Springfield, OH Haitian Migrants - what is really going on?

[Sneezyone]

5 minutes ago, pinball said:

LOL ah, the irony…

Indeed. It’s ironic given the (undeserved) immigrant shaming that’s led to the closure of government offices and schools which, surely, impacts business/manufacturing obligations. Who, among those affected by this disruption, will cheer the instigators?

Edited September 12 by Sneezyone

[Sneezyone]

5 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Indeed. It’s ironic given the (undeserved) immigrant shaming that’s led to the closure of government offices and schools which, surely, impacts business/manufacturing obligations. Who, among those affected by this disruption, will cheer the instigators?

Maybe someone can clue me in as to what’s funny about threats to public servants and facilities? If ever there was a time to ban a troll…

Edited September 12 by Sneezyone

[Happy2BaMom]

Just now, Sneezyone said:

Maybe someone can clue me in as to what’s funny about threats to public servants and facilities?

It's the defacto fall-back excuse when the behavior under discussion can't be excused any other way.

[pinball]

4 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Maybe someone can clue me in as to what’s funny about threats to public servants and facilities? If ever there was a time to ban a troll…

 

[Happy2BaMom]

I woke up this morning wondering how long it will be until some poor Haitian is beaten, shot, abducted or killed.

I'm sure much of that entire community is currently the target of some really unpleasant behaviors, and living in fear because of it.

But the cat jokes are sooooo funny and no one can prove that it didn't happen (note: you can't prove a negative, and, as they say, the burden of proof is on the accuser. Except of course when it's conveniently not.)

[frogger]

3 hours ago, Carrie12345 said:

Our country actually has a very long history of overall, regional, and hyper-local population booms and busts. That is NOT new.  So, IMO, the question is, what makes this different?

TBH every boom comes with complaints about newcomers. It doesn't matter if they come from Haiti or Ireland or gasp!  California. Lol People don't like change and will hate the changes required but if you just stagnate and keep everything for the "old timers" well, everywhere I've went like that was sad and dying. Young people with ambition will leave adding to the stagnation. I know I don't have sources to cite off the top of my head but just something I've noticed over my lifetime. Change and growing pains are a part of life. 

So I guess I would say, "I don't think it is different." People have been nasty to immigrants since there were immigrants and it is sad we aren't beyond that yet. 

Edited September 12 by frogger

[Pam in CT]

Given how sustained and coordinated the amplification of the initial blood libel has been, including from two of the most high-profile men in the world with the widest international platform, the bomb threats against the municipal authorities who attempted to tamp down the blood libel, as well as multiple school shooting threats against schools with Haitian kids inside are

all

too

predictable.

 

Such threats of violence, and permission structure for actual violence, are the PURPOSE of blood libels. Whether against Vietnamese who relocated here after helping our military in the 1970s, or against Japanese during WWII, or the evergreen classic original against Jews accused of slaughtering Christian babies so as to bake their blood into matzah.

Or now this. There is only ever one purpose of blood libel: is to stoke violence against the scapegoated target.

 

If stoking that violence wasn't -- isn't -- the intent of the circulation of the blood libel, we will soon see those very prominent purveyors of the blood libel scrambling very quickly and very publicly to direct their supporters to stand down.

And if they fail to do so, we will know them by their actions and omissions.

[pinball]

https://news.grabien.com/story/springfield-ohio-resident-whose-beloved-mother-in-law-was-recently-kil

[KSera]

15 minutes ago, pinball said:

https://news.grabien.com/story/springfield-ohio-resident-whose-beloved-mother-in-law-was-recently-kil

Very tragic story. 
I’m sorry that happened to that woman. I’m reading about the accident from multiple sources other than Grabien News (https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/grabien-news/) every other report indicates that she was hit while crossing the street, not in her driveway. It was still completely dark out at 5:41 AM in December and a rainy night from the looks of all the pictures. A tragedy nonetheless. I have see no indication how the person driving the car was driving, except the fact that I don’t see any indication he was charged which I take to mean they didn’t have enough evidence to press any charges. I have no idea what the relevance of the country he came from has to the story though. I could give a whole long list of tragic accidents that have happened in my area caused by people born and raised in this town and not. Honestly, most would be from locals. Reckless drivers should be prosecuted regardless of where they are from. 
 

