I Hate, Hate, Hate, Hate Teaching Writing!!!!!!!!!!

[Janice in NJ]

There. I feel better.

Not really.

But it's OK.

 

 

I guess.

 

 

Please resume your normal programming...

 

 

 

P.S.

Not enjoying much here today.

Did I mention that I HATE teaching writing!

 

P.P.S.

Hate isn't nearly a strong enough word.

Not NEARLY strong enough!:mad::mad::mad:

I am SO, SO VERY, VERY :mad:

[kathleen]

You know, in my years of homeschooling (16 of them), this is the single most common subject people tell me they have a difficult time teaching--even if they write well themselves. I'm not entirely sure what the answer is! I do believe that truly excellent writing is a gift, but I also truly believe that anyone can learn to write well. The writing may not sparkle and have that extra "something," but can be well-done and organized.

 

You haven't asked for any advice, so I won't offer any. :) I do understand, though!

[LisaNY]

I know you are a good writer yourself. I've read so many of your posts, and they all reflect your skill. Too bad you can't do a "Vulcan Mind-Meld" on your dc and let them "get it" that way. ;)

[Michelle in MO]

You know, in my years of homeschooling (16 of them), this is the single most common subject people tell me they have a difficult time teaching--even if they write well themselves. I'm not entirely sure what the answer is! I do believe that truly excellent writing is a gift, but I also truly believe that anyone can learn to write well. The writing may not sparkle and have that extra "something," but can be well-done and organized.

 

I agree; I don't mind writing myself (although I don't have that "flair" that some do) but really struggle with teaching writing myself. This year, I finally enrolled my two oldest girls in Cindy Marsch's tutorials, and they have helped tremendously. Both girls enjoy writing, but only for their own pleasure. They hated writing to the tune of others! Plus, it seemed to me like it took them forever to get something done. It helped having someone else give them a deadline. It also helped having an expert review their writing. I always found that teaching writing caused more insecurity in me than anything else. To witness that, all you'd have to do is see the volumes of writing curricula lining my shelves!

 

You might consider a tutorial. There are several good ones out there----Write@Home, Cindy Marsch (at Writing Assessment Services), Julie Bogart of Bravewriter, etc. This might relieve some of the pressure off of you.

 

HTH!

[Blue Hen]

I hate it too. I am anxiously awaiting word on how your oldest is doing in the PA HS'ers writing course. Next year my oldest will be in a writing course and a book discussion course. Did I tell you that I hate that one too?

 

Why oh why can't I just teach math. Math I know how to teach, math is easy to teach, but these others. Give me math, and cis, and science any day, any student over writing and book discussions,.....

 

Wish you were closer, we could go out for a coffee.

[mama25angels]

Hugs Janice, I hate teaching writing and most everything else these days, the only thing I actually enjoy teaching is history.

[Barb_]

I agree. Math is so much easier because there is a right answer and a whole lot of not-right answers. Writing is so mushy. And it's never done! No matter how good it is, it can always be better, right? It's so hard to leave good-enough alone.

 

Barb

[Janice in NJ]

You guys are great.

 

Today's a new day, eh?

but i still suspect that i still hate teaching writing.... the only reason that i'm in a good mood is because no one has done any writing yet today...;)

 

But that shouldn't diminish the sincerity of my thanks to you who responded with kind words.

 

THANKS! A Deep and heartfelt THANK YOU to you all!

 

Peace,

Janice

 

Enjoying my little people today

Enjoying my journey

[Lynnatbeach]

Well....you are certainly not alone!

My problem was solved with Write@home, an online writing program. My child was given a personal writing coach, who gives all the instructions and correction suggestions in such a positive way, my dd feels like a confdent writer!:)You have full year or 1 semester options-so there is still time to sign up. This program was a relationship saver for us.

Good Luck!

beach mom

[kpacademy]

Michelle,

 

Would you please explain which of the tutorials at Writing Assessment that your daughters completed? I went to their website after you posted to a previous thread where I asked about online writing classes, but I could not figure out exactly which class you might have done.

[Michelle in MO]

We did the Beginning Progymnasmata Tutorial with Cindy Marsch, which covers Narrative, Fable, and Proverb---that was over the summer (4 weeks). Then in September/October we did a good portion of the Intermediate tutorial, which covers Description, Anecdote, and Refutation/Confirmation (which covers some research). We had to do two sessions of this because we didn't quite finish the Intermediate level (which I think Cindy mentions somewhere on her website that this is not unusual). My husband also had some health issues in the fall, so some schoolwork in general was left behind.

