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Christians called to mass exodus from Public Schools...


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I wish the Church would stay out of politics and keep their mouths shut. They hurt all of us, but especially homeschooling Christians when they make public statements like this. It turns us into a bunch of religious "wackos" and makes us look like a cult that needs to be reckoned with. I may not be willing to put my kids in ANY public school, but that doesn't mean I'm going to tell others to pull their kids out based on religious reasons. That goes against the teaching of a personal relationship with Christ, and the sovereignty of a parent's decision regarding what's best for their children.

 

BTW Pam - You're cracking me up:lol:

 

Dorinda

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Wow! I'd love to know where you live...that's definitely not the case with the public schools here--and I live in the so-called "Bible-belt." My friends that are teachers have very strict rules against even mentioning anything Christian related, and they abide by those rules.

 

Oh, they have strict rules here, too, I'm sure. It's more the underlying culture. I've had kids come up to me and ask if I believe in evolution OR if I believe in God.

 

Kids are told by parents it's their job to evangelize to the unbelievers. (This concept is pushed on parents at a couple local mega-churches.)

 

Teachers can't outright teach christianity, but they get their beliefs across. When my older dd did choir as an elective at a ps, they did a "Christmas Concert", not a holiday concert, and almost every single song was Christian. Maybe a couple secular christmas songs like jingle bells, but no songs of other faiths (and there is a jewish community here.) This was because the Choir teacher wanted the concert to be about the birth of christ.

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I wish the Church would stay out of politics and keep their mouths shut.

 

Dorinda

 

Why? Why should the church stay out of politics? This is where there is a mis understanding over separation of church and state. There was never an intent to keep church out of politics. Separation of church and state is for the prevention of the state getting into the church's business. The church has every right to inform their congregation on the dangers of whatever it is out there whether it be movies, tv or public schools.

 

I am a conservation Christian and I am so glad this article was put out!!

 

Holly

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Well...that is interesting.

 

It is articles like this that proclaim to have all the answers to make people better Christians, that alienate people and cause non-Christians to want to stay far away.

 

Nakia,

another conservative Christian

 

But why? The actions of a fringe group shouldn't lead to an indictment against an entire extremely varied population unless you're already disposed to prejudicial feelings against that population. I think these fringe groups are an excuse, not a reason, for people to unleash their anti-Christian feelings.

 

Zelda, a non-Christian

Edited by Zelda
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But why? The actions of a fringe group shouldn't lead to an indictment against an entire extremely varied population unless you're already disposed to prejudicial feelings against that population. I think these fringe groups are an excuse, not a reason, for people to unleash their anti-Christian feelings.

 

yup.

 

After 9/11, even Bush wasn't stupid enough to stand up on a podium and say to the Muslim community-- "see? it's stuff like this that makes people shy away from Islam."

No--he rightly put the blame on the fringe individuals and gave voice to the core tenets of Islam instead.

 

but we still see huge sects of the population indict all Muslims because of some wacko suicide murderers/ fanatics who behead people while being videotaped.

 

and this "fringe group" of Christians in the OP article isn't even out to murder anyone.

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I remember coming across an article like this when I was a young teen and being fascinated. My father's response: "Again?" I saw an article like this when my oldest was born, too. When I clicked through, I looked immediately at the date, expecting this to be an old message resurfaced because of tagging.

 

The Southern Baptist Convention has voted down the pull-kids-out-of-public-schools resolution for several years now beginning in 2004. There may have even been an earlier version of same resolution. I'm not sure.

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I wish the Church would stay out of politics and keep their mouths shut. They hurt all of us, but especially homeschooling Christians when they make public statements like this. It turns us into a bunch of religious "wackos" and makes us look like a cult that needs to be reckoned with. I may not be willing to put my kids in ANY public school, but that doesn't mean I'm going to tell others to pull their kids out based on religious reasons. That goes against the teaching of a personal relationship with Christ, and the sovereignty of a parent's decision regarding what's best for their children.

