No clear path

[ProudGrandma]

Our 22 year old son has spent the last 4 years exploring possible career paths by taking classes at a college and he still has no clear path.   He is musical and athletic, but prefers to participate rather that teach or coach... but he isn't good enough to make either one of these things a career. 

We aren't pushing college as we know it's not for everyone...however he doesn't have any interest in any kind of trade either.  

He simply isn't academic.  He's smart and is a loyal employee, but he can't find a job he likes to do either... so he is loyal for a time,  but then he is happy to be done at the end of the summer... for example.  

He's not self motivated,  but I feel that at least part of that is because he doesn't have a direction.  The most motivated I have seen him was last summer when he worked in  food service. He didn't like the job,  but he made a lot of money because of tips and he was wanting to buy a car... which he did. 

How do we help him find a path towards something?  I feel like we have been running in this hamster wheel for 4 years with him.  

[Laura Corin]

@ProudGrandma, of my two, only one has settled into a direction. The other is looking around. I am most concerned at this stage that he is responsible for supporting himself.  We help out a little  - he is still on our phone family plan, and we pay for his tickets home when he visits - but the responsibility is mostly his. Where is your son as far as supporting himself? Is that an angle to stress?

[ProudGrandma]

10 minutes ago, Laura Corin said:

@ProudGrandma, of my two, only one has settled into a direction. The other is looking around. I am most concerned at this stage that he is responsible for supporting himself.  We help out a little  - he is still on our phone family plan, and we pay for his tickets home when he visits - but the responsibility is mostly his. Where is your son as far as supporting himself? Is that an angle to stress?

So far he has lived at college and his grandparents are helping out financially for his school expenses. So,  no,  he isn't mostly self supporting.

To also be fair,  up until this summer we have lived in an area of the country where good jobs are hard to find... but this summer we are moving to a bigger city.  So, if he decides not go back to school,  there should be better job opportunities. 

I think this would be something we would stress if he didn't go back to school. 

[Bambam]

Would he be willing in taking one of those career cluster/aptitude tests? Maybe having someone help define ideas/directions might be of assistance? I know these are not cheap, but it might be something that would give him some ideas.  We never did the paid ones, but I have friends who did with their children and found them useful.  Suggesting paid because sometimes if someone pays for something - or knows someone did, they give it more credence.  But you can also try this - https://www.careeronestop.org/ExploreCareers/explore-careers.aspx

I am not a big fan of the military, but I do think that it is a valid option for some directionless lack-of-motivation young adults.  They may or may not learn useful career skills (but much more likely if parent works with them to try to help them select from the available options), but they will get 4 years experience in working and supporting themselves. 

Peacecorps?

I may be harsh, but I would be pushing for him to be more self-supporting. Sometimes self-motivation needs a push.  Laying out a timeline of his own expenses he needs to contribute to maybe a useful external motivator. Car, car insurance, gas/repair money, food contribution (if he is eating any food you purchase), rent contribution (if he lives at home), etc.  We moved our kids slowly along this direction when they were in college. 


 

[ProudGrandma]

I thought about these tests.  He took several before his first year of college...we didn't do any paid ones... and we were no closer to knowing a possible path.  Are the paid ones that much better??

Might be time to revisit this. 

Military isn't really an option either... and you aren't being harsh to suggest self supporting... which we would be pushing for if he stops school. 

We are just so sad he put in 4 years and has a lot of random credits... and I just wish he could get a degree... any degree....because we know that looks better on any resume.

Thanks. 

Edited June 10 by ProudGrandma

[Ginevra]

I had my kids (plus myself) do YouScience, which was paid. I did think it was worth the fee, because of the valuable statistics on what job opportunities are likely to grow, average salary, areas of the country you can expect to find particular jobs, etc. But nobody (including me) has ever taken a test like that and suddenly had a burning passion for what to be. 
 

I think sometimes young people are expecting to find some thrilling, perfect job. Call it Influencer Culture. One thing I have told my young adults many times is that most people don’t work in some perfect career they wanted to do since age six. Most people settle on something they *can* do, and it pays the bills, and it can really just be adequate without being amazing. 
 

This is a little bit different, because the kid I’m about to mention is still in college and this is a summer job, but: my son has a standing job at a fast food place where he’s worked for three years. He complained about it when he graduated high school but I said, “Well, you need to do some kind of job over the summer, so unless you find something else in the next two weeks, I suggest just go back to the chicken place.” So he did.
 

