TN ranked number one state to live in.

[KidsHappen]

https://www.peoplish.com/trending/worst-states-ranked-syn/?utm_campaign=Worst+States+Ranked+CDR+Beryz1605+V2+Android+b247&utm_source=Pinterest&utm_medium=c&network_code=CRT&utm_term=content&pp=0&epik=dj0yJnU9ck1PYXlZMU1iVEVSN2loX1FRQzl6LTNwUUMwOEtDQVYmcD0xJm49N0JQMl90WlJkQlMwWE52RVBvMldpQSZ0PUFBQUFBR1pINWFN

This ranks all 50 states. Some were surprising, others not so much. At least I know why they are building so many houses around here but I am still not sure where they are all going to work.

Edited May 18 by KidsHappen

[Eos]

3 hours ago, KidsHappen said:

https://www.peoplish.com/trending/worst-states-ranked-syn/?utm_campaign=Worst+States+Ranked+CDR+Beryz1605+V2+Android+b247&utm_source=Pinterest&utm_medium=c&network_code=CRT&utm_term=content&pp=0&epik=dj0yJnU9ck1PYXlZMU1iVEVSN2loX1FRQzl6LTNwUUMwOEtDQVYmcD0xJm49N0JQMl90WlJkQlMwWE52RVBvMldpQSZ0PUFBQUFBR1pINWFN

This ranks all 50 states. Some where surprising, others not so much. At least I know why they are building so many houses around here but I am still not sure where they are all going to work.

Your title says IN but I know you meant TN.

[LauraClark]

Idaho is #2?! I didn't see that coming. I'm curious about the reasoning for leaving a state/going to a state. Almost every reason they give is weather and job/retirement related. But I have run into several people lately who have moved to our state for political reasons (and I know there are people leaving states for other political reasons). I'm surprised that didn't get mentioned.

[KidsHappen]

9 minutes ago, Eos said:

Your title says IN but I know you meant TN.

I fixed it, thanks.

[HomeAgain]

That's not a well rounded ranking system.  It centers Massachusetts on "people leaving the Boston area" and not the entire state's opportunities, statistics, or economy.

There is no mention of education (Tennessee is ranked 31st), healthcare (ranked 42nd), crime (42nd), or women's rights (appalling).

All it does is say how many are moving in and out of a state and doesn't include any correlation to businesses moving to low-tax/low reg states (like Texas) and people following their career field.

 

If I was ranking states, it would absolutely not have put first a lower middle ranked state with huge deficits in their civil rights, bolstered by the ideology of those they continue to elect.

 

[Pawz4me]

5 minutes ago, HomeAgain said:

That's not a well rounded ranking system.  It centers Massachusetts on "people leaving the Boston area" and not the entire state's opportunities, statistics, or economy.

There is no mention of education (Tennessee is ranked 31st), healthcare (ranked 42nd), crime (42nd), or women's rights (appalling).

All it does is say how many are moving in and out of a state and doesn't include any correlation to businesses moving to low-tax/low reg states (like Texas) and people following their career field.

 

If I was ranking states, it would absolutely not have put first a lower middle ranked state with huge deficits in their civil rights, bolstered by the ideology of those they continue to elect.

 

Yeah. As far as I could find they don’t list any criteria they used for ranking, and some things they say don’t really make sense. It reads as if a not particularly well educated middle schooler wrote it. 

[Kassia]

3 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

Yeah. As far as I could find they don’t list any criteria they used for ranking, and some things they say don’t really make sense. It reads as if a not particularly well educated middle schooler wrote it. 

I thought the same thing when I read it.

[catz]

Love to see a methodology because this reads different than a lot of ranking systems.  Not that I always agree with the methodology of ranking systems but there is typically some logic apparent.  Says at the top it was published at drivepedia.com and the photos show the were pulled from Reddit?  Some rando’s favored states to drive in?   Lol

https://drivepedia.com

[Innisfree]

Could summarize the article quickly by saying people move for employment opportunities and, eventually, retirement, which is often weather related. I agree that a real analysis would include ranking criteria.

