Wwyd work edition

[saraha]

At my job, we host about 10 tours a season with 50-100 people. For the previous seasons, the subway in town catered and delivered for them flawlessly. The owners sold right at the beginning of the summer. My “boss” (we are three employees at this place, the real boss, him, and me.) Started telling tour groups to check with subway hint hint before booking. This is outside his realm of responsibility, we are only to offer up subway if someone asks for recommendations, we have absolutely nothing to do with the booking of or working with caterers At all except to open the door for them.

Word got back to him that new owners (who are foreign Incidentally, which language barriers might have come into play) said they wouldn’t be delivering meals up to our site. He starts telling people who call that subway won’t cater, instead of letting the tours figure out their own needs. Once again, outside his realm. 
In the meantime, a lady he absolutely does not like catches wind, alters her website and starts offering box lunches from her coffee shop. One of the tours he “tipped off” contracted with her and she did a fantastic job with lunches. 

Shortly after, our biggest and most frequent tour company also discovers her and starts talking to her. At the same time, another tour company talks to subway, realizes the no delivery was a misunderstanding, they meant general delivery not catering, and books subway.  “Boss man” finds out subway IS catering, calls our biggest tour company (who has already started talking to the lady) and says “Good news! Subway is catering! You don’t want to use that woman anyway, we don’t think she can handle a job as big as yours” ONCE AGAIN definitely outside our job duties. He is absolutely inserting himself. Big tour company drops lady and goes back to subway.

First tour to book with lady came today. Lady and assistant show up to get ready. She asks boss man why does he think big tour company dropped her. He says to her, “Oh, they dropped you? I don’t know anything about it, we don’t get involved with the catering. Then tells her he hopes things look up and that if he hears about any business, he’ll send it her way” when he 100% started all of this trouble in the first place with his self important meddling. Then, when the woman from todays tour company compliments the meals, he says to her “yeah, we didn’t think she could pull it off, but she did this time. You know, subway is catering after all of that is more appealing to you.” She gives him a weird look and says thanks. Catering Lady didn’t hear him. Lady’s lunches are superior to subways, you get a sandwich, a really nice green salad with tomatoes and cucumbers, and a generous bowl of freah fruit. Subway you get a sandwich, chips and a cookie.

He goes back to the office and I try to encourage the lady. She is the only other person in town who can do box lunches, we only have a McDonald’s, subway, her and a bar. It just seems so wrong that he has the power to affect her business negatively just because he doesn’t like her.

I guess typing it out, there really isn’t anything to do, but it just seems wrong. Like I really want to do something that would help this lady if I could. If there were problems with the food or building etc, I could see steering people away if they asked, but since the catering is 100% none of our business, it doesn’t seem right that he meddled in a way that cost subway some business and then turned around and potentially cost her some business, all because he likes to be the big man. 🤷🏼‍♀️

Edited June 10 by saraha

[saraha]

After the event I did message her business page and pass on the unsolicited compliments I received. These people had been on tour for five days already, so they must have really liked the quality.

Im pretty sure mentioning it to our real boss won’t do anything, but part of me feels like telling her that our site is purposefully tanking her chances seems wrong. I am hoping a new tour company working with us this summer did contract with her at least as boss man also sent them an email after they booked with boss lady to tell them subway wasn’t catering. Later when they came to visit the sight, he asked them did they find someone and they just said yea but wouldn’t say who.

Edited June 10 by saraha

[QueenCat]

He is way out of bounds with what he is doing. Document and let the top boss know.

[scholastica]

1 minute ago, QueenCat said:

He is way out of bounds with what he is doing. Document and let the top boss know.

This!!

[saraha]

Just now, QueenCat said:

He is way out of bounds with what he is doing. Document and let the top boss know.

Oh he absolutely is, all because he likes to feel like he has the insiders knowledge. You should see him kiss up to the tour group leaders that come here, it’s smarmy and unprofessional. He has always been like this, my dh says since high school, manufacturing drama so he can “save the day”

[saraha]

I’m not sure how to document, I only know about the email because he accuse left his private email open on our shared laptop. It’s all just stuff I’ve overheard.

[gardenmom5]

I agree with document and tell your boss.  You're not in position to do much else.
But - if he continues to bad mouth other vendors, the tour group leaders are going to start to wonder how reliable he is and a good chance they'll make efforts to avoid him.  And your own business.

[gardenmom5]

Names, dates, times, method of how you came by the information.  what happened, outcomes, etc.

[scholastica]

5 minutes ago, saraha said:

I’m not sure how to document, I only know about the email because he accuse left his private email open on our shared laptop. It’s all just stuff I’ve overheard.

Write it all out and have a face to face with your boss. If you remember dates, great. You can tell her you overheard and don’t have actual documentation, but that you thought she should be aware.

