Is there any way to mitigate a vasovagal response?

[stephanier.1765]

On Saturday I broke a toe, the joint beneath the toe and my foot and now my body is in an almost constant state of a vasovagal response. I get very warm, nauseous, and light headed, in some cases, very close to fainting, so that I have to sit down or I'll fall down. I can mentally handle the pain but this response is kicking my butt. I don't even have to be standing for it to happen. Are there any tricks to lessening this or even making it stop completely?

[Carol in Cal.]

Staying hydrated is key for me.  Also avoiding heavy exertion with marginal breathing—so, for instance, not trying to carry too much stuff at once up the stairs at a higher than normal altitude upon arrival, because the air is thinner there so I’m at the edge of functional breathing anyway.

Are you by any chance holding your breath a bit?  That might be contributing, if so, and it’s easy to do with out even realizing it when you’re in pain.  It’s hard to turn that around because deep breathing can be bad, too.  But focusing on breathing normally or very slightly deeper than normal is helpful to me, as is (for reasons I don’t understand) breathing in through my nose and out through my mouth.

You do have to get your head down quickly once that warm faint feeling kicks in.  I’ve been known to lay down on the floor and suck water from a bottle.

[prairiewindmomma]

Tense your arms, cross your legs, wear compression stockings (you can cut the toe out of the foot on the broken side, drink water with Nuun tablets or other electrolyte solutions

Also, although you can mentally handle a lot of pain, you might consider taking pain killers just to ease some of the stress on your body. I'm not talking anything wild---just some ibuprofen. It reduces the swelling also.  

Finally, have you been x-rayed to make sure everything is lined up and not needing pinned or the like? I have had some foot fractures with fragmented bone.....you've really only got a 10-14 day window to get everything lined up before the remodeling process starts....and you want stuff sorted or the odds of your full recovery go down quite a bit. 

[TechWife]

I think that’s your body telling you it can’t handle the pain. Are you taking anything for pain? Location wise, is this the joint that connects your toe to your foot? You may also have broken or cracked bones in your foot or damaged tendons. Have you seen a doctor? 

[Carol in Cal.]

One more thing—go braless for a few days and see if that helps.  The band of a bra does compress your lungs just a little bit, and if you’re marginal to start with, eliminating that compression can be very helpful.

[Kassia]

I find that cold compresses help a lot and obviously lying down.  Cold washcloth on the neck and temples.  Cold drinks even.  In the winter, getting out in the cold air.  I'm sorry about the injury and how you are feeling.  😞 If you find the cold helps, carry an ice pack or even just a cold water bottle or drink with you all the time to press against your neck and forehead.

[stephanier.1765]

1 hour ago, Carol in Cal. said:

Staying hydrated is key for me.  Also avoiding heavy exertion with marginal breathing—so, for instance, not trying to carry too much stuff at once up the stairs at a higher than normal altitude upon arrival, because the air is thinner there so I’m at the edge of functional breathing anyway.

Are you by any chance holding your breath a bit?  That might be contributing, if so, and it’s easy to do with out even realizing it when you’re in pain.  It’s hard to turn that around because deep breathing can be bad, too.  But focusing on breathing normally or very slightly deeper than normal is helpful to me, as is (for reasons I don’t understand) breathing in through my nose and out through my my mouth

I drink quite a bit of water. It's part of the problem because I'm having to get up often to go to the bathroom. LOL Getting up from the toilet is one of the hardest part of this because I haven't found a non-painful way of doing that. It's interesting about what you said about holding my breath. I'll pay attention to that. I wouldn't be surprised that I do because I'm finding that during the worst of the pain that blowing air out kind of helps settle me. Maybe that's because I'm holding my breath.

1 hour ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Tense your arms, cross your legs, wear compression stockings (you can cut the toe out of the foot on the broken side, drink water with Nuun tablets or other electrolyte solutions

Also, although you can mentally handle a lot of pain, you might consider taking pain killers just to ease some of the stress on your body. I'm not talking anything wild---just some ibuprofen. It reduces the swelling also.  

Finally, have you been x-rayed to make sure everything is lined up and not needing pinned or the like? I have had some foot fractures with fragmented bone.....you've really only got a 10-14 day window to get everything lined up before the remodeling process starts....and you want stuff sorted or the odds of your full recovery go down quite a bit. 

I'm going to try the tensing, for sure. Any trick like that is just what I need. I've been to the ER and had a follow-up the next day with ortho. Nothing is out of place which is good but the location means that there isn't anything they can do to fix it. Time and staying off it are the only things that can heal it.

51 minutes ago, TechWife said:

I think that’s your body telling you it can’t handle the pain. Are you taking anything for pain? Location wise, is this the joint that connects your toe to your foot? You may also have broken or cracked bones in your foot or damaged tendons. Have you seen a doctor? 

I usually don't take over the counter medications because I'm always worried about how they'll interact with my prescription meds but the doc did say I could take ibuprofen. Because I don't usually take any, I keep forgetting to do it.

 

51 minutes ago, Carol in Cal. said:

One more thing—go braless for a few days and see if that helps.  The band of a bra does compress your lungs just a little bit, and if you’re marginal to start with, eliminating that compression can be very helpful.

Interesting! Not anything I would have even thought to try. Thanks, this is an easy thing to do.