[KungFuPanda]

How is there no information about this Peoplish company and why did it redirect me to some spam-y VPN page?  It was a weird website that randomly quoted a moving van company as well as Reddit articles. My guess is it’s AI generated for ad traffic and whatever criteria they plugged in for ranking doesn’t quite work out IRL. For MD it says something about there being a lot of colleges and then those students leave when they graduate??? That’s completely different than the brain drain you get from states where people move out once they’re educated. It’s all very weird but it IS an interesting conversation starter. 

Edited May 18 by KungFuPanda

[catz]

Some of the lower rank states just mention weather.  Lol ok.  It does read as AI drivel.  No offense against TN, have enjoyed visiting very much.  

[DawnM]

I know a lot of Californians are moving to TN.  Quite a few of my friends from CA are retiring there.   They said they are running into a lot of Californians.

I will be inheriting a house about an hour outside of Nashville at some point down the road.   I doubt anyone from our family will live in it though, we will prob sell and cash out.

[Faith-manor]

4 hours ago, HomeAgain said:

That's not a well rounded ranking system.  It centers Massachusetts on "people leaving the Boston area" and not the entire state's opportunities, statistics, or economy.

There is no mention of education (Tennessee is ranked 31st), healthcare (ranked 42nd), crime (42nd), or women's rights (appalling).

All it does is say how many are moving in and out of a state and doesn't include any correlation to businesses moving to low-tax/low reg states (like Texas) and people following their career field.

 

If I was ranking states, it would absolutely not have put first a lower middle ranked state with huge deficits in their civil rights, bolstered by the ideology of those they continue to elect.

 

Thank you for saying that. It would be downright dangerous for our gender neutral presenting daughter in law, and I would be quite worried about our bi-racial honorary daughter and son in law. Then again, much of the south is this way. It is one reason we are going to sell our Alabama ShanGriLa in a couple of years. We could not have predicted how far off the cliff civil rights would fall in that state after we purchased it. It was my dream house on a mountain, and I love it but that doesn't matter. I don't need a house and cheap property taxes at the expense of my wonderful family's safety and security.

Edited May 18 by Faith-manor
Typos I hate the kindle

[Dmmetler]

As someone who lives in TN, I am thankful that so far, all my kids and bonus kids have decided to go elsewhere. Yes, the COL is nice, it's a pretty state, and while it's hot for a good part of the year, it's rarely that cold. But as others have mentioned, it's not a good place to be a woman, gender non-conforming, trans, or, honestly, non-Christian in visible ways. Being able to buy a house for $150k when you can't safely live there is no bargain. 

[MEmama]

We won't even consider visiting states like TN that have such abysmal, dangerous laws. DH recently turned out down an invite to a pretty important convention there and when he told his boss there would be no discussion otherwise, she thanked him and agreed. No one  from his place of employment will be attending.

It's a shame to not feel safe visiting wide swaths of the country. It doesn't come from a place of narrowing one's circle or "because politics", but when there are laws on the books that actively seek to harm, I'm going to nope out.

 

[MEmama]

3 hours ago, DawnM said:

I know a lot of Californians are moving to TN.  Quite a few of my friends from CA are retiring there.   They said they are running into a lot of Californians.

I will be inheriting a house about an hour outside of Nashville at some point down the road.   I doubt anyone from our family will live in it though, we will prob sell and cash out.

I mean, a lot of Californians move to every state, and always have. There are more Californians than Canadians 🤣. 
 

I left California at 19--over 30 years ago--and have heard the same thing everywhere I've lived. There's just a lot of us, that's all 🤷‍♀️

[ScoutTN]

I live in TN and love it, but am well aware of its drawbacks. What makes a place good to live in has objective criteria, like taxation, real estate prices, and job markets, but also has SO many subjective elements.

