OK strict moms, talk to me about discipline....

[Stacey in MA]

I feel like I have to fight for everything! Every request I make! I have ask a million times for things to happen a certain way - for the kids to follow established rules and new rules. I have to raise my voice often. I have to feel aggrravated often. I have to wrestle for authority, and get questioned all the time. My oldest are only 6 and 9!! Urghh!!

 

In the end, I "get my way", but I have to fight. So for instance, if the shoes aren't put away, the one assigned to that job doesn't eat dinner until their job is done. But much crying, whining, etc. happens before the shoes get done. What's the big deal?? Put the darned shoes away like every other day before and come to the table!!! How about school schedules? Every morning is the same...I have a written schedule of what needs to be done, and in what order (b/c some things are more important than others). So why oh why must we fight about it! Yes, DD6, you MUST do your chore in the morning before starting school (her's is to tidy the school room - dump trash, clear table, put away misc. things that might have been left out.) I've given her the option of doing it in the evening before she goes to bed so that it will be done by morning, but she chooses morning. But then morning comes and she wants to do her own thing....play in her room, play with her sister/brother, sit around, read her "fun" reading (not school related).

 

What do you do to make things happen! Any good tips? good books or mehtods? I feel like we are so pulled apart by disharmony.... It's me, constantly trying to force our lives into place, and everyone else (i.e. the kids) trying to counteract me.

 

Does it get better? Do I just need to "get used to it"? This is parenting? Having one of those teary mornings...

 

Thanks! - Stacey in MA

[RoughCollie]

The techniques in the book 1-2-3 Magic worked for me. To this day, all I have to do is say "One" and the kids hop to.

 

Being consistent and constant supervision are the keys to not living in a madhouse. It was very difficult for me to do that with so many demands being made on me by many people and responsibilities. In fact, it is still difficult even though my kids are teens.

 

I would have DD6 do her chore in the evening, rather than give her the option of waiting until morning. I have found that little kids cannot handle options like that very well -- they will always put off a chore and then want to do anything but that chore later. My kids did, anyway, when I gave them similar options at that age. Heck, they do it now. At this time, my children are laboring under the "work before play" dictum.

 

RC

Edited January 12, 2009 by RoughCollie

[Parrothead]

You will have add an extra discipline for whining, crying, not listening. That whole thing our mom's said to us, "Do you want me to give you a reason to cry?"

 

I don't know if you use the good swat on the butt or a stint in time out land, but adding an extra when the whining starts and then demanding the original chore get done should get you where you want to be. Being consistent will help too. If you ever give in to the whining/crying/etc you've lost the battle.

 

Your littlest will need help go get their chores completed for quite a while longer because they are so little. Your six-year old may still need help. You may have to stand next to her so she isn't so overwhelmed with all of the parts of the chore. "Take care of the trash can. Now go pick up the markers. You are doing good, take care of the pencils and you are done."

 

Another thing that helps is praise for a job well done.

 

Good luck

[Remudamom]

I was a spanker. I say was because I don't need to anymore, and they are older. I think the window for spanking is pretty narrow. My kids do what they are asked and they usually do it quickly. I have one that will occasionally ooze a bit of attitude, but it's very quiet attitude.

 

Try not to take it personally. Just decide that you will not get drawn in to yelling and fighting and it'll go better. Just calmly and deliberately pile on the consequences for not listening/obeying/cooperating and see what happens.

[Mari]

I told someone else about this book in another thread:

 

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0800719026/ref=ord_cart_shr?%5Fencoding=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&v=glance

 

It will change your whole outlook on parenting and give you methods and motivation that works.

 

Good Luck!

[The Girls' Mom]

I agree with the other poster about disciplining for the whining and crying. My kids have always been taught that there is NO whining or back talk when asked to do something. (I'm not saying that they never TRY, but there is always an immediate consequence when they do) For the most part at 12 and 9, my girls do what they are told without sass or crying, etc.

