Legal question regarding negligence

[Navymom]

My mom passed away at approx. 2:00 AM Saturday morning. I had two requests of the nursing home and hospice care.

1. That my mom be kept as comfortable as possible

2. That when my mom passed, not to call my dad. I let them know that after 64 years of marriage, I felt it was only right and proper to inform him myself, in person.

When they called Sat. morning to let me know she had passed, I again reminded them not to call him, that I would be there first thing in the morning to tell him in person. My dad was aware of this plan. They live/d in the same facility, just separate buildings across the street from each other. Her in the regular nursing home and him in assisted living. 

Well, guess what. Someone called him. He fell trying to answer the phone in the dark and cut his thumb down to the tendon.

Ok, this is awful, but it gets worse. He lives in an assisted care facility that asks residents to wear emergency bracelets and he also has several emergency pull cords in his apartment. He activated the bracelet first, no one came. He pulled the cord in his bathroom, no one came. He made his way from his first floor apartment down to the first floor without his walker to find someone to help him. He eventually found a staff member, who then called me. 

I ended up in the ER with him only an hour or so after my mom passing. He required 7 stitches and will need follow up with an orthopedic surgeon to assess tendon damage.

I had a meeting with director of nursing and the administrator today. They expressed that it shouldn't have happened, but also made the excuse of low staff.  

This is the 2nd time since living there(3 1/2 years) he has called for help and no one arrived. Last time he ended up calling my sister for help.

I am angry over the call and the fall, but not responding to calls for help is where I am struggling. Would you consider this negligence? This is all so fresh that I am having difficulty knowing if I am overreacting or not.

[KSera]

2 minutes ago, Navymom said:

am angry over the call and the fall, but not responding to calls for help is where I am struggling. Would you consider this negligence? This is all so fresh that I am having difficulty knowing if I am overreacting or not.

100% I would consider not responding to calls to be negligence and would absolutely report. I think that’s horrible and you have every right to be angry. 
 

I’m so sorry for your loss and for what you and your dad have gone through at a time when you should be able to be grieving without all of this. 

[TechWife]

Yes. I recommend calling the ombudsman. You should have the contact info on paperwork and it should be posted prominently in the assisted living facility. 

[SKL]

I'm so sorry that all of that happened to your family.

Not a legal opinion, but it sounds like it is worth filing a claim of negligence.  The courts may agree or disagree, but I think it needs to be looked into.

[Katy]

Absolutely it’s negligent. If it’s a licensed nursing home, not just assisted living, you need to complain to the state at a minimum and consider meeting with an attorney. 

[almondbutterandjelly]

I am so sorry this happened.  I do need to reframe this a bit.  Your mom passed.  Someone called your dad shortly afterward.  He fell and hurt himself.  Staff did not respond absolutely immediately, but within an hour of your mom's passing, you all were already at the ER.  This is actually very quick.  In a facility where they are caring for many residents, you do not typically get super prompt care because they are helping others.  So I am not sure that I see this as such an egregious thing.  I mean, I am very sorry it happened.  But it does sound like that's what you get in this type of care situation.  I'm not sure how long he waited before seeking out help on the first floor, but surely not more than a several minutes?  It's not a hospital, and the timing is not so prompt.  It just isn't.  That's the tradeoff.  (My dad was in AL so I do understand.). I am so sorry, though.

[Bambam]

I have an elderly friend in assisted living. She fell in the restroom and it took 2 hours to get to her. The call button got no answer, what finally got answered was her yelling in her room and someone walking by heard and got help. Their excuse? Low staff. 

She is on hospice now - trying to get more help. Of course, hospice isn't providing as much help as she needs, but the assisted living place is not doing the things they are supposed to be doing because ... low staff. 

It seemed to be like that at most places here. Low staff, lots of staff turnover. 

I've offered to help her, but she doesn't want friends helping. She wants family (long story, good family but very busy with all sorts of severe health issues right now so they can't help) or nurse type folks. I can respect that. I've told the family I have a retired nurse friend who helps out folks in this sort of situation - so if they want her number, let me know.  I'm going to say this is a bad situation because of the other severe health issues going on the family - and I don't think any of them are thinking very well. 

Re the notification of your mom's passing to your dad. At the local places, I think the residents must feel they get bonus points if they find out about deaths first and pass that info around.  Basically the news spreads like wildfire. 

Edited July 1 by Bambam

[Harriet Vane]

Definitely negligence. And seriously really unsafe. 

[Navymom]

19 minutes ago, almondbutterandjelly said:

I am so sorry this happened.  I do need to reframe this a bit.  Your mom passed.  Someone called your dad shortly afterward.  He fell and hurt himself.  Staff did not respond absolutely immediately, but within an hour of your mom's passing, you all were already at the ER.  This is actually very quick.  In a facility where they are caring for many residents, you do not typically get super prompt care because they are helping others.  So I am not sure that I see this as such an egregious thing.  I mean, I am very sorry it happened.  But it does sound like that's what you get in this type of care situation.  I'm not sure how long he waited before seeking out help on the first floor, but surely not more than a several minutes?  It's not a hospital, and the timing is not so prompt.  It just isn't.  That's the tradeoff.  (My dad was in AL so I do understand.). I am so sorry, though.

I am not sure how many others they could have been helping at 2 am. and it is not the first time this has happened.

[MercyA]

I'm so very sorry for your loss. You are not overreacting. Hugs to you.

[Lecka]

I think there’s even a duty to help others in the facility who might not be able to make it to the front desk on their own.  

[gardenmom5]

I'm very sorry for your loss.

One thing you might want to consider, is if you do file a complaint you may need to move your father to another facility to make sure there is no retaliation against him.   

