Dress codes in schools

[HomeAgain]

6 minutes ago, Shelydon said:

Here, teen boys wear short shorts, crop tees, and holey pants that show large amounts of undies.  The girls ages 10 and up wear shorts that are very close to thongs.  I think requiring all kids to wear clothes that cover your underwear and butt are appropriate. Its okay if you don't, just don't join a group that requires it. No one is forced to attend our homeschool group, they can make one themselves that allows people to wear bikinis to class if they want . 

The segregation of the requirements is sexist.  Intentionally pointing out 'bra straps' instead of a catch all of 'undergarments' is gender based and sexual in nature.  Micromanaging something that isn't unsanitary or doesn't impede learning is a concern.  Not creating on a policy that does encourage appropriate wear for a learning environment is concerning.  When a policy is focused on what to wear with minimal 'don'ts', it keeps it more in line with expectations.  For example: children should wear
Closed-toed shoes -for activity-based lessons and use of tools

Garments that offer protection - Pants in the kitchen and wood working room, short or long sleeves for outside.

Hats, jackets as necessary.

 

These cover the same rules, but don't separate based on gender or how we are perceived s*xually....er, sorry.  "modestly".  Which is essentially the same thing.

And effectively saying "if people don't like that we s*xualize children they can go somewhere else" is a VERY bold thought to associate with a homeschool group.  But you're right, people can look at the learning environment and most certainly, definitely, choose something that meets their ethical and moral standards for group education.

[Bootsie]

2 hours ago, wathe said:

My kids' public school dress code is very basic:

• No exposed underwear
• No spikes or chains
• No offensive or inappropriate content (pertains to graphics or logos)

I am bothered by gendered dress codes.  IME these are an equity issue; inevitably cause the the girls' bodies to be policed.

ETA: Some of the girls wear some pretty eye-popping outfits - short shorts, tiny tops etc.  But, that's their perogative.  We're pretty liberal.  My kids are free dress however they want; but they are aware that others will pass judgement and that those judgements may influence their reality (opportunities, getting the benefit of the doubt, credibility, reputation), and that no matter how unfair that feels, it's the way life is.

But what does this mean?  I can't wear a gold chain around my neck?  I can't have a key chain attached to my pocket?  I can't spike my hair?  I can't wear spike heels?  Who determines what is offensive?  Who determines what is anappropriate.  

I realize that there are some examples that most (but perhaps not all) of us would label as inappropriate or offensive.  But, there are also many things that some of us would consider inappropriate and others of us would not.  

[Kanin]

54 minutes ago, Bootsie said:

I realize that there are some examples that most (but perhaps not all) of us would label as inappropriate or offensive.  But, there are also many things that some of us would consider inappropriate and others of us would not.  

And that's the thing... dress codes are so opinion-based, and everyone has a different opinion. 

1 hour ago, HomeAgain said:

The segregation of the requirements is sexist.  Intentionally pointing out 'bra straps' instead of a catch all of 'undergarments' is gender based and sexual in nature. 

 Fully agree with this! Our current dress code does refer to "undergarments."

But I'm wondering what the argument is for not showing undergarments. I mean, I get that it might be distracting, but it's not dangerous.

[Shelydon]

50 minutes ago, Kanin said:

And that's the thing... dress codes are so opinion-based, and everyone has a different opinion. 

 Fully agree with this! Our current dress code does refer to "undergarments."

But I'm wondering what the argument is for not showing undergarments. I mean, I get that it might be distracting, but it's not dangerous.

We have found that if we don't specifically include " your bra should not show", then kids show up in just a sports bra.  Here, It is very common for kids to show up to events sports bras. In my opinion, a sports bra is not appropriate for math class.   We have tried less restrictive language, but then students argue, so it ends up needing to be more restrictive. 

As a teacher, I don't to see anyone's butt, boobs, chest, stomach, pubic hair. I don't know why such short shorts or holey shorts are so popular among both boys and girls. 

[SKL]

49 minutes ago, Kanin said:

But I'm wondering what the argument is for not showing undergarments. I mean, I get that it might be distracting, but it's not dangerous.

At some point, it isn't fair to require everyone to look at your underwear.