[Jennifer]

I agree with the other poster about disciplining for the whining and crying. My kids have always been taught that there is NO whining or back talk when asked to do something. (I'm not saying that they never TRY, but there is always an immediate consequence when they do) For the most part at 12 and 9, my girls do what they are told without sass or crying, etc.

 

What are the consequences you use? I've just posted a new message on a similar topic and like the OP I'm having a teary, discouraging morning.

 

Jennifer

[Harriet Vane]

Some tools in my arsenal:

 

I start with One Chance to Obey. If there is not obedience, there is consequence. I will not beg or cajole, I go straight to a consequence. This is not done in an angry or vengeful way, nor am I on the waiting to swoop right down for the least infraction. I found that responding with consequences right away actually ensures that I am NOT angry--I am still totally calm, and the interaction feels more like coaching than like punishing. I personally don't think it really matters what the consequence is as long as it happens with consistency. For me, the consequences vary depending upon what the issue is and how blatant the disrespect. If a kid is totally disrespectful I might require the kid to fold his/her hands and go to time-out. Like Remudamom, I have also spanked (it's always been a slap on the hand) but my kids are at the stage where that is not effective. Usually, though, for things that are not blatant disrespect, I might choose an extra chore or a do-over or a consequence specifically related to the issue over which we are disagreeing.

 

This brings us to the other tools in my arsenal . . . I'll start with a consequence specifically related to the issue over which we are disagreeing. If my ds refuses to put down his legos to come do schoolwork, then he has lost lego privileges for the day. Sometimes I temper this with a gentle reminder, "Ds, you know if you don't obey I'll have to put the legos away for the day." Often the reminder is quite effective. I may NOT give the reminder, as they are expected to obey, or I might give just the one reminder if I sense he's just being childish and he needs my help obeying.

 

Another consequence is extra chores. Again, if I think my child is just being lazy (as opposed to totally defiant) I might give that gentle reminder, "Remember, if you don't clear your dishes as I have asked, I will have to give you extra work." Then the extra work I assign might be to both clear his dishes AND load the dishwasher. If there is total defiance (rare but yes it happens with even the sweetest kid) then I move to something more heavy duty, like mopping the kitchen floor. I try to relate the consequence to the issue as much as possible.

 

Finally, my favorite tool for discipline is the do-over. This was especially effective when my dd turned into a hormonal pre-teen, though I have done this with children of all ages. So, for example, let's say I have asked a kid to put away their toys and come to the table for school, and the kid responds with a roll of the eyes and says, "Do I have to? I hate doing math." Then I might say, "Dd, when you roll your eyes like that it makes me think that you think I am really stupid. Is that how you wish me to feel?" (At this point, just identifying the behavior and how it makes the other feel is enough for dd to feel embarrassed and unhappy about it.) I then continue, "Let's try that again." I then repeat my request and dd responds better, something like, "Okay, I'll come." Sometimes if dd is still unhappy about having to do her math or just in a mood, she might need my help giving her words, so I will suggest, "Try it this way: Sure, I'll come." Then we do-over, and she responds as I have asked her to.

 

I like do-overs because it gives the kid a specific model for how to respond to me right then and there. Often we do this humorously. If I have asked the kids to come do a chore and they go all floppy and dispirited, I might adopt a syrupy-sweet-high voice and act out the way I want to respond like this, "Guys, try it this way. (Voice changes to the high sweet voice) Why yes, dear Mother! It would be our heart's delight to come empty the dishwasher." I then skip across the kitchen to the dishwasher and say brightly, "Here I am!" I then turn to the kids and say, "Do it like that, go ahead." It lightens the mood but still sets the expectation for obeying nicely.