[Katy]

I wouldn’t worry so much about retaliation. 

[City Mouse]

While I think the not responding could be negligent, it may depend on what the AL promised as far as response time. I know at my parents’ AL there was only 1 or 2 people on staff at night, so if they were assisting another resident, responding might take a while. 
 

I’d be more upset that someone at the nursing home called him after you specifically told them not to call. 
 

Also, what did he fall on that he cut himself so badly? My father fell several times while in AL, but his wounds were always from hitting the ground. One time he hit his head on a door and got a good gash, but his hands were never more than scraped.

Edited July 1 by City Mouse

[Scarlett]

I am so sorry for your loss.   ((((Hugs))))

[Ausmumof3]

Not responding to the calls is definitely negligence. What if he had just cut his head open or was having a heart attack and only just managed to hit the alarm!!! I’m sick of low staff being an excuse foe everything. Half the reason for low staff is carelessness with infection control and not paying enough anyway. 

[*****]

8 hours ago, Navymom said:

They live/d in the same facility, just separate buildings across the street from each other. Her in the regular nursing home and him in assisted living. 

I'm sorry about your mom and that this happened to your dad.  So this facility did 2 things wrong, it wasn't just about 'low staffing'.   A call to an elderly person in the middle of the night to tell them their wife had passed, but no one thought to look out for their own resident (even though he was in another building)  is absurd.  Surely they must have some training as to the emotional needs of the elderly when spouses pass.  You met with the director who should have been embarrassed about both of these things happening and should have assured you they would work harder for this never to happen again.  Receiving 2 calls from your dad should have tipped them off that he needed checking on right away.

I would follow up with ombudsman so others are aware and can help to make changes . I would also visit your dad more often if I were you (or other family members) to keep our presence known. 

[Soror]

I'm sorry for your loss and the stress of it all.

It sounds like negligence to me.

[Melissa in Australia]

so sorry 

hugs

[Kareni]

My sympathies to you and your father, @Navymom, in this sad time.

Regards,

Kareni

[J-rap]

I'm so very sorry.  My heart goes out to you.  

I'd be more concerned about them not responding quickly to your dad's fall.

I was in a similar situation in the fall/winter, with my mother in LTC and my dad in an independent apartment across the street (same facility).  My sister had just lost her child and was grieving, but her being the oldest and closest was always called for emergencies regarding my parents.  I probably told the staff 20 times to call ME, not my sister, but they still called her every other time.  It's like their computer system kept reverting to my sister who was closest and originally named the first-to-call, even though they had notes written into their program to call me.  During emergency situations, I think they don't read all the notes; they just go to the computer-generated family member or whatever the facility protocol is.  (Which might be calling the spouse.)

But not responding to your dad's fall (for an hour?) does seem negligent.  What's the point of an emergency call button if they take so long to respond?  That's what I'd focus on.

In my situation, it was my dad who ended up dying, although he was in the hospital and then rehab unit of a care facility for two months first.  Between his situation and my mother's, I did develop more of an understanding of how the staff works hard to provide good service...  but with so many residents and a staff that is fewer in numbers to residents, I know they can't get everything done in the time frame I desire.

But again, it seems like responding to the emergency call button should be treated as an emergency and responded to quickly.

 

[wathe]

Regarding calling your dad to notify of death of your mom:

I wonder if he was listed as her next of kin?   Was listed as her legal substitute decision maker?  I wonder if there was a policy or legal requirement for the facility to notify him, despite your request not to.

Hospitals run into this not infrequently: son or daughter (or very often daughter-in-law) is the person who is actually making decisions and driving care, but the frail spouse is the person formally listed as next-of-kin or person-to-notify in the records.   So frail spouse is who gets called.

[wathe]

One hour from time of death to notification to fall to call for help with no response to seeking help to arriving in ED also seems very fast to me.  I wonder how long did the call for help go unanswered?  A few minutes?  Half an hour? Longer than that?  

I agree with PP that clarification regarding expected response time to calls for help at this facility is needed, and clarification regarding how long the call went unanswered is needed, before opining on whether or not facility was negligent.

[Catwoman]

I'm so sorry. I wish there was something comforting I could say to you, but you are going through so much right now. I don't know anything about the legal definition of negligence, but I hope you're able to take some kind of action that will give you some satisfaction. It's just an awful time for you. 😞 

[Navymom]

1 hour ago, wathe said:

Regarding calling your dad to notify of death of your mom:

I wonder if he was listed as her next of kin?   Was listed as her legal substitute decision maker?  I wonder if there was a policy or legal requirement for the facility to notify him, despite your request not to.

Hospitals run into this not infrequently: son or daughter (or very often daughter-in-law) is the person who is actually making decisions and driving care, but the frail spouse is the person formally listed as next-of-kin or person-to-notify in the records.   So frail spouse is who gets called.

No, I was listed as her medical POA and the first name on the list to call, and had instructed both hospice & the facility not to call him and they agreed. Plus, I reminded them AGAIN when they notified me to not call him. I am pretty sure they called me first, then him, although I am not sure of the exact timeline, I would have to check the time of the incoming call on his end.

I am kind of over that part. The part I am still struggling with is not responding to his calls for help. 

The nursing director and the administrator admitted it should not have happened the way it did. 

I got the call she had passed at 2:24 am and then the call that he had fallen and need to go to the ER at 3:07 am. 

I think that he probably got the call within a minute or so of 2:24 am, fell on the way to answering it, immediately hit the emergency button, no one came-then pulled the emergency cord In the bathroom and waited, no one came and then made his way to the first floor looking for help. So, he waited around 40 min. or so for help.

 

Edited July 2 by Navymom