camibami Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 ...just really like that family. We aren't the same religion. I am not a fan of skirts-only, Gothard, conservative political values,courtship or home church. But gosh darn it, I like them. They are fun, their kids are so well-adjusted, polite, well spoken and well...normal! I like Jim Bob and Michelle, I even like all the vomit-inducing J names and find myself thinking up new ones for their upcoming children. (Jasmine? Jeremy? Josephina?) I am glad they are doing this show, because it definitely has shown me that just because a family has the "perfect storm" of opposites to my family, it doesn't mean we couldn't be friends. I would love to hang out with the Duggars! I admire them a great deal, even if their life choices aren't the ones I'd make. Just wanted to share- we're watching the safari episode right now. My poor oldest is longing for 14-15 brothers and sisters! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFSinIL Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I like Michelle but can not stand Jim-Bob!!!!!! The older girls are cool, too - but Josiah seems like a smug version of his dad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrid Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 The blond-ish older girl is very pretty, IMHO. The boys, all of them, set my teeth on edge. I never see the boys doing any work; I"m sure they must, but it's the girls who are always show packing EVERYONE"S clothes for a trip, etc. Lately, that "cousin" has been on the show, keeping up a running commentary. She's obviously not been raised as conservatively as they have, but she bugs me. Sort of like that "Cousin Oliver" of the Brady Bunch kids. REmember him? In the waning seasons of the show? Every time she's on, I just keep hearing the song, "One of these things is not like the other.....one of these things just doesn't belong......." Ah well. I'm sure I could be friends with the women. With the men, however, I think I"d be too tempted to unleash my tongue. ;) astrid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swellmomma Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 :ITA I am not a fan of Jim-Bob and feel bad everytime I see those 4 older girls doing what seems like everything. I am jealous of how calm and serene Michelle is, but then I think If I had 4 near adults doing everything for me I would be serene too. Right now with only 4 kids and no one to do the cooking, cleaning, packing, teaching etc I am ready to rip my own hair out. I would love to sit down and talk with them over coffee, and do want to implement some of the choices they have made. My boys want me to have 20 kids, my daughter has told me if I have that many she is moving out, because as the oldest girl she would have to do all the work. I don't like the fact the big kids teach the youngers etc, but at the same time I admire how close and loving the kids are with each other. They are very inspiring yet at the same time they serve as a warning for me, strange mix. But I would still want to hang out with them and really get to know them kwim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katemary63 Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 :ITA I don't like the fact the big kids teach the youngers etc, but at the same time I admire how close and loving the kids are with each other. They are very inspiring yet at the same time they serve as a warning for me, strange mix. But I would still want to hang out with them and really get to know them kwim. :iagree: As likable as they are, I just can't get past the fact that the older kids are SO responsible for the younger ones. A little help now and then, sure, but teaching, bathing, dressing etc....it's too much. They are KIDS, not parents. Mom and Dad should take primary care of thier own kids. Not right in my opinion. However, I do admire many things about this family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blossom'sGirl Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Michelle strikes me as a positive person who really trusts in the Lord. I had to laugh last night as they showed her husband pouring on the hairspray. I cannot imagine my husband ever using hairspray but then again he doesn't have Ken-doll hair. The older girls are really starting to blossom into intelligent, fun-loving women. I hope they get to make some choices for their future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophia Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 We saw them in San Antonio a few weeks ago and got to say hi! They are as sweet in person as they are on tv :001_smile: I really admire this family. They have put themselves in a fishbowl and opened themselves up to all kinds of comments because they saw it as a calling from the Lord. Personally, I would have stopped opening my door to the film crew by now :D I'd love to hang out with this family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommy22alyns Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I had to laugh last night as they showed her husband pouring on the hairspray. I seriously cracked up when J-B started piling on the hairspray! :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 They have put themselves in a fishbowl and opened themselves up to all kinds of comments because they saw it as a calling from the Lord. But if we all copied them and had insanely large families we wouldn't all have a TV show to help pay the bills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie in CA Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 It is my opinion that one of the reasons those older girls are as sweet and likeable as they are is *because* of the consistent attitude of service to others that they've been taught. It seems ridiculous to like the result, but not approve of the process that got them there. I'm completely ok with having the older kids be