And variation within supposed strengths and weaknesses. E.g. My zoned public school is awful, but the magnets schools and several public high schools not far away are quite good. It’s easy to homeschool here, but there are few tutorial options for secular families. 

Also our state has three distinct subsections - living in/near Knoxville, Nashville, or Memphis can be widely different things due to regional specifics. 

Reality has lots of gray and far less black and white than any news source will reflect. 
 

There are indeed many people moving here from CA and for many different reasons. For sure they are paying cash for houses in upscale areas. I suspect the exodus from CA is impacting other states as well? 

Edited May 29 by ScoutTN

[DawnM]

1 hour ago, MEmama said:

I mean, a lot of Californians move to every state, and always have. There are more Californians than Canadians 🤣. 
 

I left California at 19--over 30 years ago--and have heard the same thing everywhere I've lived. There's just a lot of us, that's all 🤷‍♀️

There are a lot and they are moving in droves.   Here is one article with data, I don't know how accurate it is, but the top 10 states people are moving to.   At one time TN was higher than 10 but I don't remember where I read that.   It was either top or 2nd in the article I looked at.   However, maybe the article said, "Of those moving to TN, California is the top place they are moving FROM."   That is entirely possible.

https://www.movebuddha.com/blog/where-californians-moving-to/#:~:text=Texas is the top destination,flocking to The Sunshine State.

[DawnM]

24 minutes ago, ScoutTN said:

There are indeed many people moving here from CA and for many different reasons. For sure they are paying cash for houses in upscale areas. I suspect the exodus from CA is impacting other states as well? 

Yes, and it has been the reason a lot of areas have gone up in home values.  I remember WA and OR back in the 80s and 90s and how reasonable real estate just skyrocketed and they were mad at Californians for moving in and "ruining it."   

Here in NC, as I am sure is the same in TN, we get a lot of folks from NY/NJ who come down for lower cost of living, lower taxes, etc...

[Pawz4me]

56 minutes ago, ScoutTN said:

I suspect the exodus from CA is impacting other states as well? 

Supposedly NC gets a lot of CA relos, but what I tend to see most in my little nook are people from NY, NJ and Massachusetts. We get a lot of Florida people, too, but I don't know how many of them are true Floridians and how many are northern retirees who moved there, found out they didn't like it, and decided to go "halfback" (the "halfback state" is one of our unofficial nicknames). Sometimes it seems like half the country is moving to or wants to move to the RDU or Charlotte areas, but I'm not in those areas enough to have a good take on where the most people are coming from.

Edited May 18 by Pawz4me

[Mrs Tiggywinkle Again]

9 hours ago, LauraClark said:

Idaho is #2?! I didn't see that coming. I'm curious about the reasoning for leaving a state/going to a state. Almost every reason they give is weather and job/retirement related. But I have run into several people lately who have moved to our state for political reasons (and I know there are people leaving states for other political reasons). I'm surprised that didn't get mentioned.

My sisters live in Idaho, Indiana and Florida, Tennessee and all love where they respectively live. They encourage me frequently to leave New York.  Almost everyone I know wants to leave New York.
Weather is a factor, but the taxes here are another big factor. 

[Happy2BaMom]

I always find these state rating articles/systems to be largely click-bait (this is not meant to reflect on TN and it's rating here, as I've never been there). One can pick statistics to make any headline-making list.

 

On 5/18/2024 at 12:38 PM, MEmama said:

I mean, a lot of Californians move to every state, and always have. There are more Californians than Canadians 🤣. 
 

I left California at 19--over 30 years ago--and have heard the same thing everywhere I've lived. There's just a lot of us, that's all 🤷‍♀️

Good point. California has had a population decline of ~575,000 people total (which is a lot of people leaving the state)....but that's also less than 1.5% of California's population....California has ~39 million people; it's nearly twice the size of Florida and ~25% larger than Texas. Also, if I remember right, the trend reversed in 2023 and the population there has bumped up a wee bit. Not that it really matters, just wanted to emphasize just.how.many.people. are in California.

