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Why is a person who is of mixed race, with one parent being black, always black?

 

If a person is half Japanese or Hawaiian or caucasion but one of the parents is black (which we could further break down into the various origins- Carribean or African, etc.) they are always referred to as "black", correct? I suppose the same applies to a person who is half Chinese/half Caucasion being referred to as Chinese.

 

I have put the answer to this question on hold with the children until I have thought it through. I guess I shouldn't be surprised to get this question after studying MLK Jr. and on the eve of the inauguration, but sheesh! I was unprepared with an answer.

 

Let's discuss!

 

Jo

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Because, I think, it is in human nature for us to refer to things the way we "see" them. We say, look at the green blouse over there, or the pink flower. These are poor analogies, I know, but I can't really find the right words I'm looking for KWIM?

 

And FWIW, in our family, we don't say "black" person or Chinese, we use broader terms like darker colored or Asian.

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Why is a person who is of mixed race, with one parent being black, always black?

 

If a person is half Japanese or Hawaiian or caucasion but one of the parents is black (which we could further break down into the various origins- Carribean or African, etc.) they are always referred to as "black", correct? I suppose the same applies to a person who is half Chinese/half Caucasion being referred to as Chinese.

 

I have put the answer to this question on hold with the children until I have thought it through. I guess I shouldn't be surprised to get this question after studying MLK Jr. and on the eve of the inauguration, but sheesh! I was unprepared with an answer.

 

Let's discuss!

 

Jo

Are you asking about others' perception of them, or what the person most strongly identifies with?

If it is others' perception, I'm afraid the tendency is to put people into preconceived boxes based on what is visable...

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Are you asking about others' perception of them, or what the person most strongly identifies with?

If it is others' perception, I'm afraid the tendency is to put people into preconceived boxes based on what is visable...

 

And the reason people identify themselves one way or another changes over the course of time and history.

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Anecdotal evidence here, but most of the people we know who are of mixed race refer to themselves as "bi-racial." The only person I know who doesn't is a woman whose father is Puerto-Rican but who grew up in Maine in an otherwise totally Anglo culture. She feels no special connection to her father's heritage; it doesn't figure enough into her identity to matter to her.

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that he considered himself black because that was how other people saw him, and that he was treated as such. I guess that people who aren't 100% anything get to choose what to put first:001_smile:

 

yup - that is why my hubby, who is has much Irish as he is Polish, claims to be Polish-American (except on March 17th!)...and my kids, each 1/4th Polish, yet with a Polish last name, are considered Polish-American (although they are over half Irish!!!)

 

My hubby's cousin, adopted from the Philippines, considers herself Irish-Polish-American since that is how she was raised.

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Interesting. I've never seen it this way and didn't realize others did.

 

We are friends with a family in which the mother is Caucasian and the father is African American. I don't see the kids as African American or black or any particular race. They are just who they are. I guess if I was asked their race, I'd say they were mixed.

 

I'm 1/2 Portuguese and 1/2 Caucasian. I usually mark Caucasian on forms that ask for race. I think of myself as Caucasian and think that I have light skin. I'm always shocked when someone remarks on my dark skin tone as my midwife recently did when she suggested it might be harder for me to get adequate vitamin D from sun exposure because of my dark skin.

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I wonder if some of it isn't due to the complication of 'white.' In so far as why people prefer to say, simply, black, hispanic, Polish, etc. As far as I go, I tell people my husband is Scottish (he's half Scottish), because it's easier than saying, he's dark because he's Scottish, but we have no idea what race his father is. In my case, I say French, because my maiden name is French and it's easier than saying, French, German, Dutch, English, Cherokee. More often, I say I'm a Euro mutt, but even that isn't 100% true.

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that he considered himself black because that was how other people saw him, and that he was treated as such. I guess that people who aren't 100% anything get to choose what to put first:001_smile:

 

As a mixed race person, I can choose what I like, but the dominant "white" society here in the rural South is always ready and willing to put me in my place (i.e., remind me that I'm not-white).

 

I do think this is changing, though, as this country becomes more multicultural.

Edited by Demal
clarification
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I'm 1/2 Portuguese and 1/2 Caucasian. I usually mark Caucasian on forms that ask for race. I think of myself as Caucasian and think that I have light skin. I'm always shocked when someone remarks on my dark skin tone as my midwife recently did when she suggested it might be harder for me to get adequate vitamin D from sun exposure because of my dark skin.

 

I'm curious, when you say you are 1/2 Portuguese and 1/2 Caucasian, what do you mean?

 

As I understand it, Caucasian is a racial designation and Portuguese is a cultural/national designation. I would consider Portuguese who aren't of African or Asian descent to be Caucasian.

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I can see from the answers you have got so far that people are mixing race with culture.