 

It is important to also teach your kids how to express themselves back to you appropriately if they disagree. For example, if I have told them to come for school but dd is almost at the end of a chapter of the book she is reading, she has to (1) show her willingness to obey and (2) make her request respectfully. In the book example, then, dd might respond to me by saying, "Yes, I'll come but can I just finish this chapter?" My own mother always insisted on instant obedience no matter what, and that was painful to me, so I am happy to accommodate reasonable requests. I cannot always do so (like if we are hurrying to go somewhere) but because my kids know I am reasonable, they also know that when I insist a thing has to be done immediately that I have a reason for it.

[LibraryLover]

I think kid personality plays a huge part. I three kids who will do whatever and help without any problems. But I have one who...well...let's just say that a simple "Check your room for library books to return" will offer up a massive whine about how 'you always make me do everything, you never ask the other kids to check their room for library books".

 

I have no idea where this kid came from.

[The Girls' Mom]

What are the consequences you use? I've just posted a new message on a similar topic and like the OP I'm having a teary, discouraging morning.

 

Jennifer

 

 

In the past, we have spanked, although with their ages we don't really do that much any more. (nor do we have to these days) They have also been sent to their rooms to sit by themselves on the bed, made to stand in the corner (they hate that) made to do a chore they hate, etc.

 

The biggest thing for us is being consistent. They know that EVERY time there will be a punishment for back talk and disobedience. It's exhausting when they are small to do that, but it's worth it in the end.

[dangermom]

I start with One Chance to Obey. ...

Strider, thanks for these. I have used some in the past but needed the reminder! I'm trying to get the kids back into shape after I slacked off over Christmas.

[coffeegal]

The techniques in the book 1-2-3 Magic worked for me. To this day, all I have to do is say "One" and the kids hop to.

 

RC

 

:iagree: The book is wonderful. My teachers used it in school, and I use it with my children. Although one of mine waits for "two" before he hops to it. lol.

[BMW]

We recently went through a bout of this with a son. He always cycles in behavior... he's good for a while, then tests everything, battles, loses and decides to be good instead of being in trouble... then he forgets that he lost the battle and decides to test and battle again... phew! Exhausting!

 

We recently noticed that he just wasn't doing what he wa stold. He'd look like he was about to obey, then sneak off when out of sight. Dh had a weekend with him where he disobeyed constantly. So, I brought it to sons attention and said that I would be paying attention. Then each and every time he didn't obey (I am talking about specific things, like being told to hang his towel, he walks to bathroom, out of sight, leaves towel on the floor... goes to play), I called him back and had him obey, then for not obeying me he stood in the middle of the room and raised his hands in the air. He was required to hold them up for about 3 minutes. He hated this. But, each time he disobeyed, this was required and he figured out that he would rather obey. I knew this wasn't physically injurious in any way, but it gave him time to think about his actions, he was uncomfortable and so, it was like a time out that got his attention. After a couple of days, he started doing what he was told.

 

But, I am always switching things up around here. And I try to apply the wisdom of great parenting books. I try to comment on good behavior and even just neutral behavior and give them attention.

[Joanne]

I'm not fond of the use of time out as a panacea, and I don't like the tone, adversarial mindset and classifcation of children in the Magic 1-2-2 resources. But! I do think that the original Magic 1-2-3 is a great tool for parents to use when moving away from a permissive/punitive cycle and into a more disciplined, consistent home.

 

You've been permissive (in spite of the yelling and disharmony). You've allowed them too many chances. You are now completely "done" and frustrated and go over the top with your reaction. Magic 1-2-3 offers ideas on consistency that will them know you mean business and long before you lose it.

 

A very simple form is on my site under "Get off your butt parenting".

[LND1218]

I totally agree about discipling for attitude - whining, crying and all that just isn't okay. It's not enough for them to do the task they must do it with a good attitude.

 

 

When I give an instruction, they are to say Yes mom and do it. We also expect first time obedience. I can't say every day/time is perfect, but boy does it really make things better!

[battlemaiden]

I tend to make them repeat the behavior with a good attitude. "come back here and we are going to do that again with a good attitude." Then I will give them *more opportunity* to practice their good attitude with a different request.

