Need ideas for motivation

[KLA]

I need some thoughts and ideas on motivation. I have a very laid back 4th grade 10yr old boy who is not very self-motivated. He's very bright - no academic troubles at all. However, he is not very diligent or focused (but the kid can play legos/knex for 3 hours straight), unless there is a reward promised (chocolate, money, computer time etc.) I don't give rewards very often but I think it would benefit him.

 

We do plenty just because its school without rewards, but I'm looking for some simple to implement reward systems. He's the kind of kid who would probably thrive in a classroom from the positive peer pressure that pushes kids. Thats obviously hard to recreate at home so...help. I have tried to implement grades this year but again, he's not super competitive so he's not that ruffled if he misses 2 or if he misses 20.

 

Thanks for your thoughts.

KLA

[mom31257]

Is the problem that he isn't motivated to do his work well (missing 2 or 20 doesn't matter), finishing in a timely manner (diligent, focused, etc), or both?

[mom31257]

I'm going to bed soon, so I thought I'd go ahead and post my ideas.

If you want a reward system, I would make a list of privileges that he really cares about (computer or video game time, etc.) so you can think about what rewards to use.

 

I use Homeschool Tracker, a free computer program for tracking assignments and grades. It allows you to print off assignment sheets as well as report cards.

 

Why not do a point system to earn time on those privileges? He could earn points for turning in his work, completed and neat, by a certain time of day. He could then earn more points for getting certain percentages of his work right. You could print out a report card at the end of every week, and have a different reward for every A.

 

My dd is laid back, but does care about her grades. I'm not sure how that happened. She has had problems with motivation on time, though. I used to print her a daily assignment sheet, but she didn't like that it alphabetized the list. She wanted to pick the order. Now I write out her assignments for the week on one piece of paper. We sit down together and discuss any outside of the house activities that week and which days. She decides which things to do which day. It has really motivated her because she feels in control. She has become so much more independent. We do history together, so she doesn't get to decide on that subject.

 

I hope you find something that works for you. Playstation is a big motivator for my ds.

[yslek]

I'm not a huge fan of TJED (Thomas Jefferson Education) but one idea they had for motivating kids is a "bean jar". It's just a jar and enough dry beans to fill it. Every time someone in the family does something worthy of reward, some number of beans can be added to the jar. When the jar is full, the whole family gets to enjoy some kind of special reward (movie night, dinner out, trip to a local park, whatever).

 

Maybe some variation of that would work? Sorry if I'm way off base. :D

[KLA]

Is the problem that he isn't motivated to do his work well (missing 2 or 20 doesn't matter), finishing in a timely manner (diligent, focused, etc), or both?

 

Its both, really. He's not motivated to check for careless errors and he's highly distracted during school time and just doesn't get how he could work more diligently and be done quicker etc. We have time limits for subjects and he finishes what's not done for "homework" in the afternoon, but he's even pretty laid back about that too. My daughter is the complete opposite and sees the merit and reward in working hard to finish sooner rather than later.

 

For example, on Math fact sheets - they could take him 10 minutes if I'm not sitting right there telling him to focus every 10 seconds. But if I tell him he earns computer time or a piece of chocolate when he is done, then he can finish it in 3 minutes. And its not ADD or anything - like I said the kid can be highly focused on playmobil, puzzles, drawing, legos etc for hours at a time.

 

Is this just something to work with until he out grows? Do you think more rewards would be beneficial? Is it okay to use rewards (like a quarter or Wii time) in this way?

 

Thanks for your thoughts.

[ummtafari]

I hear you! I was not a big fan of behavioral psychology, but it does work. If you look at adult life, we get rewards for doing our work (paycheck, bonuses, raises, etc.) Ultimately, I don't see anything wrong with rewards. We all like to be given a pat on the back!

 

My son likes time to read for pleasure and knit and that is what I reward him with.

