Racial question [I'm hoping for safe place to ask this]

[Jumping In Puddles]

Barack Obama looks black, has a black wife and black skinned children. Yes, he is biracial but I think the pride in the African American community is because this man, even with his half white side, would not have had a chance at the presidency 50 years ago just because of his skin color. Never mind he has a white mother! This man looks like an African American, has African and white blood in him, and he is our next president.

 

People are able to look past the color of his skin. That is what this is about, not the ancestry or the fact that he has a white mother, but the fact that a man that has brown skin is about to become our president. That is just unbelievable and it is remarkable!

 

If Obama were to have the same parents, but his skin color was white and he married a white woman and his children had white skin, I imagine there would be some pride in the fact that he had an African father, but he would be seen by the color of his skin (as a white man) and it would make it easier to dismiss his black ancestry because he is white (meaning he has white skin although he would still have exactly the same parents and be exactly the same person inside!).

[mommaduck]

I didn't know that. I thought they called my two friends "white" because their skin is light(they aren't mixed). I can't remember what part of Africa they visited, though.

It might have been both for your friends; I don't know what your friends' relationships were with the populace. In my midwife's case, she was close to them and was their midwife. So that may have played a large role into it. She treated them as equals and tried to assimilate where she could/had to. It wasn't just her "visiting a strange land" kind of thing.

[lighthouseacademy]

Someone asked about Caucasian and Hispanic and distinguished that Hispanic was cultural and not racial (I think I have that right). I used to live in CA and all those stupid race forms would have Caucasian (Not Hispanic) and Hispanic as the choices. So, according to those silly forms, you can't be both Caucasian and Hispanic at the same time... tell that to my grandfather who was Hispanic to the core... but had light brown hair, lighter toned skin, and was 1/2 English and 1/2 Mexican... :lol:

[battlemaiden]

Barack Obama looks black, has a black wife and black skinned children. Yes, he is biracial but I think the pride in the African American community is because this man, even with his half white side, would not have had a chance at the presidency 50 years ago just because of his skin color. Never mind he has a white mother! This man looks like an African American, has African and white blood in him, and he is our next president.

 

People are able to look past the color of his skin. That is what this is about, not the ancestry or the fact that he has a white mother, but the fact that a man that has brown skin is about to become our president. That is just unbelievable and it is remarkable!

 

If Obama were to have the same parents, but his skin color was white and he married a white woman and his children had white skin, I imagine there would be some pride in the fact that he had an African father, but he would be seen by the color of his skin (as a white man) and it would make it easier to dismiss his black ancestry because he is white (meaning he has white skin although he would still have exactly the same parents and be exactly the same person inside!).

 

The fact stands. He is being called the first black president. And my family needed the proper definition for "black".

 

All afternoon I have tried to extrapolate the data. Would we call a person with a black father and asian mother, if they were elected to the office, the first Asian president? I'm trying to work through the semantics. And honestly I feel a little icky, because it doesn't make total sense to me.

 

And since it has been an enjoyable day in our home today studying MLK Jr., I'll just add that I hope Obama ultimately will be judged by the content of his character rather than the color of his skin at the end of his presidential term.

 

Jo

[Jumping In Puddles]

The fact stands. He is being called the first black president. And my family needed the proper definition for "black".

 

 

 

I think the fact stands that he is the first black president because he is black, his skin is black. He is also the first biracial president. He can be both. I know there is a lot of chatter on the internet about this, but officially and properly, he is the first black president.

 

The word biracial is used a lot for Obama in the news (google has loads of biracial articles on Obama) but now that the inauguration is here, the fact that he is the first black president is so important, particularly to those with black skin (biracial or otherwise!) and I think it is a little redundant to always say "this is important because he is the first African American President AND the first biracial president" Gets to be quite a mouthful! He chooses to identify with black. If he had white skin, instead of calling him the first black president (which would be a little weird if had white skin, right?) we would hear the term first biracial president much more, but I have a feeling it wouldn't provoke the same feelings in the African American community.

 

If Obama had lived in a time in the US where he would be segregated, he wouldn't be allowed to attend a white school, sit at the front of the bus, etc. That's because he's black. If a racist was going to target him walking down the street, and Obama was walking with a white man, do you think he should say to the thug that he was really white, he has a white mother so he is white? The fact remains that he is black because he has black skin. He is also biracial.

