Einstein/late talking: anecdoctal only, or fairly credible evidence?

[katilac]

I'm constantly running into the comment that "Einstein didn't speak until he was . . . (insert apparently random age, tonight alone I've seen 3, 6 and 7)."

 

Those who have read bios, is this backed up by more than the statement itself? Attributed?

 

thanks for aiding my curiousity!

[Aubrey]

I can't remember how old he was, but I know he didn't speak until after the usual time. When he did, it was in complete sentences, shocking everyone.

[Kanga]

Thomas Sowell has two books out on this subject.

 

My ds was a late talker. When he was three my dh and I were in the kitchen discussing what to do about him not talking. Ds walked in and said, "I can talk". Dh and I looked at him and at the same time said WHAT? and he replied, "I can talk". Then he didn't say a thing for another month! He did finally decide to talk around 3 and 1/2 and hasn't stopped!

 

BTW, he does have a very high IQ.

 

ETA: My late talking child was born after a very early talking child (with high IQ) and is followed by an average talker (who is young, but appears to be very bright as well). The only big difference I see in my late talker compared to sibs is that he approaches problem solving in a different way - he always finds a back door solution. His thinking style is so out of the box that you forget there ever was one.

Edited February 5, 2009 by Kanga

[Hillary in KS]

I read a biography years ago, and it said age 6. I think he spoke *rarely.* I have a vague remembrance of him only occasionally answering a "yes" or "no" question, or something like that.

 

I don't think one can assume that any child who doesn't speak until age 6 is brilliant. Nor can one assume that if your child isn't speaking at age four you shouldn't be worried. I suspect Einstein's parents were plenty worried.

 

On a personal note. There is a member of my family (not immediate) who didn't speak until age 3. (Almost 4) When she started, she never stopped. :) She's and adult and in college. She's fine now.

 

My brother rarely spoke until he was in kindergarten. He's fine too, though is still a very strong/silent-type guy. :)

[yslek]

Another non-Einstein anecdote related to the topic:

 

My Dad's best friend from childhood through college (and beyond) didn't talk until he was 4. I believe he began in complete sentences, too. The man is amazingly brilliant. :)

[Kissy]

My dh was like this..He didn't talk until 3 or 4 and then it was only in complete sentences and he is very smart as well. I guess it just goes to show you that there really are all kinds of people and everyone has their own timeframe.

[Jana]

An uncle of mine (great uncle), Harold Urey, didn't speak until he was about four. Full sentences, just like everyone has said.

 

He won the Noble Prize in chemistry in 1934 and worked on the Manhattan Project.

 

I think he qualifies as bright.

[mktkcb]

OK, here's the scoop (misc. quotes from my 4 in thick biography :o) ):

"He was slow in learning how to talk. "My parents were so worried" he later recalled, "that they consulted a doctor." Even after he had begun using words, sometime after the age of 2, he developed a quirk......whenever he had something to say, he would try it out on himself, whispering it softly until it sounded good enough to pronounce aloud....he had such difficulty with language that those around him feared he would never learn....throughout his life , Einstein had a mild form of echolalia, causing him to repeat phrases to himself, two or three times, especially if they amused him. And he generally preferred to think in pictures......"I very rarely think in words at all," he later told a psychologist. "A thought comes, and I may try to express it in words afterwards" "

 

So, it sounds like he was definitely slow talking, definite echolalia, obviously very visual spatial - to the extreme, even. Anyway, it's a great bio, for those interested. It is by Walter Isaacson, and was at Costco for a long time. A fascinating read.

[Kanga]

OK, here's the scoop (misc. quotes from my 4 in thick biography :o) ):

"He was slow in learning how to talk. "My parents were so worried" he later recalled, "that they consulted a doctor." Even after he had begun using words, sometime after the age of 2, he developed a quirk......whenever he had something to say, he would try it out on himself, whispering it softly until it sounded good enough to pronounce aloud....he had such difficulty with language that those around him feared he would never learn....throughout his life , Einstein had a mild form of echolalia, causing him to repeat phrases to himself, two or three times, especially if they amused him. And he generally preferred to think in pictures......"I very rarely think in words at all," he later told a psychologist. "A thought comes, and I may try to express it in words afterwards" "

 

So, it sounds like he was definitely slow talking, definite echolalia, obviously very visual spatial - to the extreme, even. Anyway, it's a great bio, for those interested. It is by Walter Isaacson, and was at Costco for a long time. A fascinating read.

 

Very interesting! My ds is slightly echolalic, but not like in the usual debilitating sense - more like he is playing with the new phrase. I went and asked my ds (late talker) if he thought in words or pictures. He said he mostly thinks in pictures and is sometimes frustrated with his inability to put his thoughts into words (which is amazing because it seems like he talks nonstop - I can't imagine what else is in there that he can't get out). I asked my dd (early talker) if she thinks in words or pictures and she said, "I think in words, but there is always a background picture and sometimes theme music".