 

We signed up for a second session of the Intermediate level, and they finished that level a week or so ago, so this week's assignment is from the Advanced tutorial---specifically they're doing Encomium (Praise) and Invective (Blame). This is the last week of our tutorial session with her, and they're working on the Blame piece right now. She says under the Advanced tutorial that it takes students usually three sessions to cover all the material in the Advanced tutorial. The Advanced covers these topics: Common Topic, Encomium/Invective, Comparison, Speech in Character, Description, Thesis, For and Against Law. These are all the Greek writing exercises, but I think she has a very good way of showing how these are still applicable to modern-day writing.

 

I also had my oldest do a Bravewriter SAT/ACT Timed Essay writing class at the beginning of January. It was also very good, although my dd is very private and lacks confidence about her work, and the Bravewriter format for this class was a public forum where the students posted their work on the Bravewriter website. Had I thought about it further, I probably would have contacted Julie Bogart and asked if we could do a private tutorial. After I had already registered my oldest for this class, I noticed that Cindy Marsch is now doing the same thing---timed essay writing. Both instructors are very good; they have a different approach, but I would say I liked them both.

 

In our case, I think the tutorials with Cindy Marsch work out better for my oldest because of her nature and disposition. Cindy is very precise in her grammar, yet not overbearing; she also really helps the kids learn to think logically through their statements in their papers.

 

I think if someone is "stumped" teaching writing at home, that a writing tutorial is a very good idea. My dd's didn't really understand what a "deadline" was and the writing tended to drag on and on and on. They're both doing better in that regard, although my oldest is still slower. She likes to think for a long period of time before writing, which is probably one reason why she struggled with the SAT/ACT timed essay class. I'm hoping that will improve over time! Another reason why I like the idea of a tutorial for older kids, at least, is that in those high school years you're getting a second opinion from an expert, which may help with grades, etc., on a transcript. I find that it's relatively easy to grade a math or a chemistry test, but grading my own children's writing always bothered me---I never knew if I was being too hard on them or letting them slack off!

 

HTH!

[Jackie in AR]

We did the Beginning Progymnasmata Tutorial with Cindy Marsch, which covers Narrative, Fable, and Proverb---that was over the summer (4 weeks).

 

Michelle,

 

Had your dc worked with the progymnasmata prior to the Beginning Tutorial? I have two sons (both 13) who have worked with Fable and Narrative through Classical Writing. They've just barely begun Proverb work.

 

I am not confident that I know exactly how they are doing in their writing, kwim? I've been looking over Cindy Marsch's site the past few days and thinking that the Beginning Tutorial would be good for them for this summer to make sure they are where they should be with these first three exercises.

 

I guess I'm looking for reassurance that the Beginning Tutorial would be a good fit for them. The more I type, the more I realize I'm answering my own question :D, but I would like to hear from someone whose dc have actually taken the course.

 

Thank you!

[Michelle in MO]

Michelle,

 

Had your dc worked with the progymnasmata prior to the Beginning Tutorial? I have two sons (both 13) who have worked with Fable and Narrative through Classical Writing. They've just barely begun Proverb work.

 

I am not confident that I know exactly how they are doing in their writing, kwim? I've been looking over Cindy Marsch's site the past few days and thinking that the Beginning Tutorial would be good for them for this summer to make sure they are where they should be with these first three exercises.

 

I guess I'm looking for reassurance that the Beginning Tutorial would be a good fit for them. The more I type, the more I realize I'm answering my own question :D, but I would like to hear from someone whose dc have actually taken the course.

 

Thank you!

 

 

I have great respect for Lene Mahler Jacqua and Tracy Gustilo and Kathy Vance. But, with my older two (my 15 and 13 year olds) I began to be concerned that they would be able to cover all of the levels of CW before graduating from high school. So, I contacted Cindy Marsch about her Progymnasmata tutorials. She does teach the same material (meaning Narrative, Proverb, and I forget the third!) but in her own format. It does go more quickly than CW. Classical Writing essentially has an entire book that covers each topic, so it moves more slowly. Cindy's Beginning tutorial lasts four weeks, so the material is covered more rapidly.