 

For me and my family, Obama identifies with black, I think we should respect that. That is what I will tell my children when they ask.

 

The dictionary defines black as:

 

3. often Black

a. Of or belonging to a racial group having brown to black skin, especially one of African origin: the Black population of South Africa.

b. Of or belonging to an American ethnic group descended from African peoples having dark skin; African-American.

 

It also defines an African American as: "black American of African ancestry"

 

I would say Obama fits these definitions.

 

Do you think people are being unfair when they don't constantly refer to Obama as biracial?

Edited January 20, 2009 by Jumping In Puddles

[Christine]

I never knew people designated ancestral nationality before I moved to the Midwest and heard my mother-in-law referring to someone as "Italian." I knew the person, and could not for the life of me figure out what made her Italian. The person in question had no accent, was born in the United States (as were her parents)...whatever. I figured it was a regional thing, even though it sounded a little racist to me to constantly classify people according to their ancestry. Still does, btw. perhaps mine is a West Coast attitude.

 

My husband is from MN, and does this (as does his family). Drives me insane! Especially when they pop out with, "He's Norwegian (or Swedish)." And "Danes" don't deal with those others. And when you discover what they are basing their races on (last names) you are completely "befuddled". (Well, that's my nice way of expressing. . ."amazement".) (And I will tell you now: if they base their information on -en being Danish and -on being Norwegian they were given wrong information along the way. . .)

 

I'm from the east. . . so it's not a west coast attitude.

 

Being "mixed" myself. . . but looking incredibly white, hmmm. I mark "other" on all those forms, just because I can't stand the thought of being categorized.

[Testimony]

I will tell you why. My heritage is I am a Jamacian. I am of Caribbean decent. My father is half black and half Chinese. He was born and raise in Jamacia. He is seen as a black man because he is dark skinned. However, he has distinct Chinese features. He has black straight hair, slanted eyes, very little hair as a moutache. He has an Asian last name. People would always get confused when they heard my last name and then they saw me.

 

When I was 11 years old, my music teacher questioned me as to how I got an Oriental last name. People do not see features they only see the color of a person's skin.

 

Just a thought and this is true. My father has such Asian features. His body is the structure of an Asian man. The only reason people say he is black is because of his outward appearance. Let's say he had died and was buried in an unknown tomb. If scientists dug him up and tried to do an anthropological analysis of him, they would say this is an Asian man. However, unless they saw what he looked like, they really do not know. Is my dad biracial or is he black? Society says that he is black.

 

My children have a black mom and a white dad. Society says that they are black.

 

Blessings,

Karen

http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/testimony

Edited January 20, 2009 by Testimony
mistake

[mommaduck]

Do you think people are being unfair when they don't constantly refer to Obama as biracial?

 

A very honest reply here:

 

I was irked for awhile that he only referred to himself as black as well as the media. Biracial would have been nice to use to show the inclusiveness of our nation. I was even irked at a part of his book where he came down on one college co-student for identifying with both parts of herself and how he seemed to totally reject the fact that he IS biracial.

 

HOWEVER, I then took a look at myself. My examples of "white" growing up were not good. I didn't get along with "other white kids". "White" adults I knew were messed up or mean. I was a TCK and grew up on a military installation where racism wasn't tolerated and one of the schools I went to, I was the minority (majority Asian/Pacific Islander) and loved my entire class. My dad is Native/Scots/Irish and that is what I tell people I am. I rarely mention what my mother's side is because I don't relate to it and I don't have much good to say about it. So in a sense, there is a side that I deny about myself as well. Though I technically am part THAT, I don't identify with it.

[MeanestMomInMidwest]

A very honest reply here:

 

I was irked for awhile that he only referred to himself as black as well as the media. Biracial would have been nice to use to show the inclusiveness of our nation. I was even irked at a part of his book where he came down on one college co-student for identifying with both parts of herself and how he seemed to totally reject the fact that he IS biracial.

