Foerster's alg II users-What chapter are you currently studying?

[SusanAR]

We are not progressing as quickly as I hoped (currently in chapter 7). Wondering how far aff course we are:001_smile:

Susan

[MicheleinMN]

Dd's in chapter 6, but we only intend to do through chapter 12, and then switch to the Pre-Calculus book in the fall, so she's not too far off target.

 

HTH

[Sharon in MD]

We are not progressing as quickly as I hoped (currently in chapter 7). Wondering how far aff course we are:001_smile:

Susan

 

If you intend to do the whole book, did you realize it is usually consider a 1.5 year course? I would encourage you to just do the AL II part and then get his newer book that Michele mentioned for the pre-calc/trig. That is what Foerster recommends himself as he feels that the Trig part of the older text really needs updating for modern graphing calculator support.

 

So....feel good...you aren't behind afterall!:D

[Michelle in AL]

We're on 6.7 and feeling the pinch of time too. For some reason I thought in the beginning we only needed to go through CH 8 to complete algebra 2, then I found out it was 12 :001_huh:

[SusanAR]

We're on 6.7 and feeling the pinch of time too. For some reason I thought in the beginning we only needed to go through CH 8 to complete algebra 2, then I found out it was 12 :001_huh:

 

Well, I thought it was through chapter 11, not 12, and I still feel behind. If I have o go through 12 this year, I think I'll cry!

 

Sharon, which is it???

Susan

[Laura K (NC)]

We spent about a month in chapter 6 on logarithms. I was working on chapter 6 myself mid-December, so it was probably longer than a month. It sounds like we're ahead, but that might be because we started the first of August.

 

My friend's son used Thinkwell pre-calculus last year. This year he's doing calculus at a public school and has a 100 average. So I look at Thinkwell's text. It is EXACTLY THE SAME MATERIAL as Foerster Alg. and Trig. But it is explained better. And has a graphing calculator tutorial. My son will use either Thinkwell or Chalkdust for pre-calc. (I haven't yet seen Chalkdust, but I will) next year, and it will all be review.

 

I am SO regretting this whole year with Foerster. Foerster 1 was such a great book, but Foerster Alg. & Trig is such a big fat loser. (LOL, I'm not holding back my feelings on this one). I feel like I failed my son this year by making him go through this book. It assumes the kids know so much and gives such crappy explanations. I will absolutely not use this with my younger two sons.

 

Chapter 7 doesn't look too bad. I can't decide after this chapter to scrap the book altogether and just head into pre-calculus, or what.

 

Algebra II shouldn't be this hard. It really shouldn't. My son is actually pretty good at math, and I'm worried that he hates it because he has a crappy textbook and a teacher who is hardly able to overcome said textbook.

[Matryoshka]

You guys are freaking me out. :blink:

 

Alg II is a few years off yet for me, but I had been thinking I'd do the Foersters with the MWB CD-ROMs when we got there - are any of you using them, and if so, do they help, or is it still so awful??

[Laura K (NC)]

Maybe it would have gone better with the MWB helps, though.

[Michelle in AL]

I watched upteen videos on logarithems on Hotmath this weekend, trying to teach myself how to teach this. It did help.

[Michelle in AL]

Hey Laura, maybe you should use that paddle in your avatar to bop the textbook writers. Just kidding, kind of.

[Sharon in MD]

Long post, but I'm trying to answer everything in one posting.....just skim at will.;)

 

1. As far as completing Al II with Foerster's Al II with Trig text, according to my email correspondence with the author a few years back, you should go through Chapter 12. This from the author:

 

"Timewise, the first 12 chapters of Algebra/Trig can be done in about 2 semesters in a normal classroom setting."

 

I know you may feel panicky if you are not in chapter 7 at this point, but you CAN do this. Yes, it is hard for your student, but I would urge all of you not to panic and give up at this point. It's a really good course. So what if you have to extend math into the first month of the summer to finish well. Isn't that what this is really all about? High school math is hard...advanced math should be challenging....don't give up, the prize is with in your grasp.

 

2. As for ThinkWell....I have some personal experience here as well. We used both Foerster and Thinkwell during Al II, testing the waters. We used Thinkwell's College Algebra by the way. I will stand up on my soapbox and tell you that Foerster is a vastly superior course (please feel free to throw tomatoes if you must). Thinkwell is great in terms of the Ed Burger lessons. But it is pretty awful in terms of the exercises and testing material. Of course, my experience is now two years dated, so maybe it's better now. But, when we used it, the exercises were very basic and repetitive. The tests were difficult to complete because of extremely specific syntax requirements for entering your answers. And there were numerous errors in both. We had good success in getting THinkwell to correct and give credit, but it was still a pain in the tookas.

 

As for using Thinkwell lectures with the Foerster text. I know it probably can be done, but I gave up because I couldn't sequence them to my satisfaction. It always seemed like we were getting references to something that was out of sync.