responsible for carrying out the direction of the parents in caring for the younger ones. As for the fact that you see the girls working, but not the boys, I'm sure that it's because the premise of the show is how the family functions, and not so much about the outside work that supports them. If you came in and looked at my home situation, it would be possible you'd have the impression that my girls serve the family and their brothers way too much. If you were looking at our overall situation, you'd see that my boys are serving their sisters too, but in a different way. The boys are off in the world doing what men do to support a family. Both are working, but we just see the girls at work because that's the focus of the show. There's a lot of criticism about the fact that they've allowed cameras to intrude on their life *just for money*, but I'm not so sure that's the only reason the Duggars have agreed to doing the show. It seems clear to me from the tone of the show that there's an component of outreach for them--they are showing America a side of conservatism that many people simply don't know exists. A loving family with very traditional roles, going against the flow of current societal values, with wonderful results. That's also the reason I think they went out of their way and over-the-top to include so much about the "first kiss" and pre-wedding-night instruction. It's part of their point, to stress to the public that purity really can work and have a wonderful result. It's a ministry. Just my opinion, of course, but it's hard to deny the fact that they seem to be doing a lot of things right and are seeing the fruits of their methods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bess Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 It is my opinion that one of the reasons those older girls are as sweet and likeable as they are is *because* of the consistent attitude of service to others that they've been taught. It seems ridiculous to like the result, but not approve of the process that got them there. I'm completely ok with having the older kids be responsible for carrying out the direction of the parents in caring for the younger ones. As for the fact that you see the girls working, but not the boys, I'm sure that it's because the premise of the show is how the family functions, and not so much about the outside work that supports them. If you came in and looked at my home situation, it would be possible you'd have the impression that my girls serve the family and their brothers way too much. If you were looking at our overall situation, you'd see that my boys are serving their sisters too, but in a different way. The boys are off in the world doing what men do to support a family. Both are working, but we just see the girls at work because that's the focus of the show. There's a lot of criticism about the fact that they've allowed cameras to intrude on their life *just for money*, but I'm not so sure that's the only reason the Duggars have agreed to doing the show. It seems clear to me from the tone of the show that there's an component of outreach for them--they are showing America a side of conservatism that many people simply don't know exists. A loving family with very traditional roles, going against the flow of current societal values, with wonderful results. That's also the reason I think they went out of their way and over-the-top to include so much about the "first kiss" and pre-wedding-night instruction. It's part of their point, to stress to the public that purity really can work and have a wonderful result. It's a ministry. Just my opinion, of course, but it's hard to deny the fact that they seem to be doing a lot of things right and are seeing the fruits of their methods. Ditto to everything you said! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bess Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 But if we all copied them and had insanely large families we wouldn't all have a TV show to help pay the bills. They didn't need a tv show to pay the bills. They've got their money managed better than any other family I know! Remember they built their house with CASH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCA Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Bess and Julie said exactly what I was going to say. The Duggars are very deliberate to glorify God in every thing they do. They have been debt-free for a long time, and do not need the money from their tv show to run their house-hold. They are a great family and a great example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katemary63 Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 It is my opinion that one of the reasons those older girls are as sweet and likeable as they are is *because* of the consistent attitude of service to others that they've been taught. It seems ridiculous to like the result, but not approve of the process that got them there. I'm completely ok with having the older kids be responsible for carrying out the direction of the parents in caring for the younger ones. I like a lot of things you've had to say, but the above statement does not hold water in my opinion. I was raised in an abusive family. I have been impacted in many ways by my childhood - some of them good! Some of the good qualities I have now are the direct result of abuse! A child raised in slave labor may grow up to be a very hard worker. That doesn't justify the slavery. A child who's mother is an alchoholic and didn't care for the family, may grow up to be a great cook or excellent housekeeper because she stepped in and took on her mother's responsibilities, ( I have a friend like this) but obviously the method of her training is not justified by the skill she has as an adult. It DOES make sense to admire a quality someone has but not agree with what ever experience they had that instilled that quality in them. God says that all things work together