 

Since my older two had already done CW-Aesop and CW-Homer and part of CW-Diogenes, I didn't have any trouble with them being able to do the Beginning Progymnasmata tutorial with Cindy Marsch. Now, with my two girls, I have found that they are very "pokey" writers (which really bugs me!), so I've learned that when they are doing a tutorial with Cindy Marsch, I need to schedule in a couple of hours of writing per day. Other families and other kids may not need to schedule in as much time!

 

They also did well with the Intermediate level and are doing just the Praise/Blame portion of the Advanced, because they finished the Intermediate level about a week ago. I contacted Cindy during their first session with the Intermediate level (back in Sep./Oct.) and realized that my middle daughter, the 13-year-old, might have trouble moving on to the Advanced level at her age. Cindy agreed; she wrote back that she's found that kids usually need to be about 15 (and fairly mature) in order to handle the material in the Advanced tutorial. However, since we finished the Intermediate level, I think Cindy had them get started on one of the easier assignments from the Advanced level.

 

Does this make sense? I hope I haven't confused things here. But, I would say that if your boys have worked through some of the beginning levels of CW, like Aesop and Homer, they wouldn't have any trouble with the Beginning level of Cindy's version of the progymnasmata.

 

If you have any further questions, please feel free to ask!

[Jackie in AR]

I have great respect for Lene Mahler Jacqua and Tracy Gustilo and Kathy Vance.

 

Oh, absolutely! I think those ladies have done a terrific job with the CW series. It's me I'm worried about. :D I think my dss are doing OK with their progymnasmata work, but writing is not one of my strengths. I had actually asked a few months ago over on the CW forums whether anyone was providing any type of critiquing service, so I was thrilled when I found out about Cindy Marsch's tutorials.

 

Since my older two had already done CW-Aesop and CW-Homer and part of CW-Diogenes, I didn't have any trouble with them being able to do the Beginning Progymnasmata tutorial with Cindy Marsch. Now, with my two girls, I have found that they are very "pokey" writers (which really bugs me!), so I've learned that when they are doing a tutorial with Cindy Marsch, I need to schedule in a couple of hours of writing per day. Other families and other kids may not need to schedule in as much time!

 

I'm glad you mentioned this; it is something I was curious about. I'm sure we'll need to schedule in that much, too. I really want to focus solely on writing while they're doing the Tutorial. I'm planning for them to do it in the summer so that shouldn't be too difficult.

 

They also did well with the Intermediate level and are doing just the Praise/Blame portion of the Advanced, because they finished the Intermediate level about a week ago. I contacted Cindy during their first session with the Intermediate level (back in Sep./Oct.) and realized that my middle daughter, the 13-year-old, might have trouble moving on to the Advanced level at her age. Cindy agreed; she wrote back that she's found that kids usually need to be about 15 (and fairly mature) in order to handle the material in the Advanced tutorial. However, since we finished the Intermediate level, I think Cindy had them get started on one of the easier assignments from the Advanced level.

 

Does this make sense? I hope I haven't confused things here. But, I would say that if your boys have worked through some of the beginning levels of CW, like Aesop and Homer, they wouldn't have any trouble with the Beginning level of Cindy's version of the progymnasmata.

 

If you have any further questions, please feel free to ask!

 

Since we've got time between now and the end of high school to get through the CW series, I'm envisioning we'll do each level of CW and then use Cindy Marsch as a kind of review/assessment. That will make this writing-phobic mom feel better. :D

 

Thanks so much, Michelle, for your time and thoughts! I'm sure I'll have more questions as we progress. :)

[Michelle in MO]

entirely echo my own! I don't think writing, or teaching writing, is my forte, and I really wanted to bring in an expert opinion!

 

I handled it the same way: we did the Beginning level of the Progymnasmata series over the summer (I can't remember if it was June/July or July/Aug., but it lasted for four weeks), and I'm so glad we did. That way they could focus on writing and not be distracted by too many other things.

 

Anyway, your thoughts are the same as mine! I just began to feel like we needed to boost the writing skills with our girls and I didn't feel enough confidence in my own abilities to keep trying to teach writing.

 

God bless, and again, feel free to ask again if you have any more questions!

[kpacademy]

and others who have responded to this post. We are a science and math minded family. When people praise my son because he is a couple of grades ahead of his ps friends in math, I always try to redirect with this statement: "Maybe so, but he still has to be reminded to capitalize the first word in a sentence and all proper nouns!"