Edited May 19 by Happy2BaMom

[katilac]

I don't think this is a very accurate list regarding top states to live. 

No shade on Tennessee, because I severely doubt my state's placement on the list as well, lol. 

[Catwoman]

On 5/18/2024 at 9:56 AM, Faith-manor said:

Thank you for saying that. It would be downright dangerous for our gender neutral presenting daughter in law, and I would be quite worried about our bi-racial honorary daughter and son in law. Then again, much of the south is this way. It is one reason we are going to sell our Alabama ShanGriLa in a couple of years. We could not have predicted how far off the cliff civil rights would fall in that state after we purchased it. It was my dream house on a mountain, and I love it but that doesn't matter. I don't need a house and cheap property taxes at the expense of my wonderful family's safety and security.

Try not to worry too much about your DIL. If she presents as gender-neutral, she probably looks like at least half of the women walking around in public on any given day. It's really sweet of you to worry about her, but I'm sure no one will bother her, no matter where she visits. 

[knitgrl]

On 5/18/2024 at 2:45 PM, Pawz4me said:

Supposedly NC gets a lot of CA relos, but what I tend to see most in my little nook are people from NY, NJ and Massachusetts. We get a lot of Florida people, too, but I don't know how many of them are true Floridians and how many are northern retirees who moved there, found out they didn't like it, and decided to go "halfback" (the "halfback state" is one of our unofficial nicknames). Sometimes it seems like half the country is moving to or wants to move to the RDU or Charlotte areas, but I'm not in those areas enough to have a good take on where the most people are coming from.

WNY here. I know soooo many people who have left for NC. It seems to be a very popular place. Property taxes are much better down there, I hear.

[Heartstrings]

I’ve joked that Tennessee is book ended by a Bass Pro Shop and a cross on both ends of the state and that that tells you everything you need to know about the state.  

[TexasProud]

On 5/18/2024 at 12:52 PM, ScoutTN said:

 

There are indeed many people moving here from CA and for many different reasons. For sure they are paying cash for houses in upscale areas. I suspect the exodus from CA is impacting other states as well? 

Don't give much credence to the article listed, but wanted to comment here.

Yes, CA has affected us a ton.  Our property taxes have gone WAY up in the last few years because property values are going up.  And yes, many of them are from CA and are able to pay cash, plus some.  We have had some ministers who have moved here who are having a really hard time finding a place to live because the property they look at gets taken with cash and a little extra.  And we are not all that upscale, LOL.   But I get it.  This was 15 years ago or so, but my uncle had a house that at the time would have been worth about 100,000 around here.  There, his house was valued at 1.5 million. They were trying to decide whether to leave it to their daughter or move.  They did end up moving and paid cash for the house and padded their retirement.  I cannot blame the people from CA, but man...  

[Terabith]

I grew up in Tennessee.  Pretty much my entire extended family lives in west Tennessee.  I am terrified to take my nonbinary child there, and I am desperately worried about my niece growing up there.  And I’m worried about what my nephews are learning there.  

[Beth S]

Rural KY here.  I've been contemplating being State #49.

Its a low COL region, and we are not particularly affected by the official minimum wage.
It's beautiful, affordable, nice 4-season weather, and most folks have extended family nearby.

I'm glad it's unappealing to move to KY!

[TravelingChris]

I live in a high ranked state.  But it is only to three areas- my city, another big city and the Gulf Coast.

[Matryoshka]

14 hours ago, Happy2BaMom said:

Good point. California has had a population decline of ~575,000 people total (which is a lot of people leaving the state)....but that's also less than 1.5% of California's population....California has ~39 million people; it's nearly twice the size of Florida and ~25% larger than Texas. Also, if I remember right, the trend reversed in 2023 and the population there has bumped up a wee bit. Not that it really matters, just wanted to emphasize just.how.many.people. are in California.