 

Dorinda

 

Holly IN - This is my original post that explains my opinions on the matter. And, in response to your questions, if a specific church, meaning your local church where your membership is wants to take a stand on this, fine. However, when I referenced "The Church," I was referring to the bigger entity, the Body of Christ. And when one religious denomination/group tries to speak for all of us PUBLICLY and say we're all (all Christians) in this together, I resent that. Especially since they don't speak for me, or my church on this matter.

 

Blessings!

Respectfully

Dorinda

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But why? The actions of a fringe group shouldn't lead to an indictment against an entire extremely varied population unless you're already disposed to prejudicial feelings against that population. I think these fringe groups are an excuse, not a reason, for people to unleash their anti-Christian feelings.

 

Zelda, a non-Christian

 

 

Yes, you are exactly right, Zelda. I kinda jumped the gun when I responded. Thanks for saying that so eloquently.

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Why? Why should the church stay out of politics? This is where there is a mis understanding over separation of church and state. There was never an intent to keep church out of politics. Separation of church and state is for the prevention of the state getting into the church's business. The church has every right to inform their congregation on the dangers of whatever it is out there whether it be movies, tv or public schools.

 

I am a conservation Christian and I am so glad this article was put out!!

 

Holly

 

I don't think the church needs to stay out of politics. I do think though that if it's going to comment on politics it needs to work on having an informed and thoughtful population of believers rather then issuing articles and calls to tell believers what to do.

 

It would be much more useful to have an article that asks readers to look at a local school and examine it in the light of their beliefs and value so they can make an informed and concious choice about how to educate their child while keeping true to their faith rather then issue a call "true" Christians should follow.

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for me, seeing something like "working out" would mean that parents were spending more time w/ their kids ;)

 

I'm glad YOUR experience was good. We have too much evidence from across the country to write off the analogy as 'ridiculous' tho.

 

I did not say "working out", I said "working like". This was in reference to the financial impact such a move may or may not have on the schools. I'm just not sure how it would all fall.

 

Ridiculous to say all. What I mean by ridiculous to say "any" is to say it indiscriminately without qualification, not that there are no schools like that. I would have thought you'd understand that. Yes, MY experience was/is good and the experiences of others have been bad. It's anecdotal either way. I certainly don't believe my experience is unique or rare. I do believe that if an honest study was done and numbers were crunched, the majority of public school experience would not be the horror that you think it is based on your own anecdotal evidence and experience.

 

that's great :) It's nice to know who all is not homeschooling on this board and which ones are. However, just because one aspect of life isn't "any more" of a battlefield than another doesn't mean the rest of us are willing to subject our kids to Yet Another Battlefield..

 

I have not hidden the fact that I no longer homeschool. There are quite a few on this board who no longer homeschool or who homeschool only some of their kids. It's right there in my signature line. I'm not sure what you meant by the first two sentences of this paragraph, so I'm including that just in case. No one is suggesting that you should put your children in public school, that this is the right thing for your family, or that you should subject them to what you see as "Yet Another Battlefield". In my situation, the public school is not what I would consider a battlefield and that is one of the reasons I feel comfortable having my children there.

 

yup. and many of us choose to practice that w/o the added distraction of a school system.

 

What may be a distraction for some, may be used as an added opportunity to learn and grow for others. Again, I am not condemning your choice to homeschool or saying that I feel public school is somehow necessary to round out a child's education whether academic or spiritual or experiential.

 

 

you would only be failing if the "best instruction in physics" came w/ a detrimental spiritual side. You have stated that your dc's school doesn't, and I'm sure you are aware enough that your school's situation is the exception, not the rule. great academics at a high spiritual cost? I think scripture speaks pretty darn clearly there.

 

I am aware that my children's situation of not having a physics class that comes with a detrimental spiritual side is the exception rather than the rule? What? I would say the opposite is true. Since physics is generally a high school course, I would hope that any young person of average intelligence and ability would be instructed and grounded enough in their own faith by that point to know what they believe and to withstand a little difference of opinion.

