a PS friend has shocked me today/reason I HS #36(deserves to be #1 today!)

[Tess in the Burbs]

This is a friend I see monthly for a prayer group who works in a public elementary school in a neighboring city I used to live in. I have another friend who also works at this school. while it's a Title I school, I don't consider it a bad part of town/lower income/bad part of town.....so I was shocked to hear the things she shared.

 

We were talking about parenting and it turned to home environment and how she has to teach kids how to behave in her classes at school(language especially). She goes on to tell me about a situation last week in 2nd grade that went way beyond my brain's ability to even believe....

 

2nd grade. 7 and 8 year olds.

 

the teacher took another kid out of the class and these two boys suddenly drop their pants and one goes down on the other. in the classroom full of classmates.

 

:confused::w00t::blink::eek::ack2::ohmy:

 

she goes on to say both have bad home lives and so they most likely are acting out what is happening to them. um ok, but what about all the classroom kids who saw it. who may go act it out on others. or talk about it. she also said she wasn't sure the parents of the students in the class were told.

 

:confused:

 

my kids wouldn't have gone to this school but it's only a few miles from where they could have gone if I were crazy and put them in school!!!

 

I am still sick to my stomach thinking about the horrendous home life children in our world have to experience. :( My kids have never gone to PS...is it really this bad in elementary school????????

[shalom22]

All I can do is :eek:

 

I agree this should be number 1 on the list for reasons to homeschool.

[Mari]

I'm speechless. I haven't heard that story before but I have heard from the kids across the street (2nd-4th grades) that they all have girl/boyfriends and that they french kiss (their words, not mine) during recess while others watch. I'm saddened by the loss of innocence.

 

--Mari

[Michelle in MO]

We live in a small town (pop. 15,000), and I heard a story about an escapade on a local school bus that would turn your hair a different color.

[LBC]

I'm saddened by the loss of innocence.

 

--Mari

 

:iagree:

This is very sad.

 

Lori

[Heather in Neverland]

I work in a public school district and this kind of stuff happens often. Very sad.

[Tess in the Burbs]

Like I said, my kids have always been home...and I have never heard these things before! It's sad to me. I want to let my kids grow up with some kind of innocence! It's so, so sad. And I can't believe I had no clue this is common!

[Ria]

This is terribly sad. You are right - the home lives of many kids are beyond our comprehension. At least we can be thankful that maybe now these kids will get some help (and their familes might be investigated).

 

Ria

[mommaduck]

It was almost that bad in a small town school I went to when I was in 4th grade and had just come back to the states. No surprise here.

[Audrey]

This is a friend I see monthly for a prayer group who works in a public elementary school in a neighboring city I used to live in. I have another friend who also works at this school. while it's a Title I school, I don't consider it a bad part of town/lower income/bad part of town.....so I was shocked to hear the things she shared.

 

We were talking about parenting and it turned to home environment and how she has to teach kids how to behave in her classes at school(language especially). She goes on to tell me about a situation last week in 2nd grade that went way beyond my brain's ability to even believe....

 

2nd grade. 7 and 8 year olds.

 

the teacher took another kid out of the class and these two boys suddenly drop their pants and one goes down on the other. in the classroom full of classmates.

 

:confused::w00t::blink::eek::ack2::ohmy:

 

she goes on to say both have bad home lives and so they most likely are acting out what is happening to them. um ok, but what about all the classroom kids who saw it. who may go act it out on others. or talk about it. she also said she wasn't sure the parents of the students in the class were told.

 

:confused:

 

my kids wouldn't have gone to this school but it's only a few miles from where they could have gone if I were crazy and put them in school!!!

 

I am still sick to my stomach thinking about the horrendous home life children in our world have to experience. :( My kids have never gone to PS...is it really this bad in elementary school????????

 

 

Does someone have the responsibility to report this to Child Services? That's a huge red flag of something very bad, very wrong happening in those children's lives that they would do that.

