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Guest janainaz
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Guest janainaz

I have been in a small group through a local church for a few months now. My husband and I are still getting to know the people, but don't have close relationships at this point. The wife of the couple that hosts the group handed me a book on Sunday that was called "Don't Make Me Count to Three" - a book about using Godly discipline with your kids. I walked in the church and it was as if she was standing there waiting and anticipating my arrival to give this book to me.

 

I came home and sent her a nice note mentioning that her offer of a book like that could be taken as a judgement when given so randomly. I had not asked for help with my parenting or complained about struggles in this area. (we could all use wisdom and help, but my boys are good boys - not perfect boys, but there has never been a behavior issue I'm aware of that would warrent an intervention). Without a solid relationship foundation and without an explanation of why she was offering the book, I took it as being rather obnoxious. My note to her was very sweet and my point to her was that there is a discernment that goes along with offering a book such as the one she gave. It would be like having someone hanging out with you and your husband and having a good time and then having someone randomly offer a marriage book - with no explanation.

 

Her note back to me was written with an offended tone "if you don't want it, don't read it".

 

So, I'm just curious as to how other women would interpret the situation -honestly.

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My guess is, someone else gave the book to HER, and she thought it was really good and wanted to pass it along to someone. Maybe she just always likes to share books she enjoys with others. Maybe it's a book that's been recommended/passed around at church. She doesn't know you too well, and thought you probably hadn't read it yet. So she thought, "I'll give it to her!" Now, considering the nature of the book, it would have been nice if she'd said something when offering it to you, like, "A bunch of us moms have been passing around this cool book about parenting. It's got some really good tips in it, and it's an enjoyable read. Are you interested?"

 

If you know your boys are well-behaved and there's no reason to think she meant it any other way (she's obviously not thinking, "Wow, Jana's kids are out of control. I better give her this book on parenting, since she obviously hasn't a clue"), assume the circumstances are more like I described above.

 

Wendi

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I guess I would have thought it a bit odd. Perhaps it is a book all the other parents in the group have read? Did you or dh at some time inadventently (or in a joking manner) mention something about one of your dc 'not listening', etc... & maybe she took that idea and ran (too far) with it?

 

I guess that even w/ finding it odd, I would have wondered if there were some other reason for her giving it (other than passing judgement on me as a parent).

 

I think for her to randomly hand it to you w/out any real explanation shows her lack of social skills.

 

So, I probably would have been offended for a minute, then blown it off as some odd quirk of hers, seeing as how her social skills are lacking. Maybe you should give her a manners book next week? ;)

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I would probably say something like, gee thanks, but I have too many parenting books already that haven't been read. That way I won't feel guilty if I take it, don't read it, and she later asks how I liked it.

 

Janet

 

I would have just either, commented that I know she must have tons of people requesting books from her, and it must have been for someone else,

 

OR, if you think there are problems that you may not know about, then just ask her if there are problems that you don't know about.

 

It actually could be either. She could have thought that you were the one who asked for it. OR, there could be a problem that she knows about but didn't have the guts to tell you.

 

Obviously people don't offer books without a reason, and as a pastor's wife, she has the responsibility to let you know if there's talk about your children. (OR apologize if she made a mistake)

 

Carrie

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I might wonder if there had been some snippit of conversation that led her to give me a book. Maybe you complemented her on her children or made a frustrated remark about one of yours.

 

And while I might well be annoyed at being on the receiving end and not connecting with why I was getting the book, I can also very much imagine myself waiting to see someone so that I didn't miss giving them a book that I thought they would enjoy. I am a huge book person and especially love passing along books that had an impact on me.

 

I would be very distressed if I'd gifted a book and then gotten a note that indicated that I had misread the situation. I would probably then go around being very appalled that I'd offered it My embarassment might well be seen as being aloof and judgemental when I meant the original offer of the book to be friendly and helpful.

 

I think that this is the sort of situation best worked out in person, with a smile and a heaping quantity of grace on both sides.

 

(We just moved and that has meant months of dislocation and having to find our new place in church, neighborhood, work, homeschool group, everything. It is hard to find that comfortable zone with all new people. I have occasionally looked at someone and thought, "I might like you in six months, but right now you're really rubbing me the wrong way." I do try to keep those voices in my head.)

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Well, I would have assumed that she'd read it, thought it was good, and thought I would enjoy it. I would (and have, when people pass me *any* book they think I'd like) read it and tell her "Thank you."

 

I can't know people's motivations unless they tell me. I know from living 16 years with my dh that whenever I presume to know someone's reasoning I have usually guessed incorrectly. ;) To counteract my natural snarkiness, I try to force myself to believe the other person has the best of intentions. It keeps me sane. (Hey! That driver just sped cut me off! They must be trying to race their passenger to the nearest hospital....) [rolling my eyes at myself]

 

(Gently..) However, if I were her, I would have been hurt and offended by your note, no matter how "sweetly" you worded it.

 

Perhaps you may want to apologize (in person) for your note and for not speaking about it to her directly.