 

In my view they are different concepts.

 

For example, some of you mentioned a Puerto Rican person. Puerto Ricans can be of any race. I have met black and white Puerto Ricans, so somebody whose father is a white Puerto Rican and whose mother is a white Anglo would not be biracial in my book, now if that person had a black Puerto Rican father and a white Anglo mother then they would be bi racial.

 

Somebody else declared themselves hispanic and white. Hispanic is not a race, but a cultural/linguistic label. I am European and Hispanic by culture and white by race. There are Hispanics that are black, there are also Hispanics that are Asian, and many who are native american. What most people in the US identify as Hispanic are in fact the descendents of European settlers and the indigenous population.

 

I would not consider someone to be bi racial either if all their ancestors are white, regardless of country of origin, so an American of Polish and Irish heritage would be all white, but you can say that he or she would be bicultural.

 

As far as biracial black/white individuals in this country, I think many consider themselves black due to the one drop rule legacy. It doesn't work this way in other countries, where these persons would be considered biracial.

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I'm curious, when you say you are 1/2 Portuguese and 1/2 Caucasian, what do you mean?

 

As I understand it, Caucasian is a racial designation and Portuguese is a cultural/national designation. I would consider Portuguese who aren't of African or Asian descent to be Caucasian.

 

I agree with you. Most Portuguese people are white.

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I never knew people designated ancestral nationality before I moved to the Midwest and heard my mother-in-law referring to someone as "Italian." I knew the person, and could not for the life of me figure out what made her Italian. The person in question had no accent, was born in the United States (as were her parents)...whatever. I figured it was a regional thing, even though it sounded a little racist to me to constantly classify people according to their ancestry. Still does, btw. perhaps mine is a West Coast attitude.

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My dh is what you have described and he has never identified himself as "black" or "African-American" - not even for minority status on scholarships or job applications.... he thinks of himself as "white" simply b/c he "can" pass but many people see some of his features as being mixed race or black heritage. Interestingly, our kids are blue eyed, blond hair- so far. We could always have a baby who looks "black" but we would love a baby for who he/she is - not dependent on the color of their skin. BTW, we also have added children through adoption.... so it is really not much of an issue for us. I understand it is an issue for others but it doesn't even hit our radar.

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I think people refer to OTHER people based on what they see. They see darker skin and refer to that other person based on that. Or, they see (or hear) a name and refer to them thusly.

 

My dh is very dark, especially in summer when his farmer's tan is in full flush. Sometimes, people mistake him for aboriginal, but he hasn't a drop of it in him. (He's actually as French as a French-Canadian can get, lineage-wise).

 

My last name is now French, and for some inexplicable reason, Audrey is a popular Quebec name for girls right now. So, people look at my name and call me French, but I haven't a drop of French blood to claim and if you heard me speak, it's painfully obvious that French isn't my first language.

 

It used to bother me, but over time you just get tired of explaining. Or, perhaps you're in company to which you'd rather not spend time explaining.

 

I think that something similar happens all the time all over the place. In the case of a celebrity like Tiger Woods, for example, lots of people refer to him as black, but he doesn't identify as that. He's explained how he sees himself many times, yet the general public will still say he's black -- maybe because that's all they can see.

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I know several "white" Hispanic mix people. They always go by white in general, but when they went back to college (2 of them anyways) they listed as Hispanic even though they do not identify with that culture because of the scholarship, and other free monies available to them because of it.

I have never met a biracial who was mixed with black that chose the white culture. I never knew them well enough to ask why though.

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Why is a person who is of mixed race, with one parent being black, always black?

 

If a person is half Japanese or Hawaiian or caucasion but one of the parents is black (which we could further break down into the various origins- Carribean or African, etc.) they are always referred to as "black", correct? I suppose the same applies to a person who is half Chinese/half Caucasion being referred to as Chinese.

 

I have put the answer to this question on hold with the children until I have thought it through. I guess I shouldn't be surprised to get this question after studying MLK Jr. and on the eve of the inauguration, but sheesh! I was unprepared with an answer.

 

Let's discuss!

 

Jo

 

 

It's because the black half is the most noticeable. Tiger Woods looks black; Thai....not hardly. It's all just a physical description. If I wanted to describe Tiger Woods to somebody who has never seen him, I wouldn't start by saying he is Asian.

 

I am half of one thing and half another as well but I am classified as the one I most physically resemble. Culturally, I am neither. :tongue_smilie:

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I have lived in an African-American community (both my neighborhood and my church) for twelve years.

 

Most of the people that I know who are bi-racial refer to themselves as "biracial." I do know of a couple who choose to identify themselves as African-American even though they are biracial, but the majority of my friends prefer the term "biracial."