 

I know it's shocking that kids would do that, but what lies beneath it? All I can think is that someone needs to help those kids. Now.

[Karie]

My sister works for the PS in the suburbs of Jacksonville-so it's not inner city. She was telling me about an 11 year old boy that she had to remove from the school bus because he was drunk (this is in the morning). The parents were notified, but no one came and got him. He slept off a hangover at school in the nurses office. She has told me so many things that shock me, but it is old news for her. Her school is an elementary school in a good part of town, too.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I taught 4th grade over 20 years ago. I had little girls come in crying from recess saying that the boys threatened to r*pe them.

[momof165]

Wow....it's unbelievable what's going on out there. I am speechless! My ds only went to K - so, it's like we are living in a sheltered environment/place and I LIKE IT!!!! At this point, I am just sooooo happy and grateful we can afford to keep ds at home. I just pray dh will keep his job (not sure as of right now). But I know we'll find a way to continue hs.

 

Sonja

___________________________________

Homeschooling JUST ONE - ds 9

[Brindee]

Does someone have the responsibility to report this to Child Services? That's a huge red flag of something very bad, very wrong happening in those children's lives that they would do that.

 

I know it's shocking that kids would do that, but what lies beneath it? All I can think is that someone needs to help those kids. Now.

I totally agree here! I can't believe their parents wouldn't be told and some authority called! It could prevent worse things from happening to these children!

[BlueGator]

Does someone have the responsibility to report this to Child Services? That's a huge red flag of something very bad, very wrong happening in those children's lives that they would do that.

 

I know it's shocking that kids would do that, but what lies beneath it? All I can think is that someone needs to help those kids. Now.

 

I think it is an epidemic that can not be fixed.

 

Those boys have been intensly sexually stimulated or physically abused. There is no one in the PS system that will see a problem with that.

 

German HSers that imigrated to US said several German kindergarden PSs had naked playtime in the back of the kindergarden class. It's a matter of time before this gets main streamed and is a protected right.

[Lux Et Veritas Academy]

I agree this is terrible- My two younger children attend PS 2nd and Pre, my older two are at home- We love their program, it is too bad that these child have lives like this- this is really a home/parenting issue more than anything. This is so sad!

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

I think it is an epidemic that can not be fixed.

 

Those boys have been intensly sexually stimulated or physically abused. There is no one in the PS system that will see a problem with that.

 

German HSers that imigrated to US said several German kindergarden PSs had naked playtime in the back of the kindergarden class. It's a matter of time before this gets main streamed and is a protected right.

 

I would disagree with your third sentence. The majority of those working in and for the public school system will see a problem with that. I'd be more inclined to believe that the opposite is true, that no one in the public school system will find *no* problem with it.

 

As to naked German kindergarten playtime, I'd love to see some citations for that. What are your sources? And are we talking 6 y/o kindergarten or 2 y/o kindergarten? Because I can certainly see tiny children having, say, swim time or water play sans clothing in Germany. There simply would not be a problem with little naked 2 y/o's running around the backyard any more than there's a problem with little naked 2 y/o's at the public lakes and swimming pools over there. And for one thing, kindergartens in Germany are not public schools, so that's one problem with this assertion. I'd be curious as to where you're getting this information.

[asta]

Yes.

 

Kindergarten in Germany is from 3-6, and they are all private. And one thing to consider is that Europeans, in general, are not as flipped out about the human body as Americans are.

 

My son attended German kindergarten. He did indeed have time in his skivvies in the summer when it was really hot outside and they were playing in the sprinklers. In his skivvies. He was never nudie. Neither were any of the other children. But guess what? They ALL were when they changed into their swimsuits for pool time!

 

His class of fifteen kids had two full-time teachers and 2-3 aides who were doing their internships (all female). Each of the other two classrooms had the same ratio. I'm not exactly sure when something weird was going to happen, or how it was either going to a) get past all of those people or b) happen in such a way that all of those people were going to get their stories straight to tell the parents (a bunch of over-protective German mothers), but somehow, my kid survived intact and happy.