 

I think you know that I am not promoting "great academics at a high spiritual cost" by what I have said here. Statements like that make me think you're just trying to pick a fight. I'm truly puzzled by this since I am clearly not condemning those who chose to homeschool. Let me remind you that I homeschooled for 13 years. I don't think I made a mistake. That is not why my children are currently in public school. I do not doubt that I could homeschool them through high school successfully if we felt that was the right thing for our family. (Granted, I would get someone at a co-op or a tutor to help with subjects such as physics.)

 

Let me be very clear. I am not condemning people who choose homeschooling over public school. Why would I even be here?:001_huh: I am only condemning:

a) the article

b) the notion that those who do not agree with the article are "lukewarm Christians"

c) the villainization of and generalizations about all (or even most) public schools, public school teachers, experiences of children who are forced onto this "battlefield", etc.[/I]

 

this will vary from family to family, person to person. Like plants, some people are hardier than others and thrive under harsh conditions. Others need to be sheltered for a long time till they are fully mature. Some of us are called to be meek servants, others are called to be loud wackos hollering in the wilderness ;).

 

I agree that things will vary from person to person and family to family and that some people are hardier than others. That's why I support families doing what is best for their family and for each individual child.

 

I don't quite understand who you're saying needs to be sheltered or is hardier or who is called to be a meek servant or a "loud wacko". At first glance, it looks to me like a thinly-veiled insult, but it's a very confusing and jumbled one, and I'm going to choose to believe you did not mean it that way.

 

1. I think God does a LOT of not intervening. he gives us free will --to do wrong, and to do right.

2. yeah, i think a lot of choices are pretty much equal. not necessarily 'most', but some- sure.

3. yup. He is our sufficiency when we are doing all kind sof things -right or wrong. But that doesn't prevent us from striving to do what is best, whether that be school or homeschool, for whatever reasons.

:001_huh:Well, okay. I think we agree there.

 

4. yeah, but back to #1: I don't think God lets kids get killed in school shootings or abused at the hands of parents because "He's not capable" of watching them. He was more than capable of protecting the infant Christ, but instead told Joseph to take the babe and his mother and FLEE.

 

So it's up to us as parents to listen to our parental instincts on which areas of life are most dangerous for *our* families --car seat safety, letting children go to public restrooms/ changing rooms alone, drinking alcohol/ caffeine while pregnant, giving our babies formula instead of nursing, and yes, even homeschooling vs public/private schooling.

 

The first part of this paragraph goes back to that age old question, "If God is so good, why do bad things happen--sometimes to good people?" Yes God does intervene in many ways. Just as He told Joseph to take Jesus and Mary and flee to Egypt, He is capable of giving us instructions today.

 

Perhaps the problems arise when we don't listen. God does not force us to listen. Remember Paul? God told him several times not to go to Jerusalem, but Paul went anyway and was put in prison. Paul's was very sincere and religious in his reasons for wanting to go to Jerusalem, but God knew that it would get him in trouble and communicated that to Paul in several ways both directly and through other people. Paul's response is recorded in Acts 21:13.

"Then Paul answered, What mean ye to weep and to break mine heart? for I am ready not to be bound only, but also to die at Jerusalem for the name of the Lord Jesus." It was not God's will for those things to happen to Paul. How much better could Paul have served God outside of prison? It was a result of Paul ignoring what God told him.

 

Now, I do not draw any parallels between those who homeschool (or don't) and Paul's situation. Nor do I think it's appropriate to draw parallels between Joseph fleeing to Egypt to protect the baby Jesus and Christians fleeing the public schools to protect their children. These things are written in God's Word for our learning, but they are not directly addressed to us as in, "Thou shalt flee the public schools" or "Thou shalt not homeschool". They are very different situations which may or may not shed light on this particular area of our lives. Remember that there is room for variation, in this case the variation being whether God has given you specific instructions on your child(ren)'s schooling since the topic is not directly addressed in His written Word.