 

HOWEVER, I then took a look at myself. My examples of "white" growing up were not good. I didn't get along with "other white kids". "White" adults I knew were messed up or mean. I was a TCK and grew up on a military installation where racism wasn't tolerated and one of the schools I went to, I was the minority (majority Asian/Pacific Islander) and loved my entire class. My dad is Native/Scots/Irish and that is what I tell people I am. I rarely mention what my mother's side is because I don't relate to it and I don't have much good to say about it. So in a sense, there is a side that I deny about myself as well. Though I technically am part THAT, I don't identify with it.

Sorry if I'm being stoopid here, but what is "TCK?"

[Melinda in VT]

Sorry if I'm being stoopid here, but what is "TCK?"

 

Third culture kid.

 

It's a term used to refer to kids who grow up as expats--they aren't fully integrated into the culture of the home country, but nor are they fully integrated into the culture of the countries in which they live.

[NCMom]

My children have a black mom and a white dad. Society says that they are black.

Blessings,

Karen

http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/testimony

 

My kids are the reverse but I 100% agree that in the current US culture, if you look black then you are considered black no matter which group or culture you identify with or are mixed with.

 

My kids consider themselves biracial but understand the distinction and the current reality.

 

As for the rest, I think that most of this thread has confused race with ethnicity. I think there are still only 3 designations considered "races". Really since we are all one species it's a moot point, but the social construct is still there. :001_smile:

 

Georgia

[MeanestMomInMidwest]

Third culture kid.

 

It's a term used to refer to kids who grow up as expats--they aren't fully integrated into the culture of the home country, but nor are they fully integrated into the culture of the countries in which they live.

Thank you.

[mommaduck]

Third culture kid.

 

It's a term used to refer to kids who grow up as expats--they aren't fully integrated into the culture of the home country, but nor are they fully integrated into the culture of the countries in which they live.

And TCK's tend to develop their own, rather outside the box, culture. We're Misfits...everywhere is home and nowhere is home, all at the same time.

[Diane]

Wow. I haven't read all the responses, but for the first time, I'm wondering what my children will be classified as. Hmmm My husband is half Puerto Rican and half German. I am Caucasian. My son is olive skin, my daughter is dark. Will he be considered Caucasian and my daughter Hispanic? I'll have to give this some thought for sure.

[mommaduck]

Wow. I haven't read all the responses, but for the first time, I'm wondering what my children will be classified as. Hmmm My husband is half Puerto Rican and half German. I am Caucasian. My son is olive skin, my daughter is dark. Will he be considered Caucasian and my daughter Hispanic? I'll have to give this some thought for sure.

:001_smile: My children range the spectrum also. One daughter looks Native. One daughter is a pale redhead Scot. Another daughter is pale but has Native features. Another looks like a dark Scot. My sons are midline...each looks like a Scot-Native mix, but with their own mix of features. (hubby is also Native-Scot-Black Irish mix)

[Kimber]

My own experience is that most black people are mixed and biracial anyway. At least that is how it was where I grew up. The identification of bi-racial really only occurs when children are raised by parents of two races. Black, for me, really is more cultural than genetic. Skin color doesn't really factor into it, because when black children are raised by parents who have borne the brunt of prejudice they want to share that burden with them.

 

There is a movie called Imitation of Color, it really shows the mindset of some people when it comes to passing for white or not. It had a huge impact on me.

 

As the mother of bi-racial children, and I call them that because their father is white, not because of their skin-color, I teach my children that they are black and white and bi-racial because I don't want them to have to deny me nor their father.

 

On those forms and applications, black is about genetics, but from my experience it is more about culture.

 

Kimberly

 

ETA I'm black and from Louisiana where blond and red-headed blacks were not uncommon. They would never call themselves bi-racial. But they could pass for white if they wanted to.

Edited January 20, 2009 by Kimber

[rfhsmom]

SolaMichella got it so right!!!! Her son calls himself ALEX!:001_smile:My husband is black, I am very fair, and our children are right in between. My autistic sister asked me when I was pregnant if our kids would be like 'coffee with cream'. What a perfect analogy--because imho cream just makes the coffee better and I think that any "mix" of race just makes beautiful children. Of course, I may be slightly prejudiced that way!LOL I was so blessed to read this discussion and see how many of you are so color-blind. :grouphug:

[mommaduck]

SolaMichella got it so right!!!! Her son calls himself ALEX!:001_smile:My husband is black, I am very fair, and our children are right in between. My autistic sister asked me when I was pregnant if our kids would be like 'coffee with cream'. What a perfect analogy--because imho cream just makes the coffee better and I think that any "mix" of race just makes beautiful children. Of course, I may be slightly prejudiced that way!LOL I was so blessed to read this discussion and see how many of you are so color-blind. :grouphug:

What makes the world beautiful to me is that we do have such a beautiful display of shades (I teach my children that we are different shades of one colour...the colour of melanin). And we are one race with many ethnicities (cultures).