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it would bother me a lot. I am an introvert *and* sensitive to unsolicted parenting advice. So much so that I never recommend moms give "counter" books, sites or articles unless they are asked - even if the family has a style or oaradigm I disagree with.

 

Parenting is by nature intimate and passionate. Assuming a role of "advice giver" or evaluator in my life is inappropriate unless our relationship has developed into that.

 

I agree with your reaction and response. Sorry her response was awkward but *she* made the first awkaward move.

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In my opinion, I think you overreacted. If you'd sent me that "nice note" I'd have been offended too (though I wouldn't have sent you a note in return!) It seems as if we're always looking for a way to play victims of offense or slights. My wish is that everyone could just develop a thicker skin - in and out of the church setting!

 

Please know that I'm not saying this in an ugly way - you asked for our opinions - always dangerous!!!:lol:

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Well, I would have assumed that she'd read it, thought it was good, and thought I would enjoy it. I would (and have, when people pass me *any* book they think I'd like) read it and tell her "Thank you."

 

I can't know people's motivations unless they tell me. I know from living 16 years with my dh that whenever I presume to know someone's reasoning I have usually guessed incorrectly. ;) To counteract my natural snarkiness, I try to force myself to believe the other person has the best of intentions. It keeps me sane. (Hey! That driver just sped cut me off! They must be trying to race their passenger to the nearest hospital....) [rolling my eyes at myself]

 

(Gently..) However, if I were her, I would have been hurt and offended by your note, no matter how "sweetly" you worded it.

 

Perhaps you may want to apologize (in person) for your note and for not speaking about it to her directly.

 

:iagree:

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My skin has gotten much thicker in the last few years, so I probably would have smiled, thanked her, and handed the book to someone who I knew loved reading parenting books. Hopefully she just handed you the book because, 'everyone knows that women with several boys have a hard time' (not that I agree but it seems to be a theme I have run across). If she had asked how I liked it I could have just said that I have not gotten around to reading it yet between homeschooling, church activities, and so on.

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I think there would have been the inner me, the one who worries that I am doing well before others, that would have been mortified at having been given that book. My first reaction - how odd, wierd, rude! I would have agonized over WHY she gave me the book. Ugh - how very uncomfortable.

 

Then....I would have talked myself into believing all the other possible scenerios that people have mentioned here already and after a few days, relaxed about it. But it would not have been easy. I would NOT feel comfortable around this woman for a while.

 

I do think, in the end, the best aproach would have been to ask her in person if there was a reason you were not aware of that she felt compelled to give you that book. Seeing the look on her face and hearing her voice when she explained it might have given me assurance that she did it out of the blue to be nice, or even that she had some motive I was not happy with.

 

I totally understand your reaction thought. I would NOT have liked being given that book with no explaination. Your marriage book analogy was spot on. Wierd!

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Well since you have been in a small group with her for a few months now, is it possible she thinks you're closer than you are?

I would have just assumed she read it, loved it and wanted to share it with another parent.

If that was her motive, and then she got that email from you-well then it sounds like your response was as presumptuous (sp?) as you think her passing the book on to you was.

Anyway, when I'm tempted to get offended, I've found it's better to look up bible verses about keeping the peace, humbling myself, etc.

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Guest janainaz
Hmmm.....that would have threw me off. I guess it would have depended on her attitude when she gave it to me and what she said.

 

On a side note, I have that book and think it is an excellent book.

 

Well, she did not say anything other than, "Jana! I have a book for you!" We have other ladies in our group with kids. She did not offer the book to them, so it felt as if she singled me out. It was just random, so it wasn't like some other mom my age passing a book on, it was different. But, I can be sensitive when it comes to stuff like that and so that is why I was wanting to know what other mothers thought. :001_smile:

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Guest janainaz
I wouldn't have been offended at all at being given the book. I would have figured that she thought it was a good book and wanted to pass it on to someone in that stage of their life.

 

I would have been offended at the "thank you" note. And I would never pass on anything else.

 

Wow, it sounds like you could have a personality similiar to hers. It is good to hear this side of it. I guess we, as women, are all different and we receive "gestures" differently. Thanks for your input.

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In my opinion, I think you overreacted. If you'd sent me that "nice note" I'd have been offended too (though I wouldn't have sent you a note in return!) It seems as if we're always looking for a way to play victims of offense or slights. My wish is that everyone could just develop a thicker skin - in and out of the church setting!

 

Please know that I'm not saying this in an ugly way - you asked for our opinions - always dangerous!!!:lol:

 

:iagree:

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Well, I would have assumed that she'd read it, thought it was good, and thought I would enjoy it. I would (and have, when people pass me *any* book they think I'd like) read it and tell her "Thank you."

 

I can't know people's motivations unless they tell me. I know from living 16 years with my dh that whenever I presume to know someone's reasoning I have usually guessed incorrectly. ;) To counteract my natural snarkiness, I try to force myself to believe the other person has the best of intentions. It keeps me sane. (Hey! That driver just sped cut me off! They must be trying to race their passenger to the nearest hospital....) [rolling my eyes at myself]

 

(Gently..) However, if I were her, I would have been hurt and offended by your note, no matter how "sweetly" you worded it.

