I'm baaack (humbled and needing help)

[Sparky]

I bought TWTM when my daughter was about six (1999). We followed the program mostly and she tested at 10th grade reading level in the first grade (and several grade levels above in other subjects). My son, who is 13 months younger, was doing first grade math along with her and doing well.

 

Fast forward to today (without all the "life" drama)...

 

They are both back home now and let's just say we have the "home" part of the program down, but not the "schooling."

 

My daughter is 15 and in 10th grade. I recently brought her home from public school--a few weeks shy of completing Algebra II, English Lit and Physical Science. Is there any way to "test out" of those subjects or try to complete them without re-doing the entire subjects? Then we can move on to the next.

 

She's so smart (formerly "gifted") and yet is not interested in graduating early or pushing herself. She's currently unmotivated. Her social life has been her priority (to the detriment of her gpa).

 

There's so much more to say, but this is a good start. I need to help my daughter succeed, but feel I have totally let her down so far.

 

Thanks for your time.

[Sharon in MD]

 

They are both back home now and let's just say we have the "home" part of the program down, but not the "schooling."

 

My daughter is 15 and in 10th grade. I recently brought her home from public school--a few weeks shy of completing Algebra II, English Lit and Physical Science. Is there any way to "test out" of those subjects or try to complete them without re-doing the entire subjects? Then we can move on to the next.

 

She's so smart (formerly "gifted") and yet is not interested in graduating early or pushing herself. She's currently unmotivated. Her social life has been her priority (to the detriment of her gpa).

 

There's so much more to say, but this is a good start. I need to help my daughter succeed, but feel I have totally let her down so far.

 

Thanks for your time.

 

Perhaps if you could clarify a couple things it would help. Did you just bring them home now, at the start of the spring semester? Did they both do roughly half a year at their previous schools or are you on a different schedule?

 

You don't mention particular needs for your son, so I'm guessing the main concern is getting your dd on track. Is that right? Did she come home willingly or was this more of an intervention brought about by concerns you have about her grades and study habits (or social habits as it were)? If she is still allowed to be part of her old social group, perhaps you could tie opportunities to spend time with her friends to meeting specific study goals. That is what we do around here....work first, play second. If the work isn't done, or can't be finished after the activity (later that night), then he doesn't get to go to whatever it is. Since my ds is a senior, I try to give him some flexibility in meeting those goals, but I was more strict when he was younger. He polices himself pretty well now, but it took time for him to learn it.

 

Advice for what to do abut Al II, Lit and Physical science, in my opinion depends on where you really are in the school year and how you will show this year on her transcripts. What do you have record wise from her old school? Will you be using an oversight academy or doing this on your own? Is the intention to finish high school at home now? That would also make a difference. Did she have good mastery of the material up to the point you brought her home, or do you need to do some remediation?

 

Give us a bit more info and I'm sure you'll get lots of great help.

 

You can do it!

[Sparky]

Thanks for replying :).

 

My son is in 8th grade (7th for Math & Language Arts).

 

I brought my daughter home in October. She was on a block schedule, so one semester is considered a whole year. She was failing Algebra II (for the second time). She was late a lot for that class and would have failed it just for attendance. It was a good thing to bring her home. She has "lost" many of her friends, who weren't good for her anyway. She has become more involved with family and her health has improved since she's getting enough rest.

 

She came home willingly, but wants to go back next year for social reasons. She's not very self-disciplined. I would love it if she would NEVER go back to that school. It's just not a good school or environment, and the private schools around here are expensive and elitist (we tried one for three years and it was not a good fit).

 

Finally, the school will not show those subjects on her transcript since they were incomplete. I don't know about an oversite school. I guess that's a possibility. Or I could do a transcript for 10th grade (we have to do other subjects as well).

 

Thanks again.

[Pamela H in Texas]

If she came home in Oct and was failing, I'd do the Algebra II over. If failure is due to the subject content, she may need to get foundational skills up to par. She may need some pre-algebra (basic/intermediate math) and Algebra I in order to be successful with Algebra II. It seems unlikely that failure is solely because of behavioral/social issues just because a child who has been through it twice, especially if gifted, would pick it up. How are her test grades? If her grade is failing because of lack of homework and such but test grades are good, that would be different. Maybe you could pick a program and test through chapters til you find one she makes under 85 or 90% and start there in the text.

 

Of course, then there is a behavioral problem to deal with.

 

As for literature...she did half a credit worth? Give her half a credit or do another half credit worth (possibly over the semester like schools not on a block schedule do). Generally, in high schools, literature is done as part of English and as an elective. So you'd just be using it as the elective and a half credit is fine for an elective.

