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Is teaching reading different than teaching spelling?


debbiec
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He feels like you learn to spell to write, but you don't learn to spell to read. He says you don't mentally decode every word when you start to read, that there is a certain amount of word structures you just get very familiar with and memorize the "sound" of it. Later you learn the spelling rules to learn to write. But, he agrees that reading does not produce the ability to spell.

 

I partially agree with your dh. Phonics is the "code breaker" for reading. The English language is highly phonetic (the number of rule breakers is significantly smaller than the percentage that conform to phonetic rules.) I don't know that it is simply a matter of not decoding every word.....I believe they are decoding but with familiarity it doesn't take time to read the word b/c the sounds are mastered. For example, ay says long a, eigh says long a, etc. Once they know those rules, when they encounter new words, they simply read the correct sound.

 

You are going to get different answers to your original question. For natural spellers, yes, I think rules and spelling mesh together well. However, reading level vastly exceeds spelling level very early on. However, for kids that are not natural spellers, rules alone are not going to increase spelling ability. once kids start reaching words that don't conform to cvc or cvc(silent e), the number of possibilities for how words are spelled starts to make rules less and less helpful. Yes, ir,er, and ur all say /er/ so when you are reading them, you know how to sound them out. However, knowing how to spell bird, church, work, first, etc takes memorization. Knowing that those three choices make that sound or that w makes or say er help, but beyond that they simply have to learn it.

 

So, ultimately, yes, the skills are separate.

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Going into K5 with my dd (who is now 3rd), it seemed ironic that we when we teach reading we DON'T use the same rules and patterns we expect them to use for spelling. Why learn two sets of rules? They don't contradict and they're describing the same words. I went with SWR because it makes the transition from reading to spelling seamless, using the same approach and rules, worked for us. So indeed you CAN spell a dc into reading. You just have to have a really good, thorough spelling program to do it. Your dh is correct that as they internalize the sound to written connection (which SWR/WRTR attempt to establish), they begin to read extremely quickly, taking words in gulps not just sounding out. This has its pros and cons. With my dd, I have to slow her down sometimes and make her work through the syllables. It's just a skill, not a big deal.

 

How old is your dc? He probably has very little NEED to spell or write, hence it not coming. I'd finish whatever you've been doing for phonics and then start some gentle, age-appropriate spelling.

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I ask this because I have been comparing some programs that is making my head spin. Some rely on word families for easier reading, with few rules or few phonics (if any), some rely on "phonograms" and lots of memorization and then everything in between. And then, as I have become clued in recently, the whole sound to sight vs. sight to sound issues. I did find a really good (highly technical) article on line that both are needed, sound to sight for writing, and sight to sound for reading, but as you said, reading is ahead of spelling/writing by as much as two years. And the article mentioned that these (reading and .spelling/writing are two very different skills, related, but very different. I guess I'm trying to find a way to intergrate. So, can I teach reading with word families but still apply phonics and spelling rules? I've looked at so many programs I don't even know what the "norm" is anymore. But, I don't want to work toward reading better first with some phonics, without overloading on all the spelling rules.

 

Can you tell I'm a rookie?

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Someone had told me to talk you about SWR. That is one of the programs I've been checking out, but I haven't been able to see the book and on line info just isn''t enough for me. But, from what I've read, SWR seems to be more of a spelling program, that may enhance reading. I know DS is stalled out at the OA, OW, AE, etc vowel pairs in spelling, but he CAN read them without a problem. Trying to break those down into all the different ways to spell /o/ or all the sounds that OW make is so completely overwhelming for him. He has been taught (at school) phonics w/ word families, but I believe his little brain grabbed onto the families and not the phonics (when isolated). He knows all 26 letters sounds (short and long, though the c pronounced as /s/ throws him, when isolated, but again, he can read it just fine in a word. He does know the TH, SH, CK, CH sounds, but after that, with isolated sounds, he can't do it.