 

We did take ds to a speech pathologist and a pediatric neurologist when he was young just to make sure nothing was wrong. In my gut, I felt that he was fine, but I also felt that I owed it to my ds to make absolutely sure.

[KidsHappen]

I have a late talker as well. She was at least three and a half before she started talking. She also says that she only thinks in pictures and has to translate everything into words. I think this is making it easier to learn Latin because she just translates into Latin instead of English. She does seem to have a hard time communicating her meaning to others and gets quite frustrated when others don't understand her. We did get her hearing checked because we were worried that she was so late talking.

[Osmosis Mom]

Or latish, at least. We are multi-lingual and were living in Japan. My second dd did not other to speak, but was only grunting and then her twoyear old sister would interpret. Worked for her.

 

When she turned 3, she one day left our apartment (literally left in while I was sending off older sister with dad and was busy with baby brother) and went across the street to a playmate's house (had we ever visited this family? No), knocked on their door and asked in *Japanese* if the girl was coming out to play and what not. I found her on the playground with the mother and her two daughters a short while later with the mother explaining to me what had transpired!!!!!! So, her first words were complete sentences in a foreign language to a somehwat stranger, LOL!

 

BTW, before you blame me for forgetting to check up on her, then living in Japan was totally safe. You could basically sleep on the street where we lived and expect to wake up safe and sound (plus I was young!!!!).

[katilac]

OK, here's the scoop (misc. quotes from my 4 in thick biography :o) ):

"He was slow in learning how to talk. "My parents were so worried" he later recalled, "that they consulted a doctor." Even after he had begun using words, sometime after the age of 2, he developed a quirk......whenever he had something to say, he would try it out on himself, whispering it softly until it sounded good enough to pronounce aloud....he had such difficulty with language that those around him feared he would never learn....throughout his life , Einstein had a mild form of echolalia, causing him to repeat phrases to himself, two or three times, especially if they amused him. And he generally preferred to think in pictures......"I very rarely think in words at all," he later told a psychologist. "A thought comes, and I may try to express it in words afterwards" "

 

So, it sounds like he was definitely slow talking, definite echolalia, obviously very visual spatial - to the extreme, even. Anyway, it's a great bio, for those interested. It is by Walter Isaacson, and was at Costco for a long time. A fascinating read.

 

Thank you! I really didn't want to wait until I have time to plow through the 4 inch thick biography!

 

so, speech issues for sure, but not to the degree I have often seen stated. thanks again.

[LizzyBee]

OK, here's the scoop (misc. quotes from my 4 in thick biography :o) ):

"He was slow in learning how to talk. "My parents were so worried" he later recalled, "that they consulted a doctor." Even after he had begun using words, sometime after the age of 2, he developed a quirk......whenever he had something to say, he would try it out on himself, whispering it softly until it sounded good enough to pronounce aloud....he had such difficulty with language that those around him feared he would never learn....throughout his life , Einstein had a mild form of echolalia, causing him to repeat phrases to himself, two or three times, especially if they amused him. And he generally preferred to think in pictures......"I very rarely think in words at all," he later told a psychologist. "A thought comes, and I may try to express it in words afterwards" "

 

So, it sounds like he was definitely slow talking, definite echolalia, obviously very visual spatial - to the extreme, even. Anyway, it's a great bio, for those interested. It is by Walter Isaacson, and was at Costco for a long time. A fascinating read.

 

Thanks for posting this. That explains why he is sometimes included on lists of successful dyslexics.

[Guest liSALOVER]

Contrarian here. I believe in einstein syndrome not aspbergers or pdd or asd. I believe in autism as a serious condition kids do not outgrow. notice how no kids are cognitively behind anymore, there is no serious expressive/receptive language delay, no shyness, no bossy kids. any kid who has delays and doesnt fit the mold is autistic. not late with speech or social behavior but have quirks- no biggie! This is such junk science by COMPETITIVE PARENTS. Look at the people on this board. has any late talker just turned out normal but average???? why do they have to be geniuses? geniuses are rare! Just wait. Soon one in twenty will be "autistic." this is gross. Parents arent normal anymore. they all work all day and ignore kids or get school district to raise their kids.

[Orthodox6]

I can't remember how old he was, but I know he didn't speak until after the usual time. When he did, it was in complete sentences, shocking everyone.

 

I do not know about Einstein.

 

I do know about my eldest child. He said nothing other than "Mama" and "Dada" until he was a little past three years old. He then burst forth with full-paragraph conversations. We decided that he was too mule-stubborn to speak until he knew he could deliver flawless speeches.