 

Depending on the age I give more modeling of the behavior. If they are older they just get more chores to practice responding to me with respect. I try to keep it funny and calm. But if they are truly disrespecting me and willfully disobeying I will spank for that offense.

 

I see a big difference between being in a mood, and needing some help knowing what the correct response should be, and just flat out looking me in the face and stomping off.

 

Jo

[2cents]

1-2-3 Magic user here too. Easy and fast to implement. Consistency is Key.

[FriedClams]

First - hang in there. Parenting is so much harder than I think we all thought it would be! HUGS!!!

 

I think I would be considered strict - so here's what I would do...

 

In our house attitude is just as, if not more important than actions. I would discipline attitudes as much as what they do or do not do. We have trained our kids to answer (with a nice attitude) "Yes ma'am" (or sir or whatever) when they are asked to do something. Occasionally and within limits they may ask about the task. We are parents and we can ID stalling, whining, complaining a mile off and that is met with "What should I hear?". They know through our consistency that immediate action will be met with a consequence. We're now working on training to "Yes ma'am I would be happy to help". Right now since it's new we're using a chart and every time I hear that without prompting they get a mark. A mark is worth a penny. When we get the habit the chart will go away. It's working WONDERS!! They also get a penny for any time they check in after a task and ask, "Is there anything else I can do to help?". 95% of the time I say no, hug them, verbally reward them and then put up a mark (in my brain - since a real chart would be a PAIN!! Little kids might need a real chart.)

 

When my kids were little I trained them to come when I called, with a "Yes, ma'am" by sitting in the kitchen and giving them an m&m every time I called them and they respond properly. One afternoon - lots of chocolate and giggles - 4 years later they still respond properly.

 

For consequences I try to 1. tie it to the offense, 2. make it meaningful, 3. make it quick. Disrespect - time in the corner away from family members as we don't allow disrespectful people to spend time with our family. Apologies. Restitution (show others we don't feel that way by serving them and maybe doing their chores to show love and respect). Lazy attitude or work - more work to practice on attitude and diligence.

 

I also try to teach the biblical principles behind the issue - what God does not like (lying lips) and what we should strive to be (men who a truthful).

 

Some resources I would recommend:

Don't Make me Count to Three - especially the awesome chart that you can buy as a companion to the book

For Instruction In Righteousness - and the charts if you think the consistency of them would help you (we used to "meet at the chart" to talk things over and get our consequence - I think it's great for younger kids)

Creative Correction - LOTS of great creative ways to train a heart of obedience

 

Hang in there. BE CONSISTENT! You can do it!! Stick with it all out for a week (where heart training is you absolute priority and you will die on the hills) and you will see amazing results. Stick with it!!

[Dayle in Guatemala]

In our house obeying with a bad attitude is the same as disobedience and is disciplined as though they disobeyed in the first place. We've explained to our dc that you get to choose your attitude in how you are going to get a job done even if you can't choose the job--you can control your emotions and attitudes and not let them control you.

 

I would discipline swiftly for the attitude and they crying and the whining. Take away a privilege or add another chore, early bedtime, something like that.

 

Hope this helps fwiw!!!!:001_smile:

[dirty ethel rackham]

I second Joanne's website. She has a wealth of parenting advice that helps set the tone. Two books that helped us have more obedience AND more peace are

Loving your Child is Not Enough: Positive Discipline that Works by Nancy Samalin

Kids Are Worth It: Giving Your Child the Gift of Inner Discipline by Barbara Coloroso.

 

You mention how you have to "fight" to get your kids to obey. We need to provide discipline, but that does not always need punishment. A heavily punative environment leads to the very fighting and attitude problems your children are displaying. Building the relationship can go a long way towards encouraging good behavior, not just punishing bad behavior. Neither of the books above encourage permissiveness. They encourage good behavior, but go about it in a more positive way.