 

I'm just wondering if I should just be THAT concerned about his inability to determine those sounds in isolation, or just continue with word families, chunk and rimes for reading purposes. Although we seem to be getting stalled out there as well, which is why I'm wondering if I need to work more with spelling and if it would help or just wait. I am such a natural decoder that I can't break this all down easily.

 

Sorry, this is so long ~ thanks for your patience.

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Well, I actually teach my kids the rules and phonograms while they are learning to read. When they are reading aloud and stumble, I simply review what they have been learned so that eventually they internalize all the sounds and rules.

 

However, we spell where they are. If they are on short a cvc words, we stay there until they are mastered. Then we move on to short e, etc. We simply move at their speed in spelling and their speed at reading.

 

I think the key is that the teacher has to know the rules and phonograms so that they can be taught naturally throughout the day. We don't phonogram flash cards and repeat the rules (well, I did that with my oldest with WRTR......I have not done that with a single other child b/c it is NOT the way I want to teach). We use Sing, Spell, Read, Write to learn the basic phonograms. As we start reading different words using the phonograms, I start discussing rules. One option once they progress beyond that level is How to Teach Spellig (which includes all the phonograms, rules, as well as spiral dictation which incorporates both).

 

I am more inclined to promote teaching vs. curricula at this point in my life. If you don't know the basic rules, you will only be able to teach them when the book is in your hand in an isolated spelling lesson. If you know them, regardless of what they are reading/writing, you can have a natural discussion about the whys.

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I ask this because I have been comparing some programs that is making my head spin. Some rely on word families for easier reading, with few rules or few phonics (if any), some rely on "phonograms" and lots of memorization and then everything in between. And then, as I have become clued in recently, the whole sound to sight vs. sight to sound issues. I did find a really good (highly technical) article on line that both are needed, sound to sight for writing, and sight to sound for reading, but as you said, reading is ahead of spelling/writing by as much as two years. And the article mentioned that these (reading and .spelling/writing are two very different skills, related, but very different. I guess I'm trying to find a way to intergrate. So, can I teach reading with word families but still apply phonics and spelling rules? I've looked at so many programs I don't even know what the "norm" is anymore. But, I don't want to work toward reading better first with some phonics, without overloading on all the spelling rules.

 

Can you tell I'm a rookie?

 

Spalding (Writing Road to Reading) and its spin-offs teach children to read by teaching them to spell. You "apply" phonics rules when you're reading, but you have to know the spelling rules to write those words.

 

For example, you might know how to pronounce "save." But how would you spell "have" if it were dictated? Did you know that there are 5 reasons for final silent e? They are as follows:

 

1. to help a single vowel say its long sound, as in single vowel, single consonant, final silent e ("save")

 

2. English words don't end with u or v, so we use final silent e (have)

 

3. to allow c and g to say their second, or "soft" sounds (chance, change)

 

4. Every syllable in English has to have a vowel. -ble, -cle, -dle, -fle, and so on would be pronounced the same even if the e wasn't there, but there must be a vowel, so we use e.

 

5. No job e. :-) House, horse, come, and promise are a few words which have no-job e's.

 

I guess the short answer would be that I don't know how you could teach word families and spelling rules at the same time. But why teach word families? Why not use WRTR or SWR and get everything in one fell swoop?

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My husband feels that reading is a different skill set than learning to spell. He feels like you learn to spell to write, but you don't learn to spell to read. He says you don't mentally decode every word when you start to read, that there is a certain amount of word structures you just get very familiar with and memorize the "sound" of it. Later you learn the spelling rules to learn to write. But, he agrees that reading does not produce the ability to spell. I think what he is saying is you start big and add the details as to "why" later(spelling rules and what he would call advanced phonics).

 

So, is phonics more of a reading or spelling skill, or both, but in different ways or diferent levels? Help!