[Orthodox6]

Contrarian here. I believe in einstein syndrome not aspbergers or pdd or asd. I believe in autism as a serious condition kids do not outgrow. notice how no kids are cognitively behind anymore, there is no serious expressive/receptive language delay, no shyness, no bossy kids. any kid who has delays and doesnt fit the mold is autistic. not late with speech or social behavior but have quirks- no biggie! This is such junk science by COMPETITIVE PARENTS. Look at the people on this board. has any late talker just turned out normal but average???? why do they have to be geniuses? geniuses are rare! Just wait. Soon one in twenty will be "autistic." this is gross. Parents arent normal anymore. they all work all day and ignore kids or get school district to raise their kids.

 

Goodness, mercy ! Spare yourself, then, and stay away from the Special Needs board, many users of which deal for years with these legitimate and very real health conditions !

 

O-6

(a woman with ADHD, Asperger's, and major depression, who has DS#2 with ADHD, anxieties, and NVLD, DS#3 with Asperger's and NVLD, and DD with ADHD, major depression, and NVLD) (no geniuses among us, but who cares about such idiocy, anyway ?!)

Edited May 21, 2010 by Orthodox6

[nono]

My son said an occasional word here and there, and then stopped talking. Everyone, 'cept me and our pediatrician, were concerned. I'd convey my feelings on the subject by telling folks, "If ds can't speak by 3, I'll take him to speech therapy. I won't worry until then." Well, he did go for an evaluation 2 months before his 3rd birthday and the speech therapist suggested I read "The Einstein Syndrome" by Thomas Sowell. She suspected he might fit this profile.

 

Fast forward to the day after his 3rd birthday and 3rd birthday party. I was changing his diaper, and he looke me in the eye and said, "<his name>'s three. <His name> talk now." And he did. From that day forward. His pronounciation was really good from the start. And I knew I had a handful, as he's comprehending everything around him!

 

Now, I don't think he's Einstein genius, but I do think he fits that profile (stubborn!, late potty trainer, good at puzzles, loves music) that Sowell notes in the book.

 

P.S. Osmosis Mom, that's about the coolest story ever about a child!

[*Jessica*]

Fast forward to the day after his 3rd birthday and 3rd birthday party. I was changing his diaper, and he looke me in the eye and said, "<his name>'s three. <His name> talk now." And he did. From that day forward. His pronounciation was really good from the start. And I knew I had a handful, as he's comprehending everything around him!

 

Now, I don't think he's Einstein genius, but I do think he fits that profile (stubborn!, late potty trainer, good at puzzles, loves music) that Sowell notes in the book.

This sounds like my brother, whose first word was not a word at all but an entire sentence, "I have my finger up my nose." :lol: And he did! He is incredibly stubborn and was easily bored by school (plus excellent at puzzles and probably the biggest music-lover I've every known. I need to read this book you're talking about!) His 4th grade teacher thought he had a learning disability, so they tested his IQ and it was very high. In high school he did the very least he had to do to pass a class. He would ask his teachers for his grade average and get exactly the score he needed on a test to continue to pass the class. Unfortunately my parents didn't know what to do with him. I wish they had had the resources to homeschool him and let his potential develop!

[Rosie_0801]

I know it's all new agey stuff and probably mumbo jumbo, but I enjoyed reading up on "Crystal Children" recently. It's common for them to be late talkers, apparently, and their description fit my daughter very well indeed! She's three and a two word sentence is cause for celebration. If she's going to start talking in these miraculous full sentences, it hasn't happened yet :glare: I think she doesn't particularly like talking so hasn't bothered to learn. My cousin (aged 4) was over last week. He talked non-stop and my dd kept telling him to shush. Isn't there some Chinese philosophy that we only have a limited amount of words assigned to us for our lifetime, or something similar? I think my daughter subscribes...

 

Rosie

[SproutMamaK]

Contrarian here. I believe in einstein syndrome not aspbergers or pdd or asd. I believe in autism as a serious condition kids do not outgrow. notice how no kids are cognitively behind anymore, there is no serious expressive/receptive language delay, no shyness, no bossy kids. any kid who has delays and doesnt fit the mold is autistic. not late with speech or social behavior but have quirks- no biggie! This is such junk science by COMPETITIVE PARENTS. Look at the people on this board. has any late talker just turned out normal but average???? why do they have to be geniuses? geniuses are rare! Just wait. Soon one in twenty will be "autistic." this is gross. Parents arent normal anymore. they all work all day and ignore kids or get school district to raise their kids.