 

Debra in VA

[Friederike in Persia]

Mine isn't that involved in home-schooling (does spelling with them in the evening and helps out with maths when I'm not sure), but when I tried to implement a rewards system for RS, he was really against it. "They should learn without rewards" was his viewpoint. :glare:

[KLA]

We are both in favor of doing and learning just for the sake of doing and learning but also believe there is an important lesson in understanding the concept of earning things. For example, we pay them for certain (not all) jobs (not called chores at our house) around the house. If they do them well, they get paid, if not, they don't. We want them to understand that for real life someday. Don't go to work and you won't get paid.

 

We want to work with his personality while challenging him too. It's a balance that can be tough to achieve. Again, thanks for your thoughts.

KLA

[PeterPan]

Well KLA, the things you're describing sound much like my dd (very laidback, non-competitive, doesn't follow through with things like putting away the jar she takes out, etc.) And it's taken getting her to this age (9 1/2) for me to finally see how it all fits together. I thought it was failures on my part for some of the things, but it's really just all one spread of the continuium of HER. It's who she is and how she is. Not to say I'm gonna leave it that way, lol, but it's built into her and I understand your plight. Crazy capable but so laid back!

 

As far as rewards, we've implemented them with some success, SOME being the important word. She went really gallantly on one thing I tried, but when the promised prize didn't match up to her standard, she felt burnt and has never been incentivized since. Her newest thing is money, out and out money. I told her she could earn the money on paper and work toward a prize, but I think there's a control factor with money. We're talking nickels for doing flashmaster, so that's not too much. I'll probably cave in and do it that way and be done with it. That way she's perpetually motivated by her own little schemes that require money.

 

As far as work (around the house), we don't reward for that, sorry. My dh is making it a discipline issue, doesn't feel she should need to be paid, and that she should do it automatically. In other words, he wants to build in her the sense of responsibility that is lacking. I think this is an important thing, and it's something my dh has had to come alongside to help with, because he carries a bit more weight, if you know what I mean. I also tend to be a bit more scatterbrained, or shall we say distracted by the new baby, so he provides consistent follow-up and accountability.

 

In other words, we're isolating it into multiple things we can work on. Accountability for independent implementation of basic chores. Rewards for bonus behavior (sessions on Flashmaster). Discussions about laziness in our character/Bible time. Constant little lessons throughout the day where we point out and ask her if she's allowing herself to be distracted, if she's off-topic or off-track, etc.

 

Now as far as the academics, I think the struggle is in matching the material to the dc. It was so easy when they were younger to up the level or up the ante. But once you get to these upper grades (4th, 5th, 6th), it really starts getting hard. You can't just up the grade level on the material, because it still might not be enough, either with pacing is still to slow or just not the right conceptual approach. And if they think the work is stupid or pointless or too childish or disinteresting, they really balk out. It just sucks the life out of them. Since they're our oldest dc, they get to be the guinea pigs while we learn. Take literature. We're doing the BJU5, which is a grade ahead. The writing in the workbook, when put a grade ahead like that, is pleasant, simple, and perfectly do-able. But the discussions in the book bore her to tears (always has the answers) and the texts seem too simplistic and childish to her. So I could do the readings but discuss them in a higher, more thought-provoking way. (less didactic, more thoughtful) I could toss the thing entirely. But you know making up stuff yourself is really hard and scary, because it means you have to learn it yourself, can't rely on the curriculum. And if you do that, there could be gaps, serious gaps, not just with content but with your (my) ability to present the world view and thought process we espouse. So instead we turn to grade leveled curriculum that doesn't fit them, leaves them bored and frustrated, and then we're surprised when they balk, don't want to do their work, and have no fire. In other words, it was a lot easier to light their fire when they were little! Now it's harder and requires a lot more work and ground level prep of us!!

 

So I don't know if that made any sense, except to say that I think sometimes the materials we're using or how we're using them can be the problem. Sometimes it takes a complete overhaul, a going back to the zero level and starting over with new things or a new perspective or a new emphasis. My dd has really grown over the last year while I was pregnant, and I didn't keep up with that, haven't captured how to teach to that or light her fire again. We've gotten in the doldrums, and I think some of getting her out requires a revamping of our day, a fresh approach with the goal of really lighting her fire, not just punching her ticket.