I read a comment elsewhere about this that also pointed out that most of the "Californians" moving out of state ... aren't Californians, at least not originally.  Apparently California has one of the highest 'retention rates' of born and bred natives in the country (Texas, of course, is #1), but California is like #3.  People who were born and raised in California stay there at rates higher than in the vast majority of other states.

Lots and lots and lots of people move to California, for the weather, the sun, the glamor, a job, who knows?  And then, miss home, or can't get use to the expense, the different culture where they're from, again, who knows?  And seems like that's where a lot of the California deficit is coming from.

I have no skin in this game; I have no desire to ever move to California!  Give me seasons and rainy days and snow! 😂

[Heartstrings]

24 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

I read a comment elsewhere about this that also pointed out that most of the "Californians" moving out of state ... aren't Californians, at least not originally.  Apparently California has one of the highest 'retention rates' of born and bred natives in the country (Texas, of course, is #1), but California is like #3.  People who were born and raised in California stay there at rates higher than in the vast majority of other states.

Lots and lots and lots of people move to California, for the weather, the sun, the glamor, a job, who knows?  And then, miss home, or can't get use to the expense, the different culture where they're from, again, who knows?  And seems like that's where a lot of the California deficit is coming from.

I have no skin in this game; I have no desire to ever move to California!  Give me seasons and rainy days and snow! 😂

I can see that.  I was raised in California but my parents were transplants. We moved when I was a teenager.  They were both glad to leave but I miss it in my bones, even though I know I could never afford to move back and it’s too far from where my extended family has settled.  
 

I think too much is made about people leaving California.  People have always moved in and out and the population usually experiences a net increase.  The slight decrease it’s had for tbe past couple of years is likely do more to lower overall birth rates and the decrease in immigration over the last few years than people fleeing the state.  

[Pawz4me]

1 hour ago, Beth S said:

Rural KY here.  I've been contemplating being State #49.

Its a low COL region, and we are not particularly affected by the official minimum wage.
It's beautiful, affordable, nice 4-season weather, and most folks have extended family nearby.

I'm glad it's unappealing to move to KY!

Yep. Popularity isn't necessarily a good thing.

[livetoread]

On 5/19/2024 at 6:31 PM, Catwoman said:

Try not to worry too much about your DIL. If she presents as gender-neutral, she probably looks like at least half of the women walking around in public on any given day. It's really sweet of you to worry about her, but I'm sure no one will bother her, no matter where she visits. 

You're *sure*? I mean, yes, it's unlikely that a nonbinary person will encounter hostility or dangerous situations in any given place on any given day, but to be *sure* that no one will bother them is a level of confidence I don't think is warranted. 

 

 

[Catwoman]

7 minutes ago, livetoread said:

You're *sure*? I mean, yes, it's unlikely that a nonbinary person will encounter hostility or dangerous situations in any given place on any given day, but to be *sure* that no one will bother them is a level of confidence I don't think is warranted. 

 

 

I stand by what I said.

I don't think non-binary (biologically female) people are in any more danger than any other women unless they are making some sort of public declaration and going out of their way to emphasize their non-binary status in order to intentionally bring attention to themselves. Otherwise, how is anyone going to even know they are non-binary? 

If there is a danger of hostility or violence, any random woman dressed in a gender-neutral way or who happens to have a short haircut (and that's a huge percentage of women on any given day) would be at the same risk as Faith's DIL, who probably isn't walking around advertising that she's non-binary.

Do I have confidence that women in general are safe from hostility or dangerous situations in any given place on any given day? Sadly, no. I'm not confident about that, because there are plenty of places and situations that aren't safe for any biological females, no matter how they identify.

 

[ScoutTN]

10 hours ago, Pawz4me said:

Yep. Popularity isn't necessarily a good thing.

Agree. 
Growth without the necessary infrastructure is a bad thing. Nashville is suffering for this now.