When this summer started, he complained about it again. Again I said, “When I get back home from vacation you either need to be back on the schedule at the chicken place or else have a different job as a done deal, but you can’t waste the summer not working just because the chicken place is annoying.” So, when I got back from vacation, he was back on the schedule at the chicken place. 
 

Sometimes I think we have to push. It’s too easy for young people to get the idea that they should never be uncomfortable and never have to grit through a job they don’t love. This young man might need more of a reality check than he’s been getting. 
 

IMO, that is one of the things that I think is good about college. It’s a four year lesson in putting up with roommates, professors and staff you don’t necessarily like. It’s doing a lot of things that are required, even if you can’t see  the purpose. And lastly, because college is more likely to put a young person in a cohort of people who do understand they will have to do *something* to put bread on the table. 

[Arcadia]

8 minutes ago, ProudGrandma said:

We are just so sad he put in 4 years and has a lot of random credits... and I just wish he could get a degree... any degree....because we know that looks better on any resume.

Has he spoke with his academic advisor? What was his declared major? My husband got a degree for the sake of getting a degree. He also went back for a phd later for the sake of the stipend because he was unemployed at that time. Since your son is able to work to save and buy a car, maybe have a good chat and discuss about paying for some of his own expenses and building his own nest egg. While I knew that I want to be an engineer, it wasn’t until I was 29 that I got a job I enjoyed doing.
Career tests were not useful for my husband because he is very neutral, his main aim is to earn a decent salary. He has a high tolerance level. Career tests kind of tell me what I already knew, that I dislike customer facing and/or sales types of jobs. 

[Katy]

I’d encourage a directionless person to choose the highest paying field they might be capable of doing well. Programming (a business tech degree is easier to get than computer science), Accounting, Finance (depending on the area of the country you live), Engineering, possibly medicine. The latter two are probably the most difficult to get into. 

[Harriet Vane]

38 minutes ago, ProudGrandma said:

I thought about these tests.  He took several before his first year of college...we didn't do any paid ones... and we were no closer to knowing a possible path.  Are the paid ones that much better??

Might be time to revisit this. 

Military isn't really an option either... and you aren't being harsh to suggest self supporting... which we would be pushing for if he stops school. 

We are just so sad he put in 4 years and has a lot of random credits... and I just wish he could get a degree... any degree....because we know that looks better on any resume.

Thanks. 

Ask a guidance counselor at the school what degrees are within his reach--he might be able to nail down a degree within a year. Go with something general that will apply to lots of kinds of things. I wonder if a business degree will suit? That way he at least gets a degree that helps justify the debt, and having a degree is often a ticket to better pay. 

[catz]

1 hour ago, Bambam said:

Peacecorps?

I may be harsh, but I would be pushing for him to be more self-supporting. Sometimes self-motivation needs a push.  Laying out a timeline of his own expenses he needs to contribute to maybe a useful external motivator. Car, car insurance, gas/repair money, food contribution (if he is eating any food you purchase), rent contribution (if he lives at home), etc.  We moved our kids slowly along this direction when they were in college. 

Peacecorp is really competitive for entry actually and I think you really have to be a motivated, self starter to get through and most have degrees.  But Americorp could fit.  I know a few young adults where this was a positive next step.

I totally agree about pushing on self supporting.  We've have had to do some baby stepping on this in recent history for both our young adults.  Requiring school or a job or both if part time isn't unreasonable.  Is he anywhere close on a college degree?  It really doesn't matter what it is if, that can open some doors.  Sometimes when we want something to happen, we have to schedule check ins and help break down to do lists.    

[almondbutterandjelly]

If it were me, I would take a hard look at his transcript of classes and figure out the quickest way to a degree.  Get that done.  Then worry about next steps.

[bolt.]

I think you might also want to consider whether 'no clear path' is a viable way to live a life.

I have a low-drive low-skills acquaintance that climbed from a part time job at a convenience store to management and worked for years. Then, with help from a buddy from bar trivia (bar trivia is possibly my acquaintance's actual passion) he transitioned to a low level admin role at a lumber yard and began to advance towards leadership and management there. He's smart, trainable, reasonably diligent, funny, and personable -- workplaces tend to like him. He has a family, and his paycheck is sufficient (together with his spouse's income, I presume) to cover their expenses and enjoy their real life together.

Maybe he enjoys his work, and maybe not, but his motivation has always simply been to exchange his time for enough money to live off.

So, what I'm saying is that for lots of people the satisfaction in life is outside the workplace. And there are lots of workaday jobs available to provide a mediocre paycheck for a mediocre day's work. Music and sports can make your kid's life a great life even if his day job is lackluster and directionless. He doesn't need to find work that he loves: but he does need to work.