 

The same thing for Belgian grade school, where he also changed into his swimming clothes in the classroom.

 

Innocence isn't lost, parenting, and culture, is.

 

 

asta

 

 

ETA: German Homeschoolers? There is no such animal. Homeschooling is illegal in Germany. There are people who have refused to put their children into German schools, and there are people who have removed their children from German schools, but that is all. Just because one does not like a social construct does not mean that one can apply one's own (the American version "homeschooling").

Edited January 4, 2009 by asta

[Lori C- Texas]

The main reason we took our dd out of PS was what she learned at the lunch table in 2nd grade!:blink:

[bettyandbob]

If the teacher says these boys are most likely acting out stuff that happens at home, why are they not reporting it. Teachers are mandatory reporters.

[PrairieAir]

While I would agree that this sort of thing happens too often (Isn't once too often?), I seriously doubt that it is the norm. Yes, it would be upsetting for the children present in that classroom, and I would hope that the school is dealing with this in some way rather than just ignoring that the kids saw it. I say I hope the school is dealing with it because it is their responsibility since it happened there are likely to be parents who will not deal with it at home. While it must be very confusing for those other children, I feel that children who have witnessed something like that and who have a good family environment and parents who will help them deal with what they saw can easily overcome it. It is those two boys that I really worry about. It absolutely breaks my heart to think what sort of things they may have been through already in their young lives.

 

This is not a symptom of what's wrong with the public schools. It is a symptom of what is wrong with some families. The families of the two boys are not the only ones I'm talking about either. What about the families who rely solely on the school to sort this out with their children? There are too many parents who depend on others to do their primary job--and by that I do not mean teaching reading, writing, and arithmetic.

[Joanne]

the teacher took another kid out of the class and these two boys suddenly drop their pants and one goes down on the other. in the classroom full of classmates.

 

 

 

she goes on to say both have bad home lives and so they most likely are acting out what is happening to them. um ok, but what about all the classroom kids who saw it. who may go act it out on others. or talk about it. she also said she wasn't sure the parents of the students in the class were told.

 

A couple of statements to let you know where I am coming from:

 

My DH is a public school bus driver for elementary and middle school students.

 

I work in a public school (before and after school, taking care of 25+ average public school kids).

 

I am usually one of the first to jump on the "anti public school" bus on this board.

 

That said......

 

It's not uncommon or unexpected for elementary males to show their parts. Boys stay in a long "potty" fascination stage.

 

The "going down on".......well, I would not conclude that it is "happening to them at home - or elsewhere". Statistically, it's much more likely they were exposed to media that was not appropriate in print, computer, walking in on parents, etc. Over exposure to inappropriate media is, IMO, abuse but I would not jump to the "molestation" conclusion.

 

All adults affiliated should have been talked to.

[swellmomma]

This is not a symptom of what's wrong with the public schools. It is a symptom of what is wrong with some families. The families of the two boys are not the only ones I'm talking about either. What about the families who rely solely on the school to sort this out with their children? There are too many parents who depend on others to do their primary job--and by that I do not mean teaching reading, writing, and arithmetic.

 

ITA! And despite the fact this occured in a ps classroom does not mean that by keeping your kids out of ps will prevent exposre to this crap. If that was the case my dd would not have been assualted by another child at summer camp. If parents did their jobs and raised these children properly instead of passing the buck all the time, there would not be incidents like this at all, whether in the classroom, the playground or at summer camp.

[Tree House Academy]

My oldest ds attended ps in a SMALL town for almost 3 years. While he was there, he was told in graphic detail by a little boy with a "bad home life" how his dad beat his mom until she was bleeding and the police came and took his dad away. He had a bully that told him he would bring a gun to school and kill my son (principal thought this was rubbish as he was only 8 years old, so she IGNORED it. This was the year we pulled him out, BTW). When I substituted at the elem school (same one my son attended), the principal's son had a habit of kissing the girls on the playground...with his tongue...and he was in 1st grade at the time.