 

On top of academics, could I also add that for my dd there was a real need for more physical activity? I've started sending her out for laps every morning, which has been helping tremendously with her attitude, energy, and enthusiasm. If she doesn't come in sweet and ready to work, I go tell her to run some more. :)

 

Hope you are able to find a combo that works for your ds! I think with us it's not just one thing, but a myriad of things. Oh, and I'm going to try a treasure chest approach for some memory work I want to do with her. I think a mixture of rewards, exercise for energy, curriculum modification, and character instruction will get us there.

Edited December 30, 2008 by OhElizabeth

[Strawberry Queen]

A reward system could be done as a matter of fact. If you get your work done by x time, then you will have free time on the computer etc. If you don't get it done then you have to spend that time working. It's more of a natural consequence than a reward. If I get my planning done then I can watch a movie with the leftover time. The problem that I run into is that my kids have so much free time that they don't naturally run out of time. So, what I'm thinking of doing is putting that free time right after school and once it's done it's done for the day.

[ummtafari]

If you don't get it done then you have to spend that time working. It's more of a natural consequence than a reward. If I get my planning done then I can watch a movie with the leftover time.

 

 

Yes, yes, this is exactly the way we look at it!

 

Does it work? Well, some days my ds is doing his work all day and night! Other days he gets it done right away because he has something he wants to do afterwards.

 

No, we don't reward chores either. Although, I do give him little treats from time to time for helping me with his baby sister. He goes above and beyond his responsibilities for helping me out in that aspect. I just want to show him that he is appreciated!

 

Debra in VA

[KLA]

In other words, we're isolating it into multiple things we can work on. Accountability for independent implementation of basic chores. Rewards for bonus behavior (sessions on Flashmaster). Discussions about laziness in our character/Bible time. Constant little lessons throughout the day where we point out and ask her if she's allowing herself to be distracted, if she's off-topic or off-track, etc.

 

Now as far as the academics, I think the struggle is in matching the material to the dc.

 

Thank you so much for your thoughtful post. I think I'm tracking with you. A slow, consistent approach may be the best thing for steering this personality type.

 

Now on the academics...this may sound dumb but how do you know if the curriculum is not a good fit? I mean, take our Math for instance, we've always used Saxon. Works for us, nobody hates it, and we're doing just fine at Math. He doesn't LOVE Math but he's a language arts kid so I don't really expect him to love Math. He could get 100% every day if he only checked for careless errors. He could finish in the allotted time if he wanted to but usually doesn't and has to finish after school hours. But because this is his personality, I'm not sure another curriculum would change things too much.

 

I'm willing to explore this idea but can you elaborate at all? Does my question even make sense?

 

Thanks again,

KLA - Kerry

[PeterPan]

What's ironic here, as I think about it, is the assumption that rewards would motivate them. In reality, the only thing my dd wants, likes, or craves is FUN. She does something because it sounds fun. She wants it because she thinks it will be fun. She's not discontented, so the acquisition of stuff doesn't interest her. But the times when I've made things into more of a game (complete the assignment to open the secret packet to discover your prize, that sort of thing), it's gone over big. And it's not surprising. She's the playful, fun type. So I don't know if your ds is like that, but it's something else to add to the mix.

 

As far as knowing what isn't working, well you just ask... I'm not saying they know what they need, because they don't. But there's a really fine line to walk between you deciding in your wisdom what they need and ignoring their comments about hating it, kwim? We've always talked about things, so maybe that makes her feel more free to have an opinion, I don't know. She's generally compliant and easy-going, willing to slave through whatever I toss at her, so I consider it noteworthy if she really balks at something. At least it's enough to make me stop and make sure I have a REASON for her doing it before I force her to. Sometimes there's a reason, and sometimes the reason isn't good enough. ;)

 

I don't know. You said he was bright, so I tossed all that out. Just ask him. Even if he's not discontented with every single subject, he might like the chance to be empowered a bit and have some say in his work. He might like to tweak your daily schedule or how you do something. He's at an age where he might like to give input and drive some things himself. I'm not saying my dd is there, but she's sort of at the seeds of it, where she's starting to have opinions just because she's getting older, a maturity thing. I've been reading about that in the TJE Companion book, and while I don't agree with everything there and think you could take it too far, it still seems to me to capture an essence of wisdom, that at some point kids gradually have to start taking over and scheduling and owning this for themselves. And that gradual transference, if skipped, might leave them feeling coddled, babied, or powerless. At least that's my two cents.

 

Well I better go. I guess just talk with him. I know it's frustrating, and I'm not enough ahead of you to have any answers. Those are just the things I've been trying and thinking through. It's also occuring to me that this might really change by say 7th grade, and that I shouldn't allow myself to be too frustrated now. :)

[rafiki]

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[ElizabethB]

Singapore math is different and challenging. I especially like the "Intensive Practice" workbooks, they have some fun puzzles.

 

You can buy an Intensive Practice book cheap and try it out, it also includes problems the way they are in the Singapore textbooks as well as some extra puzzle type problems that you won't find in the textbook and workbook. Most of the problems are self-explanatory and there are answers in the back, I'd wait to buy a teachers manual until you decide if you want to switch.

 

We're switching to Singapore after the new year. MUS had been working for us, now it's not working as well. We've been doing Flashmaster and things I've designed on my own, we'll start up with Singapore next week.

 

I have some friends who have a "no school done, no lunch" policy to motivate dawdlers. I don't have that policy, but I do withhold dessert and computer/movie time or anything else "fun" that I can think of when I have motivation problems. Basically, sit in the master bedroom with your work until you're done. (Done if it's work she can do on her own, ready to work cheerfully if it's work she needs help with.) Works every time, it's really boring in there, we have no toys and only really big books like "War and Peace." (I must admit, I haven't made it past page one myself.)

[ElizabethB]

He's 8.5. I've read book after book trying to "figure him out". Hold On to Your Kids by Gordon Neufeld, The Minds Of Boys by Michael Gurian, Leadership Education, and Parent Effectiveness Training have been my favorites. I've explored his learning syle and personality profiles - I can dig up the links if you'd like them, PM me. We talk a lot, I try to get one on one time with him regularly just to talk about stuff.

 

:iagree:

 

My favorite is the MBTI, it really explains people's personalities and what motivates them and why they are the way they are. You really need to read 3 or 4 books about it and study it for a while to get the most out of it, I have a short explanation of it with some online links and book recommendations here:

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/Other/personalitytypea.html

[Lovedtodeath]

:iagree:

 

My favorite is the MBTI, it really explains people's personalities and what motivates them and why they are the way they are. You really need to read 3 or 4 books about it and study it for a while to get the most out of it, I have a short explanation of it with some online links and book recommendations here:

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/Other/personalitytypea.html

 

Will this help me figure out my problem? Seriously. I sound just like the OPs son. As a child, and now.I do have a form of ADD. Some things do help me some with that.

[ElizabethB]

Will this help me figure out my problem? Seriously. I sound just like the OPs son. As a child, and now.I do have a form of ADD. Some things do help me some with that.

 

It generally does! It's good to know your strengths and weaknesses, and recognize that if you're doing something that does not come naturally for your personality type, that it will be very draining.

 

For example, I find it very draining to organize my stuff or work from a rigid schedule. When I clean and organize, I have to use various rewards for myself, and I get a headache if I do too much cleaning or organizing at once. It's worse when I'm sorting and have to make a bunch of decisions about everything, I can work quickly and fairly painlessly with a routine task like laundry or dishes or a quick straightening type cleaning.

[rafiki]

.

[Lovedtodeath]

Thanks!