[bolt.]

I'm not sure I understand.

I get that it is not part of the professional paid-for services that your company provides, that anyone should help or make recommendations about catering. It's not the company's responsibility, and it has been a practice in the past to stay out of that side of 'other things' that another company would need to secure in order to offer a good tour.

I get that a general reason not to make recommendations in this near-professional way (when it's not actually a product or service you offer) is that if the recommendation goes wrong, it could blow back on the reputation of your company. That makes what he's doing kind of unwise business-wise.

What I don't get is why you seem to be thinking he absolutely can't do it if he wants to. If he wants to take a risk of recommending something that can blow back, I mean, it's kind of stupid, but it's not a violation of professional ethics or a workplace code or policy or something -- is it?

You seem to think it's wrong because he's got personal reasons to promote one business over another. But it's not actually wrong (at any moral or professional level) to try to build up people's business because you like them. And while it is somewhat morally wrong to tear down someone's business because you don't like them or don't believe in them... it's wrong on the level of a personal moral code: which some people have and some people don't. Nobody gets reported to their boss for not having a great personal moral code.

In my opinion, since it's now okay for employees to give general info about catering to these tour companies, it might be good for you to start doing the same. If you think the box lunches are a better product, there's no reason for you not to say so. (Unless there is a 'silence on catering' official policy that I don't know about yet.) Maybe some emails now go out with: "There are x number of capable food outlets locally that past clients have used. X company offers this at this contact info. Y company offers that at that contact info. There may be other options: if you find another one that you are pleased with, please let us know. Our Company is not affiliated with these other companies and is not responsible for you catering choices in any way."

[kbutton]

If you document with your boss, she could potentially institute a policy about supporting all the local businesses and not speaking negatively. In a small town, that’s important, and a tourist can leave a Google review or Trip Advisor review when they need specific information.

[saraha]

34 minutes ago, bolt. said:

In my opinion, since it's now okay for employees to give general info about catering to these tour companies, it might be good for you to start doing the same. If you think the box lunches are a better product, there's no reason for you not to say so. (Unless there is a 'silence on catering' official policy that I don't know about yet.) Maybe some emails now go out with: "There are x number of capable food outlets locally that past clients have used. X company offers this at this contact info. Y company offers that at that contact info. There may be other options: if you find another one that you are pleased with, please let us know. Our Company is not affiliated with these other companies and is not responsible for you catering choices in any way."

I would go that route if I could, but I only work weekends and big tours through the week. Pretty much all scheduling calls come during business hours during the week and are handled by boss man.

If asked, I do t see a problem sharing that subway is an option, but I definitely take umbrage with calling a tour group, reporting on what is going on with another business and whether they may or may not be catering, that literally doesn’t have anything to do with us. I also have a problem with him talking disparagingly about another business, it’s just so unprofessional and kind of mean.

[alisoncooks]

Maybe play it up like: “Wow, this tourist group *really* liked Box Lady’s meals! We are lucky that our site has two options for lunch catering. That’s could be a real selling point.”

Maybe he could see the benefit of having two options to suggest to groups. 

Do you know why he doesn’t like Box Lady? He is coming across as unprofessional, but I suppose it all could depend on why he doesn’t want her to get business. 

[pinball]

I think the best route is confirm with the legit boss, not the know-it-all, what the policy is regarding referrals to other businesses.

Make sure it is in writing and that all employees know the policy.

IIRC, you are a historical site. It seems like it’d be better to stay neutral about meal choices and neither subtly nor overtly support or torpedo other businesses.

[mmasc]

14 hours ago, saraha said:

Oh he absolutely is, all because he likes to feel like he has the insiders knowledge. You should see him kiss up to the tour group leaders that come here, it’s smarmy and unprofessional. He has always been like this, my dh says since high school, manufacturing drama so he can “save the day”

Wow, this guy sounds like a real piece of work. 🙄I’m assuming he’s the one you’ve also posted about before. I’m sorry you have to work with such an unsavory character, but I’d probably tell the big boss about this one. At the very least, I’d remind this guy that we’re only supposed to offer choices (BOTH choices it seems to me) when your guides ask. I mean, what’s he going to do, fire you?? I take it he doesn’t have that power, but I could have read the dynamic wrong. 

[saraha]

13 hours ago, alisoncooks said:

Maybe play it up like: “Wow, this tourist group *really* liked Box Lady’s meals! We are lucky that our site has two options for lunch catering. That’s could be a real selling point.”

Maybe he could see the benefit of having two options to suggest to groups. 

Do you know why he doesn’t like Box Lady? He is coming across as unprofessional, but I suppose it all could depend on why he doesn’t want her to get business. 