 

Other incidents include a fist fight that later involved the use of chairs between two 5th graders, a girl being molested on the school bus by her classmate - this little girl is still in ps too BTW.

 

It is a sad, sad, sad, world out there. :(

[Renee in NC]

ITA! And despite the fact this occured in a ps classroom does not mean that by keeping your kids out of ps will prevent exposre to this crap. If that was the case my dd would not have been assualted by another child at summer camp. If parents did their jobs and raised these children properly instead of passing the buck all the time, there would not be incidents like this at all, whether in the classroom, the playground or at summer camp.

 

:iagree:

 

You can't blame this on ps. Earlier this year, a homeschool Mom and Dad (real homeschoolers - not those who say they are but are not) tied their 13yo ds to a TREE and left him there for 24 hours or so. He died from heat stroke.

 

We get in an uproar when things like that are attributed to homeschooling. It wasn't the fault of homeschooling - it was terrible parenting and abuse. The 2 second graders did not do this because of ps - they did it because of exposure to something outside of school (most likely.)

[mcconnellboys]

About three to four years ago, we had a branch of our library system open up in an area where a lot of migrant workers and other transients live. The school system for that area was the one originally slated for my neighborhood, as well, because it was newer and they were trying to integrate kids from different socioeconomic groups together for a while (that has now ended due to protests).

 

The librarians are all native speakers of Spanish or very fluent in Spanish. We began attending classes there because one of them was homeschooling (Dad was home) at the time and was able to form a hs Spanish class for younger children during the day, when that branch was otherwise pretty empty. They also set up some other group activities that mostly drew on homeschoolers in the evenings, etc. We did some volunteer homework help after school there, etc. So, we were there quite a bit during the week at various times of day.

 

We noticed that as they got geared up, they began putting tighter and tighter controls on the computers available for use there. In the room for teens and adults, they even placed a person sitting facing the room to constantly monitor the screens. They finally locked down the children's computers to just a few games that they selected that were appropriate for play.

 

When we asked about what we were seeing, we were told that pornography has become so rampant among lower socioeconomic groups of people that even pre-school age children are exposed to high levels of it. We were told that it has become so prevalent because it is often just more prevalent on television, not everyone knows how to - or can pay the extra for sources to - control child access; children are often left alone for some period of time at home while parents are still working; adults in the home might be watching after they get home and the homes are so small that the children really cannot be shielded from it, etc.

 

We have neighbors who send their children to a Spanish immersion (public) school here in town. Both children have entered the middle school as of this year and the younger child has always been more sensitive to outside influences. I dread what is to come as they play with my younger son, who is also more sensitive to following the lead of all the older boys around him.

 

The younger son has already caused a problem for us, introducing my son last summer to inappropriate tv viewing which I just found out about only a month or so ago. Can we all say tomato staking? My husband and I are both keeping him close at hand in order to hopefully counteract any damage that might already have been done.

 

My older son - less than six years his senior - never had this sort of issue arise during his younger years. It's incredible to me how quickly things can change and evil can creep in.

OY, the world we live in is fraught with dangers - even when we homeschool our children....

[BabyBre]

Speechless.

 

I knew I shouldn't have read this one, but I thought I may have heard it all. I have to admit, I gasped when I read that line!

 

My precious babies are in public elementary school (one in 2nd grade) and that's why I'm physically there, in their classrooms or wherever they are more often than not.

[Desert Rat]

This is so sad. While I think that most schools probably aren't THAT bad, I feel just awful for those little boys and what they must have to deal with in their lives outside of school.

We live in a city with poor public school funding and our area isn't the greatest. I choose not to send my kids to school for many reasons but this one had never, ever crossed my mind.

I hope those little ones get the help they need.