 

3. Please look at Hotmath.com for the Ed Burger lectures that are used by Thinkwell. If you want the lectures for support and reinforcement, go there. It is WAY cheaper than THinkwell. Plus, you really don't need their course exercises or tests in my opinion.

 

4. Thinkwell's Pre-Calculus is a combination of selected lectures from the College Algebra course and the Trig course. So...if you happen to own either of those, be careful about what you buy or you will duplicate lectures.

 

5. Maybe this should really be #1. I really really wish I had found Chalkdust before this year. Last year was really hard for me, especially the second semester. We are using it for Calculus and I cannot begin to tell you how much this has helped me. IF there had been DVD's to support the Foerster texts when I was using them, I would DEFINITELY have gotten them. I believe that is the MWBs stuff. But, alas it was not available yet. We chugged through Foerster's Al II and then his pre-calc with trig. It was hard work because I had to learn it, and the graphing calculator stuff, along with my son. AND believe me I felt like I was failing as a supporter (he is visual, I'm kinesthetic; He is light-speed, I'm molasses speed). But, the good news is, it has been a seamless transition to Dana Mosely and Chalkdust Calculus this year. So, I don't think it really matters if you use Foerster for Al II and Pre-Calc, then jump ship to a video and tutor supported course. I don't think it matters if you jump ship earlier, either. I knew I was at the end of me at the pre-calc stage...Your mileage may vary. What matters is the quality of the course you do complete.

 

6. Remember, it is not about how fast you finish the race. It is about finishing well. Hang in there, don't give up. It will be worth it to accomplish what you have set out to do.:grouphug:

[Laura K (NC)]

Thanks for the info about Thinkwell. My friend's son's experience with Thinkwell wasn't perfect, and they complained about some of the stuff you are warning about. I was just amazed that my son was doing so much work this year that would be repeated next year. I was suspecting that would be the case, but it was kind of a blow to see how fast we seem to have to move this year, and I am fearing that it's more work than it should have been. I have my friend's text and lectures and I'm going to play around with the format for a while. I really, really want to look at Chalkdust before I make any decisions. And I definitely want to do SOMEthing different with my next two kids.

 

I'm just frustrated, lol. Don't mind me. I needed a vent, and it's nice to vent to other folks familiar with the book, because I don't know anyone IRL who is dealing with this text.

[Sharon in MD]

Everyone in my high school/homeschool circle have used Saxon. I just couldn't stand it :tongue_smilie: when we started out, so I've always been the maverick.

 

As for the Calculus that your son's friend is doing, I can't really understand why it would be the same as what you are working on with the Al II trig course. I did use Thinkwell a good bit during that year though, so I may be getting confused about which text we were in for which topic, kwim? However, I do know that having worked through the whole Forester Precalculus with Trig last year, that what we are doing this year with Chalkdust is not at all what we did last year. So, it is hard for me to imagine that the material in the AL II/trig book, which is followed by the Precalcus text, would be what the ps kid is doing in his calculus class.... Seems a bit odd, don't you think?

 

My ds really likes the lectures from Chalkdust and only uses the material in the text chapters for reference. We do use the exercises in the text, but he doesn't sit down and read the chapters as well as watch the vids.

 

The only negative to Chalkdust for us has been deciding which problems to assign. I got a copy of a couple AP schedules and use them to get me started on picking the problems. Then I add more word problems to what they have. For tests I use the material in the Chapter reviews, just pick out problems so that each section gets coverage.

 

HTH and put that bat away! :D

[Michelle in AL]

Well, I know my struggle with algebra 2 isn't due to Foersters. In fact, I've ordered 2 other algebra 2 programs (BJU and Discovering Advanced Algebra by Key press) recently trying to find something with better explanations. Foerster has far better explanations than these. I couldn't even begin to use the other 2.

[SusanAR]

Overall, I really like Foerster's. I had no problem with his algebra I course or with Jacob's geometry. I read over the lessons on the weekend, and away we went. Not so this year! The first several chapters were OK, but now I have to study-a lot:lol:

We use the Math Without Borders which, I think, is a great help. I emailed the author about pre-cal, but he will not have it completed before next year. I asked at what point we could switch to the pre-cal book, and he replied-

 

"If I were you, I'd do the whole Alg II and then the Pre Calculus. The material

at the pre calculus level is ultimately more important, even, than Calculus

itself, in my opinion. If there's some overlap, review would not hurt."

 

I think my big issue is I feel that my ds is an algebra-2-"jack of all trades-master of none'. Foerster goes much deeper than most. Hopefully, by the time we finish pre-cal, everything will have jelled and all will be ok.

I know that I can't use his pre-cal book without help, so I guess we will switch to CD though I had hoped to use Foerster throughout.

 

Susan

[Michelle in AL]

Susan, another option is Scholars Online & Veritas Press may have a class online next yr using Foerster's Precal. They may be slightly more than CD, but your child gets a class and teacher every week.