 

However, other people tend to call those biracial people by whatever race they LOOK like. For example, Barack Obama is biracial but almost everyone I know, whether Caucasian or African-American, refers to him as "black." Same with Tiger Woods.

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I clicked to reply and now I'm stumped. Our children are bi-racial, we are caucasian. While filling out forms, in some cases, we are able to check the bi-racial box. Other times, we are only given the option of black or white?? What then do we choose? Our boys say that they have brown skin:).

 

I'm guessing, that because we(their parents) are white----most people will consider them white?? Some only see them as black. It's sort of a quandry for us.

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Halle Berry (whose mother is white and father is black) said her mother told her to look in the mirror. What do you see? Black? That's what people see too, and that's what they're going to call you.

 

I understand that your outward appearance is what people will go by, however that is different from what you yourself may identify as. I also think it is important to not let others impose their perspective on your self identity.

 

For example, I just asked my 12 yo dd what she considers herself and she said bi racial. She is truly bi racial, since I am white and my husband is South Asian. Now, most people would look at her and think she is either South Asian or Hispanic. I think it is healthy to be aware of what other people will think you are, but I do not think other people's views of you should overrule your self identity.

 

I am editing to add that my younger daughter could pass by white, so other people's perception of her would be different. She is too young to have an opinion of the matter, so only time will tell what she sees herself as.

 

I also wanted to say that I loathe it when you have to choose one heritage over the other in official documents. It is fine if the person chooses one heritage over the other but not if they have to do so because there is no other choice. Also, I think is nobobody's business but the person him or herself to choose what category is right for them. I would not be happy if I were told by somebody else what I have to pick.

Edited by Mabelen
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I also wanted to say that I loathe it when you have to choose one heritage over the other in official documents. It is fine if the person chooses one heritage over the other but not if they have to do so because there is no other choice. Also, I think is nobobody's business but the person him or herself to choose what category is right for them. I would not be happy if I were told by somebody else what I have to pick.

 

:iagree: I also loathe the fact that through my entire childhood that choice was made for me and not by me. Knowing what I know now about my heritage, I understand more of comments made to me by my stepfather who raised me to be "white", but I guess I just wasn't "white enough" for him. And to tell you the truth, I didn't get along with "other white kids" growing up. I consider myself a TCK. I've been a minority in one school and a majority that didn't fit with the majority in another (and now I know a bit more as to why).

 

 

btw, you can see the two parts of my heritage that I relate most to...both on my daddy's side)

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I'm curious, when you say you are 1/2 Portuguese and 1/2 Caucasian, what do you mean?

 

As I understand it, Caucasian is a racial designation and Portuguese is a cultural/national designation. I would consider Portuguese who aren't of African or Asian descent to be Caucasian.

 

When I refer to caucasian, I'm thinking of this definition with the emphasis on the italicized portions:

 

In common use, the term is sometimes restricted to Europeans and other lighter-skinned populations within these areas, and may be considered equivalent to the varying definitions of white people.[

 

My mom is 100% Portuguese. I would never consider her Caucasian as she has dark olive-toned skin, dark eyes, and black hair. However, you would also not say she is African, Asian, or Hispanic either. She is very definitely Portuguese. Seeing her, you probably wouldn't know what to call her but if you asked, she'd say she was Portuguese, not Caucasian.

 

I don't know. Perhaps I'm wrong. I don't have a decent digital photo of my mother but here's a photo of my grandmother (my mother looks more and more like her as she ages). What race would you say she is?

 

3210655535_ed04389ee7.jpg?v=0

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I understand that your outward appearance is what people will go by, however that is different from what you yourself may identify as. I also think it is important to not let others impose their perspective on your self identity.

 

....................................

I also wanted to say that I loathe it when you have to choose one heritage over the other in official documents. It is fine if the person chooses one heritage over the other but not if they have to do so because there is no other choice. Also, I think is nobobody's business but the person him or herself to choose what category is right for them. I would not be happy if I were told by somebody else what I have to pick.

 

I agree. That's why I said earlier the point is that now you get to choose, not someone else. Although that wasn't the case before(like with the "One drop" rule and in Halle Berry's childhood). It is moreso now.

Edited by Blessedfamily
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See!? I knew I should bring this question here! Thank you so much to you ladies who have first hand experience with this. I appreciate your perspective so much.

 

I think the one-drop article will be insightful. I am going to print it out for later "rocking chair reading". ;)

 

I really wish this weren't an issue at all...but I think we can all agree that the topic needs clarification.

 

I rarely have any opportunity to bring up distinctions amongst my peers, but even my younger kids use terms of description when talking to each other about their friends on the street- "you know the boy in the cul de sac? The kid who rides his scooter so fast? The dark skinned boy? What is his name again?" etc. If they know someone's name then that is the last I hear about the color of their skin.