[livetoread]

21 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

I don't think non-binary (biologically female) people are in any more danger than any other women unless they are making some sort of public declaration and going out of their way to emphasize their non-binary status in order to intentionally bring attention to themselves. Otherwise, how is anyone going to even know they are non-binary? 

It's true that if there is no interaction, then by looks alone many non-binary people (biologically female) won't stand out. 

 

[KungFuPanda]

1 hour ago, Catwoman said:

I stand by what I said.

I don't think non-binary (biologically female) people are in any more danger than any other women unless they are making some sort of public declaration and going out of their way to emphasize their non-binary status in order to intentionally bring attention to themselves. Otherwise, how is anyone going to even know they are non-binary? 

If there is a danger of hostility or violence, any random woman dressed in a gender-neutral way or who happens to have a short haircut (and that's a huge percentage of women on any given day) would be at the same risk as Faith's DIL, who probably isn't walking around advertising that she's non-binary.

Do I have confidence that women in general are safe from hostility or dangerous situations in any given place on any given day? Sadly, no. I'm not confident about that, because there are plenty of places and situations that aren't safe for any biological females, no matter how they identify.

 

I agree that the risk of a stranger assaulting a woman because they pegged her as non-binary is low. The risk is in trying to live a normal, unbothered, unharrassed life when you live somewhere long enough that people start to know your business. There are states where it is MUCH more dangerous for people to know you are anything but heterosexual. Even if a person never experiences a physical threat, living among people who publicly disapprove of you is exhausting and I can see why anyone would opt out of that situation when they can. 
 

I’m not out here making a public declaration that I’m heterosexual but it’s an easy thing to figure out if I leave the house with my husband, or fill out paperwork at a local hospital or HR department. I don’t have to bring attention on myself for people to know which way I swing. 

[maize]

1 hour ago, Catwoman said:

I stand by what I said.

I don't think non-binary (biologically female) people are in any more danger than any other women unless they are making some sort of public declaration and going out of their way to emphasize their non-binary status in order to intentionally bring attention to themselves. Otherwise, how is anyone going to even know they are non-binary? 

If there is a danger of hostility or violence, any random woman dressed in a gender-neutral way or who happens to have a short haircut (and that's a huge percentage of women on any given day) would be at the same risk as Faith's DIL, who probably isn't walking around advertising that she's non-binary.

Do I have confidence that women in general are safe from hostility or dangerous situations in any given place on any given day? Sadly, no. I'm not confident about that, because there are plenty of places and situations that aren't safe for any biological females, no matter how they identify.

 

I agree with this.

I've had my hair short (pixie, and not one of the more feminine pixie styles; my own hair is a sensory trigger for me so the less of it the better) most of my life, dress entirely for comfort, never wear makeup, have always been relatively flat chested.

Haven't been harassed for my personal appearance since middle school.

[KungFuPanda]

13 hours ago, Matryoshka said:

I read a comment elsewhere about this that also pointed out that most of the "Californians" moving out of state ... aren't Californians, at least not originally.  Apparently California has one of the highest 'retention rates' of born and bred natives in the country (Texas, of course, is #1), but California is like #3.  People who were born and raised in California stay there at rates higher than in the vast majority of other states.

Lots and lots and lots of people move to California, for the weather, the sun, the glamor, a job, who knows?  And then, miss home, or can't get use to the expense, the different culture where they're from, again, who knows?  And seems like that's where a lot of the California deficit is coming from.

I have no skin in this game; I have no desire to ever move to California!  Give me seasons and rainy days and snow! 😂

Could this be partly because in most other states if you move 500 miles away you’re no longer in the same state?

I thought this collection of Who Moves maps by Bloomberg was interesting:

 

Mobile and Stuck maps

 

Edited May 21 by KungFuPanda

[Sneezyone]

12 minutes ago, maize said:

I agree with this.