 

I agree that it is up to us as Christian parents to listen first to what God says and then to our parental instincts. Absolute agreement there. On all the things you listed and more. I agree that that may vary for different families and different individuals. I do not condemn anyone else's choices and wonder why you seem to have taken my comments that way. I'm glad you have made the choice which you feel is best for your family and that you are able to do so.

 

If I have read a combative tone which you did not intend into your response, I apologize. However, it seems that any time I make a comment with the intention of introducing a little moderation into the thinking and comments already being made about public schools, you become extremely defensive and, yes combative. I. Do. Not. Understand. My positive statements about public schools do not mean I see homeschooling in anything less than a positive light.

Edited by PrairieAir
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The irony to me is that it's a poorly structured, vague, poorly written article. I'd like to know if the "movement" is more cohesive and presents an articulate arguement for the suggested exodus. (Even if I didn't agree with the content, I'd respect a well reasoned, thought out presentation.)

 

I find much of the conservative Christian community/culture very flawed. I also believe that Satan need not work hard to draw people away from God; God's people tend to assist. The absolute truth is that until certain types of conservative Christians can "see" and "understand" how a Bible believing, passionately faithful person can hold the ideas on the "other side" of the big issues, we will continue to struggle in our schools, homes, churches. We will continue to have "unchurched" believers, continue to alienate and discourage people.

 

I have my "own" views, based on my understanding and study of scripture on the issues of homosexual marriage, of abortion, of fiscal policy, etc. But I *completely* get how a Christian person can see the situation differently.

 

 

 

Let me be very clear. I am not condemning people who choose homeschooling over public school. Why would I even be here? I am only condemning:

a) the article

b) the notion that those who do not agree with the article are "lukewarm Christians"

c) the villainization of and generalizations about all (or even most) public schools, public school teachers, experiences of children who are forced onto this "battlefield", etc.[/i]

 

I'm with you on (a) and (b). But with regard to ©, I wish that this board ..... were still a place where passionate anti-institutional education were allowed without a string of posters offering the "whatever works" philosophy.

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I do believe that if an honest study was done and numbers were crunched, the majority of public school experience would not be the horror that you think it is based on your own anecdotal evidence and experience.[/i]

 

oh i don't know about that -- there's more than anecdotal experience showing how the school system is failing children in more than one way.

 

I am aware that my children's situation of not having a physics class that comes with a detrimental spiritual side is the exception rather than the rule? What? I would say the opposite is true. Since physics is generally a high school course, I would hope that any young person of average intelligence and ability would be instructed and grounded enough in their own faith by that point to know what they believe and to withstand a little difference of opinion.

 

that's a nice hope, but scripture is clear that even ADULTS have difficulty withstanding "a little difference" of opinion, esp when that difference may be directly against one's faith and cater to personal interests. We got a lot of NT letters out of those differences ;) And as you mentioned below: things will vary from person to person and family to family and ... some people are hardier than others.

 

Now this I am offering as someone who DOES get out there and mingle w/ people of varying beliefs. Our own family tends to be pretty darn hardy, lol. But I've met several families who really DO need a bit more sheltering than we do -or see more benefits in sheltering-, and I guarantee you they ARE intelligent and well-grounded in their faith.

 

I think you know that I am not promoting "great academics at a high spiritual cost" by what I have said here. Statements like that make me think you're just trying to pick a fight. I'm truly puzzled by this since I am clearly not condemning those who chose to homeschool.

----

I do not condemn anyone else's choices and wonder why you seem to have taken my comments that way.