[coralloyd]

I understand your confusion. I think it is how we "view" others. However, if you ask the individual you will get a myriad of answers to how they view themselves. I am half Hispanic half Caucasian. I view myself as both and mark both on forms. We used "darker skinned" also. Many beautiful shades of the same color

Edited January 20, 2009 by coralloyd

[MrsMe]

This will probably be deleted, but as for this moment of today and up to it, it was what worked.

[jamnkats]

Why is a person who is of mixed race, with one parent being black, always black?

 

If a person is half Japanese or Hawaiian or caucasion but one of the parents is black (which we could further break down into the various origins- Carribean or African, etc.) they are always referred to as "black", correct? I suppose the same applies to a person who is half Chinese/half Caucasion being referred to as Chinese.

 

I have put the answer to this question on hold with the children until I have thought it through. I guess I shouldn't be surprised to get this question after studying MLK Jr. and on the eve of the inauguration, but sheesh! I was unprepared with an answer.

 

Let's discuss!

 

Jo

 

I found this quote to be telling:

 

If you follow the government''s own ruling...1/10th blood..I''d say he meets that standard for being labeled black. Funny how it''s good enough when it keeps a person down but when it actually adds to a historic leg up then it''s problem....and I''m not saying you personally. But the question has been bounced around...''how is he black if he''s mixed?'' The government''s standard was good enough to keep the blacks in slavery, from voting, and just about anything they needed when it was convenient for segregation. The same standard now has to be good enough to give the man a historic place in presedential history. Maybe the next black president can be ''more'' black...but Obama gets to be the first black.

[Demal]

This may interest some of you with Native American ancestry: If you lived in Virginia between the years 1924 and 1979, you would have been classified as "colored."

 

The Racial Integrity Act [1924] essentially narrowed race classifications on birth and marriage certificates to two choices: “white personâ€

or “colored.†The law defined a white as one with no trace of black blood. A white person could have no more than a 1/16th trace

of Indian blood – an exception, much to [Registrar of Vital Statistics, Dr.] Plecker’s regret, legislators made to appease the descendants of Pocahontas and John

Rolfe, who were considered among Virginia’s first families.

The act forbade interracial marriage and lying about race on registration forms. Violators faced felony convictions and a year in

prison.

 

and

 

Plecker saw everything in black and white. There were no other races. There was no such thing as a Virginia Indian. The tribes,

he said, had become a “mongrel†mixture of black and American Indian blood.

Their existence greatly disturbed Plecker. He was convinced that mulatto offspring would slowly seep into the white race. “Like

rats when you’re not watching,†they “have been sneaking in their birth certificates through their own midwives, giving either Indian

or white racial classification,†Plecker wrote.

He called them “the breach in the dike.†They had to be stopped.

 

Many who came into Plecker’s cross hairs were acting with pure intentions. They registered as white or Indian because that’s how

their parents identified themselves. Plecker seemed to delight in informing them they were “colored,†citing genealogical records

dating back to the early 1800s that he said his office possessed. His tone was cold and final.

 

In one letter, Plecker informed a Pennsylvania woman that the Virginia man about to become her son-in-law had black blood.

“You have to set the thing straight now and we hope your daughter can see the seriousness of the whole matter and dismiss this

young man without any more ado,†he wrote.

 

In another missive, he rejected a Lynchburg woman’s claim that her newborn was white. The father, he told her in a letter, had

traces of “negro†blood.

“This is to inform you that this is a mulatto child and you cannot pass it off as white,†he wrote.

“You will have to do something about this matter and see that this child is not allowed to mix with white children. It cannot go to

white schools and can never marry a white person in Virginia.

“It is a horrible thing.â€

 

http://www.weyanoke.org/pdf/plecker1.pdf

http://www.weyanoke.org/pdf/plecker2.pdf

[mommaduck]

This may interest some of you with Native American ancestry: If you lived in Virginia between the years 1924 and 1979, you would have been classified as "colored."