33 minutes ago, Kassia said:

I find that cold compresses help a lot and obviously lying down.  Cold washcloth on the neck and temples.  Cold drinks even.  In the winter, getting out in the cold air.  I'm sorry about the injury and how you are feeling.  😞 If you find the cold helps, carry an ice pack or even just a cold water bottle or drink with you all the time to press against your neck and forehead.

I almost always have a cold drink with me but I hadn't thought to use them as compresses. That's really smart! Thank you and thanks everyone for your responses. Truly, this sick feeling has been the worst part of the whole thing.

[KSera]

12 minutes ago, stephanier.1765 said:

usually don't take over the counter medications because I'm always worried about how they'll interact with my prescription meds but the doc did say I could take ibuprofen. Because I don't usually take any, I keep forgetting to do it.

 

This is a situation that unless there is a definitely contraindication, take the pain reliever! It sounds like far more stress on your body to put it through that kind of pain than any problem from short term use of ibuprofen. Just make sure to take with some kind of food to protect your stomach.

[Kassia]

@stephanier.1765 can you get something for your toilet to make it higher or rails on the side to hold onto to get up and down?  Both were recommended to me when I had major foot surgery and had to be non weightbearing for 8 weeks.  I didn't need them, but I have a sink counter right by the toilet that I was able to hang on to get on and off the toilet so I didn't have to put that foot down.  

[prairiewindmomma]

Toilet bars are your friend. https://www.amazon.com/Medline-Toilet-Installation-Adjustable-Bathroom/dp/B000BJBH48/ref=sr_1_6?crid=2IS4J26Z5CZBO&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.H4E9oxGOUYBHr5mW4WMgOimTq3xbexAHtHNdjGRQE565Wk5kNGm0n36VPxSgAGYJcXAtZ0n9VzlApjeFeBolH0N0vo2Pn-xhqQGjp19zTcswt-hZ6v29KS28RyELAZ1d-yNCtyL3S1Qv755XySy3RVSSiSLDltaXfN1xY7YSAgYAcioiN3ISMjD6dMZJCuOxdSQX_LWRA3ogMmxUkrE18flQ9YTw_K6JTiLT1zfzlj3DFz5GUIwV3OmYwiU4D4NPtXzLyqn4SykVE8Dr5bh3zNNEm1XRDmYyg2a8P6RWrwU.hjTtJowtItzwtgk08Rfw71z_4V9o3yO3GBiJ8aium4w&dib_tag=se&keywords=toilet+bars+for+elderly+and+disabled&qid=1717696783&sprefix=toilet+bars%2Caps%2C173&sr=8-6

Use your arms to push you up onto one foot.

[stephanier.1765]

re toilet bars - I'm 59 and DH will soon be 63 so it really wouldn't be too out of place to go ahead and put one on the wall. I'm sure we'll be needing it more and more in the future, especially since I hurt my opposite leg's knee just 3 weeks ago and could really have used one during the worst of that, as well. Putting one up really does bring home the fact that we're aging and are more easily or more likely to be injured than we were in the past. LOL I'm thinking about doing the shower too because it is really difficult to take one without causing quite a bit of pain in my foot. I had thought wearing my Crocs into the shower would have given me the stability I needed to keep the weight off the hurt part of my foot but I was definitely wrong about that. 

[Kassia]

A shower bar is a great idea.  I could use one too because my neuropathy gets really bad in the shower and I worry about slipping.  @stephanier.1765 is a boot an option for you?  I'm just wondering if that would help when you're up and about.  

[prairiewindmomma]

Do you know about shower benches? Sitting to shower can be lovely with a broken foot and a little bit of vasovagal going on.  The ones with handles aren't as pretty with the others, but it's nice to push up from a seated position if you're reaching for crutches or a knee scooter.  If you don't want to sit, you can also use it as a knee rest if you buy the adjustable height ones. 

[kbutton]

1 hour ago, KSera said:

Just make sure to take with some kind of food to protect your stomach.

If you are nauseated, it doesn’t have to be much—a couple of crackers or fry cheerios will do!

1 hour ago, stephanier.1765 said:

 Putting one up really does bring home the fact that we're aging and are more easily or more likely to be injured than we were in the past. LOL I'm thinking about doing the shower too because it is really difficult to take one without causing quite a bit of pain in my foot. I had thought wearing my Crocs into the shower would have given me the stability I needed to keep the weight off the hurt part of my foot but I was definitely wrong about that. 

I have had to really rethink mobility aids in light of my teen being hypermobile and having major surgeries. It isn’t really about age; people of all ages need supports for various things, but it’s not always been socially acceptable to use them and be visible about it.

And later your kids won’t have to argue you into safety like my DH will have to with my MIL who already doesn’t know her limits (she’s outright clumsy and has had at least three fractures from not being willing to own this or avoid situations that pose safety difficulties even without age and clumsiness being a factor).

I would maybe check with my family doc to see if this injury has unmasked something else going on. I think it’s unlikely, but it could be even something as simple as vertigo that needs positioning therapy from the fall that broke the foot (I don’t remember if this was a fall or something like kicking the doorframe in the night). I vagal really easily when injured (I twisted both ankles once while pregnant, and I still can’t believe I could get that faint without actually passing out!), but it’s temporary.

Also keep in mind that you could have soft tissue damage that needs to be sorted after the bones heal—I sprained the top of my foot once, and it kept getting worse with RICE treatment until I saw a chiropractor for it (the orthopod was a total jerk, and I already see a chiro—he did a quick maneuver, and my foot had visible reduction in swelling in fifteen minutes and a major release of pain).