Public schools need to consider the fact that kids don't have a right to opt out of getting an education.  Most don't have a realistic homeschooling option.  Public schools have to be reasonably accessible to all, and that includes not allowing things that are patently offensive to a large proportion of the general community.

For that matter, should teachers be required to look at that?  I don't think they should.

And we could also argue that "offensive language" on t-shirts isn't dangerous either.  Nobody ever died from sitting in the same room with a t-shirt promoting illegal drugs, rape, or the murder of ___ class of people.

And furthermore, depending on the situation, not wearing clothes that at lest cover one's underwear can be a sanitary issue / can be harmful.

[AmandaVT]

5 hours ago, wathe said:

My kids' public school dress code is very basic:

• No exposed underwear
• No spikes or chains
• No offensive or inappropriate content (pertains to graphics or logos)

I am bothered by gendered dress codes.  IME these are an equity issue; inevitably cause the the girls' bodies to be policed.

ETA: Some of the girls wear some pretty eye-popping outfits - short shorts, tiny tops etc.  But, that's their perogative.  We're pretty liberal.  My kids are free dress however they want; but they are aware that others will pass judgement and that those judgements may influence their reality (opportunities, getting the benefit of the doubt, credibility, reputation), and that no matter how unfair that feels, it's the way life is.

Ours is similar, although there's no mention of chains or spikes. 

No heelies (the shoes with the roller skate wheels that pop out) 

No clothing that has alcohol, tobacco, weapons, or illegal drug images/language on them

No clothing with hate speech, depicting violence, or profanity

No exposing the chest, buttocks, or underwear

The area that we struggle with the most is kids coming in wearing clothing with drugs/alcohol/cigarette company logos/etc on them. One student had a Playboy bunny image shaved into his hair; that was an interesting one. With the election season ramping up, I'm curious if it's going to be as contentious as 2020. We had students coming in with offensive messages on their shirts and had to fight the "it's my First Amendment right!" argument with parents and kids on more than one occasion.

[HomeAgain]

Boys showing their underwear has become very common among ds and his friends here, and not because they want to.  DS is very tall and skinny.  Most of the shorts we saw in his size had a 6.5-7in inseam this year.  His underwear comes down mid-thigh. The choice is often between wearing basketball shorts that will ride up and show his underwear or summer shorts that will show his underwear because they're just about the same length, but not always.  He has 3 pairs of longer shorts that we found for him (YAY).

When clothing companies make longer clothes, it's less of an issue. But then there's the economics of the clothing industry.  Longer clothes = more material = more costly to make = cut into profits from the inflated prices. Nearly every girl I saw at ds's graduation was wearing a variation of a babydoll style sundress that came to barely midthigh.  It was noticeable to all the parents how closely their dresses resembled each others. I don't believe all the girls in his grade are friends, but I do believe they all shop at the same mall and had the same options available. 

[Terabith]

Our public school system's dress code is pretty reasonable.  I don't actually even remember what it was because it wasn't ever an issue.  But the Catholic school my kids attended for grades 3-6 and 4-8 respectively was nuts.  Most of the time it was just uniforms, which was fine, other than finding shoes that worked with the dress code (100% white for the first few years, eventually they started allowing 100% black) was a nightmare.  The other issue was we pulled my youngest after sixth grade for financial reasons, but I think we would have had to anyway because she gained a lot of weight when she hit puberty and the official uniform did not come in adult plus sizes, and there literally were no allowed uniforms that would have fit her after sixth grade.  

 But the bane of my existence was "out of uniform days."  They still had to follow the "dress code" that was random and arbitrary and enforced in a draconian fashion.  My oldest child wore a tshirt with Harry Potter on it for a literacy day and got written up because Harry Potter's wand was considered a weapon.  My youngest child was written up for wearing Land's End knit pants (suitable for professional wear) because they were deemed "sweat pants," because they didn't have a button at the waist.  My kids eventually decided that they would not participate in out of uniform days.  

[73349]

On 6/15/2024 at 4:58 PM, Kanin said:

I've been searching on Old Navy, Target, Walmart, etc. and am having trouble finding shorts with a 5-inch inseam. The longer ones are all uniform-types.