 

But when my kids ask, "why is Barrack Obama the first black president if he is half white?" my answer will be slightly more informed because of the insight given to me by my experienced hive mind peers.

 

Thank you so much everyone.

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Anecdotal evidence here, but most of the people we know who are of mixed race refer to themselves as "bi-racial."

 

 

I was thinking after reading the responses that this is true for me too. My friends who are bi-racial say so. The more I think about it, the more I realize I'm referring to public figures who are labeled as one or the other.

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I agree with Luna.

 

I am half hispanic, half white. I tell people I am hispanic. Why? My parents are divorced and my dad, who is hispanic, raised me. That's the family I knew.

 

My kids are half hispanic, but they identify with the Caucasian side of the family (mine). Can you tell that this blue eyed, red haired little cutie is fully half South American?

 

20090107_0549.jpg

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hmm...interesting discussion. My son is half Mexican (his daddy's dad is of Spanish descent and his abuelita is of native descent) and half whatever I am (Caucasian mutt), and we live in Mexico. He looks Caucasian, and people here consider him white. I don't know what people in the US think!

Edited by jenadina
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When I'm asked for my ancestry, I say mutt. It's dominantly European (Irish, English, German), with Asian (Hun), African-American, and Native American (blackfoot) thrown in. I still check Caucasian though, since that's dominant. I was a little surprised that Obama called himself a Mutt on National TV too. :lol:

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My husband is 100% "Egyptian," whatever that is. About a year after we married, he was filling out a job application and laughingly asked me, "Honey, what box should I check for 'race?'"

 

I looked at the list:

 

Caucasian (he doesn't look exactly white)

Black (he doesn't look exactly black)

Hispanic (he does get spoken to in Spanish a lot, LOL! Yo no hablo espanol. Yo soy egypto.... Then they know... LOL.)

Asian or Pacific Islander (he's not that, but when he's tan, he could look Samoan :001_smile:)

Guamian (I am NOT kidding, this was a choice)

 

What should he choose? There was (of course) no choice for "Middle Eastern," or even Arab (which is not the same as Egyptian).

 

What, exactly, is an Egyptian? The Greeks and Romans were there, along with practically everyone else in the ancient world. The French, English, Italians (I think) were all there. The Arabs were (are) there. My husband knows blond-haired, green-eyed Egyptians, but he isn't one of them. His brother looks like a light-skinned black man, but my husband doesn't look a thing like his brother!

 

You know, when it's all said and done, my husband is just Dave.

 

Oh, and on the application, he choose "Other."

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Caucasian (he doesn't look exactly white)

Black (he doesn't look exactly black)

Hispanic (he does get spoken to in Spanish a lot, LOL! Yo no hablo espanol. Yo soy egypto.... Then they know... LOL.)

Asian or Pacific Islander (he's not that, but when he's tan, he could look Samoan :001_smile:)

Guamian (I am NOT kidding, this was a choice)

 

 

:lol: Sorry, that is hysterical!!! (and yes, I've lived there!)

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When I was on a Langston Hughes kick (I think I was 12 at the time) I read in his autobiography that he visited Africa. It was the first time in his life that he was called "white"! It seems to be a matter of perspective. :)

 

I read that too, and have friends from church who experienced the same thing. :001_smile:

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When I was on a Langston Hughes kick (I think I was 12 at the time) I read in his autobiography that he visited Africa. It was the first time in his life that he was called "white"! It seems to be a matter of perspective. :)

 

It is. My midwife (white) used to live in Ghana. The people there called black americans "white" and when she pointed out that she was white, they told her that no, she was white on the outside, but black like them on the inside...the black people from america were "white" on the inside. So it is a matter of perspective and attitude.

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It is. My midwife (white) used to live in Ghana. The people there called black americans "white" and when she pointed out that she was white, they told her that no, she was white on the outside, but black like them on the inside...the black people from america were "white" on the inside. So it is a matter of perspective and attitude.

 

I didn't know that. I thought they called my two friends "white" because their skin is light(they aren't mixed). I can't remember what part of Africa they visited, though.

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When I'm asked for my ancestry, I say mutt. It's dominantly European (Irish, English, German), with Asian (Hun), African-American, and Native American (blackfoot) thrown in. I still check Caucasian though, since that's dominant. I was a little surprised that Obama called himself a Mutt on National TV too. :lol:

 

Heh!

 

My dh is from 100% Portugese "stock" - all grandparents, his dad was born there, etc. I am truly a mutt - an Anglo-Irish-German-Cherokee and who knows what else mutt.

 

When he & I were newly married, we were sitting at a dinner one night, and my 17yo bil looked pointedly at me and remarked, "Well, when I get married, it's gonna be 100% pure blood, not some mutt."

 

:001_huh: :glare:

 

Welcome to the family, eh?

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