Emerson's Self-Relience...

[Nan in Mass]

My children have taken a skunner to it, and now even though the things he is saying aren't things they disagree with (unlike the beginning points), they are very, very underimpressed. Part of the problem might be that the things he's presenting as new ideas aren't at all new to them. And part of the problem is that they think it is pretty hypocritical to tell people to think for themselves and then ask them to listen and believe you. Any suggestions on how to make them appreciate this? Or is it something that they just aren't going to appreciate. For once, we are reading something by someone who is the same denomination as us, so it seems rather a shame that they don't like him. Not that I don't agree with some of their points. Which is another problem...

-Nan

[Chris in VA]

I don't know if Emerson's thoughts were considered radical at the time (I suspect so, since he is famous for them), but perhaps you could compare and contrast his views with whatever the prevailing view was--how radical was he for his time, and why? And go from there. So, you wouldn't really be asking them to agree or disagree or comment on the actual ideas, just on the radical-ness (if that's a word!) of them.

[katilac]

The transcendentalists in general are just an annoying bunch :D

 

They may find it far more interesting to read more about the transendentalist movement in general, rather than Emerson's work in depth. imo, this is truly a case where context is everything - - plus there were all kinds of intrigues and battles going on amongst these high-minded people, lol.

 

All American students hear about is Emerson and Thoreau, so it's also interesting to learn more about his other contemporaries (Bronson Alcott was an early leader, very well-known at one time, but now mostly known as Louisia May Alcott's father).

 

Honestly, they're all a bit 'precious' at times, and Thoreau gets on my last nerve, but I find the movement and people surrounding it interesting.

[HollyinNNV]

I taught Emerson and Thoreau last year. I would characterize most of the students' reactions as tepid. Only a couple of the deep-thinking boys were intrigued. Most of the kids (all of the girls interestingly) were pretty neutral. They didn't hate the reading. And frankly, I remember having the same reaction in high school. I think it just might be an age thing.

[Chris in VA]

BTW, my 10th grade English teacher referred to Thoreau as

"Throw-Up." Mature, huh.

[Moira in MA]

Hmm, Emerson -- I keep trying to get into him since we live in Concord -- can't seem to do it somehow.

 

But, we have a fantastic resource here: 'Special Collections', the curator is Leslie Perrin Wilson. She also wrote the Cliff notes on the Transcendentalist. This may be a good resource for you.

 

HTH

~Moira

[Michelle in MO]

I have not read "Self Reliance", but when I listened to Arnold Weinstein's lecture series (TTC: "Classics of American Literature"), he made the point repeatedly that Emerson was very difficult for his own generation to understand and accept.

[Halftime Hope]

thre was an article within the last year or so in Smithsonian magazine re. Thoreau's journals/diaries being used by modern scholars to compare the state of the climate in and around Walden Pond with the climate today, to show how much things have changed (or not, I don't remember what they concluded.)

 

Often times the Smithsonian website has tie-in material, so you could see if they have anything on Thoreau there. If you can't find anything, I'd be happy to see if I can lay my hand on the old issue and send you scans or hard-copies, if that would help your boys make a tie-in to their lives in the here and now.

 

Part of what is difficult about some authorsartists is that their work was so ground-breaking for their time, but now their ideas are pretty mainstream, so our kids go "ho-hum".

[Nan in Mass]

They liked the pinhole analogy, but it led to sad and angry comments about friends who are upsetting their families by leaving the family church. They disagreed strenuously with his take on creativity, which unfortunately came at the beginning. And they keep saying, "Plato said that in his Republic. How was this new?" and I don't know enough to explain. It would be easier if I didn't agree with them GRIN.

 

I vaguely remember that Smithsonian article, so I think it must be around somewhere. If I can't find it, maybe you could scan and send it to me? And I will look for other material at the site.

 

Thank you.