[stripe]

I agree that keeping your kids out of school doesn't totally protect them; I have seen a naked man fondling himself on the street while driving along with my mother (not to be confused with the one who exposed himself to us when I was a kid), and she saw another naked man out for a jog, so go figure.

[4summergirls]

Wow, I'm shocked and sickened, and I guess naive. I had heard of these types of incidents on buses at middle/high school level but such a young age is unbelievable. Fall of Rome, anyone?

 

My heart goes out to those boys and all children that are suffering from such horrible abuse and neglect. I will keep praying...

[PollyOR]

I feel ill. :(

 

It's not just schools.

 

DH and his siblings have what I consider to be a great family (all college educated, loving parents, etc.). These are people I trust. BUT, in the past year, I have had to keep a close eye on my kids. What some of the teen cousins are learning in school, they are sharing with my kids.

 

We reserve a campground each year for a family reunion. I've always let my kids roam free. This past year was a pain because I had to keep track of who my kids were with. A bunch of the teens piled in a van to watch a movie and I was the "bad guy" because I wouldn't let my kids go in there.

[LibraryLover]

The secoind year we hs'd, one of my children, along with several other hsers, was sexually harassed at a hsing coop meeting and on the internet during a closed IM session with local and known hsers.

 

I have no idea why people think hs families would be immune to our culture. The teen who was responsible had never attended school in his life.

[BlueGator]

Yes.

Kindergarten in Germany is from 3-6, and they are all private. And one thing to consider is that Europeans, in general, are not as flipped out about the human body as Americans are.

 

 

I think it is shocking when the behavior described by the op is no longer shocking.

 

Yes.

My son attended German kindergarten. He did indeed have time in his skivvies in the summer when it was really hot outside and they were playing in the sprinklers. In his skivvies. He was never nudie. Neither were any of the other children. But guess what? They ALL were when they changed into their swimsuits for pool time!

 

His class of fifteen kids had two full-time teachers and 2-3 aides who were doing their internships (all female). Each of the other two classrooms had the same ratio. I'm not exactly sure when something weird was going to happen, or how it was either going to a) get past all of those people or b) happen in such a way that all of those people were going to get their stories straight to tell the parents (a bunch of over-protective German mothers), but somehow, my kid survived intact and happy.

 

The same thing for Belgian grade school, where he also changed into his swimming clothes in the classroom.

 

Innocence isn't lost, parenting, and culture, is.

 

 

I wasn't describing sprinkler time and changing into swim suits. I was referencing a German Homeschool family that had come to America to escape persecution from the German authorities. Also, I am of German descent so it doesn't become a racial issue.

 

 

Yes.

ETA: German Home schoolers? There is no such animal. Homeschooling is illegal in Germany.

 

True, families are under persecution for trying to keep their children out of the German PS schools for these reasons.

 

Yes.

ETA: German Home schoolers? There is no such animal. Homeschooling is illegal in Germany. There are people who have refused to put their children into German schools, and there are people who have removed their children from German schools, but that is all. Just because one does not like a social construct does not mean that one can apply one's own (the American version "homeschooling").

 

I was not applying an American version, I was only referencing an article I had read and my opinion that it was an accepted in places, specifically German kindergartens. I'm sorry if I offended you, maybe the families that emigrated here were lying about the German kindergardens & PS schools that they come from.

 

I've been following their stories in the news during 2007 and 2008 and have never met the families. They didn't seem like "religious zealots" if that is what you meant by American version of homeschooling.

Edited January 4, 2009 by BlueGator

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

I think it is shocking when the behavior described by the op is no longer shocking.

 

 

 

 

But Pam, nobody is saying that the behavior isn't shocking. Who said that? Who, even in the school, said that? The behavior is horrifying.

 

That's what I'm not understanding, folks who are saying, "Yes, that's just business as usual in 2nd grade classes the nation over." I just do not accept that this is normal behavior in the typical public school.