I've had my hair short (pixie, and not one of the more feminine pixie styles; my own hair is a sensory trigger for me so the less of it the better) most of my life, dress entirely for comfort, never wear makeup, have always been relatively flat chested.

Haven't been harassed for my personal appearance since middle school.

Interesting. One of our employees recently said that she and her spouse are moving/selling their home to go to a nearby city because she is so frequently harassed and given dirty looks in public for being a masc presenting woman, particularly when using public restrooms. I was unaware UTIs were a common issue for women like her but she mentioned that too, from avoiding facilities. I believe her lived experience.

Edited May 21 by Sneezyone

[livetoread]

I do agree that most non-binary, biologically female people will not attract attention as long as they don't actually interact with anyone. I think there is a world of space between saying that and saying you can be sure non-binary people will be just as safe as any woman. Non-binary people actually do have to interact with other people on a daily basis, and while they can often pass, they might want to be who they really are. This can be an issue for something as simple as making small talk with a stranger while waiting in line.

My non-binary young adult often has to decide whether to correct a pronoun or pass as female. They have to weigh all sorts of things, including safety, and have to do it in the moment. Any area where people are less accepting of non-binary people means those decisions are even more complicated. So sure, as long as my non-binary kid doesn't ever find themselves in a situation where pronouns could come up, they are treated like a woman with similar risks. 

[KidsHappen]

On 5/20/2024 at 7:40 PM, ScoutTN said:

Agree. 
Growth without the necessary infrastructure is a bad thing. Nashville is suffering for this now.

As is the entire Nashville Metropolitan area. They keep building houses and I keep wondering who is going to live there and where they are going to work and how the roads are going to handle it.

[KidsHappen]

Better places to find this kind of info would be the book called, Places Rated or I think it is Money magazine that puts out a yearly report if anyone is interested.

[fairfarmhand]

9 hours ago, KidsHappen said:

As is the entire Nashville Metropolitan area. They keep building houses and I keep wondering who is going to live there and where they are going to work and how the roads are going to handle it.

 

On 5/20/2024 at 7:40 PM, ScoutTN said:

Agree. 
Growth without the necessary infrastructure is a bad thing. Nashville is suffering for this now.

The school systems up here in northern middle tn are also struggling.,

[Terabith]

On 5/20/2024 at 7:46 PM, Catwoman said:

I stand by what I said.

I don't think non-binary (biologically female) people are in any more danger than any other women unless they are making some sort of public declaration and going out of their way to emphasize their non-binary status in order to intentionally bring attention to themselves. Otherwise, how is anyone going to even know they are non-binary? 

If there is a danger of hostility or violence, any random woman dressed in a gender-neutral way or who happens to have a short haircut (and that's a huge percentage of women on any given day) would be at the same risk as Faith's DIL, who probably isn't walking around advertising that she's non-binary.

Do I have confidence that women in general are safe from hostility or dangerous situations in any given place on any given day? Sadly, no. I'm not confident about that, because there are plenty of places and situations that aren't safe for any biological females, no matter how they identify.

 

All it would take is for my oldest NB child to be pulled over while driving and a police officer to see the X on the gender marker.  It’s really, truly not a ridiculous fear.  

I know in Tennessee cis women who are tall (my sister) or who have had mastectomies (like my oldest) have been accosted in public restrooms.

[Faith-manor]

On 5/20/2024 at 7:46 PM, Catwoman said:

I stand by what I said.

I don't think non-binary (biologically female) people are in any more danger than any other women unless they are making some sort of public declaration and going out of their way to emphasize their non-binary status in order to intentionally bring attention to themselves. Otherwise, how is anyone going to even know they are non-binary? 

If there is a danger of hostility or violence, any random woman dressed in a gender-neutral way or who happens to have a short haircut (and that's a huge percentage of women on any given day) would be at the same risk as Faith's DIL, who probably isn't walking around advertising that she's non-binary.