 

The Racial Integrity Act [1924] essentially narrowed race classifications on birth and marriage certificates to two choices: “white person”

or “colored.” The law defined a white as one with no trace of black blood. A white person could have no more than a 1/16th trace

of Indian blood – an exception, much to [Registrar of Vital Statistics, Dr.] Plecker’s regret, legislators made to appease the descendants of Pocahontas and John

Rolfe, who were considered among Virginia’s first families.

The act forbade interracial marriage and lying about race on registration forms. Violators faced felony convictions and a year in

prison.

 

and

 

Plecker saw everything in black and white. There were no other races. There was no such thing as a Virginia Indian. The tribes,

he said, had become a “mongrel” mixture of black and American Indian blood.

Their existence greatly disturbed Plecker. He was convinced that mulatto offspring would slowly seep into the white race. “Like

rats when you’re not watching,” they “have been sneaking in their birth certificates through their own midwives, giving either Indian

or white racial classification,” Plecker wrote.

He called them “the breach in the dike.” They had to be stopped.

 

Many who came into Plecker’s cross hairs were acting with pure intentions. They registered as white or Indian because that’s how

their parents identified themselves. Plecker seemed to delight in informing them they were “colored,” citing genealogical records

dating back to the early 1800s that he said his office possessed. His tone was cold and final.

 

In one letter, Plecker informed a Pennsylvania woman that the Virginia man about to become her son-in-law had black blood.

“You have to set the thing straight now and we hope your daughter can see the seriousness of the whole matter and dismiss this

young man without any more ado,” he wrote.

 

In another missive, he rejected a Lynchburg woman’s claim that her newborn was white. The father, he told her in a letter, had

traces of “negro” blood.

“This is to inform you that this is a mulatto child and you cannot pass it off as white,” he wrote.

“You will have to do something about this matter and see that this child is not allowed to mix with white children. It cannot go to

white schools and can never marry a white person in Virginia.

“It is a horrible thing.”

 

http://www.weyanoke.org/pdf/plecker1.pdf

http://www.weyanoke.org/pdf/plecker2.pdf

 

Thank you for posting this. I did not know. This reads into more of how racist thinking.

[Storm Bay]

Well as the mother of children who are 1/4 Hawaian, 1/4 Korean, 1/4 Scottish and 1/4 European mix....who are mistaken as Hispanic often.....

 

I seriously just want to boycott the whole identify your race thing! It's ridiculous!

 

I agree. I once read an article, and cannot remember where, where some expert said that IF he were to designate 4 races for humans, 3 of them would be in Africa and everybody else in the world would be the 4th! We spend too much time on skin colour, and he was looking at the big picture of the entire body.

[Storm Bay]

It is. My midwife (white) used to live in Ghana. The people there called black americans "white" and when she pointed out that she was white, they told her that no, she was white on the outside, but black like them on the inside...the black people from america were "white" on the inside. So it is a matter of perspective and attitude.

 

 

This is very interesting, and so different from the perspective of many here. Yet I can tell if someone who looks "black" comes from Africa or NA by how they move, act, etc, so I can see why they'd say that. And, so far I've never been wrong in that.

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

(He's actually as French as a French-Canadian can get, lineage-wise).

 

hee hee. Can I challenge him? :-D

[Jen in PA]

My dh is Filipino/Puerto Rican (with some Navajo thrown in) on one side, Slovak on the other. I'm of totally mixed white European ancestry on one side, Eastern European Jewish on the other. But the state of Pennsylvania simplifies matters, and classifies our kids as Hispanic! They will have to choose for themselves when they are older -- for now I call them multi-racial.

[Guest smills18080]

I have always gone by the father's race or heritage. My son just asked me this today. He wanted to know why they consider him Africian - American when he is from Hawaii. I explained to him that Obama's father is from Kenya and that is why. This my not be the answer that you where looking for but, that my take on it.

 

Sue

[LibraryLover]

This is a long thread, so someone, somewhere must have said this obivous thing I am about to say.