[amyable]

What about the "mild" attitudes - my 11 and 9 year olds are queens of the slight eye roll, the sigh, the firm set of the lips or slight pout when asked to do something. I very RARELY get a nice response from them, yet it is not often a big whiny problem (except from my 3yo, yikes she is a handful!!).

 

Do you attack these mild issues too? Let them pass? It bothers me personally when they always respond to me this way, but I feel like a grinch to not let them have their own emotions about stuff.

[The Girls' Mom]

What about the "mild" attitudes - my 11 and 9 year olds are queens of the slight eye roll, the sigh, the firm set of the lips or slight pout when asked to do something. I very RARELY get a nice response from them, yet it is not often a big whiny problem (except from my 3yo, yikes she is a handful!!).

 

Do you attack these mild issues too? Let them pass? It bothers me personally when they always respond to me this way, but I feel like a grinch to not let them have their own emotions about stuff.

 

We don't let them get away with those either. The way I look at it is this: There is a certain way I expect them to behave towards their elders. ALL of them, including their own parents. I would be VERY upset at my dd's if they sighed, eye-rolled, or pouted when asked by another adult to do something. So I expect the same when they are responding to us. It's a matter of respect. My kids DO have the chance to voice their opinions..as long as they are respectful while doing it.

[Jugglin'5]

What about the "mild" attitudes - my 11 and 9 year olds are queens of the slight eye roll, the sigh, the firm set of the lips or slight pout when asked to do something. I very RARELY get a nice response from them, yet it is not often a big whiny problem (except from my 3yo, yikes she is a handful!!).

 

Do you attack these mild issues too? Let them pass? It bothers me personally when they always respond to me this way, but I feel like a grinch to not let them have their own emotions about stuff.

 

 

My experience with my own kids has been that when I am strict about the little things, the big things are rarely an issue.:001_smile:

[Liz CA]

The techniques in the book 1-2-3 Magic worked for me. To this day, all I have to do is say "One" and the kids hop to.

 

 

RC

 

I never read the book but learned this technique from my sil and it worked for us as well.

There are some that say parents should not have to count at all and obedience should be immediate and without questioning. If I felt I was getting a lot of whining, I often added chores for every whine - that worked amazingly well too.

When a child really has a reasonable comment, I would try to reply calmly and without any negative consequences because I never wanted ds to think he couldn't even ask a question...but a question is different than a whine. I think I explained that to him a few times and he finally got it.

[scubamama]

There's alot of good stuff here....I just love a thread like this one!

Seriously though, I think I tend to follow after Strider's "method". I get better results...each kiddo is different...yada yada yada. You all know what I mean.

I have gotten a LOT of good suggestions from Joh Rosemond and his website rosemond.com I really like his creative discipline ideas. I'm not much of a spanker, so it was very helpful to get some good ideas! I tend tyo not be very creative when the moment is here!

 

Michele

[LND1218]

We don't let them get away with those either. The way I look at it is this: There is a certain way I expect them to behave towards their elders. ALL of them, including their own parents. I would be VERY upset at my dd's if they sighed, eye-rolled, or pouted when asked by another adult to do something. So I expect the same when they are responding to us. It's a matter of respect. My kids DO have the chance to voice their opinions..as long as they are respectful while doing it.

 

:iagree:

 

My experience with my own kids has been that when I am strict about the little things' date=' the big things are rarely an issue.:001_smile:[/quote']

 

:iagree:

 

My kids are welcome to voice their opinions as long as it's respectful. They are welcome to disagree as long as they conduct themselves politely.

 

What I think about is - How would an employer react to that? I don't want my kids to think it's okay and carry that into the work place or into dealing with others.

 

I will never forget the first time a store employee responded to dh and I with an eye roll and sigh. Dh even spoke to the manager about it. I couldnt' believe it. But I have seen it many times since then, and I find it so sad that this the only way a young adult knows how to communicate with an adult.

