Questioning the formal study of Science....

[mommy25]

"Science" as an individual subject has been a struggle in my home since I began homeschooling 8 years ago. Other than nature studies and books about animals and such from the library, I have never taught science formally. To me it is such a drag and my kids have always frowned whenever we attempted the latest science curriculum. We have tried Sonlight, Apologia, A Beka, Rod and Staff, Noeo and probably a few others I can't think of right now. Anyway, I end up shelving them and eventually selling them. It just seems that after we complete everything else for the day there is not enough time or interest.

 

So with all that said, does anyone else struggle with this too? I figure if the kids need it for entrance into college or profession they want to pursue they can study the necessary materials at that time.

 

My oldest girl is Miss Suzy Homemaker. Loves to read, take care of children, clean house, dance, sew, decorate etc. so she is not natually inclined to scientific stuff.

 

I think if one of my kids showed interest in scientific matter, or seemed naturally inclined I would definitely assist them, but if the motivation has to come from me, it won't get done.

 

I wish I could find a science text like SOTW that didn't include experiments or if they did, explained what happens when you do this and why.

 

Does anyone have any ideas or opinions about this?

 

Thanks

[Mama Lynx]

Most elementary/middle school "formal science" programs leave me cold.

 

Reading a chapter and performing the activity they tell you to, to get the result you already know you're supposed to get, is not really doing an experiment, and it's not really doing science.

 

I've tried several programs, and finally came to the conclusion that I think it's pointless.

 

My kids are very interested in science. They read about science, we talk about science, we go to science museums, we watch documentaries, etc. It's easy to learn about scientific topics and information.

 

Other than that, learning to observe is important. Critical thinking is important. An understanding of the scientific method is important. And performing real experiments, as they come up - when a kid says, "I wonder what would happen if ...?" You take that moment. If it's at all something you can test, you get the materials, talk about what you think might happen, and then experiment. Change variables and experiment again. Talk about the need for a control, and how to include one in the experiment. See what happens and discuss that, see if you can figure out why it happened, do some research.

 

If it's not something you can test yourself, you and the kid do research to find out if/how others have tested the idea, and what happened.

 

My kids (so far) talk about being engineers, so in high school I'll have to do something for formal lab science, to make the colleges happy. So I will focus on making sure they have the math skills to succeed there.

 

I like the materials, attitude and approach at howtoteachscience.com

 

I am sure you will get responses from folks who have a very different attitude, and who will pick me apart. ;-) But now you have my two cents, whatever they're worth!

 

However ... I do think it is important that people have an understanding of science, and of how the world works. Just because your students are not interested in or not inclined to science, I wouldn't let the off of learning the content. Check out Hakim's "Story of Science" series. Try Teaching Company videos, for older students. Encourage learning about whatever angle of science you can foster an interest in - astronomy, flowers ... there's plenty of science involved in cooking and homemaking. How about the science of cooking, through Alton Brown's books?

[Stacy in NJ]

I have struggled to stick with a science program, as well. We've done bits and pieces of several only completing one program from beginning to end (Exploration Education). We used many supplemental programs, but formal stuff has left us cold. As dss have gotten older I'm feeling a greater sense of urgency to "do" science. This year my oldest is doing Physics via a real book and The Rainbow Physics section. I do like this combination. We real the book together, he answers the review/comprehension question aloud for me. Then completes the experiment on Friday on his own, then explains it to me.

 

Next year we'll attempt to tackle Chemistry via Ellen McHenry and the Chemistry section of The Rainbow. Is your dd interested in baking? She may find the Elements curriculum my McHenry interesting. Have a look. http://www.ellenjmchenry.com/id98.html

 

I urge you to find some simple way to do some basic science. Science is really the explanation of how our physical world functions. Having an understanding of that is important for everyone. I really do sympathize, though.

 

hth, Stacy

[Kelli in TN]

Until high school we don't fret about science too much. I grab books from the library, we look things up in our Usborne Science Encyclopedia, I use videos from Discovery Education, I will splurge on the occasional Science in a Nutshell Kit. We have never successfully followed a science course before middle school age. And even now my current middle schooler is not doing a formal science. He probably will next year, just to set him up for high school science.

[Jami]

I completely agree with your approach, Stephanie.

 

Science here is videos like Planet Earth, library and our personal books on any and every topic that grabs their interest, and a healthy dose of experiments when we want to see what would happen if....