[Halftime Hope]

them duhhing him. If they were mine, I'd do an attitude check (charitable vs. unkind....not that yours would need that, but at least one of mine would :glare:) and then applaud them for remembering and making the connection to other authors. And, if your kids all don't think he's "all that", good for them! They are thinking and discerning. Maybe the most one can say for Thoreau is that he was influential and was an icon for a movement, even if not truly original.

 

I'm with you and your kids on this one.

 

And let me know if you want that Smithsonian material.

Edited January 17, 2009 by Valerie(TX)
last thought

[Carol in Cal.]

Hmm, Emerson -- I keep trying to get into him since we live in Concord -- can't seem to do it somehow.

 

But, we have a fantastic resource here: 'Special Collections', the curator is Leslie Perrin Wilson. She also wrote the Cliff notes on the Transcendentalist. This may be a good resource for you.

 

HTH

~Moira

 

Have your kids studied "The Diamond in the Window"? That was my all time favorite book until I read LOTR in 7th grade. It is set in Concord, and references a number of local authors--LMA, HDT, Oliver Wendall Holmes, and others.

 

Have to say, last year when I organized a book group around that book and its antecedents, I dipped into Thoreau, and was tremendously unimpressed. I found him almost completely depressing. "Most men lead lives of quiet desperation" and then it just goes downhill from there. I expected to find stirring, inspiring, poetic writing to share with the kids. Instead I decided to skip him altogether. YMMV. But what a let down for me.

[Moira in MA]

Both my dds read The Diamond in the Window shortly after we moved here from CA.

 

With respect to local authors, they both enjoy Louisa May Alcott and Nathaniel Hawthorne materials but have had less experience of Thoreau and Emerson although my elder dd is reading Walden as part of her AP Language and Composition course and claims to be enjoying it.

 

She must be since she will be attempting to account for the relative shift in popularity of Emerson and Thoreau between the 1870's and today for her research paper.

 

~Moira

[Jane in NC]

Is anyone familiar with the play The Night Thoreau Spent in Jail by Lee and Lawrence, the pair who also wrote Inherit the Wind? I am wondering if this play is a gentle introduction to both Thoreau and Emerson.

[Nan in Mass]

I hope someone answers you, because the Thoreau we'll be reading is his Civil Disobedience. Given my middle one's background, I don't expect to find them objecting as much to Thoreau.

[Moira in MA]

I hope someone answers you, because the Thoreau we'll be reading is his Civil Disobedience. Given my middle one's background, I don't expect to find them objecting as much to Thoreau.

Maybe you could substitute reading from Thoreau's journals? While looking for an AP test host, I came across an English course listing at Middlesex School in Concord that may be just the ticket given your natural history background.

Spring. Mr. X. 4 meetings weekly. Block TBA.

“To attend chiefly to the desk or schoolhouse,†Thoreau observes, “while we neglect the scenery in which it is placed is absurd.†This course deliberately turns its back on the desk and schoolhouse to venture into “the scenery.†Our chief companion and guide in this excursion will be a frequent visitor to and explorer of what he called the “Estabrook country,†Henry David Thoreau (not, however, the Thoreau of Walden, but rather of the Journals, in which he is a much more personable and even interesting fellow). Other texts will include William Cronon’s classic ecological history of New England, Changes in the Land, and Tom Wessels’ Reading the Forested Landscape, as well as field and tracking guides. Students unwilling to cut prematurely their umbilical cord to the Middlesex campus and venture into the woods for at least several uninterrupted hours each week should not enroll in this course. Students planning to take the course should consider equipping themselves with some of the following: boots, waders, magnifying class, field guides, binoculars. We will study Thoreau’s journal in order to learn how to keep one. We will write essays both analytical and meditative. Perhaps we will become transcendentalists.

 

Just a thought.

~Moira

[TeacherZee]

This weeks In Our Time on BBC radio 4 was about Thoreau. Might be worth a look at as they usually like to other research.

[Jane in NC]

This weeks In Our Time on BBC radio 4 was about Thoreau. Might be worth a look at as they usually like to other research.

 

Looks interesting! Here is the link.

 

Thank you.