[Sneezyone]

1 minute ago, KSera said:

Very tragic story. 
I’m sorry that happened to that woman. I’m reading about the accident from multiple sources other than Grabien News (https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/grabien-news/) every other report indicates that she was hit while crossing the street, not in her driveway. It was still completely dark out at 5:41 AM in December and a rainy night from the looks of all the pictures. A tragedy nonetheless. I have see no indication how the person driving the car was driving, except the fact that I don’t see any indication he was charged which I take to mean they didn’t have enough evidence to press any charges. I have no idea what the relevance of the country he came from has to the story though. I could give a whole long list of tragic accidents that have happened in my area caused by people born and raised in this town and not. Honestly, most would be from locals. Reckless drivers should be prosecuted regardless of where they are from. 
 

There are also very legitimate questions about whether a state that is not offering driver education and assessment in the languages people need/speak is actually interested in ensuring people know how to operate motor vehicles safely. The refusal to adapt to those in need of your services and programs is a choice.

[Amira]

Access to transportation is such a huge issue for newcomers who don’t have a car and US driver license.  Public transportation is so difficult to navigate when you first arrive, especially if you don’t speak English, and it’s really hard to find a job or simply buy groceries in many US cities if you don’t have a car.  Transportation is consistently one of the biggest challenges for non-English speaking newcomers who don’t have a firm financial footing. I would love to see cities choose to put more resources into accessible driver training for anyone who needs it because it’s a major public safety issue.

In the place I just moved from, I was working with a local mosque to find women to volunteer to ride with Afghan women who needed driving practice.  

Edited September 12 by Amira

[pinball]

20 minutes ago, KSera said:

I’m reading about the accident from multiple sources other than Grabien News (https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/grabien-news/)

Wow, you are quite the fact checker, aren’t you?

For anyone who is afraid of the link in my post, all it is in an embedded video of a woman speaking about how her MIL was killed. The only words are the title and a partial transcript of her spoken words. 

No commentary. 

[Heartstrings]

1 hour ago, Pam in CT said:

Such threats of violence, and permission structure for actual violence, are the PURPOSE of blood libels.

100%.   None of this was accidental.  

[maize]

3 hours ago, Sneezyone said:

Leaders should know better than to incite this kind of reaction amongst and toward vulnerable populations. 

It's unfortunately such an effective way for unscrupulous people to drum up popular furor and support.

Propaganda,  not leadership.

Appealing to people's fear and sense of victimization.

Humans are more emotional than rational, and fear is a powerful emotion.

[KSera]

24 minutes ago, pinball said:

Wow, you are quite the fact checker, aren’t you?

For anyone who is afraid of the link in my post, all it is in an embedded video of a woman speaking about how her MIL was killed. The only words are the title and a partial transcript of her spoken words. 

No commentary. 

I do like to fact check, yes. Absolutely. 
 

I’m not scared of your link and I read it. I just shared additional info given that it’s just one source, and not a well regarded one and the description given by the woman’s daughter in law was different from every other news story I was able to find on it. It didn’t have much reporting at the time, it’s just this statement from the daughter in law getting press now.

And really odd to laugh in reaction to a post discussing a tragic accident in which a woman died. 

[maize]

3 hours ago, SKL said:

I don't see the above in the article I linked.  Where is it from?

The article I linked separately breaks out "temporary lawful residents," which made up 4% of the US foreign-born population in 2022.  This number was in addition to the 23% unlawful residents that I cited above.  It's unclear which of your above-listed figures may be included in the 23% and which are not.  However, all the numbers above are small compared to 11 million unlawful residents.

It's in a section near the top of your article, there's a plus sign next to the section title and you click to expand it, it is labeled "Who are unauthorized immigrants?"

Edited September 12 by maize

[Tenaj]

40 minutes ago, pinball said:

Wow, you are quite the fact checker, aren’t you?

For anyone who is afraid of the link in my post, all it is in an embedded video of a woman speaking about how her MIL was killed. The only words are the title and a partial transcript of her spoken words. 

No commentary. 

This happened very close to me.  There are no street lights in the little burg in which she was hit and all local accounts say that she was  crossing the road and actually hit in the road. I remember reminding my kids  when that happened to be very careful when crossing our street or being near it because we also live without street lights. 

Accidents happen and I understand this is painful for the family but this is the first time I have ever heard it tied to an immigration issue.

This happened in a township so it is a different police system than anything happening in the city for what it's worth.  

 

[SKL]

11 minutes ago, maize said:

It's in a section near the top of your article, there's a plus sign next to the section title and you click to expand it, it is labeled "Who are unauthorized immigrants?"

Thanks.  That section says that about 30% of the people included as "unauthorized immigrants" have temporary protection from deportation / temporary permission to be in the US.

[pinball]

45 minutes ago, KSera said:

I read it.

You read a video? 
 

It was a video. You don’t read a video.

[pinball]

46 minutes ago, KSera said:

really odd

😂

[TechWife]

5 hours ago, SKL said:

Per this article, "unauthorized immigrants were 23% of the US foreign-born population in 2022."  I don't have newer numbers, but I suspect this % has increased.

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/07/22/what-we-know-about-unauthorized-immigrants-living-in-the-us/

I certainly didn’t have the entirety of the immigrant population in mind when I said that. The data set includes everyone alive, including naturalized citizens and those who have resided here for long periods of time. They also consider DACA, TPS and asylum seekers in the “unlawful” category. From my personal understanding, once someone has any of those designations, they are no longer undocumented /unlawful. They have both documents and are here under legal provisions in our immigration law.

In any case, I do think my statement over generalized. The stat I had in my memory banks related to the number of undocumented people who are working, not the overall total, that is my error.

 

[MiddleCourt]

5 hours ago, TechWife said:don’t think that documented immigrants should be integrated differently than undocumented. People are people & have the same needs. Statistically, undocumented immigrants are a small proportion of the total immigrant population, in any case.

 

5 hours ago, Carrie12345 said:

Our country actually has a very long history of overall, regional, and hyper-local population booms and busts. That is NOT new.  So, IMO, the question is, what makes this different?

Serious question: Are people not aware of the numbers of people coming in to the country through the southern border? It’s not a few thousand. It’s millions over the last few years. Lots of millions. There is no way 15 million plus people are a low proportion of the immigrant population. Are people also not aware of the major crisis this has caused in places like NYC? Of course this is different than other population booms. Millions of people are not coming to our country and finding housing, employment, healthcare, etc on their own. This is taking massive resources. Yes I know many on the thread are acknowledging this, but some of these comments honestly baffle me. 

[Sneezyone]

12 minutes ago, MiddleCourt said:

 

Serious question: Are people not aware of the numbers of people coming in to the country through the southern border? It’s not a few thousand. It’s millions over the last few years. Lots of millions. There is no way 15 million plus people are a low proportion of the immigrant population. Are people also not aware of the major crisis this has caused in places like NYC? Of course this is different than other population booms. Millions of people are not coming to our country and finding housing, employment, healthcare, etc on their own. This is taking massive resources. Yes I know many on the thread are acknowledging this, but some of these comments honestly baffle me. 

People are aware that there are large numbers of legal and illegal migrants moving about the country at any given time, that there are those serious about addressing the challenges and opportunities that presents and others interested in demagoguery for personal gain. There are lots of potential solutions, one of which was recently stymied by a demagogue.

[Carrie12345]

16 minutes ago, MiddleCourt said:

 

Serious question: Are people not aware of the numbers of people coming in to the country through the southern border? It’s not a few thousand. It’s millions over the last few years. Lots of millions. There is no way 15 million plus people are a low proportion of the immigrant population. Are people also not aware of the major crisis this has caused in places like NYC? Of course this is different than other population booms. Millions of people are not coming to our country and finding housing, employment, healthcare, etc on their own. This is taking massive resources. Yes I know many on the thread are acknowledging this, but some of these comments honestly baffle me. 

My comments have remained specifically and intentionally related to Springfield except where otherwise specified, so I don’t know why you would quote me in this context.

[Heartstrings]

27 minutes ago, MiddleCourt said:

 

Serious question: Are people not aware of the numbers of people coming in to the country through the southern border? It’s not a few thousand. It’s millions over the last few years. Lots of millions. There is no way 15 million plus people are a low proportion of the immigrant population. Are people also not aware of the major crisis this has caused in places like NYC? Of course this is different than other population booms. Millions of people are not coming to our country and finding housing, employment, healthcare, etc on their own. This is taking massive resources. Yes I know many on the thread are acknowledging this, but some of these comments honestly baffle me. 

  But we weren’t discussing immigration in general or as an abstract.  We were discussing this very specific group of Haitians immigrants in Springfield. Since the majority of those are LEGAL immigrants it doesn’t really make sense to be also be discussing illegal immigration as a whole.   Discussing the illegal immigrant crisis in NYC is a very different topics.  
 

We’re discussing waffle recipes and you’re asking why we aren’t mentioning English muffins.  Both are breakfast foods, sure, but they aren’t the same thing.  

Edited September 12 by Heartstrings

[SKL]

12 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

  But we weren’t discussing immigration in general or as an abstract.  We were discussing this very specific group of Haitians immigrants in Springfield. Since the majority of those are LEGAL immigrants it doesn’t really make sense to be also be discussing illegal immigration as a whole.   Discussing the illegal immigrant crisis in NYC is a very different topics.  
 

We’re discussing waffle recipes and you’re asking why we aren’t mentioning English muffins.  Both are breakfast foods, sure, but they aren’t the same thing.  

But if the problem is a shortage or misallocation of flour, then it becomes relevant whether the availability of flour for waffles is being affected by the flour being allocated for English muffins.

[KSera]

45 minutes ago, pinball said:

You read a video? 
 

It was a video. You don’t read a video.

I’ll quote the transcript on the page for you. Yes, I read it:

Quote

 

EXCERPT:

UNKNOWN: "Everyone is talking about the death of ducks and cats in this town, but I’d like to talk about the death of one very special person, my mother-in-law, Kathy Heaton. On December 1st, I received a phone call that changed my life forever. She was collecting her trash can from her driveway when a car struck and killed her instantly. A task she had done over 2,000 times spanning four decades, in Springfield. That morning, though, a Haitian immigrant was allegedly driving recklessly when he struck and killed her. I say allegedly, because to this day there’s been no punishment, not even for the expired tags on the vehicle he was driving. Months before she was killed, I began noticing the reckless driving and complete disregard for our driving laws by some members of the Haitian community. It made me angry. But now my anger has turned to fear for the safety of my family and the citizens of Springfield.”

 

[Rosie_0801]

2 minutes ago, KSera said:

I’ll quote the transcript on the page for you. Yes, I read it:

 

There's no need to prove anything. She'll only laugh at you and/or move the goal posts.

[KSera]

1 minute ago, Rosie_0801 said:

There's no need to prove anything. She'll only laugh at you and/or move the goal posts.

You are, of course, 100% correct. I was telling myself as much as I hit the post button and probably should have hit the cancel button instead.

 

[Sneezyone]

31 minutes ago, SKL said:

But if the problem is a shortage or misallocation of flour, then it becomes relevant whether the availability of flour for waffles is being affected by the flour being allocated for English muffins.

But that isn’t actually a problem, literally or figuratively. We have a misallocation of resource problem and a lack of will to solve it…because brown=scary.

Edited September 12 by Sneezyone

[Sneezyone]

It is both disgraceful and enraging for the current White House press secretary to have to respond to baseless claims/smears about her own ethnic group. We ought to be ashamed. ETA: Aaand she did it with a grace, class, and dignity that those advancing these claims have not displayed.

Edited September 12 by Sneezyone

[MiddleCourt]

49 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

  But we weren’t discussing immigration in general or as an abstract.  We were discussing this very specific group of Haitians immigrants in Springfield. Since the majority of those are LEGAL immigrants it doesn’t really make sense to be also be discussing illegal immigration as a whole.   Discussing the illegal immigrant crisis in NYC is a very different topics.  
 

We’re discussing waffle recipes and you’re asking why we aren’t mentioning English muffins.  Both are breakfast foods, sure, but they aren’t the same thing.  

Well the issues in Springfield aren’t happening in a vacuum. Springfield is happening in the greater context of unprecedented immigration- you cannot ignore that and say (quite condescendingly), “focus on Ohio!” NYC was brought up to illustrate that fact. The country as a whole is struggling with sheer amount of people that have come. The overall general tone of this thread is that immigration is a net positive for the country, and shut up and don’t ask questions if you don’t agree with it.

[Sneezyone]

Just now, MiddleCourt said:

Well the issues in Springfield aren’t happening in a vacuum. Springfield is happening in the greater context of unprecedented immigration- you cannot ignore that and say (quite condescendingly), “focus on Ohio!” NYC was brought up to illustrate that fact. The country as a whole is struggling with sheer amount of people that have come. The overall general tone of this thread is that immigration is a net positive for the country, and shut up and don’t ask questions if you don’t agree with it.

Springfield is the victim of these baseless claims. Haitians are the targets. Do you suppose we should ignore the real and actual harm the entire community is suffering to advance yet more inaccurate and misleading claims or first acknowledge and staunch the bleeding of this community?

[MiddleCourt]

2 minutes ago, MiddleCourt said:

Well the issues in Springfield aren’t happening in a vacuum. Springfield is happening in the greater context of unprecedented immigration- you cannot ignore that and say (quite condescendingly), “focus on Ohio!” NYC was brought up to illustrate that fact. The country as a whole is struggling with sheer amount of people that have come. The overall general tone of this thread is that immigration is a net positive for the country, and shut up and don’t ask questions if you don’t agree with it.

And just to clarify my last statement- I mean the tone is *mass* immigration is a net positive, lest anyone take that in the wrong way. Obviously there is nothing inherently wrong with reasonable immigration.

[Amira]

3 minutes ago, MiddleCourt said:

Well the issues in Springfield aren’t happening in a vacuum. Springfield is happening in the greater context of unprecedented immigration- you cannot ignore that and say (quite condescendingly), “focus on Ohio!” NYC was brought up to illustrate that fact. The country as a whole is struggling with sheer amount of people that have come. The overall general tone of this thread is that immigration is a net positive for the country, and shut up and don’t ask questions if you don’t agree with it.

I’d be happy to have a conversation about immigration policy and its effects in another thread.  For me, this thread has been about fearmongering about a specific group of people in Ohio, which has apparently gone far enough to shut down schools and other government buildings. That’s quite a different thing from immigration policy. 

[TechWife]

This is some follow up info on previous posts about funding avenues for infrastructure.

Ohio has already provided additional resources to Springfield to help with education and training for drivers, to pay for more vaccines and health screenings in schools, and to enhance translation services, explained DeWine. But he’s taking additional action. 

“These dramatic surges impact every citizen of the community, every citizen,” he said, noting additional influxes are occurring in Findlay and Lima, Ohio. “Moms who have to wait hours in a waiting room with a sick child, everyone who drives on the streets, and it affects children who go to school in more crowded classrooms.” 

On Wednesday, the Ohio State Highway Patrol will be dispatched to help local law enforcement with traffic issues that officials say have cropped up due to an increase in Haitians unfamiliar with U.S. traffic laws using the roads. DeWine said he is also earmarking $2.5 million over two years to provide more primary healthcare through the county health department and private healthcare institutions.

https://apnews.com/article/springfield-ohio-haitian-influx-governor-dewine-f5a552d7ebc6e246882dca96a39a3aaa

[MiddleCourt]

29 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Springfield is the victim of these baseless claims. Haitians are the targets. Do you suppose we should ignore the real and actual harm the entire community is suffering to advance yet more inaccurate and misleading claims or first acknowledge and staunch the bleeding of this community?

Huh? I haven’t spoken against helping anyone in Springfield this whole thread. 

[TechWife]

2 hours ago, MiddleCourt said:

 

Serious question: Are people not aware of the numbers of people coming in to the country through the southern border? It’s not a few thousand. It’s millions over the last few years. Lots of millions. There is no way 15 million plus people are a low proportion of the immigrant population. Are people also not aware of the major crisis this has caused in places like NYC? Of course this is different than other population booms. Millions of people are not coming to our country and finding housing, employment, healthcare, etc on their own. This is taking massive resources. Yes I know many on the thread are acknowledging this, but some of these comments honestly baffle me. 

Quite aware. All resources go to something. A lot of us think taking care of immigrants is a good use of resources. Personally, I’d like to see more resources used in the effort. 

[TechWife]

48 minutes ago, MiddleCourt said:

... The overall general tone of this thread is that immigration is a net positive for the country, and shut up and don’t ask questions if you don’t agree with it.

It’s actually a conversation where people have been exchanging information, sometime in an attempt to persuade, other times with the only purpose being just to exchange information. Disagreements, providing info, asking questions of one another, asking for source material,  info, etc. are all part of this thread.  No one has been told to “shut up.” 

[ksr5377]

On 9/11/2024 at 5:42 PM, Sneezyone said:

Just wanted to add that there are devices (beyond google translate) specifically designed to help with this in government settings. Generally licensing exams are issued by the state and not having it translated into a language (by the state) that is known to be in high demand violates the legal residents’ right to access government programs and services. The decision to use French and not translate into creole is a choice (the wrong one) the state is making but I’ve heard fellow practitioners in TN, for ex, say that they refuse to translate vital documents to force the migrants to speak English and reduce use of services to which the residents are entitled.

Thank you for these comments, I made note and will talk to the gentleman I see there often from one of the churches. He provides transportation for many individuals. I'm sure things will get better eventually, but at this point it sems that most of the assistance is from individuals just trying to figure out how to help, but learning what needs to be done as they go. It's wonderful of them but obviously takes more time than a non-profit focused on the issue. 

[Sneezyone]

10 minutes ago, ksr5377 said:

Thank you for these comments, I made note and will talk to the gentleman I see there often from one of the churches. He provides transportation for many individuals. I'm sure things will get better eventually, but at this point it sems that most of the assistance is from individuals just trying to figure out how to help, but learning what needs to be done as they go. It's wonderful of them but obviously takes more time than a non-profit focused on the issue. 

There are certain buzzwords and triggers that may inspire additional action on the part of decision-makers. I can also share the name of the device via PM but don't want to publicly advertise. It's used in many communities, even by border patrol.

[Carrie12345]

1 hour ago, TechWife said:

This is some follow up info on previous posts about funding avenues for infrastructure.

I understand the driving aspect. That’s a big safety issue.

Im having a harder time understanding schools. Are a much larger percentage of the immigrants children than the higher numbers of people who left the area in the same time period?  
Language help, okay. But why are classrooms so much more crowded? Why are health facilities overrun? More new vax appointments do take some time, sure. It might make sense to hold a separate periodic clinic for US routine shots.

[TechWife]

8 hours ago, Carrie12345 said:

Can you be more specific about the differences in those categories?  
As a social work major, I definitely agree one-size isn’t realistic.  
My interest is really getting sucked into the specifics of Springfield and trying to determine what the facts are that are complicating things in comparison to if 15,000 rural or Philadelphian Pennsylvanians moved in over the course of 3 years.

I don’t know specifics about Springfield. My statements are just based in the fact that the actual people are different in each location & therefore don’t follow a template, for lack of a better word. Cultural, religious, family differences play a part in setting priorities of individuals who, in turn, go on to contribute to the priorities of a community, in this case a city. There are as many different possibilities as there are combinations of beliefs & attitudes that lead to actions.

The priorities have an impact on local economies to the extent that they affect policy decisions (through participation in public comment or in elections, for example).  Policy decisions then impact the economy through many mechanisms- tax rates, routine budget funding, zoning regulations, etc. Economic decisions can help, hurt or be neutral with regard to accommodating growth.

Whether or not it’s a popular idea on this particular thread, nation of origin and race do play part in creating culture and prejudice can stymie healthy change that would help communities adjust to new residents. People do “blame racism,” but most often it’s based in either personal experience or direct observation. Our country is littered with evidence of past and present prejudices against different people groups. Such prejudices are regularly featured as components of news stories. 

Geography plays a role in that it can affect development of different types of businesses. Distance to transport corridors (land, air, sea) affect business and quality of life for some people. Proximity to educational opportunities and medical care play a role in how a culture changes and grows. Then you have the underlying geological features in a particular geographical location - water, coal, oil, natural gas, soil quality, precious metals have all impacted the ability to build & sustain a flourishing community. Not only that, but people who live in different locations function as a group differently as far as pooling resources or providing personal support (or not as the case may be).

But, I really digress from your question as I’m sure you’ve thought through a lot of this from your background. It seems there are endless possibilities on the way cultural formation and sustainability are impacted. But, in regard to  specifics on Springfield, I’ve got nothing for you, sorry. 

[Carrie12345]

Adding, since it’s the reference I’ve been using:

 

[Sneezyone]

23 minutes ago, Carrie12345 said:

Adding, since it’s the reference I’ve been using:

 

This is what I've been saying tho. The communities most impacted *ARE* and/or *HAVE BEEN* on the decline. Immigrants are coming to shore up declining tax bases and infrastructure. The Gov. of OH has said the same thing. Rust belt states are aging and whitening as young people moved away and manufacturing declined. What does that mean? It means old/existing teachers who lack experience with other languages are challenged by newcomers who require new skillsets to teach/reach. It means aging doctors (dare I acknowledge the maternity care deserts?) aren't prepared to serve multilingual women of color, of childbearing age, or their children. It means housing that fell into decline and is no longer able to support people is unavailable for rent and price/competition increases for housing. There *are* challenges. The problem, however, isn't the migration, it's the unwillingness and inability to grow, pivot, adapt or change...a lack of imagination, to include providing access to gov't services and information EQUITABLY, in the language(s) used by the migrants.

Edited September 13 by Sneezyone

[TechWife]

24 minutes ago, Carrie12345 said:

I understand the driving aspect. That’s a big safety issue.

Im having a harder time understanding schools. Are a much larger percentage of the immigrants children than the higher numbers of people who left the area in the same time period?  
Language help, okay. But why are classrooms so much more crowded? Why are health facilities overrun? More new vax appointments do take some time, sure. It might make sense to hold a separate periodic clinic for US routine shots.

With schools it could be that the age breakdown  of the population has changed. Maybe it skews younger now and there are more teachers & facilities needed than previously. I think having English language learners also drives a need for specific support in that area, as well as a need to have access to interpreters (which do not have to be in person, there are video services) for parents to communicate with the school.

Im not sure about health facilities, other than maybe a need for different age related services (more pediatricians for example) and again interpreters. Back to school immunization clinics used to be common, but I haven’t seen one that isn’t Covid related in years. 
 

ETA regarding medical needs:

There may have been a reduction in the number of hospital beds in close proximity. Need for medical facilities increases w/population. On the positive side, increasing population may mean the community can better sustain specialty providers like PT, OT, endocrinology, etc. than previously.

Edited September 13 by TechWife

[Sneezyone]

1 minute ago, TechWife said:

With schools it could be that the age breakdown  of the population has changed. Maybe it skews younger now and there are more teachers & facilities needed than previously. I think having English language learners also drives a need for specific support in that area, as well as a need to have access to interpreters (which do not have to be in person, there are video services) for parents to communicate with the school.

Im not sure about health facilities, other than maybe a need for different age related services (more pediatricians for example) and again interpreters. Back to school immunization clinics used to be common, but I haven’t seen one that isn’t Covid related in years. 

Hawaii started school-located influenza clinics years before the pandemic as a proactive measure with a federal grant and 18 months of planning/prep. It can be done. These are choices the locals are making, to rage against change or to embrace it and adapt.

[Heartstrings]

11 minutes ago, Carrie12345 said:

Adding, since it’s the reference I’ve been using:

 

So this is a town that comfortable held this number of people or more not that long ago. So it should have a water treatment plant big enough, plumbing systems, road systems, electrical lines and at least the space for more housing even if some of it needs to be rehabbed or rebuilt.   We used to call that opportunity.  
 

If these were people from say,Iceland displaced by a volcano, this would be considered the perfect spot. 

[Carrie12345]

18 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Rust belt states are aging and whitening as young people moved away and manufacturing declined.

I think I did see you bring up that age shift somewhere, and it just didn’t click in my head the right way. Thanks for taking the time to reiterate!

[Sneezyone]

Just now, Carrie12345 said:

I think I did see you bring up that age shift somewhere, and it just didn’t click in my head the right way. Thanks for taking the time to reiterate!

The same, exact thing happened in Tacoma, WA. Anyone remember the ‘last person in Seattle turn out the lights’ billboard? Yes, this is a thing. Immigration helped, in part, revitalize the area—largely blue collar. Folks have very short memories.