 

And my oldest has plans to do engineering or something sciency at this point. Though he's 7.5 so I'm not locking him into anything yet. ;)

 

Because my son loves the experimenting side of things, we did recently get the Discover and Do DVDs from Sonlight and the corresponding kits so he can watch the experiment and then do it on his own. Very little effort from mom though!

 

I think the history and philosophy of science are as important to study as the empirical process of using the scientific method itself. But we'll wrap that into our history and later philosophy studies. :)

[Macrina]

:seeya:Hi! New here! Coming over from another forum, looking for a new forum home!

 

Anyway, I was thinking your oldest could learn a lot about science from cooking like a pp said. Alton Brown is a good place to start, he does all he cooking stuff from a science angle. He has a web site, cook book and a TV show (or 2?) I think Good Eats may be the one where he talks science. My hsed sister just graduated and for the last four years all her science came from Alton Brown and from the kitchen- it's amazing the stuff she used to rattle off to me, and it was interesting!

 

And I think it's perfectly acceptable for a lot of science studies to be nature studies if that is the interest.

 

I don't think one should ditch science altogether, but I don't think you need to try to fit a square child into a round peg. Let one do nature studies, another one kitchen studies and include lots of IMAX films in for the less independent ones until you find their nitch!

[PeterPan]

Is it possible your disinterest in science is carrying over to them? My dd is a consumate homemaker also (sews, knits, LOVES to cook, no interest in a career, has plans for her dream farmhouse, etc.), but she likes science. The only one you haven't listed in your tried list, hehe, is BJU, so you might try it. Actually, she doesn't love BJU, but it builds good skills (how to read a textbook, lab write-ups, etc.), is easy to teach, and even has dvd's to teach it. You really have to start doing science with your olders, because they're approaching high school where they will need it. They could do the apologia books, which are written directly to the student, and it would be no trouble for you at all. That would be for your 12 year old. For the 10 yo, I'd get a couple kits and call it good. With the 6 yo, you could pick out some fun usborne books like about magnets, mirrors/light, etc. and do the projects in there. Just once a week on Fridays for an hour, that's all it takes. For lower elementary, that's plenty of science, just those bits of exposure through kits. But come junior high, they really ought to be doing a sensible series and getting that foundation to prepare for high school. Don't let yourself get overwhelmed by the spread of your ages of dc and make it harder than it is. A 12 yo needs a textbook. A 10 yo can do some fun kits (Snap Circuits, Chem 100 from Thames and Cosmos, Exploration Education which is easy to impelement and very good). The 6 yo can just do animals or read and explore with usborne books. That's all you really need to be doing.

 

Science is the bugaboo, certainly, and going more informal, with lots of experiences, is FINE for elementary. Come junior high, you need to crank it up so they learn skills and have a good foundation for high school.

 

BTW, when my dd heard about that Elements chemistry study, she was very excited! It's all based in the kitchen, so how could you go wrong? :)

[Penelope]

In the pre-teen years I don't think you can know for sure what a child is going to do with her life. Speaking from experience. ;)

 

I am still figuring out science and I do tend to think interest-driven is a great way to go for elementary. But I do think introducing things and having some vocabulary is important going into high-school level science. And I think rigorous high school science is very important if a child then decides to pursue science in college. I have known several people who have chosen to change to pre-med or nursing or pharmacy only once in college, and I'd hate for my kids to be handicapped at that point due to a dearth of science til that point, kwim?

[Ummto4]

It's important for me to teach my children how the nature and everything else (technology, for example) works and to instill the love of nature through observation.

 

So even though a child is not inclined to science, it's important to wake up the curiousity of nature. Nature walk, nature journal and living books telling stories about how animals and plants behave can be used to waken up the child's love of nature.

 

 

You may want to get books explaining things like, how vacuum cleaners work, how sewing machine works, why it is quicker to boil water if we put a lid on the pan, etc. You can discuss natural phenomenon, like: why do we have hurricane, what causes rain, what causes a thunder, etc. I guess it'll make them interested in science. Of course you have to be prepared to explain the why and the how. Discussing these things can help with reasoning skills as well.