 

--------

 

The thing is, kindergartens in Germany are not public. And so nothing that goes on in a private kindergarten would become national policy. So I'm not sure, again, where they are getting the idea to say something like you said in your first post.

 

Not saying they are lying. But I do know people who think water play in underpants is equal to nakedness. My parents would have thought so, which is why I swam in cullottes and a shirt and full underclothes well into my teens. They did describe beach and pool going as promoting nudity. So while certainly they would not be lying, I can see them describing their own reality and interpreting what they saw according to their own mores. I can see them having a problem with the local lakes and pools, what with the naked preschoolers running around without anyone blinking an eye.

 

So. I dunno. I think we might be talking past each other here.

[Peek a Boo]

I have no idea why people think hs families would be immune to our culture. The teen who was responsible had never attended school in his life.

 

I know that homeschoolers aren't immune to this. But i also know that by homeschooling the instances of this type of exposure to such negative socialiaztion is drastically reduced. Which is--YES-- the #1 reason I homeschool.

 

And I'd bet ya a dollar that the parents of kids that saw the OP's incident don't find out from school authorities giving them a friendly heads up.

[BlueGator]

I read The Well Trained Mind when I was considering PS vs HSing. The first chapter by Jesse Wise resonated with things I had seen and heard for years in the PS system.

 

Here read the first chapter:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0393047520/ref=sib_dp_ptu#

 

I am not anti PS teacher or PS student. I am strongly support education.

I think the PS system is broken because things like the Columbine school shootings, and inappropriate relationships with Teacher - Students, and peer pressure bulling that have been in the national news.

 

If the original poster's HSing #1 reason to HS are offensive, then I too must apologize for HSing, supporting HSing and HSing parents because of what I've seen in the PS systems.

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

I read The Well Trained Mind when I was considering PS vs HSing. The first chapter by Jesse Wise resonated with things I had seen and heard for years in the PS system.

 

Here read the first chapter:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0393047520/ref=sib_dp_ptu#

 

I am not anti PS teacher or PS student. I am strongly support education.

I think the PS system is broken because things like the Columbine school shootings, and inappropriate relationships with Teacher - Students, and peer pressure bulling that have been in the national news.

 

If the original poster's HSing #1 reason to HS are offensive, then I too must apologize for HSing, supporting HSing and HSing parents because of what I've seen in the PS systems.

 

Why in the world would you apologize for homeschooling, even if someone else's reason was offensive to someone?

 

I think the OP should be thankful her kids are not in that school. Dang, I would be. And I've yanked my kid out of a public school that was underperforming, and I've removed them from home school when it was no longer meeting their needs for one reason or another. But never did I feel a need to apologize for it, no matter what another person's reasons for doing or not doing what I did were.

 

I applaud your choices, if that helps at all.

[LibraryLover]

I know that homeschoolers aren't immune to this. But i also know that by homeschooling the instances of this type of exposure to such negative socialiaztion is drastically reduced. Which is--YES-- the #1 reason I homeschool.

 

And I'd bet ya a dollar that the parents of kids that saw the OP's incident don't find out from school authorities giving them a friendly heads up.

 

 

My child who was harassed was in school for four years without any issue of this sort. Within 8 months of hsing, a teen hser was the culprit and the parent was all 'boys will be boys'. So naturally, I disagree with you.

 

Further, it was also a "christian' (different) hsing family who called my child a 'chink'.

Edited January 5, 2009 by LibraryLover

[Mari]

Aw, come on guys...can't we just gasp about the OP's reason for starting this thread and join her in thanking our lucky stars we have the freedom to HS in the first place?

 

Yes, incidents like this (and some worse even) happen all the time around PS. We're naive in thinking it doesn't. But, as others have posted, the schools are not the root cause of the problem but they do perpetuate the problem just by their very structure. Teachers are educators, not baby sitters. Many of our classrooms are overcrowded. They cannot always monitor every. single. kid. or situation. Sadly, many parents rely on them to do so and are shocked when incidents such as this occur.

