in KS).

 

I work in this industry because it allows me to be home with my kids during the day. I could work retail (and have), but I've found that working a mostly-cash job has helped our budgeting skills.

 

We dont' go out to eat unless we can afford to leave a good tip. I love eating a lesser priced restaurants, and surprising our server with an extraordinary tip (assuming the service was good). :D

 

Some people are ignorant, some people are mean, some people are cheap. Thankfully, there are a lot of good people out there as well. I enjoying connecting with my customers, sometimes it pays off financially, sometimes it doesn't, but I almost never regret making that connection.

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I tip for what the tip was intended.....I have never thought I should tip someone a 'standard' amount.....Nor have I thought....well this person doesn't make minimum wage so let me make sure I narrow that gap.

 

.

 

Same here. Good service gets a tip of 15% (what's with this 20% that's being demanded!!!). Excellent service gets slightly more. Poor service gets 5%. I don't ever leave NO tip. Leaving no tip may imply that I forgot to tip. Leaving a small tip for bad service gets the message across that I place little value on their shoddy service.

 

I used to hustle my a** waiting tables and tending bar, so I know what it's like to work on less than minimum plus tips. Maybe that makes me more critical of crappy service, but when I see a real slacker on the floor, I'm certainly NOT going to reward him or her with 20% (which still makes me laugh -- what a ridiculous presumption!!)

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Joanne.....I am curious....how many waitstaff (since the conv has turned to them)....do you really think DON'T receive minimum wage?

 

Edit: I mean AFTER tips are included!

__________________

 

This isn't about "minimum wage". It's about the reality that the compensation structure for some jobs is such that tips are *needed*, not "extra". Employers pay a base, and tips are supposed to fill in for the work/service provided.

 

The minimum wage component was mentioned simply because some people still do not know wait staff in particular are not often compensated at that hourly level by the employers. This lack of knowledge by some patrons hurts the wages of the wait staff because people think "they get paid per hour" and "why do I have to pay them more? It's not "more".

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Oh...I wasn't aware you were speaking for other people. Still....I think your request for tipping and not to use services unless you tip according to 'your' standards....is still.....a bit much. I think people have lost the meaning of 'tipping'......and by no means would I say it was a 'given'. I also don't know where 20% came in the picture.

Tammy, I'm not sure if this was specifically directed to me. I reviewed my posts, and do not think I implied that everyone should tip as I tip. I mearly stated what I do.

 

As far as "speaking for other people" I did use "For those of us who have been able to achieve a higher level of education and/or ..." I'm just assuming (perhaps incorrectly?) that the majority of folks who frequent this board have achieved a certain intellectual level. Perhaps my use of the plural was in error.

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I know exactly what it is about....and if it has been going on for this long....obviously it is working. If these people weren't making the REQUIRED minimum wage....there would be an outcry. But I am sure the fact remains.....they DO end up making well over minimum wage....if you ask me. I know I did when I was a waitress....and you didn't find me complaining about it either, nor crying for people to help pay my 'salary'.

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Grrrrr...tipping is an irritating issue for me.

 

It probably goes back 32 years yesterday, when we were having a fancy dinner in one of the nicest places in a good sized college town. Dh proposed during that dinner and, of course, that was the best part. The worst part? Once our prime rib was delivered to our table, our waiter disappeared completely. We had to ask the busboy for service. We even had to ask another server for our check. When we didn't leave a tip, the waiter had the gall to reappear in front of us as we walked toward the door and ask why we didn't leave a tip. Dh told him in no uncertain terms.

 

Today, we'd be out the door or speaking to the manager. Either way, our plans would have been ****spoiled.****

 

 

I like the idea of tipping for exceptional service. I have even gone to the manager to speak of an exceptional waitress or waiter. And, yes, I've gone to the manager in the case of someone really horrible.

 

What irritates me is that if we as a country got back to the habit of tipping for great service, I think service would improve. As it stands now, we get so-so to poor service.

 

My thought is that if this system were truly 'broken' then wait staff would simply find jobs elsewhere. Restaurants would have to up the wage to keep good staff. Or wait staff would rise up to contact their congress men and women and laws would be passed to remedy the situation.

 

Since those things aren't happening, I figure the system works just like people want it to work....restaurant owners don't have as much overhead and wait staff get wads of cash they don't have to report on their taxes.

 

A few years ago, the standard tip was 10%...now it's supposed to be 25%!!!!!!! No way.

 

By the way, there are lots of service business out there not on the OP's list.

 

How about tipping your airline pilot 20% of your ticket price if he or she gets you to your destination safely????? I'd be a rich, rich woman if dh got paid a tip every time he made a safe landing. How much more important is that than whether your food arrives in a timely fashion?