 

 

HTH

Dian

[HollyinNNV]

"Science" as an individual subject has been a struggle in my home since I began homeschooling 8 years ago. Other than nature studies and books about animals and such from the library, I have never taught science formally. To me it is such a drag and my kids have always frowned whenever we attempted the latest science curriculum. We have tried Sonlight, Apologia, A Beka, Rod and Staff, Noeo and probably a few others I can't think of right now. Anyway, I end up shelving them and eventually selling them. It just seems that after we complete everything else for the day there is not enough time or interest.

 

So with all that said, does anyone else struggle with this too? I figure if the kids need it for entrance into college or profession they want to pursue they can study the necessary materials at that time.

 

My oldest girl is Miss Suzy Homemaker. Loves to read, take care of children, clean house, dance, sew, decorate etc. so she is not natually inclined to scientific stuff.

 

I think if one of my kids showed interest in scientific matter, or seemed naturally inclined I would definitely assist them, but if the motivation has to come from me, it won't get done.

 

I wish I could find a science text like SOTW that didn't include experiments or if they did, explained what happens when you do this and why.

 

Does anyone have any ideas or opinions about this?

 

Thanks

 

I struggled with this, too. After my dd started BJU Physical Science (and now Prentice Hall HS Biology) I stopped struggling. With my son, I do what the manual tells me to do-period. Knowing what high school expects of students in high school has been a surefire way to make me do science-even if I don't want to.

[Colleen in NS]

"Science" as an individual subject has been a struggle in my home since I began homeschooling 8 years ago. Other than nature studies and books about animals and such from the library, I have never taught science formally. To me it is such a drag and my kids have always frowned whenever we attempted the latest science curriculum. We have tried Sonlight, Apologia, A Beka, Rod and Staff, Noeo and probably a few others I can't think of right now. Anyway, I end up shelving them and eventually selling them. It just seems that after we complete everything else for the day there is not enough time or interest.

 

So with all that said, does anyone else struggle with this too? I figure if the kids need it for entrance into college or profession they want to pursue they can study the necessary materials at that time.

 

My oldest girl is Miss Suzy Homemaker. Loves to read, take care of children, clean house, dance, sew, decorate etc. so she is not natually inclined to scientific stuff.

 

I think if one of my kids showed interest in scientific matter, or seemed naturally inclined I would definitely assist them, but if the motivation has to come from me, it won't get done.

 

I wish I could find a science text like SOTW that didn't include experiments or if they did, explained what happens when you do this and why.

 

Does anyone have any ideas or opinions about this?

 

Thanks

 

I'm just going to put a plug in here for doing science the WTM way. This is our 5th year of doing it, and I love it! It is not tied down to a textbook that you read and answer questions from. You use "spines" for basic books, but you supplement this reading with library books, writing narrations/outlines (which could be integrated into your daily writing lessons), and doing experiments. You take a topic from the spine, and let the kids go wild with it! Or let them choose the topics! It's very freeing to me.

 

There is also a CD teaching by SWB, available at PHP, called Science in the Classical Curriculum. It's VERY insightful and motivating, as far as studying science and talking about science, all through the school years. I highly recommend listening to it.

 

I never used to love science, but now I do, thanks to studying it this way.

 

One more thing, the WTM rec'd. materials do contain books that explain the experiments. Esp. the grammar stage physics and chemistry recs. I always wonder why people don't talk about WTM-style science on the boards more. It is *so* fun!:D

[mommy25]

I'm just going to put a plug in here for doing science the WTM way. This is our 5th year of doing it, and I love it! It is not tied down to a textbook that you read and answer questions from. You use "spines" for basic books, but you supplement this reading with library books, writing narrations/outlines (which could be integrated into your daily writing lessons), and doing experiments. You take a topic from the spine, and let the kids go wild with it! Or let them choose the topics! It's very freeing to me.

 

There is also a CD teaching by SWB, available at PHP, called Science in the Classical Curriculum. It's VERY insightful and motivating, as far as studying science and talking about science, all through the school years. I highly recommend listening to it.

 

I never used to love science, but now I do, thanks to studying it this way.

 

One more thing, the WTM rec'd. materials do contain books that explain the experiments. Esp. the grammar stage physics and chemistry recs. I always wonder why people don't talk about WTM-style science on the boards more. It is *so* fun!:D

 

Hi Colleen,

 

I have looked at the science books recommended in WTM and even found them at a discount bookstore but did not purchase them as it looked like all of the experiments were using materials that were hard to find.