 

Also, thanks to the original poster for being willing to say what I think all of the time!! I really do not like to teach writing either! Give me a math text and a bunsen burner any day!

[jfallon]

Try this thread...http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?p=157290

[Mommyfaithe]

and I'll teach writing and you teach math

:D

~~Faithe ( who HATES HATES HATES HATES teaching math)

[Kelli in TN]

I agree; I don't mind writing myself (although I don't have that "flair" that some do) !

 

 

You made me laugh with this, not because I am laughing at you but because of something my college daughter told me this weekend.

 

My girl is a natural writer. She is truly, truly gifted with words. Her English teachers in high school were always submitting her writing to contests and such. If one of her teachers had been Paula Abdul she would have exclaimed

"You are a star. You are a rock star. You connected. You are glorious." And so on and so forth.

 

Anyway, fast forward to college where the prof doesn't know that Bekah is a star. To her Bekah is just another freshman who needs to learn to write a research paper the way the prof likes and no other way!! It has been a long, hard year for my daughter. But she is finally learning to write by the formula, even though she is sure it is.choking.the.life.out.of.her.soul.

 

So, this weekend she said "Doctor ______ finally praised my paper in front of the class. But I know that I have lost my flair."

 

I assured her that when she took a creative writing course I was sure her flair would return to her!

[Plucky]

Yes. This is the one area (so far) that I pay good money to outsource.

[Beth in SW WA]

Yes. This is the one area (so far) that I pay good money to outsource.

 

Me, too.

[Nan in Mass]

ME TOO! (caps ok because I AM shouting)

[schmittgirlz]

Thanks for starting this thread! It is nice to hear from others who willingly offer support and suggestions as well as those that are facing challenges. FWIW, I have found teaching writing quite challenging and the daily grind has helped start some sort of foundation. I have found critiquing quite difficult because I often find myself frustrated and wanting to rewrite the writing while the girls can be extremely sensitive when it comes to editing. I have found following a rubric has helped both sides find some sense of balance.

 

Stick with it, you can do it!

 

Clare

[brendafromtenn]

Oh, bless your sweet heart!(That is how we address sadness or anxiety in the south....:)Said with southern drawl.....And if I could take you out for tea or coffee I would.....)

 

After about 8 years of homeschooling, here is my take on writing. It is vastly different from all the other subjects in that you do not "see" improvement in leaps and bounds.

 

It is not like Math where you look upon a math paper and say, "Ah-Ha, She gets it!"

 

Advancement in writing takes place in "little steps at a time". You have to be watching VERY closely for it.

 

And with this subject, more than any other, the only way the child gets better, is to practice, practice, practice......Week after week......;)

 

And I think for a homeschool mom, that is the hardest thing to do......To keep at something, where you might not be seeing any progress. Where you are not seeing any benefit to your work. Where the advancement is not so clear cut as in math. :D

 

BUT TAKE HEART! :) Advancement IS being made. Improvements ARE there. But just look for them with a magnifying glass.......Ask yourself, "What improvement has my child made this year in writing?" It may be as simple as finally getting "there and their" correct. OR it may be more profound such as finally being able to support her thesis with clear cut facts.

 

And by the way, in most boys, this process of writing, takes place much slower than in girls. But they CAN and DO get this........

 

Just remember to persevere and carry on.....And take those little steps week by week.......

 

Going to get my second cup of coffee,

 

Blessings to you!

 

Brenda

[Janice in NJ]

Someone added a reply to this post and resurrected it from my past. (Funny thing about the way this board works, eh?)

My original post (rant!) was over two months ago. (2/21)

 

It's kind of eerie actually. I am actually currently on the MOUNTAIN-TOP with this kid with writing. Everything is going amazingly WELL right now!!!!!

 

So it's kind of weird to re-read my own post AND to read all of your generous, kind, loving comments of encouragement. You are RIGHT!!!!! Things DO get better. They are. Right now!

 

YOU ALL ARE AWESOME....... :grouphug:

.....and chin-up to all of you who are in my world of two months ago when I posted this original rant! Take the kind words of hope and advice of these great gals to heart. Keep plodding on... slowly but steadily.... there IS light on up ahead - cause we're hanging out in it around here. It's so warm and cozy....

... at least for now!

 

PEACE!

Janice in NJ

 

Enjoy your little people

Enjoy your journey