 

For physical science....generally physical science is intro to physics and intro to chemistry. Do you know which half she did in school? You could simply do the other to give her full credit.

 

Thing is, if she goes back to school, the school isn't likely to give her credit for any of this unless you do it through an accredited program (in which case, she'd have to do the full work that program requires). That will create quite an issue for you for all the subjects you do this semester.

 

HTHs a little,

[Storm Bay]

Thanks for replying :).

 

My son is in 8th grade (7th for Math & Language Arts).

 

I brought my daughter home in October. She was on a block schedule, so one semester is considered a whole year. She was failing Algebra II (for the second time). She was late a lot for that class and would have failed it just for attendance. It was a good thing to bring her home. She has "lost" many of her friends, who weren't good for her anyway. She has become more involved with family and her health has improved since she's getting enough rest.

 

She came home willingly, but wants to go back next year for social reasons. She's not very self-disciplined. I would love it if she would NEVER go back to that school. It's just not a good school or environment, and the private schools around here are expensive and elitist (we tried one for three years and it was not a good fit).

 

Finally, the school will not show those subjects on her transcript since they were incomplete. I don't know about an oversite school. I guess that's a possibility. Or I could do a transcript for 10th grade (we have to do other subjects as well).

 

Thanks again.

 

 

Your dd sounds similar to what I was like, although I never was actually failing a course. School was mind boggling boring most of the time and I couldn't see the point. A great read is Gifted Grownups because in the first part the author does a great job in showing that gifted highschoolers fall into 3 main categories. I was completely the independent type. I one received a P for an Algebra course in which I had an A average because I skipped fifty percent of the classes, so you can see I've personally btdt. I had a class I would have failed once had it not been a dual history/geography class because the geography teacher was rude and I refused to attend his class. My A in history covered it for a P (same year, btw--I was in grade 10--aka Sophomore in the States) School was definitely social for me. I had a bad attitude, and it wasn't totally my doing (long story not important for this post.)

 

I had little self-discipline by then in most areas--I only worked hard if I loved it. My eldest has little self-discipline when it comes to getting all her subjects done without lollygagging, so I have to continually get her back on track. It can take her all day to get it done, and she's had days where it took all day to get Algebra done and she's good at it (she's also going through puberty, though, so has other factors going on). I don't have to check her work once it's done most of the time, because she's honest about what she's done and reworks her math to be sure she did it right.

 

I suggest you do try giving final exams in these courses so she can see where she stands. If she aces them, they're too easy for her and may be boring her to tears. If she does poorly, you have what you need to show her she needs to do the work. I plan to grant credits based on mastery, not time, as I think time alone means nothing. I also plan to put that into the transcript or wherever it is I need to put that.

 

I do want to say that I did graduate, and have 2 bachelor's degrees (change of plan after I got my first one). I do know how to work now, although some days, like today, I am guilty of procrastinating. In fact, I'm going to sign off after this post and get back to my work!

[lwilliams1922]

my dd 8th grade went to private school from k-7.

She always tested well above grade level in all subjects but math.

 

I took her out abrubtly last spring when I realized it wasnt working.

she had made some poor social choices and her lack of organization caused her grades to sufffer.

 

I took her out at the end of the 3rd quarter. i gave her a CAT test and had her take the SAT to get a baseline of where we were starting. On paper I continued the classes she was taking in school but in reality we focused on math for that last quarter. She was not even close to understanding anything that was covered the last 3 years of math in school.

 

I went back about 3 years of math using a MUS which is a much better fit for her. This year we started with a more classical course selection. She does well with the material after intially whining quite a bit about missing her friends.

 

Now days she doesnt complain much as we do a lot more of her favorites (reading and writing). The math is coming along and we should be caught up at the end of the year.

 

I recently did another CAT and had her take the PSAT. Her scores went up signicantly in both.

 

I have her participate in activities outside of the home but she still tends to want to connect with some of the friends from her old school. She can have time to connect with them in person, phone or internet AFTER her daily work is complete.

 

DD is not very self motivated or aogranized but that is what we will be working on. Fortunatly she has her sights set on top colleges. It looks like she will have a good shot based on standardized test scores but her course grades right now depend on me policing her to get her work done.

 

I'll start contacting schools so she can hear first hand what she needs to do to get in.

 

I only wish I started home schooling sooner but we'll make the best of what time we have. Look for a homeschool support group in your state, the can be a big help in your documentation requirements.