 

Perhaps you may want to apologize (in person) for your note and for not speaking about it to her directly.

 

I completely agree with everything here, but wanted to add just a little bit more...

There are two options here:

1.) She gave you the book and doesn't think there's anything wrong with your parenting, just thought you might enjoy the book or find it useful. How nice of her!

OR...

2.) She gave you the book because she thinks perhaps you could use a bit of guidance regarding parenting skills and was trying to be tactful in not telling you that straight out. Again, how nice of her to care enough to do that!

 

You can certainly take the book's advice, or leave it, but really your response to her offering could seem possibly maybe to have a teeny-tiny edge of defensiveness. Had it been me, when she presented me with the book I would have said, "Oh, how nice of you to think of me!" and then I would have (*with a smile*) said affectionately, "are you trying to tell me something?" And then....I would have listened for her answer. If she's not a malicious person, perhaps it would be worth asking her honestly if she sees a problem, or something she thinks you might be able to do better on, and then being open to her answer, as a fellow sister in Christ.

 

All of this advice goes out the window if you truly believe she's just a malicious you-know-what who's known for making trouble where there isn't any. :001_smile:

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Wow, it sounds like you could have a personality similiar to hers. It is good to hear this side of it. I guess we, as women, are all different and we receive "gestures" differently. Thanks for your input.

 

OK, this is me trying very hard not to guess at other people's motivations here. :)

 

Did you just (gently and sweetly) wave off the comments from people in this thread who disagreed with you?

 

Did you dismiss Jean's comments (and those of several posters who agreed/ somewhat agreed with her) by implying that because she understands why the other woman was reasonably hurt she must have the same personality? That Jean's opinion didn't matter because she is somehow too sympathetic with the woman who gave you the book?

 

Many people indicated they understood your discomfort and recognized the awkwardness you must have felt, but said they would've handled it differently. I'm going to assume (I know, my bad) that not all of us can have the same personality as the other woman.

 

Even if we did, it doesn't mean that your reaction and the note you sent didn't hurt her feelings or worsen the situation. This would be a good time to step back, pray about the situation, and truly evaluate your response to her. Whether your note was completely justified or not, it has caused hurt to another. As a believer, it is your responsibility to approach her (the Bible says to GO to your brother offended, not send a note) and fix the relationship between you two.

 

Again, maybe I'm reading your comment to Jean incorrectly. However, you asked for other peoples' read on your situation. In doing so, a poster should be prepared to hear the voices of those who disagree.

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OK, this is me trying very hard not to guess at other people's motivations here. :)

 

Did you just (gently and sweetly) wave off the comments from people in this thread who disagreed with you?

 

Did you dismiss Jean's comments (and those of several posters who agreed/ somewhat agreed with her) by implying that because she understands why the other woman was reasonably hurt she must have the same personality? That Jean's opinion didn't matter because she is somehow too sympathetic with the woman who gave you the book?

 

Many people indicated they understood your discomfort and recognized the awkwardness you must have felt, but said they would've handled it differently. I'm going to assume (I know, my bad) that not all of us can have the same personality as the other woman.

 

Even if we did, it doesn't mean that your reaction and the note you sent didn't hurt her feelings or worsen the situation. This would be a good time to step back, pray about the situation, and truly evaluate your response to her. Whether your note was completely justified or not, it has caused hurt to another. As a believer, it is your responsibility to approach her (the Bible says to GO to your brother offended, not send a note) and fix the relationship between you two.

 

Again, maybe I'm reading your comment to Jean incorrectly. However, you asked for other peoples' read on your situation. In doing so, a poster should be prepared to hear the voices of those who disagree.

 

Wow, Hillary! Would you consider a position as ambassador to some of the more combative countries? I think that's about as tactfully as *anyone* could have said something like that, and the world needs a bit more honesty spoken by kindly people. Makes me wish we still had positive rep points to spread around....

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Guest janainaz

Thanks for all those responses, I really appreciate them all.

 

I don't always trust my perception, I have areas that I'm weak and probably over sensitive.

 

There is a bigger picture to the snippet of the story - we've been in this group for several months, our kids go to Awana, my husband attends the mens study from time-to-time, but we are not "members" of the church. My husband does not get much out of church on Sunday. He went to school to be a pastor years ago, he knows the Bible inside and out, and feels that small groups and activities that involve relationship serve a greater purpose. He believes in giving to people (real people - i.e. - helping them pay their mortgage when in need rather than helping the church pay theirs type of thing) and so we are there for the people in this group and not the institution. Most of these people are so involved in the church, they have little time for outside relationships because they are too busy working 40 hours a week and serving in all their spare time. We feel the disapproval when we make very clear that our family time is first, our marriage is first and we make time to connect with the people in our lives. We don't over extend ourselves. I homeschool and do ALL the rest at home and I don't have a lot left to give. I can see they don't like this about us.

 

So, week after week in this group, there are people who are drawn to us and there are people we repel. I believe this particular lady we rub the wrong way. Her husband seems to really like my husband and like us, but I think much of what we bring to the group is a threat to her.