 

My dh loved precal because he thought it was great to see how all lines can be defined by numbers. Ha also said it was way easier than algebra 2. Scholars Online uses Geomters sketchpad along with it, which may bring the beauty of math into the class. Of course, all these classes, texts and software cost money :tongue_smilie:

[Laura K (NC)]

My son's friend is doing calculus this year. It's not that the calculus is the same as the algebra 2, but that he is doing really, really well in a public school calculus class after doing Thinkwell pre-calculus. It was Thinkwell pre-calculus that was the same scope as the Foerster book. He moved to Thinkwell after doing Saxon, though... maybe there's something to that. I was thinking about looking at the Saxon books to see what their scope and sequence was. I don't want to use Saxon. I just am really interested in seeing what the normal scope and sequence of an algebra 2 program is. It's not that I mind a rigorous program; I think it's great to push a child a little harder to encourage true understanding. But if a program is TOO rigorous for no real reason, and it's so dense that it actually inhibits understanding and the student just goes through in a fog, then that's a problem I feel needs fixing.

 

Looking at the Chalkdust program will help. And I might have the option of putting my son in a public school class just for pre-calc, and if that's the case, I will probably take advantage of that, no matter what program they're using. I took 2 semesters of calculus in college but I struggled with it. Math is much different now than it was 18 years ago, and this is not something I have the motivation to teach myself. It takes much more effort to teach oneself than it does to have someone else teach it. This is a good realization to have, when assessing the merits of homeschooling. My son's friend, who did essentially teach himself alg, alg 2, geometry, and pre-calc, naturally did better in a class where someone else took on the burden of teaching. I think this is why homeschoolers are successful in college. Once they can get through these difficult high school years they are well-prepared for the responsibility of college.

Edited January 22, 2009 by Laura K (NC)

[SusanAR]

 

Looking at the Chalkdust program will help.

 

 

Are you referring to the pre- cal? Are you planning to order it to evaluate it, or do you have access to itelsewhere?

 

 

Does Thinkwell use a text?

 

 

I know what you mean about a fog!

 

 

Susan

[Nissi]

nt

[Nissi]

I would like my ds. to do Alg.II online using Foerster's. Is there an online course available? Thanks.

[Lisa L. in MI]

Ds is in ch 12. By the time he finishes, he will have taken approximately 1.5 academic years to complete ch 1-12. Then the next day he will begin Foerster's pre-calc. :D

 

Ch 6 and 7 were especially hard for him. Plus ch 6 is the longest chapter in the text. Let me tell you, I was ready to pitch it during ch 6. But I'm so glad we stuck with it. He really understands Foerster even though math is not his strength.

 

HTH,

Lisa

[Sharon in MD]

My son's friend is doing calculus this year. It's not that the calculus is the same as the algebra 2, but that he is doing really, really well in a public school calculus class after doing Thinkwell pre-calculus. It was Thinkwell pre-calculus that was the same scope as the Foerster book.

 

Now I understand what you were saying. Thinkwells Precalculus course is really just a combination of their College Algebra course (ie Foerster's Al II) and their Trig course. Therefore the material IS the same as what you are doing now. However, Foerster's Precalculus with Trigonometry is definitely NOT the same material as the Al II book. We were originally only going to do the Trig portion of the Precalc book and then move on to Calculus. But when I really examined those chapters in the second half of the text, the ones I thought were just a rehash of AL II, I discovered that I was way wrong. It is the depth that is significantly different as opposed to the topics. We decided to work through it, did we NEED to???? don't know, but I'm still glad we did it. My ds is having no trouble at all with Calculus and I really credit the hard work on Foerster for setting the foundations.

[Sharon in MD]

Go to http://education.ti.com/guidebooks/graphing/84p/TI84PlusGuidebook_Part2_EN.pdf and download that puppy. You are going to become painfully familiar with the index! ;):smilielol5: But it will be worth it

[Lisa L. in MI]

Got it...all 696 pages of it! :eek:

[Sharon in MD]

Not quite the same as the little book that comes with the calculator, huh? By the way, if you google ti-83 or 84 there are other working aids out there and some free demos too. I think hotmath has some as well.

[Michelle in AL]

Michelle, does Veritas Press Online offer Foerster's Alg. II ? Thanks. nt

Nissi, Yes, they do. Next yr they hopefully will continue on to Precalculus. I'm not sure if they'll use the old or the new text.

[Laura in CA]

This thread was very encouraging! We are "only" in section 7.3, and I was just wondering where other people were. I must say, the Math without Borders videos, and Ed Burger's through Hotmath (both of which I learned about on this board!), have been enormously helpful!

 

~Laura

[Joan in GE]

thanks

[langfam]

I was thinking about looking at the Saxon books to see what their scope and sequence was. I don't want to use Saxon. I just am really interested in seeing what the normal scope and sequence of an algebra 2 program is

 

 

 

When my dc did Saxon Algebra II, it was very easy. When I later compared it to the Foerster's Alg II text, I realized just how challenging Foerster's is. I don't have the confidence to teach it myself, so we opted to go with Chalkdust.

Edited January 23, 2009 by langfam
I obviously don't know how to work the quotes