 

hth

[bettyandbob]

It seems unlikely that failure is solely because of behavioral/social issues just because a child who has been through it twice, especially if gifted, would pick it up.

HTHs a little,

 

I gotta disagree with this statement. Our local school district has a policy 3- unexcused absences = F. 3 unexcused tardies = 1 unexcused absence, so 9 unexcused tardies = F. So, a student who has learned the material can fail. Especially if that student is more interested in the social aspects of school and as a result is frequently late or skips class on occasion. My neighbor failed a quarter for this reason (her problem was depression not social, though). My ds is in danger of failing for this reason (one more tardy and two weeks left in the quarter). His problem is first period and leaving the house on time to get to school on time (and I refuse to rescue him from himself).

 

OK. Algebra 2 is foundational, so I see nothing wrong with repeating. If you are going to be teaching the math, I would recommend finding a good Algebra 2 book. I would assign Chapter tests before teaching. If your dd gets a 95% on the Chapter test, then I'd move to the next chapter.

[Storm Bay]

I gotta disagree with this statement. Our local school district has a policy 3- unexcused absences = F. 3 unexcused tardies = 1 unexcused absence, so 9 unexcused tardies = F. So, a student who has learned the material can fail. Especially if that student is more interested in the social aspects of school and as a result is frequently late or skips class on occasion.

 

:iagree:It's like this in many places now. They didn't have that rule when I was having my problems, which is why I graduated with a B average even though I didn't study or do all of my work, and I certainly didn't attend enough classes. This is one of the reasons I prefer homeschooling; kids can work on their level and you don't have to simply put in hours for the sake of meeting rules (our state has a yearly hours requirement, but case law allows for learning in many categories, not just sit at the table stuff.)

 

Social reasons were some of my big problems at school--I liked to hang out with my friends and had a great deal of verbal abuse from the bullies, so it was bad both ways. Not that my friends were bad at all once I was in grade 10, and they were all doing their studying and homework.

[Sharon in MD]

 

I brought my daughter home in October. She was on a block schedule, so one semester is considered a whole year. She was failing Algebra II (for the second time). She was late a lot for that class and would have failed it just for attendance. It was a good thing to bring her home. She has "lost" many of her friends, who weren't good for her anyway. She has become more involved with family and her health has improved since she's getting enough rest.

 

She came home willingly, but wants to go back next year for social reasons. She's not very self-disciplined. I would love it if she would NEVER go back to that school. It's just not a good school or environment, and the private schools around here are expensive and elitist (we tried one for three years and it was not a good fit).

 

Finally, the school will not show those subjects on her transcript since they were incomplete. I don't know about an oversite school. I guess that's a possibility. Or I could do a transcript for 10th grade (we have to do other subjects as well).

 

 

 

I think one of the first things you need to figure out is whether you need to be prepared to put her back in school next year or not. Different states/areas have differing requirements for students entering from homeschool. If your dd's school would allow her to test to show that she had earned/completed the credits for the courses which are incomplete from the fall, then you probably would want to remediate the Al II quickly so that she could progress to the next course in the fall. But, that said, you may want to contact the school and find out what their requirements are so that you can be prepared. It may also be the case that they won't accept what you do at home, as I heard others here talk about, in which case you may find that she suddenly doesn't want to go back anymore since she would be pushed back a grade. (which could work to your advantage ;))

 

I think I'd try to work on getting her to like the idea of staying home. It is so much easier to work on behavior issue and develop our kids personal sense of responsibility from home, at least I think so. I know the public school in my town is pretty horrible and I would move heaven and earth if possible to keep my son out of there....actually it has a bad enough reputation that it was an excellent threat for us.....you know along the lines of "Shape up or that is where you are going!" Not very nice of me, but it worked.

 

Seriously though, you have lots of good programs to choose from for the Al II, and the idea of testing out of Chapters is a great one....that way you can find out where the level of mastery ends and start from there.

 

On the literature, can you find out what remained to be read in the course? You could get any remaining titles or a copy of the text book if they used an anthology (probably used cheap on-line). It probably would not be hard to tie that one up. Same for physical science, find out what text they used and buy a copy on line, or just get a different text and check the table of contents of the old course to see what remains to be covered. Our oversight academy requires completion of a minimum of 3/4th of a standard high school text for credit. This allows for the fact that most teachers will skip some of the material. Unfortunately though, none of this means the school will accept it for readmission.