 

I think your husband is right. I don't teach spelling at all until the child is reading fluently, which would be about 3rd grade reading level. That doesn't mean that the child isn't learning spelling through phonics (and visual memorization) as I'm teaching reading, it just means I do not focus on spelling until reading is fully mastered.

 

Some children (like my son) are not able to learn to read with phonics, but it is still helpful with spelling. Others, (like my daughter) could naturally spell any word she could read, and never needed to be taught spelling.

 

Susan in TX

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I prefer to teach phonics for reading first. I know you can work both but I prefer to focus on reading.... for us it tends to go faster. I also tend not to require any writing (especially for boys who aren't ready). Phonics for reading is learning that when you see this (& I point to the days phonogram) you say that (& I tell them what sound it makes in todays lesson).... if applicable I'll point out any helpful phonics rules. We use AlphaPhonics which is based on Orton Gillingham research (the basis for WRTR, SWR, etc.).

 

For spelling I just couldn't find what I wanted. So far How to Spell seems to work well. It is also based on Orton Gillingham so the phonograms and rules are similar. Spelling also tends to require writing, so I also prefer to have done some handwriting before beginning spelling.

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to use a phonics programm (Jolly Phonics in our case, that's for young children) and then learn lots of words by heart on top of that. We have a list of common words (like "we", "down",...) that we make little cards from and just learn like that.

 

I know it can look daunting in the beginning, but once you get into it you'll find it's not that difficult!

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Momof7--would you be my mentor?

 

I would dearly love to teach with your approach. I'm such a rookie, too!

 

Debbiec--what is it you want to accomplish?

 

I wanted my son to learn to read. He did that with Alphaphonics.

Then, I noticed he couldn't spell. Not at all. I remember looking at his spelling list (from Spelling workout)one day and it had something on it like "save" and "have." And I couldn't tell him why they were different but looked the same. I had no clue. Now I know. (See the five rules for silent final E above!)

 

It's a spelling program--so, of course it's going to list words with similiar spellings--but different sounds. But it was totally confusing to my logical, straight ahead, tell me the answer NOW, somewhat perfectionist son.

 

So I RAN to SWR. And, as my son learned to spell, my daughter learned to read with it.

 

My point is this: you don't really have to understand the philosophy fully behind a program and whether it is the "right" approach in order to use it--what you have to know is:

 

1) how does your son learn best? Perhaps he's confused by word families. They are artificial and arbitrary constructs. What sort of an approach does he need?

 

2) Does the program you're considering meet that need?

 

3) Can you tweak it without a lot of effort to make it REALLY fit your needs? (For example, I got coloured index cards for my son to write his spelling words on so that it would be highly visual. We made up sentences with the cards because it was tactile, that sort of thing).

 

An indispensable resource for answering these sorts of questions is Cathy Duffey's "100 top picks for Homeschooling curriculum." It will help you evaluate curriculum according to your needs--and, more importantly, your son's.

hth.

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So, what did you use for your son? (nt)

 

I started out with Explode the Code and then we used Rod & Staff phonics. He could sound out the words...slowly and painfully...but he would not remember them. He had to sound out every word every time, no matter how many times he had seen the word before. It was very frustrating for both of us. Meanwhile, his younger sister learned to read just fine.

 

I was in despair, thinking he would never learn to read when I decided to try a sight reading approach. I used Dolch sight word workbooks and Scholastic's 100 Words Kids Need to Know workbook series. I also used the Ginn Basic readers from the 1960s. I stopped making him sound out words. If he didn't know a word, I just told him what it was. I usually only had to tell him once or twice and then he remembered the word! He also liked to play Pokemon on his gameboy but he couldn't read a lot of the words. Usually I was too busy doing something else to stop and read the word for him so I would have him spell the word out to me and then I would tell him what it was. I did this when he was reading independently too. This helped him a lot. I think there is something about spelling out the word, letter by letter, that really made it stick for him.

 

He is almost 11 now and reading at grade level. He is the only one of my seven children that I've taught to read so far that could not learn with phonics.

 

Susan in TX

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