I don’t know why, but they both live in the little town where our site is and he didn’t like her before she opened her coffee shop up last summer, I remember him going on about how she won’t last etc.

13 hours ago, mmasc said:

Wow, this guy sounds like a real piece of work. 🙄I’m assuming he’s the one you’ve also posted about before. I’m sorry you have to work with such an unsavory character, but I’d probably tell the big boss about this one. At the very least, I’d remind this guy that we’re only supposed to offer choices (BOTH choices it seems to me) when your guides ask. I mean, what’s he going to do, fire you?? I take it he doesn’t have that power, but I could have read the dynamic wrong. 

He is definitely a piece of work. I have been working on a time consuming project at work when I’m not on a tour, so so far this season I have been able to somewhat limit our interactions.
 

He definitely can’t fire me, and I know that the state Historical Society has gotten two complaint calls about him and boss lady confided that if he gets one more they will force her hand to fire him. I had gone to her to complain about him pushing me while I was talking to a frustrated visitor. He didn’t like the way I was solving the man’s problem (which boss lady confirmed I was doing correctly) and he was going to help the man himself. He knew he crossed a line that day and brought me lunch while out on his lunch break to make up to me🙄 She did not say anything to him about it, that I know of, but he did get an earful from me and has kept his space since. Knowing he’s got two strikes, the petty part of me wants to make a call to the state.

ETA: I wouldn’t really call the state. He just gets on my nerves and is so over the top.

Edited June 12 by saraha

[wintermom]

49 minutes ago, saraha said:

He definitely can’t fire me, and I know that the state Historical Society has gotten two complaint calls about him and boss lady confided that if he gets one more they will force her hand to fire him. I had gone to her to complain about him pushing me while I was talking to a frustrated visitor. He didn’t like the way I was solving the man’s problem (which boss lady confirmed I was doing correctly) and he was going to help the man himself. He knew he crossed a line that day and brought me lunch while out on his lunch break to make up to me🙄 She did not say anything to him about it, that I know of, but he did get an earful from me and has kept his space since. Knowing he’s got two strikes, the petty part of me wants to make a call to the state.

I think the physical shoving should be reported. That is completely out of line and a BIG no no. Physical intimidation/abuse should be documented and addressed, and if the boss didn't do it, you really should to have an official paper trail. 

[saraha]

He has set up a sweet spot for himself. He got hired just as our visitor center was being built. The property, visitor center and house/museum are all owned by the state historical society, but the site is run by a nonprofit that boss lady started in the 1980’s. The nonprofit is governed by a small board and oversees two places, my site and a little town museum that is only open 1 day a week. The state doesn’t have much to say about the day to day running of the site other than collecting our attendance numbers, going over our books at the end of the year and periodic spot checks. There is some kind of contract between the two entities.

As the visitor center was being built, boss lady (who absolutely cannot deal with confrontation or basically anything unpleasant) leaned on him hard to communicate with tradesmen, the state, etc.  In the process he learned all of the ins and outs of everything from the cash register to the security system and he closely guards that information. He didn’t let me learn to run the cash register til he got in a car accident last summer and had to miss a day of work. Boss lady doesn’t know how any of it works. So if she were to fire him, she would have to close the center until she could figure out something else. Because of this, he gets away with whatever he wants. I am absolutely capable of taking over his place, but I don’t want to. There are two employees, me and him. We answer to boss lady who answers to a small board and supposedly a rep for the state, although I’ve never seen her and only heard her mentioned once.

As for the pushing, I did write down a statement and gave it to boss lady, who did I don’t know what with it. It isn’t on camera as I was standing in a blind spot, so is my word against his.

[wintermom]

11 minutes ago, saraha said:

He has set up a sweet spot for himself. He got hired just as our visitor center was being built. The property, visitor center and house/museum are all owned by the state historical society, but the site is run by a nonprofit that boss lady started in the 1980’s. The nonprofit is governed by a small board and oversees two places, my site and a little town museum that is only open 1 day a week. The state doesn’t have much to say about the day to day running of the site other than collecting our attendance numbers, going over our books at the end of the year and periodic spot checks. There is some kind of contract between the two entities.

As the visitor center was being built, boss lady (who absolutely cannot deal with confrontation or basically anything unpleasant) leaned on him hard to communicate with tradesmen, the state, etc.  In the process he learned all of the ins and outs of everything from the cash register to the security system and he closely guards that information. He didn’t let me learn to run the cash register til he got in a car accident last summer and had to miss a day of work. Boss lady doesn’t know how any of it works. So if she were to fire him, she would have to close the center until she could figure out something else. Because of this, he gets away with whatever he wants. I am absolutely capable of taking over his place, but I don’t want to. There are two employees, me and him. We answer to boss lady who answers to a small board and supposedly a rep for the state, although I’ve never seen her and only heard her mentioned once.