 

Okay, rant over. I wish we were grown up enough in this country to have a European tipping system, instead of being 'played' for charity every time we go to a restaurant.

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My post was to inform those who don't know and to encourage others to not skip the tip because they disagree with the system.

 

I appreciate that you're sharing information, Joanne. I recall you did the same in the not-too-distant past wherein you asked us, via a poll, if we know that waitstaff don't receive minimum wage. (Although, as I've said, that isn't always the true.) And while there's nothing wrong with informing us again, your post did come across to me as a demand. You're telling us that we should expect to include a 20% gratuity ~ or forego the service. I disagree, and I do believe tipping is very much a matter of personal choice.

 

As I said in another post, I suggest coming at it from another angle and trying to actually change the way the system is structured, rather than trying to change how everyone else responds to the system.:)

Edited by Colleen
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People in tipped jobs, at least as it is structured in our culture, are *not* compensated by their employers at a "full salary" level.

 

 

Because of threads like this, I now understand that this is often the case in our country. My point of view is influenced by the fact that it is not true of tipped workers in the state of WA.

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Grrrrr...tipping is an irritating issue for me.

 

It probably goes back 32 years yesterday, when we were having a fancy dinner in one of the nicest places in a good sized college town. Dh proposed during that dinner and, of course, that was the best part. The worst part? Once our prime rib was delivered to our table, our waiter disappeared completely. We had to ask the busboy for service. We even had to ask another server for our check. When we didn't leave a tip, the waiter had the gall to reappear in front of us as we walked toward the door and ask why we didn't leave a tip. Dh told him in no uncertain terms.

 

Today, we'd be out the door or speaking to the manager. Either way, our plans would have been ****spoiled.****

 

 

I like the idea of tipping for exceptional service. I have even gone to the manager to speak of an exceptional waitress or waiter. And, yes, I've gone to the manager in the case of someone really horrible.

 

What irritates me is that if we as a country got back to the habit of tipping for great service, I think service would improve. As it stands now, we get so-so to poor service.

 

My thought is that if this system were truly 'broken' then wait staff would simply find jobs elsewhere. Restaurants would have to up the wage to keep good staff. Or wait staff would rise up to contact their congress men and women and laws would be passed to remedy the situation.

 

Since those things aren't happening, I figure the system works just like people want it to work....restaurant owners don't have as much overhead and wait staff get wads of cash they don't have to report on their taxes.

 

A few years ago, the standard tip was 10%...now it's supposed to be 25%!!!!!!! No way.

 

By the way, there are lots of service business out there not on the OP's list.

 

How about tipping your airline pilot 20% of your ticket price if he or she gets you to your destination safely????? I'd be a rich, rich woman if dh got paid a tip every time he made a safe landing. How much more important is that than whether your food arrives in a timely fashion?

 

Okay, rant over. I wish we were grown up enough in this country to have a European tipping system, instead of being 'played' for charity every time we go to a restaurant.

You make some good points. I have to say, I have spoken directly to some waitstaff to let them know what they could have done to increase their tip. Sometimes I think it is just poor training, or upbringing, or it may be as you say, they expect a tip for the bare minimum (or shoddy) service. I think, too, if we (my family) ate out more often and at a wider variety of places, we'd probably experience a wider variety of service and then I'd be able to rant about the poorer end of the spectrum.

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This lack of knowledge by some patrons hurts the wages of the wait staff because people think "they get paid per hour" and "why do I have to pay them more? It's not "more".

 

But it is "more".

Required tipping means a patron cannot buy a meal, or a haircut, or some other service for the advertised price. They are expected to pay 15 or 20% over the listed price.

 

I understand that the tip is a crucial element to a waiter being able to pay the electric bill each month, but I also see the point of the customer wanting to pay the stated retail price.

 

I absolutely agree with Colleen that this is an issue worth the effort it takes to change.

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If you look on the menu bar at the top of this post (thread tools, search this thread, etc.) next to those is 'display mode'....click on that and see how the different modes look! In linear mode....you can't really see who is replying to whom (did I say that correctly, LOL).

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I base my tips off of 15%, and go up or down from there, depending on service. I don't know where the "new" 20% standard

 

I have no idea when 20% became the new standard. When I was growing up, 15% was considered a decent tip. I tip 15% for average service, 20% for good service, a little more for excellent service, and I leave a stingy tip and a note for lousy service. If the service is lousy, it is unlikely that I can get their attention to actually talk to them about it.

 

We never went out much when I was growing up so I never learned all these places where you are supposed to tip. My sister did waitress alot so she did clue me in on some things. It wasn't until I went on a cruise that I found out about the hand out around every corner for a tip. I felt like I spent more energy worrying about whether or not I had enough singles and whether or not I was tipping appropriately than I did on enjoying my trip.

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