 

--Mari

[jojomojo]

 

2nd grade. 7 and 8 year olds.

 

the teacher took another kid out of the class and these two boys suddenly drop their pants and one goes down on the other. in the classroom full of classmates.

 

:confused::w00t::blink::eek::ack2::ohmy:

 

she goes on to say both have bad home lives and so they most likely are acting out what is happening to them. um ok, but what about all the classroom kids who saw it. who may go act it out on others. or talk about it. she also said she wasn't sure the parents of the students in the class were told.

 

:confused:

 

 

 

I saw this exact same thing once, it still haunts me. Instead of 7/8 yr olds, it was 4/5 yr olds. It was at a university day care, not PS though. I popped my head out of the door to the playground to say something to the person on duty out there and these boys were right by the door, right in my face. I talked to the head director and she told me its perfectly natural - kids are curious, they want to know what things feel like in their mouth, etc, etc :blink: One boy had a questionable homelife (the initiator), the other did not. And I'm certain the parents were never told - I have a feeling the mom of the other boy would have yanked her son (and 2 yr old dd) out of there that day.

[Peek a Boo]

My child who was harassed was in school for four years without any issue of this sort. Within 8 months of hsing, a teen hser was the culprit and the parent was all 'boys will be boys'. So naturally, I disagree with you.

 

Further, it was also a "christian' (different) hsing family who called my child a 'chink'.

 

 

I would agree w/ your assessment of harassment in the homeschool community vs the public school community were it not for the loads of evidence by the media, parents, and school studies/reports themselves showing otherwise.

 

I'm glad your child was never exposed to any negative issues in the public schools. A look at the track record of public schools shows that is a rare exception.

 

and Mari, I don't think we're "getting ugly" just because we are willing to look at what the totality of facts shows us over the years. It's a discussion board --people will disagree :)

[Highereducation]

Apparently the BBC is doing a segment on a similar topic, taking a look at exactly what is going on when British children are in school:

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1105262/Children-aged-FIVE-expelled-sex-offences-girls-molested-classmates-School-bullying-takes-shocking-twist.html

 

Disheartening, to say the least.

[LibraryLover]

I would agree w/ your assessment of harassment in the homeschool community vs the public school community were it not for the loads of evidence by the media, parents, and school studies/reports themselves showing otherwise.

 

I'm glad your child was never exposed to any negative issues in the public schools. A look at the track record of public schools shows that is a rare exception.

 

and Mari, I don't think we're "getting ugly" just because we are willing to look at what the totality of facts shows us over the years. It's a discussion board --people will disagree :)

 

If we are looking at statistics, most children are abused in their own homes, by people who are related to them, not in schools or by schools. Even if we look at some hsing communtities, for instance, LDS compound raids this past year, and yes I get that they are not representative of LDS, we can see abuse. Does that mean that most hsing families abuse their kids? Of course not.

 

We know it's not because they are hs'd. Public school children do not get to choose their parents any more than hs'd kids can choose theirs.

 

I agree, sharing opinions, is not 'getting ugly'.

 

I agree that many public schools are not working well. But I see so many families that are simply not working well or at all.

Edited January 5, 2009 by LibraryLover

[Mari]

and Mari, I don't think we're "getting ugly" just because we are willing to look at what the totality of facts shows us over the years. It's a discussion board --people will disagree :)

 

This is a good topic. Many of us are questioning whether we should ever put our kids in PS. I'm definitely NOT a moderator but my comment was only intended to perhaps keep us on the topic and not get too argumentative. Sharing opinions is a good thing and of course people will disagree. I just noticed a tad bit of disrespect in some of the replies, that's all.

 

BTW, the "totality of facts" that some have seen over the years does not include the "totality of facts" witnessed by others. This thread, I thought, was about reasons to HS and NOT send your kids to PS.