As for the pushing, I did write down a statement and gave it to boss lady, who did I don’t know what with it. It isn’t on camera as I was standing in a blind spot, so is my word against his.

You could always look for another job, I guess, if it's too challenging to deal with him or the entire situation. You ain't gonna change him, though. He'll probably get worse the longer he has all this power.

[saraha]

14 minutes ago, wintermom said:

You could always look for another job, I guess, if it's too challenging to deal with him or the entire situation. You ain't gonna change him, though. He'll probably get worse the longer he has all this power.

I agree. Other than dealing with him, I really really enjoy my job. It is very rewarding, never gets boring, and let’s me flex my strengths. I spent weeks going back and forth about coming back this season, even talking to boss lady about it, but ultimately decided the pros outweigh the cons. For now at least. I did threaten to quit after him thinking he could just shove me out of the way, but ultimately decided to give it two more weekends and he has been on his best behavior with me. Of course he knows I could probably escalate the situation so he has an incentive to leave me alone

[QueenCat]

I could always take a field trip to your location & complain about him afterward. 

[fairfarmhand]

8 minutes ago, QueenCat said:

I could always take a field trip to your location & complain about him afterward. 

I think this should be a summer time wtm project.

[QueenCat]

2 minutes ago, fairfarmhand said:

I think this should be a summer time wtm project.

YES!!! From prior convos, I think I'm only a couple of hours, at most, from the location in question.

Slumber party at my house.

[saraha]

I would love if you guys came! Not just to get at him, I would love to meet up! But we really do have a very nice site and I can be a very engaging tour guide if I do day so myself. 😉

[QueenCat]

Just now, saraha said:

I would love if you guys came! Not just to get at him, I would love to meet up! But we really do have a very nice site and I can be a very engaging tour guide if I do day so myself. 😉

I do want to explore of Ohio's UR history. It's been on my radar for a while. I've sent you the link to my town before to our town's Historical society. 

[saraha]

Yes! And this town has two places that are open for tours and a river walk that has signs out in front of each house that talks about the abolitionist families that built each one 🥰. Then there’s the freedom center in Cincinnati that has a movie Oprah made at our site

[QueenCat]

4 minutes ago, saraha said:

Yes! And this town has two places that are open for tours and a river walk that has signs out in front of each house that talks about the abolitionist families that built each one 🥰. Then there’s the freedom center in Cincinnati that has a movie Oprah made at our site

Sent you a PM. I haven't been to the freedom center yet, but it's on my agenda soon. I want to see the Pompeii exhibit that's nearby & leaving soon.

 

[saraha]

If you all come, I know a lady who would happily cater a very nice boxed lunch! 😆

Then we can take the ferry across the river and shop at George Clooney’s mom’s antique shop and have a fancy dinner, or go to the brewery!

For bonus points we could tour US Grant’s home while we are at it

[QueenCat]

7 minutes ago, saraha said:

If you all come, I know a lady who would happily cater a very nice boxed lunch! 😆

Then we can take the ferry across the river and shop at George Clooney’s mom’s antique shop and have a fancy dinner, or go to the brewery!

For bonus points we could tour US Grant’s home while we are at it

LOVE THIS!!!!! 

[gardenmom5]

40 minutes ago, QueenCat said:

YES!!! From prior convos, I think I'm only a couple of hours, at most, from the location in question.

Slumber party at my house.

I have LOTS of airmiles...

[kbutton]

2 hours ago, saraha said:

If you all come, I know a lady who would happily cater a very nice boxed lunch! 😆

Then we can take the ferry across the river and shop at George Clooney’s mom’s antique shop and have a fancy dinner, or go to the brewery!

For bonus points we could tour US Grant’s home while we are at it

Ooh, I would like to be included if possible. I am fairly close too, and visiting as many state sites as possible had been on my list!!!

[Clarita]

The tour companies aren't idiots either (I mean some might be but hopefully some of them are competent), they can make a decision themselves that box lunch lady can handle the volume and give better food. Of course some may choose to still work with Subway for whatever reason as well (some companies like to work with big companies 🤷‍♀️). 

He's a jerk for sure, but I'm not sure this is a fire-able offense or an enforceable wrong doing.  

For some encouragement, when I had a job that I had some sway over vendors I'd encounter this sort of thing often enough (swarmy people meddling with their "insider information" to try and sway business. You make nice with the person and you make them feel important to not sever the "connection" but you also need to make your own decision based on all the information not just want one guy says.  

[Tenaj]

13 hours ago, QueenCat said:

I could always take a field trip to your location & complain about him afterward. 

I could do the same . . .