 

In spite of this clash, I'm trying to be open and let her in and trying to understand her, as well. She, her daughter and her grandaughter are not the warmest gals on the planet and they all make me really uncomfortable and at times feel insecure (my issue, not theirs). They are quiet and you never know what they are thinking. I'm quiet, too (at first), but I still exude warmth to people. Anyway, this is the type of family that corrects their children around every corner with scripture and although I do use scripture with my parenting, I'm careful in the way I use it with my kids.

 

Getting to the point, I'm trying to understand this lady and I'm trying to grow in this area, as well. My initial response was a smile and a phoney, "oh, thanks! I love to read books like this! But, I was lieing, I was not happy about it. I do love books, but not given to me in that way. I was brewing and tossing and turning in my bed and my only relief was to be me and be honest. She is a book-giver, my first week she handed me a book. But, speaking just for me, I would offer words to someone if I were to hand off a parenting manual! I would be certain to make light of it and tell the person why I thought of them, or what I liked about the book. I would say something because I would think about how I might receive it myself.

 

On another note, she is my son's Awana teacher. On many occassions I have had his teachers grab his shoulders and tell me what a nice boy I have. I know my son and he is a great kid - not so much from something great I'm doing, but just in his own personality and character. We are very close. Of course, it's not to say he does not have his moments! But, I've never had anyone say a negative word about my kids, on the contrary. My kids are my life and I care very much about how they behave and what is coming out from their hearts. The situation threw me off.

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Guest janainaz
Wow, Hillary! Would you consider a position as ambassador to some of the more combative countries? I think that's about as tactfully as *anyone* could have said something like that, and the world needs a bit more honesty spoken by kindly people. Makes me wish we still had positive rep points to spread around....

 

Oh, maybe it came across wrong. My "wow" was me stepping back and realizing that maybe she did mean it differently than I took it. I used a wrong choice of words in saying Jean was like her. What I meant to communicate was that Jean's response, was the response I received from this lady - she was offended. I was really hearing what Jean said and thought that came through in my response. I asked opinions becuase I do want to hear how others interpret the situation. Like I said, I'm weak and that is why I asked to begin with.

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Most of these people are so involved in the church, they have little time for outside relationships because they are too busy working 40 hours a week and serving in all their spare time. We feel the disapproval when we make very clear that our family time is first, our marriage is first and we make time to connect with the people in our lives. We don't over extend ourselves. I homeschool and do ALL the rest at home and I don't have a lot left to give. I can see they don't like this about us.

 

So, week after week in this group, there are people who are drawn to us and there are people we repel. I believe this particular lady we rub the wrong way. Her husband seems to really like my husband and like us, but I think much of what we bring to the group is a threat to her.

 

I hope you don't mind if I interject just one thing that might help you understand these folks a bit better. People might perceive your family as one that takes, but does not give. Especially if they are serving the church with a lot of their time while doing full-time jobs as well. Even the woman herself, did you mention that she's leading Awanas? She may well be wishing that she could guard her time as you are, while at the same time recognizing that if everyone guards their time that way, who will do the work of the church in terms of things like Awanas? It's likely that people who serve others a lot will have a hard time understanding what to them might appear to be self-absorbtion or selfishness. (I'm totally not saying it *is* either of those things, just saying they might have that impression)

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Without a solid relationship foundation and without an explanation of why she was offering the book, I took it as being rather obnoxious.

 

 

 

So, I'm just curious as to how other women would interpret the situation -honestly.

 

I would find it obnoxious, too, if someone was waiting for me with a discipline book just out of the blue like that. I'm not supposed to feel even slightly offended by a book like this? We're not just talking about any old novel from Oprah's book club, but more like a self-help book/instruction manual. To me, this is about as subtle as giving someone a pair of Odor-Eaters or Listerine.

:sneaky2:

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Guest janainaz
I hope you don't mind if I interject just one thing that might help you understand these folks a bit better. People might perceive your family as one that takes, but does not give. Especially if they are serving the church with a lot of their time while doing full-time jobs as well. Even the woman herself, did you mention that she's leading Awanas? She may well be wishing that she could guard her time as you are, while at the same time recognizing that if everyone guards their time that way, who will do the work of the church in terms of things like Awanas? It's likely that people who serve others a lot will have a hard time understanding what to them might appear to be self-absorbtion or selfishness. (I'm totally not saying it *is* either of those things, just saying they might have that impression)

 

I fully hear you, Julie. I absolutely am in touch with this and have taken that into consideration. But, here's the deal. My way of being involved in "church" is not behind the walls. My way of being involved in "church" is being it - in my life. Every day is an opportunity and my husband and I make ourselves available to create real relationships and through those relationships we give - our money, our time, our hearts. We have friends that have lost jobs, have sought any kind of assistance from the church adn the church has nothing to give. The church asks for tithes and asks that you give your firstfruits so they can pay their mortgage - but they don't give theirs. We love the people, but don't agree with the institution. Some of these people serve and complain and their hearts are not in it. So, we come and we are free and some people see the health in that and some who serve out of ill motives are bothered by it.

