Jump to content

Menu

Anyone watch Ted Haggard on Oprah today?


Guest janainaz
 Share

Recommended Posts

What new information? I read an article about him in Newsweek recently. I find the whole situation intriguing, but not sure I know what's "new."

 

astrid

 

He admits to an inapproptriate (and New Life, his former church confirms there was more than one) relationship with an intern. Late teens, I believe, and he looked to Haggard as a mentor. There was no touching, but exposure of self, and this teen was payed 6 digits to help with therapy.

 

I'll look for a link.

 

Here's a link. I believe these guys broke the story.

Edited by JudoMom
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the link. Personally, I think it's SICK SICK SICK for that TV station to have a "Scandal Message Board" up. That's like throwing chum into the water in the midst of a feeding frenzy. So sad for all involved.

 

 

astrid

 

I can understand that, however, it's so big out here and has affected so many people (pretty much everybody knows somebody who goes to that church), that they are giving people a place to discuss it, rather than overwhelming them with emails. But yeah, I can understand your disgust. Their coverage has actually been rather fair (for example, they didn't air the story until New Life had time to answer a list of questions) to both sides.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest janainaz

On Oprah today, I just thought it was profound how for so many years he's been in the pulpit preaching a message about a God he did not really even know (in a sad way). He talked about how his message was always about people's need to seek God and yet he learned that it was God who was seeking him - in the depth of his pit. His kids were in the audience and both made statements that they did not really know their father before the scandal broke out and that they felt disconnected from him. I imagine he painted an image of what he wanted them to see and in doing so, his kids never knew him. It reminded me of the scripture in the Bible when Jesus said, "depart from me.....for I never knew you". What Ted Haggard found was that even in the shame of his sin, his children and wife did love him, not for what he did, but merely for who he was. Unfortunately most of the "church" did not and exiled him. He embraced the fact that God came for the unrighteous and the sick and I find it so interesting that he was exiled in the way that he was when the body of Christ was supposed to be at work. People will never experience real love unless they let go of the image. It just demonstrated that what God wants is to know us.

 

I thought the message was deep.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

the church wanted "Ted to not preach any more and leave Colorado." She felt that the church was not only acting in the interest of their congregation but also in the interest of protecting the Haggard family.

 

What was really wonderful to see was Gayle's love and graciousness throughout the interview. Kudos to Gayle Haggard!

 

Claire in NM

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That is so unfortunate. I know people assume they're predators looking for positions of trust to hide behind, but I always wonder if these men enter the clergy as a way of reaching out for help, out of the hope that their faith will heal them. :confused:

 

And what damage! It has to be demoralizing for the entire body that looked to him for spiritual guidance, let alone the victims!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest janainaz
That is so unfortunate. I know people assume they're predators looking for positions of trust to hide behind, but I always wonder if these men enter the clergy as a way of reaching out for help, out of the hope that their faith will heal them. :confused:

 

And what damage! It has to be demoralizing for the entire body that looked to him for spiritual guidance, let alone the victims!

 

Ted claimed that he asked for help with his battle and the response was to serve more. I just wonder where a pastor would be able to turn for help with his own sin? Pastors are human in need of God's grace. People aught not place anyone on a pedestal and this is one lesson that should be learned.

 

I believe that the word of his testimony now is far more powerful than his preaching ever was behind the pulpit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ted claimed that he asked for help with his battle and the response was to serve more. I just wonder where a pastor would be able to turn for help with his own sin? Pastors are human in need of God's grace. QUOTE]

 

It's true that pastors, like everyone else, need to be able to confess their sins and get forgiveness, and to get healing.

 

But, if someone is attracted to children, for instance, it's not reasonable for them to be a pastor of a congregation with children, or a children's music teacher, or a boy scout or girl scout leader, or a school teacher; because they are putting themselves in a position of power over children that they are attracted to and could easily harm. We know so much more now than we did about this issue and how it plays out. Someone who is attracted to children is not qualified for any job of authority or leadership over them. They have to find another job.

 

And in general, there is Biblical support for holding pastors to a higher standard of public morality than laity, just as part of their qualifications for that position.

 

(I'm not judging this specific situation as I don't know enough about it. Just the general idea.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But I think they probably felt they had to ask him to leave.

 

He had s@x multiple times with a prostitute. He lied about it to his family. He lied about it on television, he lied and said that the prostitute was a liar.

 

Those are not irredeemable sins. God is bigger than that. But don't you think the church probably needed to be pastored by someone that they could have trust with? And when a pastor steps down from the pulpit, he often needs to leave the community for a while so that the next pastor isn't having to compete with the old pastor "camp."

 

I didn't see the show, don't know that much about it, and don't know anyone associated with that church, but did you leave the show really feeling angry at the church for that decision? It seems like a fair enough decision to me, and it sounds like where ever the family went, there has been some real healing, so maybe it worked out okay for them.