If you search the boys' section, there are more options. Walmart has 8" and 9" inseams. Target, too.

[SKL]

4 hours ago, Terabith said:

But the bane of my existence was "out of uniform days."  They still had to follow the "dress code" that was random and arbitrary and enforced in a draconian fashion.  My oldest child wore a tshirt with Harry Potter on it for a literacy day and got written up because Harry Potter's wand was considered a weapon.  My youngest child was written up for wearing Land's End knit pants (suitable for professional wear) because they were deemed "sweat pants," because they didn't have a button at the waist.  My kids eventually decided that they would not participate in out of uniform days.  

 

My kids never participated in "dress down days," because the options were all stuff they wouldn't normally wear.  And damned if I was going to go buy stuff they would never wear outside of "dress down days."  Field trip dress codes were bad enough.  My kids hated jeans and regular pants.  They would wear leggings, but leggings without a skirt over them were not allowed, ever.  So might as well wear regular everyday dresses/skirts with leggings.

My kids' friend had sensory issues and would only wear soft yoga type pants.  These were not allowed.  (This was in lower elementary.)  Her mom went to the office and got an exception.

(Thought I'd post a photo of how my kids would wear leggings, for context.  I don't see the problem.)

 

[Kanin]

12 hours ago, 73349 said:

If you search the boys' section, there are more options. Walmart has 8" and 9" inseams. Target, too.

Thanks, I meant for girls. 

[Heartstrings]

On 6/16/2024 at 7:44 AM, HomeAgain said:

there is a lack of emphasis on a child's job.  Children should be wearing things that don't look professional, but encourage play and physical work.  A stricter dress code emphasizes the need to keep clothes in perfect order.

Yes! So much this.  

[Heartstrings]

12 hours ago, 73349 said:

If you search the boys' section, there are more options. Walmart has 8" and 9" inseams. Target, too.

 I know everyone says little boys and girls are the same shape until puberty but I haven’t found that to be the case. My 8 year old already has some natural “curves” (pre-curves?) and a booty compared to her same age boy cousin, despite showing absolutely no sign of puberty and boys shorts don’t fit her properly.  They are overly tight in the wrong areas and overly loose in others.  They are also weird feeling when she needs to do a million cartwheels instead of walking from point A to point B.  🤣.   Just wear boy clothes isn’t always a great option.  It would cover her but would be uncomfortable and restrict her preferred movement.  

[HomeAgain]

3 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

 I know everyone says little boys and girls are the same shape until puberty but I haven’t found that to be the case. My 8 year old already has some natural “curves” (pre-curves?) and a booty compared to her same age boy cousin, despite showing absolutely no sign of puberty and boys shorts don’t fit her properly.  They are overly tight in the wrong areas and overly loose in others.  They are also weird feeling when she needs to do a million cartwheels instead of walking from point A to point B.  🤣.   Just wear boy clothes isn’t always a great option.  It would cover her but would be uncomfortable and restrict her preferred movement.  

And it goes the other way, too.  DS plays hockey and has thighs and a rear.  There was a day about a year ago or so where he walked out of his room wearing a pair of jeans and I was thrilled to see they fit him so well.  No weird bunching, just a great pair of pants on him.  I took a closer look so I could see where we bought them and get more.

 

They were mine.  The kid was wearing my jeans and rocking them.  🤣

It's no wonder the uniform of choice is athletic shorts until January and then pajama pants after that.

[Heartstrings]

51 minutes ago, HomeAgain said:

And it goes the other way, too.  DS plays hockey and has thighs and a rear.  There was a day about a year ago or so where he walked out of his room wearing a pair of jeans and I was thrilled to see they fit him so well.  No weird bunching, just a great pair of pants on him.  I took a closer look so I could see where we bought them and get more.

 

They were mine.  The kid was wearing my jeans and rocking them.  🤣

It's no wonder the uniform of choice is athletic shorts until January and then pajama pants after that.

My thicker thighed boys have found that Wrangler brand loose fit are the best jeans for their bodies.  Old Navy jeans would rip at the seams from normal movement.  One of them has taken to American Eagle but my mom opinion is they are a bit too tight.