 

--Mari

[hillfarm]

One report from the trenches:

 

My BIL works in a public elementary school. He told me that they now have to assign teachers to be on duty to monitor the KINDERGARTEN restrooms because the children are acting out so many of the sexual situations they have seen on television.

 

He told me the teachers groan when they see something particularly vulgar on tv now, because they know they will have to deal with 5yos trying to immitate it for the next couple of weeks.

 

This is a common place event. The administration has had to take action to try to contain it. BIL says some incident or another gets past them nearly every day. That is NOT where I want my 10 yo dd.

 

We live on a small farm. Dd has known the "facts of life" as they relate to breeding, genetics, and mammalian reproduction since she was two or three. She has helped deliver lambs and calves. She is now aware of human reproduction also, since a couple of aunts have recently had babies (no, she didn't get to help deliver them, much to her dismay). But I will save the aberant sexual behavior for her to learn about until she is old enough to understand it a bit better. For now, I have just told her that some people live like animals in the field and that unfortunately their children learn that kind of behavior and practice it too.

 

And no, it is not okay for little boys to engage in this behavior just because they are curious. Can you say spread of disease? We would swat a pet dog for making advances toward someone's leg. Why can we not expect to train young humans to overcome their inappropriate sexuals urges also?

 

The fact that children are engaging in inappropriate sexual behavior in public school indicates a failure in all of us, our whole society. We have allowed a society where children are exposed to such things via the media and poor parenting is commonly shrugged off as not "my problem". We have permitted an educational system to exist that does not quickly and effectively address such issues. Our apathy merely opens the path for this kind of outrage to happen. Removing my dd from such a system is my first step in acting against this system. Prayer, education of other parents, and political activism are other options.

[Tammyla]

This just saddens my heart to hear a loss of innocence at such a young age is heartbreaking. I do hope the class parents were informed as I'm sure many of the classmates will in some ways be traumatised. I just can't imagine...

[coralloyd]

People say we shelter our children. Darn right I shelter them! Wow, I am so sad for these Children :crying: (the ones who did this and the ones who viewed it). They need to know what true love is. When I read this prayed for them.

[Peek a Boo]

If we are looking at statistics, most children are abused in their own homes, by people who are related to them, not in schools or by schools. Even if we look at some hsing communtities, for instance, LDS compound raids this past year, and yes I get that they are not representative of LDS, we can see abuse. Does that mean that most hsing families abuse their kids? Of course not.

 

We know it's not because they are hs'd. Public school children do not get to choose their parents any more than hs'd kids can choose theirs.

 

I agree that many public schools are not working well. But I see so many families that are simply not working well or at all.

 

I agree --my point wasn't that public school kids are abused "more"-- only that kids who AREN't abused [ok, and already ARE abused] get EXPOSED to the ramifications of that abuse at a higher rate by attending a school setting than by being homeschooled.

[Peek a Boo]

I just noticed a tad bit of disrespect in some of the replies, that's all.

 

BTW, the "totality of facts" that some have seen over the years does not include the "totality of facts" witnessed by others. This thread, I thought, was about reasons to HS and NOT send your kids to PS.

 

i think disrespect is in the eye of the one who feels disrespected ;)

 

and yeah-- the 'totality of facts' is pretty diverse and wide spread. I'm game for researching it all. In the end, the public schools will tend to come out 'worse' simply because of the sheer numbers and teacher/student ratio.

[LibraryLover]

I really don't like to argue with anyone about this sort of thing. I know too many caring parents on both 'sides' -- hs and school --to make generalizations of this nature. I see plenty enough bad parenting in both 'camps'.

 

Hsing works for us. I don't need to see most schoolers as sufferring for this to be right for us. I also know plenty of children with loving parents who are thriving in schools. And when my older chiclren were in school, I never thought badly of hsers. I feel terrible about children being harassed & disrespected anywhere -- and that happens more in children's own homes than anywhere else.