I agree that if his various credits can be tied up, within a short timeline, into a degree of any kind: that will improve his chances of a better than mediocre day job, and a larger paycheck to fund what he actually likes to do with his time. I would try to lean him in that direction if it seems reasonable.

[Matryoshka]

2 hours ago, almondbutterandjelly said:

If it were me, I would take a hard look at his transcript of classes and figure out the quickest way to a degree.  Get that done.  Then worry about next steps.

Yeah, I pretty much took classes i thought were interesting and after two years and told my parents I might need another year to figure things out and they asked how I'd be paying for that. So I took the classes I'd done and tied them together with metaphorical string and spackle and made up an individualized major. My university did have this as an option,  but I had to write a proposal to explain why - other than 'my parents aren't paying for more than 4 years' (and college was waaaay cheaper in the 80s) - but boy did that motivate me!

Edited June 11 by Matryoshka

[PeterPan]

5 hours ago, ProudGrandma said:

How do we help him find a path towards something? 

He's young so he might be just as happening leaning in on his food service experience. https://jobs.carnival.com/location/alaska-jobs/241/6252001-5879092/3

Has he done career testing at the college? Can an advisor there help him to wrap up his courses into some kind of degree (2 or 4 year) so he can get done? Maybe they could at least get him a 2 year degree so he'd have something to put on a resume, some sense of completion.

 

[Bootsie]

Some of us are lucky to see a clear path for a career we will enjoy and follow tht path without too many twists, turns, and detours.  But, I think that situation is rarer than you think.  I know people who are in their 40s and 50's who enjoy their work who never even thought of that type of work or career when the were in their 20s or even early 30s.  I know other people who never have a career that is something they are passionate about and enjoy--their work is really a means to an end; they work all week to have money to do the things they would like to do.  If he enjoys music and athletics, I would encourage him to find work that supports himself and allows him the time and resources to pursue those interests outside of work.  I think stressing finding a meaningful, well-defined career path adds additional stress for some people,  And, unless you are on a very narrow, specific college track (like nursing) few college students have a clear path from major to specific job; IME many people fall into a job that may be very different than what they thought their path would be.  

[Tap]

Is he ADHD? Sounds like he is interested for short bits of time, then moves on to the next high interest thing. He may need to find a medium-interest job that is a steady paycheck, and follow his interests as hobbies. 

Edited June 11 by Tap

[iamonlyone]

6 hours ago, ProudGrandma said:

We are just so sad he put in 4 years and has a lot of random credits... and I just wish he could get a degree... any degree....because we know that looks better on any resume.

 

Some universities have Bachelor's of General Studies completion programs or, like others have mentioned, individualized degrees like tailored Interdisciplinary Studies degrees that  emphasis two or more areas. He might see if his university offers something similar.

[Lori D.]

Agreeing with above posters:
- career test, like YouScience helps some people expand their thinking about what they would enjoy doing
- some are "late bloomers" about figuring out what they want to do -- often mid- to late-20s
- some find there is no "one perfect career field" -- it is about finding something they don't mind doing for the $$, and including one's interests (like music and athletics) as hobbies and in one's personal time

I had 2 "late bloomers" for figuring out what they wanted to do -- one was 23yo and the other 25yo before they settled into a field -- and the older one then had to go back and get a second Bachelor's in a totally new field, so almost 30yo before getting really rolling in his career.

In case it helps, below are some jobs that your DS might not have thought of that are related in different ways to his interests in music and athletics:

Music Industry Jobs
- cruise ship musician -- perform/entertain for passengers on cruise ships
- accompanist -- accompanies singers, dancers, Instrumentalists for performances / rehearsals
- session musician --  performs a backing track for another musician
- video game music composer
- sound designer -- creates sounds and audio effects for media (film, video games, etc.)
- dj
- audio engineer -- set up recording gear / sound reinforcement equipment for recording or performances
- sound technician -- sets up / operates sound board and other equipment for recording or performances
- recording engineer -- operates and sets up the recording equipment
- mix engineer / mastering engineer -- recording music
- music editor -- mixes, edits, syncs music to films
- music therapist
- piano tuner technician
- instrument repair/restoration specialist, or, instrument builder/designer

Athletics Industry Jobs
- athletic scout
- athletic trainer
- exercise physiologist -- develops training plans to help athletes reach their maximum performance abilities
- kinesiologist -- tests muscles and develops treatment plans to improve their function
- personal trainer
- referee / umpire
- sports massage therapist
- sports medical assistant

Edited June 11 by Lori D.