----

If I have read a combative tone which you did not intend into your response, I apologize. However, it seems that any time I make a comment with the intention of introducing a little moderation into the thinking and comments already being made about public schools, you become extremely defensive and, yes combative. I. Do. Not. Understand. My positive statements about public schools do not mean I see homeschooling in anything less than a positive light.[/i]

 

I didn't SAY that YOU were promoting that -- I merely offered it as the opposite view of what you shared in your original response. This is a discussion board. It sounds like you are assuming that everytime someone presents the positives of homeschooling thru highschool YOU get defensive and assign the opposite view as "combative." Maybe we're just reading each other wrong? I can buy that. It happens. I absolutely recognize that I am vocal about the pros of homeschooling, so if that's what makes me combative, then I can live w/ that. :D I'm also not much of an ITA person --I prefer to look for discussions that offer a chance to research differences of opinion. Some smart gal said "opportunities to discuss differences in beliefs" is a great way to stretch ourselves and apply what we have learned ;)

 

You wrote a long drawn out opinion, i offered my own thoughts that were precipitated by that. It's not an indictment on YOU, just a springboard to discuss those particular issues. so on that note, back to the discussion... :)

 

Let me be very clear. I am not condemning people who choose homeschooling over public school. Why would I even be here?

 

I do not know you. I don't care to question your motives for being here, I'm just looking at this as a homeschool SUPPORT board, which is why I tend to side w/ Joanne's take on the following:

 

I am only condemning:

a) the article

b) the notion that those who do not agree with the article are "lukewarm Christians"

c) the villainization of and generalizations about all (or even most) public schools, public school teachers, experiences of children who are forced onto this "battlefield", etc.

 

just like we have posters who are convinced there is only One Right Way to be a Good Steward of the Earth [by jumping on board w/ popular scientific consensus], so also are there some of us who DO feel that ALL institutionalized schools offer more harm in the long run than a homeschool approach would. Joanne shared a well-phrased post awhile back that I'll try to find about that.

And maybe both camps ["proper" stewardship and homeschool] are overly-confident in their rightness ;)

 

Or like you shared in your original post: That does not seem like any more of a spiritual battlefield than any other area of life. And ALL areas of life ARE ripe to be a spiritual battlefield.

 

I agree that things will vary from person to person and family to family and that some people are hardier than others. That's why I support families doing what is best for their family and for each individual child.

 

I don't quite understand who you're saying needs to be sheltered or is hardier or who is called to be a meek servant or a "loud wacko". At first glance, it looks to me like a thinly-veiled insult, but it's a very confusing and jumbled one, and I'm going to choose to believe you did not mean it that way.

I was referring to the students: hardier [that you recognized 2 sentences back] vs needing more shelter. That would also apply to your statement of "I would hope that any young person of average intelligence and ability would be instructed and grounded enough in their own faith by that point to know what they believe and to withstand a little difference of opinion." to be answered w/ your statement above of "things will vary from person to person and family to family and that some people are hardier than others."

 

And no, I did not mean it as an insult, just as a reference to how some prophets "crying out in the wilderness" must have been perceived at the time ;)

 

He is capable of giving us instructions today.

-----

Now, I do not draw any parallels between those who homeschool (or don't) and Paul's situation. Nor do I think it's appropriate to draw parallels between Joseph fleeing to Egypt to protect the baby Jesus and Christians fleeing the public schools to protect their children. These things are written in God's Word for our learning, but they are not directly addressed to us as in, "Thou shalt flee the public schools" or "Thou shalt not homeschool". They are very different situations which may or may not shed light on this particular area of our lives. Remember that there is room for variation, in this case the variation being whether God has given you specific instructions on your child(ren)'s schooling since the topic is not directly addressed in His written Word.

 

 

I think it is absolutely appropriate to draw parallells and lessons from scripture as God sheds light on them for individual circumstances. The analogy might not be appropriate for YOU, but make a whole lotta sense to others.

And there IS plenty of scripture about keeping care of the company we keep wrt scriptural fellowship. And Scriptural fellowship most often can NOT be accomplished in a traditional public school setting - esp from a legal standpoint. I'll refer back to my response to Nicole for that.

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Satan need not work hard to draw people away from God; God's people tend to assist.

 

yeah... we jokingly reword the Lord's Prayer to "and lead us not into Temptation, we can find it ourselves."

 

I'm with you on (a) and (b). But with regard to ©, I wish that this board ..... were still a place where passionate anti-institutional education were allowed without a string of posters offering the "whatever works" philosophy.

 

yeah. altho those discussions can be fun ;)

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