Heidi @ Mt Hope Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 I now spell 'definitely' correctly, I think I've sorted out the that/which rule, I've been working very hard on my lie/lay usage (boy, is it hard to change bad habits!), but I am still confused on the 'if I was/if I were' grammar rule. My oldest son is only 7, so I haven't had a chance to learn grammar along with him. :) So, If I was (were) to form a sentence without knowing the rule, it would make sense to say 'if I was' because one would say 'I was.' But it appears that I am wrong. Could someone explain it to me? Pretty please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cathmom Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 This is the subjunctive, which we don't use very much in English. The correct thing to say is, "If I were to do x, then would y happen?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandra Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 (edited) I love the subjunctive, but it is dropping out of our language -- how nice that you are using it. Most (all?) Indo-European languages have a subjunctive to express something that is a wish or judgement or command or something else that is not actually happening. If I *were* to write a series of best-selling novels, I would be rich. I'm on the phone -- you *be* good now! I know that when I took French & Latin & Greek, I had tables to memorize showing what subjunctive form to use with specific verb tenses. Presumably, there is something like that for English -- perhaps someone here has one? Edited January 6, 2009 by Alessandra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GailV Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 "If I were a rich man Ya ha deedle deedle, bubba bubba deedle deedle dum..." Sorry, I always think of Tevye when I think about the phrase "If I were". Tevye wasn't a rich man, he could only speculate on what it would be like to be one, so he used subjunctive tense. He wasn't rich, but he used good grammar. ETA: I learned subjunctive when I took Spanish in middle school. My English grammar classes barely gave it a nod. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heidi @ Mt Hope Posted January 6, 2009 Author Share Posted January 6, 2009 Ah, thanks for coming to my rescue! Another mystery solved. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeacherZee Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 You might want to look and listen to Grammar Girls PodCasts. I find them great (and they are very short:D). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle in MO Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 German, French, and Spanish have the subjunctive mood, too. I still like to use were for hypothetical situations, like Gail mentioned, "If I were a rich man . . . " :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanne in ABQ Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 If making a statement contrary to fact, use "were". This is the rule I was taught in high school, and I'm sticking to it. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cindyg Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 The way I learned it is that you use WERE if you are stating a "wish, a supposition, or a dream." I'm not sure exactly what all that means, but I know these are good examples: If I were to win the lottery... I wish I were going to win the lottery... I suppose if I were to win the lottery... Suppose a woman were to win the lottery... Would my prize money were here! But don't these sound weird: I wish I were still a size 8. Last night I dreamed I were at Manderlay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GailV Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 But don't these sound weird: I wish I were still a size 8. That doesn't sound odd to me. It sounds like something I would say. Well, except that I've never been a size 8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cathmom Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Last night I dreamed I were at Manderlay. This is a fact, you don't use subjunctive here. It's just "Last night I dreamed I was at Manderlay." Where the heck is that, BTW? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danestress Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 "Last night I dreamed I went to Manderlay....." (from Rebecca). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracey in TX Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 "If I were a rich manYa ha deedle deedle, bubba bubba deedle deedle dum..." Sorry, I always think of Tevye when I think about the phrase "If I were". Tevye wasn't a rich man, he could only speculate on what it would be like to be one, so he used subjunctive tense. He wasn't rich, but he used good grammar. ETA: I learned subjunctive when I took Spanish in middle school. My English grammar classes barely gave it a nod. YES! You took the words right out of my mouth! My children have been corrected on using "if I were..." since they were toddlers. Taught them that portion of the song to remind them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CookieMonster Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 This is one of the reasons I just cannot fathom why certain unnamed people poo-poo grammar as useless. I was never taught grammar beyond nouns, verbs, and adjectives. Then I had to take a foreign language in high school. I. Was. So. Lost. Says the teacher, "Ok, today we're talking about how the definite article changes when you are using a direct object." I had no clue what a definite article was. I certainly couldn't have found a direct object if my life depended on it. And I scored very, very well on writing exams. I knew enough intuitive grammar to write my language well enough. But, intuitive grammar isn't enough! If (or maybe when) the teacher had gotten to subjunctive case, I would have been just as lost. Thanks for the mini-gramar lesson today. I'm filing it away in my brain. (Not exactly on topic, just had to throw my two cents in...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen in NS Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 This is one of the reasons I just cannot fathom why certain unnamed people poo-poo grammar as useless. I was never taught grammar beyond nouns, verbs, and adjectives. Then I had to take a foreign language in high school. I. Was. So. Lost. Says the teacher, "Ok, today we're talking about how the definite article changes when you are using a direct object." I had no clue what a definite article was. I certainly couldn't have found a direct object if my life depended on it. And I scored very, very well on writing exams. I knew enough intuitive grammar to write my language well enough. But, intuitive grammar isn't enough! If (or maybe when) the teacher had gotten to subjunctive case, I would have been just as lost. Thanks for the mini-gramar lesson today. I'm filing it away in my brain. (Not exactly on topic, just had to throw my two cents in...) Ditto for me, on everything she said! :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cathmom Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Foreign language teachers get very annoyed with English teachers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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