[Dmmetler]

6 hours ago, ProudGrandma said:

I thought about these tests.  He took several before his first year of college...we didn't do any paid ones... and we were no closer to knowing a possible path.  Are the paid ones that much better??

Might be time to revisit this. 

Military isn't really an option either... and you aren't being harsh to suggest self supporting... which we would be pushing for if he stops school. 

We are just so sad he put in 4 years and has a lot of random credits... and I just wish he could get a degree... any degree....because we know that looks better on any resume.

Thanks. 

Does the school have a university studies or similar degree? They're basically "you completed enough classes to graduate without actually deciding on a major, so we're giving you a degree to get you out of here", but they can be a real boon to the directionless kid who otherwise wouldn't graduate. 

[ProudGrandma]

8 hours ago, Lori D. said:

Agreeing with above posters:
- career test, like YouScience helps some people expand their thinking about what they would enjoy doing
- some are "late bloomers" about figuring out what they want to do -- often mid- to late-20s
- some find there is no "one perfect career field" -- it is about finding something they don't mind doing for the $$, and including one's interests (like music and athletics) as hobbies and in one's personal time

I had 2 "late bloomers" for figuring out what they wanted to do -- one was 23 and the other 25 before they settled into a field -- and the older one then had to go back and get a second Bachelor's in a totally new field, so almost 30 before getting really rolling in his career.

In case it helps, below are some jobs that your DS might not have thought of that are related in different ways to his interests in music and athletics:

Music Industry Jobs
- cruise ship musician -- perform/entertain for passengers on cruise ships
- accompanist -- accompanies singers, dancers, Instrumentalists for performances / rehearsals
- session musician --  performs a backing track for another musician
- video game music composer
- sound designer -- creates sounds and audio effects for media (film, video games, etc.)
- dj
- audio engineer -- set up recording gear / sound reinforcement equipment for recording or performances
- sound technician -- sets up / operates sound board and other equipment for recording or performances
- recording engineer -- operates and sets up the recording equipment
- mix engineer / mastering engineer -- recording music
- music editor -- mixes, edits, syncs music to films
- music therapist
- piano tuner technician
- instrument repair/restoration specialist, or, instrument builder/designer

Athletics Industry Jobs
- athletic scout
- athletic trainer
- exercise physiologist -- develops training plans to help athletes reach their maximum performance abilities
- kinesiologist -- tests muscles and develops treatment plans to improve their function
- personal trainer
- referee / umpire
- sports massage therapist
- sports medical assistant

These lists are very interesting... so many that I never thought of.... thanks so much!!!!

[ProudGrandma]

8 hours ago, Dmmetler said:

Does the school have a university studies or similar degree? They're basically "you completed enough classes to graduate without actually deciding on a major, so we're giving you a degree to get you out of here", but they can be a real boon to the directionless kid who otherwise wouldn't graduate. 

Thank you for this idea too (for the many who suggested this)...I am going to look into this...I don't think his current university has something like this .... but where we are moving to, has a bigger university and they might,  so even if he needs to take see how many credits transfer and he takes an additional semester,  maybe this can happen.... thanks for the idea. 

[pinball]

14 hours ago, Ginevra said:

This is a little bit different, because the kid I’m about to mention is still in college and this is a summer job, but: my son has a standing job at a fast food place where he’s worked for three years. He complained about it when he graduated high school but I said, “Well, you need to do some kind of job over the summer, so unless you find something else in the next two weeks, I suggest just go back to the chicken place.” So he did.
 

When this summer started, he complained about it again. Again I said, “When I get back home from vacation you either need to be back on the schedule at the chicken place or else have a different job as a done deal, but you can’t waste the summer not working just because the chicken place is annoying.” So, when I got back from vacation, he was back on the schedule at the chicken place. 

So you basically told your kid to work…and then he worked. 
 

the problem many people have with young adults who are legally adults but do not have the resources to support themselves is that they stop listening to their parents and stop moving forward into adulthood.

this can take many forms and be for various reasons. But just telling the kid to get a job isn’t enough, especially when the kid *can’t* and to parents it looks like they *won’t*.

 

[TechWife]

I’m well into my 50’s and have never had a clear path. 🤷🏻‍♀️

 

[ProudGrandma]

3 hours ago, pinball said:

So you basically told your kid to work…and then he worked. 
 

the problem many people have with young adults who are legally adults but do not have the resources to support themselves is that they stop listening to their parents and stop moving forward into adulthood.

this can take many forms and be for various reasons. But just telling the kid to get a job isn’t enough, especially when the kid *can’t* and to parents it looks like they *won’t*.