 

 

Wow, that is so ridiculously offensive, that I feel like I MUST argue... oh wait. One post, controversial topic with an obviously inflammatory nature... Hm, where have I seen this before? :glare:

 

In other words - if you're gonna troll, you might wanna work on your finesse a little before you dive right into the genre of attacking special needs children. If you're gonna successfully do THAT kind of trolling, you need to work the crowd for a while first. ;)

[Alphabetika]

Another non-Einstein anecdote related to the topic:

 

My Dad's best friend from childhood through college (and beyond) didn't talk until he was 4. I believe he began in complete sentences, too. The man is amazingly brilliant. :)

 

A dear friend of mine was the same way - didn't speak until 4, started with well-constructed sentences, has an amazing brain. Even now he often waits a long time before answering a question, or has long pauses in his speech. He wants whatever he says to be fully thought out.

[Alphabetika]

Contrarian here. I believe in einstein syndrome not aspbergers or pdd or asd. I believe in autism as a serious condition kids do not outgrow. notice how no kids are cognitively behind anymore, there is no serious expressive/receptive language delay, no shyness, no bossy kids. any kid who has delays and doesnt fit the mold is autistic. not late with speech or social behavior but have quirks- no biggie! This is such junk science by COMPETITIVE PARENTS. Look at the people on this board. has any late talker just turned out normal but average???? why do they have to be geniuses? geniuses are rare! Just wait. Soon one in twenty will be "autistic." this is gross. Parents arent normal anymore. they all work all day and ignore kids or get school district to raise their kids.

 

What on EARTH are you talking about? :confused::confused:

[Jean in Newcastle]

What on EARTH are you talking about? :confused::confused:

 

Don't feed the troll. . .

[Orthodox6]

Wow, that is so ridiculously offensive, that I feel like I MUST argue... oh wait. One post, controversial topic with an obviously inflammatory nature... Hm, where have I seen this before? :glare:

 

In other words - if you're gonna troll, you might wanna work on your finesse a little before you dive right into the genre of attacking special needs children. If you're gonna successfully do THAT kind of trolling, you need to work the crowd for a while first. ;)

 

Stooopid I, just went to view the poster's profile page. Does anybody know how I can have my visit erased ? Help ?!?!

[Alphabetika]

Don't feed the troll. . .

 

Oops...sorry.

[SproutMamaK]

For anyone interested in actual conversation about this, Einstein is one of the "poster children" for autism. Speaking late, very socially awkward, different understand in math and the sciences, visual/spatially oriented, echolalia, reportedly often speaking in a repetitive/scripted way, etc, etc. If there's a "classic" sign of autism, Einstein displayed it.

 

I don't like that he's been put forward as one of the faces of autism becasue it's purely anecdotal, and there was no understanding of it at the time. At any point someone could say, "But Einstein DID do this, and that's no autistic, and he behaved in this way, and that's DEFINITELY not autistic." And that lends credibility to people like our lovely friend on page two, who like to pretend the issue is just in everyone's imagination.

[newlifemom]

Stooopid I, just went to view the poster's profile page. Does anybody know how I can have my visit erased ? Help ?!?!

 

I do that every time I suspect a troll or spammer. Should I not?

[newlifemom]

Don't feed the troll. . .

 

We need a smiley here that says that. :D

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

I don't remember when DS started to talk, but I do remember we were worried about him, and about to consult a doctor. And we're not a worrying type...

However, he could read letters and numbers at 18 months, out loud. It was his favourite game, to go to a parking lot and read license plates aloud. But he couldn't say 'mommy'. Then he grew and got a tad taller, and started reading car names "Toyota Camry", "Saturn", "Honda". That's how he learned to read! Car phonics! He still didn't say 'mommy' (or anything else for that matter, but he could read!?!??)

[Orthodox6]

We need a smiley here that says that. :D

 

Did you see the cute troll picture that I posted recently? Was it you, or someone else, for whom I did that ?

[newlifemom]

Did you see the cute troll picture that I posted recently? Was it you, or someone else, for whom I did that ?

 

I am so lazy. I don't know how to import those kinds of things. That is why I want one that I can click on here. :tongue_smilie: Hmmm, wonder if I can do it from my new, IPHONE! :D

 

 

I doubt it.

[Orthodox6]

I am so lazy. I don't know how to import those kinds of things. That is why I want one that I can click on here. :tongue_smilie: Hmmm, wonder if I can do it from my new, IPHONE! :D

 

 

I doubt it.

 

Here is the link: http://www.salagir.com/gfx/troll-web.jpg

 

I thought the troll looked innocently dismayed, so posted the photo.

Perhaps you can download it? I'm not up on all the current "toys", so can't advise you.

[newlifemom]

Is this how you do it?

Edited May 22, 2010 by newlifemom
I did it I did it I did it!