 

My son was invited to go to Awana by his friends. My husband decided that he wanted to connect with other people and get to know them, but he likes the Bible studies in a home setting, to him it is more in line with the book of Acts.... He was very open and stated he does not like staring at the back of someone elses head on Sunday. Our hearts are still open to getting to know the people in this home group.

 

We are at a point where we will continue in this group OR our unwillingness to busy our lives to the extent that they do will close their hearts to us. It is a sad thing, but I'm trying to discern if we will ever really be accepted there, or not. It makes me sad and it makes me frustrated that programs, systems and all that goes along with it gets in the way of what it is really all about to begin with. We are Christians, but if we don't conform to being behind the walls, we just don't fit and our kids can't fit. I'm frustrated by that.

Edited by janainaz
8 million typos
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So, I'm just curious as to how other women would interpret the situation -honestly.

 

 

I would assume that she just read a book she found especially meaningful or helpful to her and is eager to share her enthusiasm. I can remember excitedly telling others about "Mothering" magazine when I discovered it many many years ago.

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I would have felt just like you if someone had given me a book like this, and I'm impressed by your boldness in giving her the note that pointed out her faux pas. (I, on the other hand, would have festered about this for weeks and felt very paranoind every time my kids were in her presence.) I think the Mama Bear in you came out because you felt this woman was insulting your childrens' behavior, and all other background behavior didn't help you to think that maybe she had good intentions.

 

We move a lot, so I can totally understand how it feels to be the "new kid" and have to figure out the pecking order of a new group.

 

I also agree with you and your dh's feelings about church-going. I know many people who leave their kids with sitters several nights a week to do things at the church. They are good things to do (bible studies, prayers groups, etc...) but not if you have to continually leave your family to do them. I think some people go overboard and like others to see what a good Lutheran/Baptist/Catholic they are by how much they do for the church. It's better to actually feed the poor than to go to church 4 times a week to listen to someone tell you to feed the poor.

 

So....what is your plan at this point? Are you going to keep going to the group? Is it worth it, or will it be awkward? In my opinion, if you really like the group but it feels awkward I would bite the bullet and just talk to her about how you felt about receiving a book like that.

 

Good luck!

-Mrs. F

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I have been in exactly that situation, actually 3 times at the same church with 3 different parenting books. This is when our Austin was a toddler, long before we knew he was on the autism spectrum. You know, when people just thought I was a rotten mom (including myself).

 

I never told anyone to their faces, but I was deeply offended. I was doing everything I could, had already read just about every parenting book out there, this child just did not get discipline. I felt judged, and betrayed by people who were supposed to love us. On top of that, I was a brand new Christian (accepted Christ when Austin was 18 months old).

 

Anyway, I'm not saying that my reaction was right, but without a context of love and caring, or a deep relationship with the person offering the book, it's offensive.

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I had a similar thing happen- but I know it was intended. The person who had raised 6 kids, thought they could offer something, although I hadn't asked. Infact, they only see me at church- so they too drew some type of conclusion regarding my parenting. I didn't do anything but accepted the book. But man I was ticked off. I know exactly how you feel. I am glad you said something. I am a kind, nice person, but sometimes people are way out of line. I wish I would have said something. It just caught me so off guard.

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Guest janainaz
I would have felt just like you if someone had given me a book like this, and I'm impressed by your boldness in giving her the note that pointed out her faux pas. (I, on the other hand, would have festered about this for weeks and felt very paranoind every time my kids were in her presence.) I think the Mama Bear in you came out because you felt this woman was insulting your childrens' behavior, and all other background behavior didn't help you to think that maybe she had good intentions.

 

We move a lot, so I can totally understand how it feels to be the "new kid" and have to figure out the pecking order of a new group.

 

I also agree with you and your dh's feelings about church-going. I know many people who leave their kids with sitters several nights a week to do things at the church. They are good things to do (bible studies, prayers groups, etc...) but not if you have to continually leave your family to do them. I think some people go overboard and like others to see what a good Lutheran/Baptist/Catholic they are by how much they do for the church. It's better to actually feed the poor than to go to church 4 times a week to listen to someone tell you to feed the poor.

 

So....what is your plan at this point? Are you going to keep going to the group? Is it worth it, or will it be awkward? In my opinion, if you really like the group but it feels awkward I would bite the bullet and just talk to her about how you felt about receiving a book like that.

 

Good luck!

-Mrs. F

 

 

I'm not sure at this point how I will handle the situation. My note was from the heart to her and very gentle. I explained that "some" mothers might take it as a judgement in being handed a book on discipline without explanation (especially from a woman who is all done raising kids). I'm careful with my words, but hers back were bitter. I decided to not respond right away to her note and let her think about what I said. I also told her it is more powerful to invite someone out for coffee and really get to know them personally as opposed to handing over a book. I told her that I would love to get to know HER better and I'm all ears for words of wisdom. She told me that she is too busy working and serving for that type of relationship.

 

That is exactly my point and exactly why my dh and I don't bog ourselves down in all these programs. If some of these people would put their families first, marriages first, we would not need all these programs to fix the problems.