 

If you were starting in the middle with a 10 and 12 year old, where would you start and with what books do like for spines?

 

Thanks

[ElizabethB]

I'm doing Real Science for Kids chemistry, it is very well explained and all the experiments use stuff you have on hand or can easily find.

 

It's good for someone who doesn't know much science. I would do chemistry and physics. Start at pre-Level one and work your way up, all your kids could participate in the pre-Level one. My 3 year old had fun making marshmallow molecules. You can learn enough biology and the other sciences from other sources, but chemistry and physics really need good books.

 

You can see the full text of the books online!

 

http://www.gravitaspublications.com/products/

 

(I have a B.S. in biology and have taken a lot of science and engineering. I worked as a Chemist for my first job when I worked--the Air Force has a mistaken idea that Biology and Chemistry and both sciences, so someone with a degree in one can work in either field. I did fine, but I did sometimes have to refer things to senior chemists at the lab where I worked.)

 

We just do Chemistry once a week.

[Colleen in NS]

Hi Colleen,

 

I have looked at the science books recommended in WTM and even found them at a discount bookstore but did not purchase them as it looked like all of the experiments were using materials that were hard to find.

 

If you were starting in the middle with a 10 and 12 year old, where would you start and with what books do like for spines?

 

Thanks

 

My oldest is younger than your oldest, so I haven't gone that far yet with teaching a 12 yo. But, I did buy all the logic stage rec'd books in the 2004 WTM (I like to buy ahead, heh heh). They were hard to find, though. I also have all the grammar stage science books. I suppose if I was starting with a 10yo and 12yo, I would go ahead and use the logic stage recs, because of how they are written and all the pictures, except that most of them are out of print and you'd have to find them secondhand. Or, you could try to find some other books that would suffice as general spines from which to get topics - a book on animals, a book on plants, a book on the human body (all for biology for a year), then a book on earth and one on space (for earth and sky), a chemistry kit for a chemistry year, and a physics book/kits for a physics year.

 

SWB, on one of her summer blogs last year, listed many experiment kits that you can buy, too, for logic stage science (since the rec'd books are out of print!). And according to that CD she made, the gist of grammar stage science is to observe (nature, Mom conducting experiments and explaining them, etc.) and talk about what's happening. The gist of logic stage is to start experimenting and figuring out for yourself (with parent's guidance) what is going on - analyzing the experiment or analyzing the writing in the science book/science encyclopedia.

 

I know what you mean about the materials - but, there still are experiments in the 2004 WTM recs that have easier experiments to do. Like yesterday, ds did one from the How Nature Works book that involved putting a tooth in a glass of coke for 24 hours and seeing what happens. It was so simple, yet illustrated the concepts that were being talked about in that section of the book. It will also provide fodder for further talking/thinking/writing. Some of the other experiments involve building cages and such, and we haven't done them yet, but we *have* managed to find experiments at least every other week that we could do fairly easily. It does take my effort, but once I get into it, it always turns out to be interesting for all of us. The thing is, you don't have to do every experiment in the book, and you don't have to do them exactly - maybe you have a box you could use, instead of building a cage yourself, kwim? You pick and choose what your kids want to do and what you have the time, energy, and materials for.

 

Another idea is to check out the 2009 version of WTM when it comes out - I'm sure there will be fabulous recs in there for logic stage.

 

hth

[Macrina]

Of course brainpop has about 200 science movies online that would be great- do one a week and incorporate some library books or short demonstration/real life application to the topic chosen- wonderful for all your age groups.

[Mamagistra]

My kids are very interested in science. They read about science, we talk about science, we go to science museums, we watch documentaries, etc. It's easy to learn about scientific topics and information.

 

Other than that, learning to observe is important. Critical thinking is important. An understanding of the scientific method is important. And performing real experiments, as they come up - when a kid says, "I wonder what would happen if ...?" You take that moment. If it's at all something you can test, you get the materials, talk about what you think might happen, and then experiment. Change variables and experiment again. Talk about the need for a control, and how to include one in the experiment. See what happens and discuss that, see if you can figure out why it happened, do some research.

 

:iagree: That's what we do here.

 

I have one peep that is serious about paleontology so I've fretted about science here and there. Frankly, their regular observation (of the land, plants, chickens, LOL) and voracious reading has given them a deeper understanding of many topics than I could have provided by following a curriculum.