for good for those who love Him. Those "all things" that work together for good are sometimes bad things - sin. They are still sin and should be called as such, even if, through God's grace, they produce good for one of His own. Just to be clear, I am in no way saying the Dugger's are abusive. I don't agree with having a baby and then giving it to your daughter to raise, but I am not calling it abuse. Just making a point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StaceyinLA Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 as mentioned in a couple of my recent posts, I find the legalism annoying sometimes. I do find, however, that they are very open and loving to all people. They do not seem judgmental toward others. Case in point was the show last night when they went to San Francisco for their anniversary. They were admiring the "glass" in the hippie shop they were in. Of course, it was marijuana pipes. I honestly believe they did NOT know what it was they were looking at, but they were also not judging the workers with tattoos and piercings, and they actually purchased a clothing item from the store. I truly believe they are doing a ministry with that show. It is honoring and glorifying, and I love that some of their messages are getting out there and reaching people who may not hear them otherwise. I also enjoy watching the kids. They impress me. I respect how they have been raised. It is not what I would choose for my family, but I do think the end result is wonderful. I do not personally agree with having the older children raising the younger ones and would never do it in my own family. I feel like those parents are way too hands-off with the little ones. I have rarely seen Michelle even holding one of the babies. That would not be my preference for my family. Of course, I'm fairly sure my parenting techniques wouldn't work for them either!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I never see the boys doing any work; I"m sure they must, but it's the girls who are always show packing EVERYONE"S clothes for a trip, etc. astrid The few times I'm watched it I noticed that too...but then I realized that the majority of the older kids ARE girls, so naturally they are they ones doing that sort of work. I like a lot about the family....but the ads I saw for the 'first kiss' didn't not make me want to watch that episode...Although the purity aspect is appealing to me...and I admire their position on it....I think it should not have been so played up for the cameras. They could have stated their belief on that without sooooo much discussion. But then....that is probably the producers going for ratings, more than it is them. I also didn't like the big show of praying in the restaurant...I pray silently before my meals if I am in a restaurant...and I quietly remind ds8 to do so too...but I don't like that big show in public. Reminds me of 'oh thank you God that I am not like these here sinners.' :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharon in SC Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 It is my opinion that one of the reasons those older girls are as sweet and likeable as they are is *because* of the consistent attitude of service to others that they've been taught. It seems ridiculous to like the result, but not approve of the process that got them there. I'm completely ok with having the older kids be responsible for carrying out the direction of the parents in caring for the younger ones. As for the fact that you see the girls working, but not the boys, I'm sure that it's because the premise of the show is how the family functions, and not so much about the outside work that supports them. If you came in and looked at my home situation, it would be possible you'd have the impression that my girls serve the family and their brothers way too much. If you were looking at our overall situation, you'd see that my boys are serving their sisters too, but in a different way. The boys are off in the world doing what men do to support a family. Both are working, but we just see the girls at work because that's the focus of the show. There's a lot of criticism about the fact that they've allowed cameras to intrude on their life *just for money*, but I'm not so sure that's the only reason the Duggars have agreed to doing the show. It seems clear to me from the tone of the show that there's an component of outreach for them--they are showing America a side of conservatism that many people simply don't know exists. A loving family with very traditional roles, going against the flow of current societal values, with wonderful results. That's also the reason I think they went out of their way and over-the-top to include so much about the "first kiss" and pre-wedding-night instruction. It's part of their point, to stress to the public that purity really can work and have a wonderful result. It's a ministry. Just my opinion, of course, but it's hard to deny the fact that they seem to be doing a lot of things right and are seeing the fruits of their methods. :iagree: Very well written, imho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I do find, however, that they are very open and loving to all people. They do not seem judgmental toward others. This is what has hit me most about their family. They state their beliefs and why they believe that way and somehow almost always manage to do so without being judgmental or "preachy". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elaine Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 It is my opinion that one of the reasons those older girls are as sweet and likeable as they are is *because* of the consistent attitude of service to others that they've been taught. It seems ridiculous to like the result, but not approve of the process that got them there. I'm completely ok with having the older kids be responsible for carrying out the direction of the parents in caring for the younger ones. As for the fact that you see the girls working, but not the boys, I'm sure that it's because the premise of the show is how the family functions, and not so much about the outside work that supports them. If you came in and looked at my home situation, it would be possible you'd have the impression that my girls serve the family and their brothers way too much. If you were looking at our overall situation, you'd see that my boys are serving their sisters too, but in a different way. The boys are off in the world doing what men do to support a family. Both are working, but we just see the girls at work because that's the focus of the show. There's a lot of criticism about the fact that they've allowed cameras to intrude on their life *just for money*, but I'm not so sure that's the only reason the Duggars have agreed to doing the show. It seems clear to me from the tone of the show that there's an component of outreach for them--they are showing America a side of conservatism that many people simply don't know exists. A loving family with very traditional roles, going against the flow of current societal values, with wonderful results. That's also the reason I think they went out of their way and over-the-top to include so much about the "first kiss" and pre-wedding-night instruction. It's part of their point, to stress to the public that purity really can work and have a wonderful result. It's a ministry. Just my opinion, of course, but it's hard to deny the fact that they seem to be doing a lot of things right and are seeing the fruits of their methods. Someone give this girl an AMEN!:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anewday Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 ...just really like that family. We aren't the same religion. I am not a fan of skirts-only, Gothard, conservative political values,courtship or home church. But gosh darn it, I like them. They are fun, their kids are so well-adjusted, polite, well spoken and well...normal! I like Jim Bob and Michelle, I even like all the vomit-inducing J names and find myself thinking up new ones for their upcoming children. (Jasmine? Jeremy? Josephina?) I am glad they are doing this show, because it definitely has shown me that just because a family has the "perfect storm" of opposites to my family, it doesn't mean we couldn't be friends. I would love to hang out with the Duggars! I admire them a great deal, even if their life choices aren't the ones I'd make. Just wanted to share- we're watching the safari episode right now. My poor oldest is longing for 14-15 brothers and sisters! I just wanted to say that this post blessed me today. I don't get cable so I haven't seen an episode, but can identify with you on not having the same views the Duggars have on certain things. Your decision to see past those big differences and still enjoy and admire them is an encouragement! I wish we could still rep! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovemytea Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I haven't decided how I feel about the Duggars yet. They seem very sweet and very sincere. I do have trouble with populating the world with that many children when there are so many orphans available. I understand how most people want their "own" children, but they certainly have that. If it's their desire to have children in their lives, why not adopt some? They could have had, say three, biological children and adopted 15 more. Think of the love they could have shared with children that will probably never know the love of Mommy and Daddy. I also have trouble with the mom having baby after baby that are her children, not the children of her children. These are kids, not parents. They really shouldn't have to be responsible for their siblings to the extent the show portrays. Helping out is one thing, but raising them is entirely different. I'm not sure these children even have friends. At least, from what I have seen on the show, and I haven't watched it much, it seems they are totally engulfed in the responsibilities of raising children. I think that's wrong. They need to be children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renthead Mommy Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I've watched it a number of times to give it a chance. And everytime I come away with the same feeling. The whole family bothers me. Basically the whole show creeps me out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmkclscroggins Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I find that whole family fascinating. I really want to see their grocery list though! Even though I don't agree with everything they do ( the long skirts, the older girls doing most of the work, etc.), I can't help but finding myself admiring them. Yes, Jim Bob is annoying but man is it nice to see a husband revere his wife. He seems to think "she's all that!" It seems like he definitely cherishes her. It seems like they are someone you could be friends with. melissa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audrey Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I've watched it a number of times to give it a chance. And everytime I come away with the same feeling. The whole family bothers me. Basically the whole show creeps me out. :iagree: But once, I did see that girl Jinger express an independent thought. It was almost... shocking. I like her! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bess Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 I haven't decided how I feel about the Duggars yet. They seem very sweet and very sincere. I do have trouble with populating the world with that many children when there are so many orphans available. I understand how most people want their "own" children, but they certainly have that. If it's their desire to have children in their lives, why not adopt some? They could have had, say three, biological children and adopted 15 more. Think of the love they could have shared with children that will probably never know the love of Mommy and Daddy. . But really... wouldn't you then have to say this for all parents of bio children? Shouldn't all parents then choose to have say, 1 child and adopt the other if they were planning 2, and so on? Because one family chooses to have more children than another, does not mean they have more responsibility to adopt any more than a smaller family does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 (edited) I haven't decided how I feel about the Duggars yet. They seem very sweet and very sincere. I do have trouble with populating the world with that many children when there are so many orphans available. I understand how most people want their "own" children, but they certainly have that. If it's their desire to have children in their lives, why not adopt some? They could have had, say three, biological children and adopted 15 more. Think of the love they could have shared with children that will probably never know the love of Mommy and Daddy. They're Gothardites. You'd have to understand Gothard's view of "undesirable" ophans and the "generational sins" they "inherit" from their bio-family. If you dare adopt a child you have to pray heavily over them and be harsher with them to break that bondage they are under... yeah, I was raised with people that bought this kind of bunk (I'm using my nice language...now I'm going to go find a shovel and a puke bowl). BTW, we like watching the Duggars. We have some things in common and some things not. Also please consider that not everyone is cut out for adoption or fostering. And others just don't want to deal with an agency telling them how to run their home in order to do one of these two things. Edited January 29, 2009 by mommaduck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommy22alyns Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 They didn't need a tv show to pay the bills. They've got their money managed better than any other family I know! Remember they built their house with CASH. Exactly. Unlike another big family on the same channel with a lot of kids... :glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Exactly. Unlike another big family on the same channel with a lot of kids... :glare: Well, out of about 4 large families on that channel, I THINK I know which one you refer to...the same one that just can't get their emotions and attitudes together? I really to feel for them in one respect that unlike the Duggars, they didn't GROW into their family size (yes, it makes a difference), but at the same time, you run that risk with certain types of fertility treatments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommy22alyns Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Well, out of about 4 large families on that channel, I THINK I know which one you refer to...the same one that just can't get their emotions and attitudes together? I really to feel for them in one respect that unlike the Duggars, they didn't GROW into their family size (yes, it makes a difference), but at the same time, you run that risk with certain types of fertility treatments. Yep... that would be the one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovemytea Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 No, I wouldn't. Because most bio parents don't have 18 children. And, no, I don't. You are missing my point. My point is that if someone feels the need to have that many children, I would suggest helping all the less fortunate children waiting for parents. But really... wouldn't you then have to say this for all parents of bio children? Shouldn't all parents then choose to have say, 1 child and adopt the other if they were planning 2, and so on? Because one family chooses to have more children than another, does not mean they have more responsibility to adopt any more than a smaller family does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovemytea Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Please educate me on Gothardites. I've never heard of that. And it is true that not all can afford to adopt. But, have you seen their house? I think they can. :) I don't understand why my comment is getting so much attention. I simply said how I feel. I don't recall saying it's how the Duggars feel. I am entitled to my opinion. I have no intention of moving in with them and start dictating how they live. I've only been here a day and I'm beginning to wonder if this is the kind of response I will get every time I don't agree with the general populace. They're Gothardites. You'd have to understand Gothard's view of "undesirable" ophans and the "generational sins" they "inherit" from their bio-family. If you dare adopt a child you have to pray heavily over them and be harsher with them to break that bondage they are under... yeah, I was raised with people that bought this kind of bunk (I'm using my nice language...now I'm going to go find a shovel and a puke bowl). BTW, we like watching the Duggars. We have some things in common and some things not. Also please consider that not everyone is cut out for adoption or fostering. And others just don't want to deal with an agency telling them how to run their home in order to do one of these two things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaxMom Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 I like a lot of things you've had to say, but the above statement does not hold water in my opinion. I was raised in an abusive family. I have been impacted in many ways by my childhood - some of them good! Some of the good qualities I have now are the direct result of abuse! A child raised in slave labor may grow up to be a very hard worker. That doesn't justify the slavery. A child who's mother is an alchoholic and didn't care for the family, may grow up to be a great cook or excellent