 

This is good insight.  Thanks

[marbel]

5 hours ago, pinball said:

But just telling the kid to get a job isn’t enough, especially when the kid *can’t* and to parents it looks like they *won’t*.

To me, telling a person to get a job is like telling someone to go to sleep. A person can look for a job, and do all the right things to get interviews, but some people still cannot get hired. Some people need very specific help, and not just with resume writing and mock interviews. Just like a person can lie down quietly but they may not actually fall asleep without some intervention.

Some random thoughts from someone experiencing a YA having trouble identifying a path, and knowing lots of other YAs in the same boat:

- "just any degree" is not necessarily a good thing. Employers can see, say, a liberal arts degree on a resume for, say, a warehouse job, and reject them as too high a risk that they'll leave quickly for a better job. It has happened to several people I know.

- as was said, most people don't have a clear path. I never did, yet I found myself in a pretty good career (that I left when I had kids and never returned to, poor planning on my part). 

- it seems to be harder for young people to get started on independence now than it was in the past. When I was 21 (1977, to be precise) I had no college degree, but was able to support myself with my job as an entry-level bank teller. (That meant: moving into a nice apartment with a friend, buying a new car and making my payment, paying all my bills such as insurance, etc,, and having some spending and saving $$ left over). At least in my area, that's not happening now. 

- sometimes a person needs to have a variety of jobs to find one that sticks. Without going into detail, one of my kids has struggled to find and keep a job despite a degree, good references, good interviewing, good work ethic, etc. Finally seems to have hit upon a job that on the surface looks rather unappealing. But the kid likes it, seems to be good at it, and is talking with the employer about moving from seasonal to permanent/full time. it is in a field none of us would have ever given a second look too, but the kid was desperate for work. It could provide a decent (not lavish) living in the future (more training, more skills) and be satisfying enough. Not the job of one's dream, but good enough. 

Edited June 11 by marbel

[ProudGrandma]

11 minutes ago, marbel said:

To me, telling a person to get a job is like telling someone to go to sleep. A person can look for a job, and do all the right things to get interviews, but some people still cannot get hired. Some people need very specific help, and not just with resume writing and mock interviews. Just like a person can lie down quietly but they may not actually fall asleep without some intervention.

Some random thoughts from someone experiencing a YA having trouble identifying a path, and knowing lots of other YAs in the same boat:

- "just any degree" is not necessarily a good thing. Employers can see, say, a liberal arts degree on a resume for, say, a warehouse job, and reject them as too high a risk that they'll leave quickly for a better job. It has happened to several people I know.

- as was said, most people don't have a clear path. I never did, yet I found myself in a pretty good career (that I left when I had kids and never returned to, poor planning on my part). 

- it seems to be harder for young people to get started on independence now than it was in the past. When I was 21 (1977, to be precise) I had no college degree, but was able to support myself with my job as an entry-level bank teller. (That meant: moving into a nice apartment with a friend, buying a new car and making my payment, paying all my bills such as insurance, etc,, and having some spending and saving $$ left over). At least in my area, that's not happening now. 

- sometimes a person needs to have a variety of jobs to find one that sticks. Without going into detail, one of my kids has struggled to find and keep a job despite a degree, good references, good interviewing, good work ethic, etc. Finally seems to have hit upon a job that on the surface looks rather unappealing. But the kid likes it, seems to be good at it, and is talking with the employer about moving from seasonal to permanent/full time. it is in a field none of us would have ever given a second look too, but the kid was desperate for work. It could provide a decent (not lavish) living in the future (more training, more skills) and be satisfying enough. Not the job of one's dream, but good enough. 

Thanks for this.  

[wintermom]

Most of the big universities I've taken courses/programs from or my dc have are pretty useless about actually providing the practical links to help their graduates get jobs. Even the coop/internship programs tend to be "we'll provide a list of potential employers but the student has to do all the leg work, and if the student or employer misses checking one box we will stop that nonsense and not give the student credit." I'm hoping that private colleges are better at providing actual job supports. 

All this to say, even when a student has completed all the course requirements for a recgnized University/college program, the path to an actual job is still VERY challenging. Vocational/community colleges (at least in Canada) tend to have much clearer lines from educational training to actual job placement. In fact, a lot of university grads (or transfers) quite often head to a technical program after completing a university degree. The combination of educational programs can be really useful for both student and employer. 

Edited June 11 by wintermom