 

On another note - her daugther that homeschools lives with her (and her whole family). She has continuously complained about needing a "date" with her husband because she spends all her spare time at church serving. Her husband works and spends all his spare time there. It's insane. So, I think there is a big clash and resentment that on nights when Awana is taking place, I'm out on a date with my husband and I don't feel guilty for it.

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it would bother me a lot. I am an introvert *and* sensitive to unsolicted parenting advice. So much so that I never recommend moms give "counter" books, sites or articles unless they are asked - even if the family has a style or oaradigm I disagree with.

 

Parenting is by nature intimate and passionate. Assuming a role of "advice giver" or evaluator in my life is inappropriate unless our relationship has developed into that.

 

I agree with your reaction and response. Sorry her response was awkward but *she* made the first awkaward move.

 

:iagree:

 

Well, she did not say anything other than, "Jana! I have a book for you!" We have other ladies in our group with kids. She did not offer the book to them, so it felt as if she singled me out. It was just random, so it wasn't like some other mom my age passing a book on, it was different. But, I can be sensitive when it comes to stuff like that and so that is why I was wanting to know what other mothers thought. :001_smile:

 

I would have felt singled out too. Generally if I am excited about a book I mention it to someone and ask if they would like to borrow it, not assume that they want or have the time to read it. If you felt like she was "waiting for you" that would only add to my discomfort.

 

I would find it obnoxious, too, if someone was waiting for me with a discipline book just out of the blue like that. I'm not supposed to feel even slightly offended by a book like this? We're not just talking about any old novel from Oprah's book club, but more like a self-help book/instruction manual. To me, this is about as subtle as giving someone a pair of Odor-Eaters or Listerine.

:sneaky2:

 

:iagree: Now if I had asked for advice or recommendations of books that is one thing. An out of the blue type of thing has my mind working overtime as to the intent of the giver.

 

How about if you changed the situation and received homeschooling advice and books out of the blue. Even though you were firm on YOUR educational convictions and had asked for no advice, how would you feel?

Edited by elegantlion
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I completely agree with everything here, but wanted to add just a little bit more...

There are two options here:

1.) She gave you the book and doesn't think there's anything wrong with your parenting, just thought you might enjoy the book or find it useful. How nice of her!

OR...

2.) She gave you the book because she thinks perhaps you could use a bit of guidance regarding parenting skills and was trying to be tactful in not telling you that straight out. Again, how nice of her to care enough to do that!

 

You can certainly take the book's advice, or leave it, but really your response to her offering could seem possibly maybe to have a teeny-tiny edge of defensiveness. Had it been me, when she presented me with the book I would have said, "Oh, how nice of you to think of me!" and then I would have (*with a smile*) said affectionately, "are you trying to tell me something?" And then....I would have listened for her answer. If she's not a malicious person, perhaps it would be worth asking her honestly if she sees a problem, or something she thinks you might be able to do better on, and then being open to her answer, as a fellow sister in Christ.

 

All of this advice goes out the window if you truly believe she's just a malicious you-know-what who's known for making trouble where there isn't any. :001_smile:

 

:iagree:

 

Some books are so good that you feel like sharing and maybe that's what her intentions were - pure and simple.

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I just want to give you a virtual hug! I know exactly how you felt. My ds12 has sensory processing dysfunction, anxiety/OCD, and a language disorder. Could easily be diagnosed with ADHD, although I think that behavior is really tied to the anxiety and sensory issues. He can seem a bit Aspbergerish, too, although the doctor ruled out that diagnosis.

 

Since he was a toddler, we have dealt with unsolicited advice from family members, friends, and fellow church members. We have felt very judged and isolated. We still feel that way sometimes, even though we know about our ds's issues and are trying to help. It can be a lonely road. I'm tremendously thankful for a few friends who have kids with "issues" who can understand.

 

Wendi

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I would assume that she just read a book she found especially meaningful or helpful to her and is eager to share her enthusiasm. I can remember excitedly telling others about "Mothering" magazine when I discovered it many many years ago.

 

I think there's a big difference between "Mothering" magazine and a book specifically about how to discipline your children. I think giving a book like this,out of the blue , to a woman walking into church with her family would be in the same category of rudeness as handing a fat person a book about dieting/weight loss.

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I think there's a big difference between "Mothering" magazine and a book specifically about how to discipline your children. I think giving a book like this,out of the blue , to a woman walking into church with her family would be in the same category of rudeness as handing a fat person a book about dieting/weight loss.

 

:iagree:

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I would have been offended also. However, it sounds like you are not close to this women, and don't really get along to begin with. So, I would have let it go, let roll off my back, if she was not an important figure in my life. In my experience letters in these situations NEVER turn out good(even if you are close to the person). If you really felt like you should say something, it should have probably been in person. Even though you said your letter was gentle, without a tone of voice and facial expressions, things can be taken in ways that they are not meant. Just somethings to think about. Sorry, you have to deal with someone like this.

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I would have just either, commented that I know she must have tons of people requesting books from her, and it must have been for someone else,

Carrie

 

That's a good response. And that actually happened to me once with a lady at church. I was quite baffled until it was figured out. I felt really weird, but I am glad I didn't say something to hurt her feelings. She just made a mistake. That was my first thought...

 

And I had someone give me a book on marriage once like that - just came over and gave it to me. I read it and loved it. Although, I strongly suspect she felt like we needed it, and I felt a bit offended. We did need it and read it and gleaned what I could from it. She meant well not to insult, so I took it that way. Then I proceeded to give it to 8 friends...hope they werent' offended by it.

 

I'm not sure at this point how I will handle the situation. My note was from the heart to her and very gentle. I explained that "some" mothers might take it as a judgement in being handed a book on discipline without explanation (especially from a woman who is all done raising kids). I'm careful with my words, but hers back were bitter. I decided to not respond right away to her note and let her think about what I said. I also told her it is more powerful to invite someone out for coffee and really get to know them personally as opposed to handing over a book. I told her that I would love to get to know HER better and I'm all ears for words of wisdom. She told me that she is too busy working and serving for that type of relationship.

 

That is exactly my point and exactly why my dh and I don't bog ourselves down in all these programs. If some of these people would put their families first, marriages first, we would not need all these programs to fix the problems.

 

On another note - her daugther that homeschools lives with her (and her whole family). She has continuously complained about needing a "date" with her husband because she spends all her spare time at church serving. Her husband works and spends all his spare time there. It's insane. So, I think there is a big clash and resentment that on nights when Awana is taking place, I'm out on a date with my husband and I don't feel guilty for it.

 

:confused: Yikes okay hmm after reading that may I would have been offended...

 

I just feel like there is always room to improve, and I am willing to take what I can and improve what I can where I can. I don't compromise my beliefs and change my parenting style, but I am willing to listen and see what I can glean but that's just me.

Edited by Steph
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I have been in a small group through a local church for a few months now. My husband and I are still getting to know the people, but don't have close relationships at this point. The wife of the couple that hosts the group handed me a book on Sunday that was called "Don't Make Me Count to Three" - a book about using Godly discipline with your kids. I walked in the church and it was as if she was standing there waiting and anticipating my arrival to give this book to me.

 

I came home and sent her a nice note mentioning that her offer of a book like that could be taken as a judgement when given so randomly. I had not asked for help with my parenting or complained about struggles in this area. (we could all use wisdom and help, but my boys are good boys - not perfect boys, but there has never been a behavior issue I'm aware of that would warrent an intervention). Without a solid relationship foundation and without an explanation of why she was offering the book, I took it as being rather obnoxious. My note to her was very sweet and my point to her was that there is a discernment that goes along with offering a book such as the one she gave. It would be like having someone hanging out with you and your husband and having a good time and then having someone randomly offer a marriage book - with no explanation.

 

Her note back to me was written with an offended tone "if you don't want it, don't read it".

 

So, I'm just curious as to how other women would interpret the situation -honestly.

 

I haven't read the whole thread yet so here is my initial reaction to your original post.

 

I think your response was rude and I would have been offended had I received it. If your children are truly well behaved then you have nothing to be offended about. I'm guessing she just wanted to share a parenting book with you that she found helpful. The fact that you were so offended leads me to believe that you may worry about your kids behavior sometimes. I think everyone's been there before; I know I have!:tongue_smilie:

 

I would have said "Thank you" and either read the book, put in on a shelf or donated it based on how relevant I thought it was.

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Okay, I've read through the whole thread. I still stand my original post. It sounds like your family is struggling with this church/group. Your email to her just sounds like you were trying to school her on how SHE should behave. Your email did to her just what her giving you the book did to you. It's the exact same thing. Saying something offensive is still offensive no matter how nicely you say it. It sounds like maybe she was just trying to reach out to you and you blew it. I would definitely clear the air with her, in person. I would explain the trouble you've had in this congregation and that the book gift felt like an insult. If this church isn't a fit for your family find another one. Your son can still attend awanas there.

 

Honestly, this just sounds like each side pushing their views on the other. You and your dh want them to understand that they are not in concordance with God's word because they are not giving of themselves personally to other. They are trying to get you guys to understand that you aren't in concordance with God's word because you don't serve the CHURCH before others. This may be a discrepancy that can't be reconciled with this group of people. I not saying either side is wrong, just that they aren't meshing well. Both sides need to offer some grace, IMO.

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I still think that you did the right thing by writing the note. I don't think there was anything rude about it. It sounds like you handled it privately and respectfully with her. She gave her POV and you did too.

 

I don't see what the big deal is?

 

I'd much rather have honest communication with people than the behind the back seething and eye rolling that goes on. But I admit I don't get the passive-aggressive behavior games that women often play with each other.

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I know the awkward feeling. However...

 

You didn't send her a "thank you" note. You sent her a "Thanks, BUT" note. Big difference. Hence her reaction.

 

You may think you were careful in your words, but you lectured an older woman in the Body. In writing, no less. Do you really think she'd want to get together with you for coffee after receiving a note like that? When you wrote her that note, you were telling her the exact opposite of, "I would love to get to know you better and I'm all ears for words of wisdom." When she responded to you that she "is too busy working and serving for that type of relationship", she was probably trying to find a polite way of telling you that she doesn't want you to hurt her anymore.

 

We are at a point where we will continue in this group OR our unwillingness to busy our lives to the extent that they do will close their hearts to us. It is a sad thing, but I'm trying to discern if we will ever really be accepted there, or not. It makes me sad and it makes me frustrated that programs, systems and all that goes along with it gets in the way of what it is really all about to begin with. We are Christians, but if we don't conform to being behind the walls, we just don't fit and our kids can't fit. I'm frustrated by that.

 

I think you're letting your pride in your enlightened opinions about church, parenting, and programs (much of which I share, btw) get in the way of loving someone who isn't very lovely in your eyes.

 

this is the type of family that corrects their children around every corner with scripture and although I do use scripture with my parenting, I'm careful in the way I use it with my kids.

 

And of course, SHE'S not careful about it, is she? What could you possibly learn from someone as legalistic as she appears to be?

 

they all make me really uncomfortable and at times feel insecure (my issue, not theirs). They are quiet and you never know what they are thinking.

 

She is a book-giver, my first week she handed me a book.

 

So, let me get this straight. She's not much of a talker, probably never has been much of one, but her "love language" is giving things, especially books. You knew this about her, and you still felt attacked?

 

I'm quiet, too (at first), but I still exude warmth to people.

 

Your note exuded anything but warmth. It exuded, "Back off. Who are you to tell me what to do?!" You probably overestimate how much warmth you exude. Lots of warmth to people you click with, little or none to people you don't click with. (I'm guilty of this myself sometimes.)

 

it was as if she was standing there waiting and anticipating my arrival to give this book to me.

 

Do you know how many times I've tried to hand something off to someone "when I see them at church", only to have the darn thing sit in my car or near my front door for three weeks? I'd be better off mailing it. Try doing that with a Pyrex casserole dish.

 

Did you ever consider that the reason the other women didn't get a book from her that day is because they've already received one from her?

 

My initial response was a smile and a phoney, "oh, thanks! I love to read books like this! But, I was lieing, I was not happy about it.

 

And now she knows you're cold, prickly, AND phony.

 

It sounds like you haven't opened up your hearts to them at all. Why should they keep theirs open to you? They're not good enough for you anyway, with all your pure opinions about how to do church and raise kids.

 

One important lesson I've had to learn the hard way: Love other people more than you love being "right". I'm still learning how to do that.

 

The "she did it first" argument doesn't fly. You owe her an apology.

 

I know I probably sound harsh. But it IS in writing, after all.

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I think there's a big difference between "Mothering" magazine and a book specifically about how to discipline your children. I think giving a book like this,out of the blue , to a woman walking into church with her family would be in the same category of rudeness as handing a fat person a book about dieting/weight loss.

 

 

LOL! I am very embarrassed to admit that I did that very thing in my early 20s to my stepmom! I really, really, thought that she would find it helpful, and that we were so close she would appreciate the gesture :blushing::blushing::blushing: Of course, I look back now and am appalled that I was so stupid!

 

Just saying that perhaps her intentions were to be helpful, despite being awkward and foolish in her approach.

 

Janna, I related so much to all that you have written in this thread. I often feel overwhelmed in my daily life, homeschooling 6 dc and other stressors, that I too have put service at my Church on the backburner. I reason that I have served wholeheartedly when I was single, and with a couple of young dc, and plan to serve in that manner again when I am more able. BUT, I worry alot about what others think of me. I do feel that the conviction to put my family and personal service to others above other Church duties to be True and Right. But, it is hard to hold on to that when you feel (real or imagined) others judgement.

 

I think at this point it would be a good idea to speak to the woman in person or a phone call. Emails can SO easily be misread as to tone and intention. You could probably smooth over a lot of hurt with a warm and loving spirit. I dont think that what you did was necessarily wrong, but at this point, I think that reconciliation should be your main concern. She is hurt, and you can help to make things right again.

 

I really enjoyed this thread. It made me think alot about how our actions are often (mis)read on many levels. Man, relationships are HARD!

 

HTH,

Kim

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Okay, I've read through the whole thread. I still stand my original post. It sounds like your family is struggling with this church/group. Your email to her just sounds like you were trying to school her on how SHE should behave. Your email did to her just what her giving you the book did to you. It's the exact same thing. Saying something offensive is still offensive no matter how nicely you say it. It sounds like maybe she was just trying to reach out to you and you blew it. I would definitely clear the air with her, in person. I would explain the trouble you've had in this congregation and that the book gift felt like an insult. If this church isn't a fit for your family find another one. Your son can still attend awanas there.

 

Honestly, this just sounds like each side pushing their views on the other. You and your dh want them to understand that they are not in concordance with God's word because they are not giving of themselves personally to other. They are trying to get you guys to understand that you aren't in concordance with God's word because you don't serve the CHURCH before others. This may be a discrepancy that can't be reconciled with this group of people. I not saying either side is wrong, just that they aren't meshing well. Both sides need to offer some grace, IMO.

 

:iagree:

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