 

Mississippi 1959- Say Obama goes to the Whites fountain and drinks, or maybe sits in the front of the bus...do the police and driver let him? Do they think, hey, maybe he's got some whilte blood (because you know, that was so ok...) and he can go right ahead.

 

Do these folks take him to be white or do they take him to be black?

[helena]

I live in a very mixed town, where 1 generation in young people are marrying and having kids. Not just black and white, but truly everyone. It makes me smile everyday that things have naturally begun to go this way. When I was a kid I had a very different experience. My mom is incredibly caucasian I mean white blond hair, blue eyes etc. and my dad is Mexican, as in Carlos Castaneda(had he been born in Mexico) , walking through the hills collecting cactus for dinner. I think they had grand ideas about mixing it up and the power of love (1972). But the truth is that it was hard for my mom, she hid her pregnancy from her dad until I was born. And because nobody thought I was her baby, my whole life what seemed like everyday people would comment on our looks. It was hard for her because I identified more with my Mexican side, I had no grandparent or elders on the white side, or any cultural experiences that we took part in. Everything was mexican, even her cooking. She eventually told me she felt disappointed by the fact that my friends were mostly brown, I dated mostly brown etc. My mom was also unprepared for the physical differences, my dad had to finally give me the low down on brown nipples, uni-brows, mustaches etc. It was also very confussing to always have white people say "Oh well that's ok you look pretty white to me". Actually I still get that... what do you say? That's because I AM!! You have this pressure to pick all the time. Or people insinuate that you have some agenda. I know that mexican is not a race, but I have heard my fair share of racist remarks thrown at my father. Back then people weren't so shy to let you know that they didn't like what they were seeing. Well not from the Mexican side, they love the ladys, so that is always all good:) Mexicans would always tell me "You are Mexican! We are are all mix, that is the nature of the country. Despite that fact that racism is alive and well there, it is true. My grandma is from what was the biggest slave port in Mexico, and my grandpa is mixed with German, and S. American as well as his N. mexican cowboy ways. On my Mexican side you can see so much diversity. It seems to me things are moving in a much better direction, people are seeing good loving families & what can you say to that? My hubby is Mexican/English & Sicilian/German. He looks mix. What's funny is that on medical records Sean and the girls have to fill in a box that takes them out of the caucasian category and into the African/Caribbean side. I think Sicilians have African history, and there is a higher risk of some illnesses such as sickle cell. On other forms we can't be white, or hispanic, I think that the forms usually have an agenda to work the numbers this way or that sometimes for good, sometimes not. We are coming to a point where these kind of fill in the box answers will be obsolete and insulting. The icing on the cake for my little family is that we are Muslim,and most Muslims we meet assume that we are from the middle east. I always said Mexican and Irish make Persian! Let's hear it for blending in everywhere! Thank you for allowing me to go on and on, I've never written about this before, it felt good.

[Sahamamama]

It is. My midwife (white) used to live in Ghana. The people there called black americans "white" and when she pointed out that she was white, they told her that no, she was white on the outside, but black like them on the inside...the black people from america were "white" on the inside. So it is a matter of perspective and attitude.

 

Now THAT has me laughing! When I was in seminary I had several African friends who taught me to cook great African food. Years later, my husband took some of this cuisine to work to share with his African coworkers. The next time I went in to see him, they started SCRATCHING my arm -- they said, "We know you are black underneath that pink paint, we know you are really African, or you couldn't cook like this!" :D :lol:

[Parrothead]

This is a long thread, so someone, somewhere must have said this obivous thing I am about to say.

 

Mississippi 1959- Say Obama goes to the Whites fountain and drinks, or maybe sits in the front of the bus...do the police and driver let him? Do they think, hey, maybe he's got some whilte blood (because you know, that was so ok...) and he can go right ahead.

 

Do these folks take him to be white or do they take him to be black?

At that time and in that situation he would have fallen under the One Drop rule. Because he had one drop of "black blood" he would have been considered black. He is too dark to have passed as white.

[mommaduck]

Now THAT has me laughing! When I was in seminary I had several African friends who taught me to cook great African food. Years later, my husband took some of this cuisine to work to share with his African coworkers. The next time I went in to see him, they started SCRATCHING my arm -- they said, "We know you are black underneath that pink paint, we know you are really African, or you couldn't cook like this!" :D :lol:

 

:lol::lol::lol: