Can we talk ADHD, learning disabilities, etc?

[silver]

This is going to be long.

From my perspective, it looks like my oldest procrastinates to avoid doing work they don't think they're good at. But I'm willing to look into ADHD or learning disabilities.

ADHD
Last night, I had a discussion with them about how they plan to finish the work they have left for English before the new school year starts, and they asked if we can look into ADHD for them.

So we went through this checklist and they scored "often" for four out of the 18 listed symptoms, which looks like it's not enough for a diagnosis There is something going on with this kid, but I have no idea what. If it matters, the items scored as often are 6, 8, 9, and 10.

Reasons I don't think they'd "qualify" for ADHD:

They have a 4.0 in their DE courses. They've taken seven courses DE so far. They had in person lectures for four, online lectures for one, and asynchronous for two. The support I've given is to sit down each week with the syllabus/course calendar and make sure they know what outside of class time work they need to get done. They get the work done, and do well at it. They've done well on timed tests for the classes, often finishing (with an A) well before time is up.

They have As and A-minuses in most of their homeschooled courses. It's just English that has the problem of not getting done.

They work a boring retail job and say that most of the time, they don't have a problem with distraction with duties. 

They are well regarded as hard workers in their (non-sport) extra-curriculars. 

By the list linked, there is no impulsivity. I know that impulsivity is a subtype of ADHD, but it does mean that many of the glaring red flags that I've seen in ADHD kids outside my household are missing.

They never lose things and keep a fairly well organized bedroom.

I've not seen them leave the house late for work/classes/activities. They will be playing computer games or watching videos, and I'm sure they'll lose track of time and be late to work/class/activities, but they always stop on time and get where they need to go either on time or early.

Reasons they think they might have ADHD:

They say that they make careless mistakes when doing math. This is true, but it's not so bad that it's impacting them. They got a 5 on their AP Calculus exam, As in their DE math courses, and 780 on the math section of the SAT. If they were frequently making careless mistakes, I would expect it to be reflected in lower grades/scores. 

They say that they don't know why they can't bring themselves to do the work to finish their English course. 

They say they are forgetful (ex, forgets to respond to text messages when they can't be replied to right away, etc). 

They are very fidgety, and have always been so. 

I don't know much about ADHD, so if you guys think it would be worth pursuing a diagnosis, please let me know.

Writing Based Learning Disability
They have always hated writing. Tears are frequently involved. Lots of unfinished curriculum as we've changed gears midyear to try to find something they can do without it being a battle. There is something going on with this, but I have no idea what it might be. I know that part of the problem is procrastinating so much that the assignment does become harder just due to the time between planning and writing. But there is something going on beyond that. Occasionally, writing will come out easily (often with a motivation of "if you get this amount of writing done, we can take you to do ___ in the evening"). 

Some of the more recent curricula we've tried: WWS (half pace, huge flop, didn't finish), EIW (had to change all writing prompts to be ones they found interesting in order to get the course done, didn't make a difference in writing attitude), Power in Your Hands (was like pulling teeth by the halfway point), IEW SSS (again, pulling teeth by the halfway point). I didn't think EIW was a worthwhile enough curriculum to continue, even though it did get done. With this kid, I do need a curriculum, because when I assign writing work, it feels too arbitrary to them, but if it comes from the curriculum, it has a better chance of getting done; it's something about being able to point to the curriculum and saying, "the curriculum author thought this was a reasonable amount of work for a school year, so this is what you need to get done."

We've used outside graders a few times, and for the six essays/papers graded by others, the grade has always been >90%. 

Handwriting is awful. Not illegible, but kind of embarrassingly bad. 

I know almost nothing about learning disabilities, so I don't even know what information is relevant. 

 

So, what would be the next steps in trying to help this kid? I've known many guys that are really smart, but fail out of college because they can't bring themselves to do the work they don't care about. I don't want my kid to go through that struggle. 

[HomeAgain]

It sounds like a combination of things with this kid, but tbh it mostly sounds like the tears work.  The switch when something gets tedious or hard or they just don't want to do it gives them an out.  And they're finding it an Impossible Task. They've developed an anxiety about writing so even simple assignments are offputting.  They don't have the structure in place to deal with it, and that's where the focus should be directed.

[EKS]

All of that sounds very normal to me.  Careless mistakes in math are extremely common, even among math majors.  Writing is hard, hard enough that even professional writers procrastinate doing it.  And doesn't everyone forget to text people back?

It sounds like the student does well with DE classes.  I'd offload their English courses to DE and see how it goes.

Based on this, it sounds like you have a bright kid who is used to being good at things and who is trying to pathologize what they perceive to be weaknesses.  I think that it is very unlikely that they have ADHD or a writing disability.

[silver]

55 minutes ago, HomeAgain said:

It sounds like a combination of things with this kid, but tbh it mostly sounds like the tears work.  The switch when something gets tedious or hard or they just don't want to do it gives them an out.  And they're finding it an Impossible Task. They've developed an anxiety about writing so even simple assignments are offputting.  They don't have the structure in place to deal with it, and that's where the focus should be directed.

Tears do work, but not because I feel sorry for them! It's mostly that I don't want to fight about this stuff. I do think there is anxiety about writing. Any suggestions/tips/articles/books for how to help them deal with it and get the tasks done?

 

18 minutes ago, EKS said:

All of that sounds very normal to me.  Careless mistakes in math are extremely common, even among math majors.  Writing is hard, hard enough that even professional writers procrastinate doing it.  And doesn't everyone forget to text people back?

It sounds like the student does well with DE classes.  I'd offload their English courses to DE and see how it goes.

Based on this, it sounds like you have a bright kid who is used to being good at things and who is trying to pathologize what they perceive to be weaknesses.  I think that it is very unlikely that they have ADHD or a writing disability.

Yes, I agree that it sounds normal, but I want some other opinions because I don't really know much about this stuff. 

I did offer the choice for this next school year to do English either at the local high school (homeschoolers here can do partial enrollment in public schools) or through the school they do DE courses. They have a bunch of friends at the local high school and have heard enough horror stories about how little gets done, disruptive students, etc. that they didn't want that. They also don't want to do DE, because they know (by looking at rate my professor reviews) those courses will require longer papers than high school level coursework (fewer longer papers vs more shorter papers). The anxiety about writing means longer papers are scarier, and they don't want to do DE English.

[EKS]

3 minutes ago, silver said:

I did offer the choice for this next school year to do English either at the local high school (homeschoolers here can do partial enrollment in public schools) or through the school they do DE courses. They have a bunch of friends at the local high school and have heard enough horror stories about how little gets done, disruptive students, etc. that they didn't want that. They also don't want to do DE, because they know (by looking at rate my professor reviews) those courses will require longer papers than high school level coursework (fewer longer papers vs more shorter papers). The anxiety about writing means longer papers are scarier, and they don't want to do DE English.

I'd stick to your guns on this one.  If the student is planning to go to college, they are going to have to get over the paper writing thing one way or another.  My son's experience with DE composition courses was that they were absolutely doable, and he has dyslexia.  The only way the student is going to learn to deal with their anxiety is to confront it.  Since writing is hard and lots of students have trouble, the school probably has a writing center that can provide support.  

[happypamama]

I think if the kid wants to explore ADHD or a learning disability, it's worth exploring. Ask for an evaluation, and let the professional tell them what's up. Then you can go from there.  The anxiety might warrant some outside help, from meds or some sort of therapist or a writing tutor.

 

Just to note: ADHD kids can do very well in school partly because they can hyper focus for short periods of time. I was an extremely good student, and I check often for five or six of the items on the inattentive part of that checklist. I agree with your assessment that your kid probably doesn't meet criteria for ADHD, but I wanted to point out that excellent students can definitely have ADHD. 

 

I don't know a lot about other learning disabilities, but I think it's worth pursuing that. Start with your kid's doctor and see who does what in your area. I do think if your kid is asking about something regarding their health, it's important to support them in taking charge as they move to adulthood. 

[smfmommy]

Just a thought, my son is very intelligent but also moderately ADHD.  When he was diagnosed she declared him mild ADHD but comparing him to other siblings I would label as moderately ADHD.  The psychiatrist mentioned that high IQ can balance out the ADHD symptom wise.  This could be an issue with your kiddo.

On another note that you mentioned - another of my son's is mildly ADHD (inattentive).  He is actually very good with time management in keeping track of the clock and being ready at a specific time.  Being able to plan how long a project will take, on the other hand, seems to be an impossible task for him.  So ADHD symptoms can be erratic and different for every human.

Not to say your kid has ADHD, but I would research ways to help motivate ADHD kids and see if the suggestions work.  Can't hurt anything and could help. 

[SilverMoon]

I'm currently homeschooling ADHD, ASD, and a few more various acronyms. I'm also not getting any glaring red flags, but it's still totally possible. I would absolutely honor the request for an evaluation. The process can be interesting and informative. 

Fwiw good grades don't rule out ADHD.

[silver]

9 hours ago, happypamama said:

Just to note: ADHD kids can do very well in school partly because they can hyper focus for short periods of time. I was an extremely good student, and I check often for five or six of the items on the inattentive part of that checklist. I agree with your assessment that your kid probably doesn't meet criteria for ADHD, but I wanted to point out that excellent students can definitely have ADHD. 

51 minutes ago, SilverMoon said:

Fwiw good grades don't rule out ADHD.

This is good to know. I know that my niece had a hard time getting her diagnosis, because the pediatrician thought she was doing too well in school for it. So I kind of figured that it would count "against" being able to be diagnosed. 

[Garga]

Get an evaluation. When you look back at this time period, if you didn’t get them evaluated and they’re still struggling, you’ll think to yourself, “Why didn’t I just bite the bullet and get them evaluated?”

If there’s something going on, you’ll want to start support and possibly accommodations for them right away, instead of in their sophomore year of college.

If there’s nothing going on, that will also give you some answers of what to do going forward. 

Either way, I try to think of Future Garga, and whether Future Garga will be kicking herself for not getting something done now. I’ve been in Future Garga’s shoes where I look back and think, “WHY didn’t I just do X??”

People tend to regret what they didn’t do more than what they did do. If your student is asking for an eval, get them an eval. It will give them peace of mind as well.

And I’m not sure, but I think that services/accommodations might be harder to get once a person is 18, so get it done now.

[silver]

Thanks, everyone. We'll bring it up at his doctor's appointment this summer and see if they have a screening tool they prefer and see if they'll give a referral.