 

I do have a lot of sympathy for people who find themselves in a very public state of sin. Most of us have the luxury of keeping our sins closer to the chest:(

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest janainaz
Ted claimed that he asked for help with his battle and the response was to serve more. I just wonder where a pastor would be able to turn for help with his own sin? Pastors are human in need of God's grace. QUOTE]

 

It's true that pastors, like everyone else, need to be able to confess their sins and get forgiveness, and to get healing.

 

But, if someone is attracted to children, for instance, it's not reasonable for them to be a pastor of a congregation with children, or a children's music teacher, or a boy scout or girl scout leader, or a school teacher; because they are putting themselves in a position of power over children that they are attracted to and could easily harm. We know so much more now than we did about this issue and how it plays out. Someone who is attracted to children is not qualified for any job of authority or leadership over them. They have to find another job.

 

And in general, there is Biblical support for holding pastors to a higher standard of public morality than laity, just as part of their qualifications for that position.

 

(I'm not judging this specific situation as I don't know enough about it. Just the general idea.)

 

I thought I had mentioned in one of my earlier posts, maybe I didn't..... I certainly agreed with him being made to step down from his position as pastor.

 

I understand biblically what the Bible says about how pastors should be and how they should handle their households, but I still don't put any pastor or person on a pedestal. There are many pastors whose families know only their image and not the real person. It just goes to show they can say all the right things and preach and teach all the right things, but there are a LOT of pastors who have problems with their kids. Even in the church we've been attending this last year, we see people being pressured to serve God at the church and putting their families on the back burner. Some of these churches are backwards and it's under a pastor who is supposed to be responsible for his flock.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know people assume they're predators looking for positions of trust to hide behind, but I always wonder if these men enter the clergy as a way of reaching out for help, out of the hope that their faith will heal them.

 

I'm a jaded cynic. I believe that adults attracted to near children and seek positions of power and access to children aren't seeking help. They are constructing their avenues of acting out.

 

I don't believe pedophiles are *ever* healed on earth.

 

Sickos who like children sexually go where the children are. Sadly, they are often the most "kind", charismatic, persuasive, charming.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest janainaz
But I think they probably felt they had to ask him to leave.

 

He had s@x multiple times with a prostitute. He lied about it to his family. He lied about it on television, he lied and said that the prostitute was a liar.

 

Those are not irredeemable sins. God is bigger than that. But don't you think the church probably needed to be pastored by someone that they could have trust with? And when a pastor steps down from the pulpit, he often needs to leave the community for a while so that the next pastor isn't having to compete with the old pastor "camp."

 

I didn't see the show, don't know that much about it, and don't know anyone associated with that church, but did you leave the show really feeling angry at the church for that decision? It seems like a fair enough decision to me, and it sounds like where ever the family went, there has been some real healing, so maybe it worked out okay for them.

 

I do have a lot of sympathy for people who find themselves in a very public state of sin. Most of us have the luxury of keeping our sins closer to the chest:(

 

 

Ted and his wife have since then returned to Colorado. I didn't quite catch if they were living there again, but much of the congregation has welcomed them back and supported them. I was happy to hear that. Again, I was not against the decision they made to have Ted step down, or even to leave for a time.

 

I'm not sure I can write it out the way I'm thinking about it, but I just thought it was interesting how he found freedom and true healing by having his sin brought out in the open. I thought it was interesting that up until that point he had not encountered the true and real love of God, but rather an idea of God he had only read about on paper. I think much of the "church" walks around with their image, doing the outward and on the inside living in total bondage of sin. The church is supposed to be for the sick and only in acknowledging that you are sick are you able to be healed, truly healed.

 

Ted made the statement that his family chose to forgive him, but the church did not (I interpreted that as the church leaders). Something is wrong with that.

Edited by janainaz
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I do find it troubling that the New Life Church evidently paid the man with whom Ted Haggard had the "inappropriate" relationship a six-figure settlement on the condition he not discuss the matter publicly.

 

The Church claims this was not "hush money", but it sure has the appearance of such.

 

Bill

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As I understand it, there were conditions he agreed to meet (it was an agreement between the church leaders and himself). These included finishing some sort of program in another state (he didn't, from what I recall), not coming back to CO (he did, at least briefly), and not pastoring another church (he is, or at least was).

 

It's not that the church leaders didn't forgive him, it's that he broke his end of the bargain he agreed to when the first scandal broke.

 

 

Ted made the statement that his family chose to forgive him, but the church did not (I interpreted that as the church leaders). Something is wrong with that.

Edited by JudoMom
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

I'm not sure I can write it out the way I'm thinking about it, but I just thought it was interesting how he found freedom and true healing by having his sin brought out in the open. I thought it was interesting that up until that point he had not encountered the true and real love of God, but rather an idea of God he had only read about on paper.

 

The truth will set you free:)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ted claimed that he asked for help with his battle and the response was to serve more. I just wonder where a pastor would be able to turn for help with his own sin? Pastors are human in need of God's grace. People aught not place anyone on a pedestal and this is one lesson that should be learned.

 

I believe that the word of his testimony now is far more powerful than his preaching ever was behind the pulpit.

 

If he wanted help with his battle, he should have stepped down and he should have sought help. Instead he was ashamed and prideful and sought more power from behind the pulpit.

 

I think he's doing more damage to the church and to the people he hurt by continuing to speak out. He's a very charasmatic personality, but he's not telling the whole truth.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Ted made the statement that his family chose to forgive him, but the church did not (I interpreted that as the church leaders). Something is wrong with that.

 

I didn't see the show, but did you get the impression that he was holding onto hard feelings against the church? If so, that would tend make me question whether he has truly repented, or is actually right with God now. If he understood how terribly his sin affected the church, and all of those people who were trusting him, I would think that he would understand why the church took the actions it did, even if he didn't agree that they were 100% correct. Imo, those things pale in comparison to what he did to that congregation.

Edited by Erica in PA
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If he wanted help with his battle, he should have stepped down and he should have sought help. Instead he was ashamed and prideful and sought more power from behind the pulpit.

 

I think he's doing more damage to the church and to the people he hurt by continuing to speak out. He's a very charasmatic personality, but he's not telling the whole truth.

 

I agree. From all that I have seen and heard, I am not confident that this man is 100% on the up and up now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If he wanted help with his battle, he should have stepped down and he should have sought help. Instead he was ashamed and prideful and sought more power from behind the pulpit.

 

I think he's doing more damage to the church and to the people he hurt by continuing to speak out. He's a very charasmatic personality, but he's not telling the whole truth.

 

Charisma is a hard thing to see through. Especially when that charismatic person starts bringing God into the picture.

 

What would truly impress me and convince me he had changed would be if he quietly retired and brought no more attention to himself. Until then, it just seems he's getting the validation and attention he's always wanted, he's just learned how to turn the scandal into yet another avenue for having people pay attention to him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm a jaded cynic. I believe that adults attracted to near children and seek positions of power and access to children aren't seeking help. They are constructing their avenues of acting out.

 

I don't believe pedophiles are *ever* healed on earth.

 

Sickos who like children sexually go where the children are. Sadly, they are often the most "kind", charismatic, persuasive, charming.

 

I agree with you about not being healed. I'm just not sure about, say, the apparent multitude of priests who have been outed as pedophiles in recent years. It seems to me that, if I were a man of faith and struggling with this, the priesthood would probably be an obvious choice for me to seek healing through dedication to serving God and a relatively cloistered life.

 

I don't know anything about this case in particular, other than the news article posted, but it doesn't seem to have a similar path. Or maybe it does. He seems to be a very confused person, though.

 

And he's pastoring again?? What church would think that was a good idea?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't believe pedophiles are *ever* healed on earth.

 

Sickos who like children sexually go where the children are. Sadly, they are often the most "kind", charismatic, persuasive, charming.

 

The two people that I know (or read news stories claiming) he had s@xual relationships with were both adults? The prostitute definitely was, and I have read conflicting reports that the boy in the church was in his early 20s and then in his late teens.

 

Either way, not pedophilia - just slimey sinfulness and grossness and abuse of his position. Yuck, double yuck, but not pedopilia, unless I missed other news stories, which is entirely likely.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ted made the statement that his family chose to forgive him, but the church did not (I interpreted that as the church leaders). Something is wrong with that.

 

Maybe the church forgave him, but didn't feel that he should be back in ministry there. If so, I think that that would be the right stance, under the circumstances.

 

Forgiving is one thing. Pretending that this never happened, or that these propensities and lack of self-control don't matter is quite another, and would be inappropriate in these circumstances.

 

Maybe the church didn't forgive him. Maybe they are shrouded in self-righteousness. If so, they are wrong, too. But that doesn't mean that he should be a pastor there again. The two issues are somewhat separate, unfortunately.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Before I gave a lot of creedence to what Mr. Haggard had to say on Oprah, I would want to hear what the church leadership had to say, also on Oprah. But that would require her to be open to two sides to the story and that wouldn't be a show that would draw high ratings, I expect.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On Oprah today, I just thought it was profound how for so many years he's been in the pulpit preaching a message about a God he did not really even know (in a sad way). He talked about how his message was always about people's need to seek God and yet he learned that it was God who was seeking him - in the depth of his pit. His kids were in the audience and both made statements that they did not really know their father before the scandal broke out and that they felt disconnected from him. I imagine he painted an image of what he wanted them to see and in doing so, his kids never knew him. It reminded me of the scripture in the Bible when Jesus said, "depart from me.....for I never knew you". What Ted Haggard found was that even in the shame of his sin, his children and wife did love him, not for what he did, but merely for who he was. Unfortunately most of the "church" did not and exiled him. He embraced the fact that God came for the unrighteous and the sick and I find it so interesting that he was exiled in the way that he was when the body of Christ was supposed to be at work. People will never experience real love unless they let go of the image. It just demonstrated that what God wants is to know us.

 

 

I caught brief moments of it but had to run errands. I agree with you on your thoughts. The church has much to learn. We have lost so many souls due to the intentions of "well meaning" Christians. You never know who you will impact. According to my Bible, ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God. When our brothers and sisters fall, we are suppose to be there to pick him up...not judge, condemn, etc. We are to show God's love and allow God to do the rest.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...