Edited January 12, 2009 by Steph

[Laura Corin]

My children are obedient and I expect excellent behaviour of them, but I try to use methods that draw them to me, rather than pushing them away. When I ask one of the boys to do something for me, they do it without argument, although I'm happy to listen to, 'May I just read this last page in my chapter first please?' and be flexible if possible.

 

A refusal to cooperate leads to hugs, talks, explanations and compliance. The child is brought closer into the family, I explain his place in the unit and how that place involves duties as well as privileges, then the child is sent on his way to do as I said. During the first few weeks of this system (I had previously used time-outs, which were leading to escalating naughtiness) we had hugs and talks hourly. Now the talks only happen about once a month.

 

Best wishes

 

Laura

[The Governess]

My dd 4.5 is constantly testing the boundaries in our house and trying to figure out what she can get away with. So I can sympathize!!

 

What I have done: if she is talking to me in an over-the-top whiny or attitude-y voice, I immediately say: "I'm sorry, but the tone of voice/words you are using is not okay/ is inappropriate. Please try again using a nice, respectful voice and words." Sometimes this is enough. If she continues to whine, she will get a time out. If it happens repeatedly in one day, she will lose privileges. No TV time for the rest of the day, and/or going to bed right after dinner with no game playing or story.

 

I'll encourage her also, and remind her what she will be giving up if she continues her behavior. "I really hope that you can remember to use your nice voice, because I'm really looking forward to playing ____ game with you and I hope we don't have to skip it tonight."

 

At the same time, if her behavior is due to tiredness (we've been too busy or we didn't get her to bed on time), I'm a lot easier on her because I know that I am partially to blame. So I may just ask her to play quietly in her room until she wants to come out and try again.

 

As for asking her to do things, I have found that setting a timer helps a lot. I'll set one sometimes at dinner, if dh and I have finished eating but the girls are refusing to finish. I'll usually say that they have x minutes to finish if we're going to have time to do something fun before bed, and they nearly always cooperate. I think having a set amount of time to finish a task rather than leaving it open ended can help.

[Stacey in MA]

I have plenty to sift through and think about. There was no time to really stop today and work it out...it just went downhill all day....ugh! And today is my birthday. Maybe that was the problem - I had this unrealistic hope that they would magically BEHAVE for me as an act of kindness. Ah well - we get to try again tomorrow.

 

Don't worry about me - I'll be over it soon. I think PMS isn't helping either - hee hee! You guys are great though! And I so appreciate everyone's experiences and advice. I love that we have a place like this, with like-minded lifestyles, to come and bounce things off of; thank you SWB!

 

- Stacey in MA

[momtoboys]

I am so *not* strict. I have to read through this thread thoroughly for ideas. Surprisingly my kids are fairly good (DH is more of a disciplinarian than I am).

 

I am worried about being too strict, and want to make sure I show tons of mercy to my kids. I wold never ever ever want to come near being abusive (not that I'm saying anyone on this thread is).

[amyable]

And today is my birthday. Maybe that was the problem - I had this unrealistic hope that they would magically BEHAVE for me as an act of kindness.

 

Happy birthday! (a little late now) :party:

[MomOfOneFunOne]

My experience with my own kids has been that when I am strict about the little things' date=' the big things are rarely an issue.:001_smile:[/quote']

 

I second this (I've only read up to this far so perhaps I'll third, fourth, or fifth this)!

 

My husband has really gotten onto this band-wagon. The mayor of a very large city (it might be Giuliani and New York) really cleaned-up his city in an amazing way by attacking the little things. His philosophy was that with crumbling walks and broken windows no one respects the building and it only gets worse. If the city will spruce up (and require owners to do the same) the residents of the areas will respect the area and act accordingly. We believe this. I'm not a Giuliani fan, ich, otherwise but this is a philosophy that I believe.

 

The idea is that if your children obey in the small things and wouldn't dare disobey on eye-rolling, they definately won't be sneaking out the window at night. If you make the family a beautiful environment (loving, nurturing, et c.) the child (and parents and outsiders) will respect and value it and behave accordingly. I believe!