housekeeper because she stepped in and took on her mother's responsibilities, ( I have a friend like this) but obviously the method of her training is not justified by the skill she has as an adult. It DOES make sense to admire a quality someone has but not agree with what ever experience they had that instilled that quality in them. God says that all things work together for good for those who love Him. Those "all things" that work together for good are sometimes bad things - sin. They are still sin and should be called as such, even if, through God's grace, they produce good for one of His own. Just to be clear, I am in no way saying the Dugger's are abusive. I don't agree with having a baby and then giving it to your daughter to raise, but I am not calling it abuse. Just making a point. I understand where you're coming from... In my view, though, the Duggar children are being lovingly raised to fulfill their roles as men and women in the tradition their family embraces, part of which is definite gender roles and making a home in those roles. When they were building the house, the boys were all there, working on it, even the littlest ones, to the best of their abilities. All of the kids have younger "buddies" that they look out for. Parenting is about preparing your children to leave your home and create one for themselves. In my home, that means that the children, regardless of gender, learn how to cook and clean, handle the finances, and pursue knowledge. I want them to have the tools to choose whatever role they feel compelled to as adults. So, I have a less traditional approach than the Duggars. That doesn't make either of us wrong, though, nor should it be cause to wonder about abuse. It simply means our long-range vision for our children is different. Now, I don't think I could live with a man with high-maintenance hair... :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 (edited) Please educate me on Gothardites. I've never heard of that. And it is true that not all can afford to adopt. But, have you seen their house? I think they can. :) I don't understand why my comment is getting so much attention. I simply said how I feel. I don't recall saying it's how the Duggars feel. I am entitled to my opinion. I have no intention of moving in with them and start dictating how they live. I've only been here a day and I'm beginning to wonder if this is the kind of response I will get every time I don't agree with the general populace. LOL! yep! We love to "debate". Sometimes you will get used to it. Other times you will... My words were argued against as well. And what I actually said was ignored for the most part in favor of what was inferred Edited January 29, 2009 by Lovedtodeath Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 (edited) Please educate me on Gothardites. I've never heard of that. And it is true that not all can afford to adopt. But, have you seen their house? I think they can. :) I don't understand why my comment is getting so much attention. I simply said how I feel. I don't recall saying it's how the Duggars feel. I am entitled to my opinion. I have no intention of moving in with them and start dictating how they live. I've only been here a day and I'm beginning to wonder if this is the kind of response I will get every time I don't agree with the general populace. I wasn't getting on you, honest! Regardless of if I agree with you or not, I was pointing out this one peculiarity of Gothardism. And I didn't say, "can't afford", but "not cut out for". This is true. There are those that truly do well with their own children, but are not cut out for or comfortable adopting (or perhaps not with the way it is handled in today's society). And if someone holds to Gothard's view of adopted/orphan/foster children, then I would NOT want them adopting those children. Do you know what kind of mental and emotional abuse that would lead to? As far as your feelings on the subject, we've fallen under the same criticism, but minus the Duggar "money". From http://www.pfo.org/evol-fad.htm Gothard emphasizes sins visited “upon the children unto the third and fourth generation” and neither emphasizes nor explains the pregnant phrase, “of them that hate me.” It is also regrettable that he does not properly consider verse 6 “But showing love to thousands who love me and keep my commandments.” His view is novel and as far as I know cannot be found in any major commentary. Here Gothard parts company with good men. A quick glance at his materials on adopted children shows an extension of this error.10 Here he teaches that the new parents of an adopted child must research the sins of the “biological parents,” confessing them and casting the consequences off the child. He says: “Causes of Conflicts — Adopted children are affected by the sins of their natural parents, and these sins are usually very severe.” “Steps to Resolve Conflicts — If the child is too young to understand, pray for the child. Confess your sins and acknowledge the sins of the natural parents. Ask God to rebuke Satan and free the child from any unbelief or rebellion from the lives of the parents. Pray in the name and through the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ.” Then he goes on to say that if the adopted child is old enough, “Explain that just as physical weaknesses are passed down through parents, so are spiritual weaknesses such as pride, lust and rejection (see Exodus 20:5).” He then tips his hat to Exodus 20:6 and Ezekiel 18:20. But if these verses apply, what need is there of the “Step to Resolve the Conflict” in the first place? No such exorcistic ritual is ever hinted at anywhere in the Bible. Edited January 29, 2009 by mommaduck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 I just watched the wedding episode. The vows creeped me out. I literally had chills and goosebumps, and not the good kind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Yikes Joanne, what were they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie in CA Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Now, I don't think I could live with a man with high-maintenance hair... :D :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrid Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 I just watched the wedding episode. The vows creeped me out. I literally had chills and goosebumps, and not the good kind. Me too, Joanne. I didn't want to bring it up but now that you have, I have to wholeheartedly agree. I don't know what I was expecting, because I know that they're conservative Christians (though I don't know anything about what particular "brand" they are) but I was pretty taken aback. Shudder. astrid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Okay, someone share the vows please! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janna Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Are these shows available to watch online (for free)? We only have basic cable for reception purposes, so I've never seen this show (or the John and Kate Plus 8 or whatever it's called). Is it just called "The Duggers"? And how is the name pronounced? DUGers or DOOgers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaik76 Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Are these shows available to watch online (for free)? We only have basic cable for reception purposes, so I've never seen this show (or the John and Kate Plus 8 or whatever it's called). Is it just called "The Duggers"? And how is the name pronounced? DUGers or DOOgers? DUGers. I haven't found them online yet...that doesn't mean they're not there though. I do have cable...I just keep missing the show! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elizam Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 I've watched it a number of times to give it a chance. And everytime I come away with the same feeling. The whole family bothers me. Basically the whole show creeps me out. Ditto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StaceyinLA Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 they do have a website. Just search Duggars and it should come up. And the vows had the standard stuff, plus the vow for him to be under the headship of Christ and be her protector, and for her to be under his headship, be submissive to him and serve as his helpmeet, and they vowed to leave the family planning to the Lord to provide children as He sees fit. It was basically "extreme" vows - :lol: But seriously, I think if that is what they believe and what they feel is honoring to the Lord based on their beliefs, then those are the vows they should say. I think the issue here is mostly due to society's rebelliousness at the MENTION of the word submissive. The Bible does give direct instruction in regards to the setup of the marriage relationship, and theirs does, truly, give honor to the Lord. It's just not what most people necessarily believe or want to hear (or practice). And, lest anyone start with the flames upon me, I am certainly at the top of the list of those who truly believe they should be submissive to their husbands, but totally rebel at the very thought most of the time. :tongue_smilie: Alas, it is not something I am proud of, but it's the truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audrey Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 ... and they vowed to leave the family planning to the Lord to provide children as He sees fit... Well, there ya go... the spin off series is set already. :laugh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remudamom Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Wow. God adopted me, I sure am glad he isn't a Gothardite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaxMom Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Wow. God adopted me, I sure am glad he isn't a Gothardite. :lol: :hurray: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Wow. God adopted me, I sure am glad he isn't a Gothardite. :iagree::D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRAAB Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 They're Gothardites. You'd have to understand Gothard's view of "undesirable" ophans and the "generational sins" they "inherit" from their bio-family. If you dare adopt a child you have to pray heavily over them and be harsher with them to break that bondage they are under... You're serious, aren't you? Shows what a vacuum I live in; I didn't think anyone seriously believed that anymore. Leaves me sort of speechless... Janet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaNY Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 I also didn't like the big show of praying in the restaurant...I pray silently before my meals if I am in a restaurant...and I quietly remind ds8 to do so too...but I don't like that big show in public. Reminds me of 'oh thank you God that I am not like these here sinners.' :tongue_smilie: We pray before our meals at home, and we pray when we eat out, too. We hold hands, and keep our voices lowered. I never once thought along the lines of what you just said. As a matter of fact, I feel that it makes the statement that I am not ashamed of Him when I am in the privacy of my own home, and I shouldn't be ashamed of Him when I am out. I admit that I feel uncomfortable sometimes, because I *don't* want to make a show of it, but I feel that it is the right thing to do - for me. Just offering a different perspective... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 You're serious, aren't you? Shows what a vacuum I live in; I didn't think anyone seriously believed that anymore. Leaves me sort of speechless... Janet Very serious. I can't speak for the Duggars, but I can speak for what is taught by Gothard and followed by others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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