 

The Al II is most likely to be your hardest obstacle to conquer since she was doing poorly, but it probably wouldn't be too hard to finish up the other two. I'd knock those out and then decide what else to pursue. But, it might take the rest of the school year to fix the Al II, depending on how bad it really is.

[Pamela H in Texas]

so 9 unexcused tardies = F. So, a student who has learned the material can fail.

 

Which is why I further asked about her test scores. A student who is tardy, refusing to do homework, etc might fail, but a student who knows the material, will at least past the tests. If she isn't consistently scoring high there, then she needs to retake the course, possibly by testing out of some of it if she is able.

[Jean in Wisc]

 

My daughter is 15 and in 10th grade. I recently brought her home from public school--a few weeks shy of completing Algebra II, English Lit and Physical Science. Is there any way to "test out" of those subjects or try to complete them without re-doing the entire subjects? Then we can move on to the next.

 

She's so smart (formerly "gifted") and yet is not interested in graduating early or pushing herself. She's currently unmotivated. Her social life has been her priority (to the detriment of her gpa).

 

I have not read the rest of the comments but here are my thoughts:

 

My son is doing Chemistry this year--and was doing a chapter a day. If your dd is bright, she could rapidly read the chapter of her physical science text and take the test (she should have already done the labs). When she gets to something new, she could slow down and study it. She should be able to do this in Math as well--get a text, have her read the chapters and do a few problems (as needed) and then take the test--usually there are no more than 10 chapters--if she can do a chapter in a couple of days, she could be up to speed before the end of the month in all her classes and moving forward from where she needs to pick up.

 

English--well, what did she do? Does she have papers written, books read, etc? Include those for your list of work done and add to it, giving her a final grade for her work.

 

Perhaps this is more than you want to do, but it would be a way of checking on her knowledge and fill in any gaps as well as get through the book at a rapid pace.

 

Oh--and her not wanting to rush through the work--well, I think maturity when going to college is no bad thing! My friend always says, "Do high school in high school and college in college." That may not be the "right" thing for all children, but it certainly fits my children's needs. It gives them time to be kids--and to pursue other interests.

 

HTH,

Jean

Edited January 6, 2009 by Jean in Wisc

[Storm Bay]

If your dd is bright, she could rapidly read the chapter of her physical science text and take the test (she should have already done the labs). When she gets to something new, she could slow down and study it. She should be able to do this in Math as well--get a text, have her read the chapters and do a few problems (as needed) and then take the test--

 

This is a great idea, especially if she learns well by reading. My 13 yo has been learing math by reading the text since she came home from 0s at 8. Some texts seem to work better for this than others.

 

Oh--and her not wanting to rush through the work--well, I think maturity when going to college in no bad thing! My friend always says, "Do high school in high school and college in college." That may not be the "right" thing for all children, but it certainly fits my children's needs. It gives them time to be kids--and to pursue other interests.

 

HTH,

Jean

 

:iagree: I have one who just loathes school and is a professional lollygagger (okay, if lollygagging were a profession, she'd be perfect for it.) She was a grade ahead, but it was clear that she is not on track to be mature enough to handle university at 17, so she's doing an 8/9 year in between gr 8 & 9 before starting high school. I had one brother barely scrape through his first year of university due to immaturity (party animal, but smart enough not to flunk out.) He's a fall baby and our cut off was Dec 31, which works for many, but not for him maturity wise (but better for him in high school academically, though).

[Sparky]

Thanks. You've given me a lot to think about. I'm not sure what we're going to do yet. I REALLY appreciate your input.

[Sparky]

Wow! Thanks. Sounds like you truly understand her. I'm encouraged by your post. I'm going to try to find final exams for those subjects and work my way back, if necessary. I hope that someday, she will finish college; though right now, I'll be thankful to make it through 10th grade.

[Sparky]

I don't think I'm replying correctly to the individual posts...they just show up at the end of the thread. Anyway, thanks to everyone. I am SO encouraged by your responses. I have been fighting discouragement over a number of issues and I feel I have found a place of understanding.

 

Thank you...thank you...thank you!!!!!:D

[Storm Bay]

I don't think I'm replying correctly to the individual posts...they just show up at the end of the thread. Anyway, thanks to everyone. I am SO encouraged by your responses. I have been fighting discouragement over a number of issues and I feel I have found a place of understanding.

 

Thank you...thank you...thank you!!!!!:D

 

The easiest way is to click on quote as I just did, and then people can see more easily. You can delete most of the quote, too, if you don't need it. However, people on the threaded mode can tell without that, but I didn't like the threaded mode for other reasons and went back to the regular one.