Do I have confidence that women in general are safe from hostility or dangerous situations in any given place on any given day? Sadly, no. I'm not confident about that, because there are plenty of places and situations that aren't safe for any biological females, no matter how they identify.

 

Since she has experienced two separate scary instances of harassment while out of state (one in Cincinnati and another in St. Louis), we will give all our consideration to her lived experience.

My DIL tends to look a little more "butch" than what you probably imagine when I say she presents gender neutral. She has very classically feminine features, and recently got a buzz cut. To conservatives, she probably looks trans to them in their wicked minds who spend all day worried about other people's genitalia. 

At any rate, we don't need to agree. I simply do not consider any state, like Tennessee, who is going backwards on civil rights issues to be a "good" state. In my book, these places are bottom of the barrel which is why we are now selling my dream house in Alabama as soon as our son in law is allowed by his employer to transfer out of state. He has options for Michigan, Maryland, Colorado, and Illinois. Hopefully, they get Michigan because I would love to have my grandsons closer, and they are more likely to afford a home of their own in Michigan, than these other states. But, there are no guarantees.

[Dmmetler]

On 5/20/2024 at 9:30 PM, livetoread said:

I do agree that most non-binary, biologically female people will not attract attention as long as they don't actually interact with anyone. I think there is a world of space between saying that and saying you can be sure non-binary people will be just as safe as any woman. Non-binary people actually do have to interact with other people on a daily basis, and while they can often pass, they might want to be who they really are. This can be an issue for something as simple as making small talk with a stranger while waiting in line.

My non-binary young adult often has to decide whether to correct a pronoun or pass as female. They have to weigh all sorts of things, including safety, and have to do it in the moment. Any area where people are less accepting of non-binary people means those decisions are even more complicated. So sure, as long as my non-binary kid doesn't ever find themselves in a situation where pronouns could come up, they are treated like a woman with similar risks. 

One of my co-workers is a cancer survivor and has had a double mastectomy. She has short hair and is moderately tall for a woman. She dresses in a feminine style and has a "woman" sounding voice. Plus she's in her 60's and looks like the grandmother she is.

 

Not only has she had people accost her in restrooms, she has been stopped leaving by security and asked to show ID because someone reported a man in the bathroom.  At work, she comes down to the single stall ones by my room after having a woman scream when she entered. Said woman takes classes every week and almost certainly would have recognized her in any other context. 

[Ginevra]

On 5/20/2024 at 12:44 AM, Heartstrings said:

I’ve joked that Tennessee is book ended by a Bass Pro Shop and a cross on both ends of the state and that that tells you everything you need to know about the state.  

Don’t tell my husband that; he’ll go anywhere with a Bass Pro shop! 😝

When I have seen well-done rankings, they factor in tax burden, education and medical centers. I use to just gloss over the medical piece but now, as a cancer ass-kicker, I don’t gloss over that anymore! I am very spoilt to live in the midst of world-class medical care (Hopkins, NIH, etc). I would never consider moving to any state without that. 
 

The weather thing always makes me laugh because I detest Florida weather. Also, I require elevation/rocks/forests. I would become despondent if I only had flat swamps full of alligators. 

Edited May 29 by Ginevra
Word insert

[Dmmetler]

1 hour ago, Ginevra said:

Don’t tell my husband that; he’ll go anywhere with a Bass Pro shop! 😝

When I have seen well-done rankings, they factor in tax burden, education and medical centers. I use to just gloss over the medical piece but now, as a cancer ass-kicker, I don’t gloss over that anymore! I am very spoilt to live in the midst of world-class medical care (Hopkins, NIH, etc). I would never consider moving to any state without that. 
 

The weather thing always makes me laugh because I detest Florida weather. Also, I require elevation/rocks/forests. I would become despondent if I only had flat swamps full of alligators. 

The one in downtown Memphis is pretty awesome-it's in the Pyramid, and has a hotel, multiple restaurants, live alligators, and the Ducks Unlimited museum. There's also another one out East which is a more normal size