I hate this stuff.....

[DawnM]

This is more of a JAWM than anything, although you can certainly give input.

I won't give the real scenario because the details would be too telling and I have no idea who is on this board.

I am the organizer for these events.

Think of an older group you used to be a part of.....maybe a singles group at a church or a college club or something like that, where are there a specific set of people who won't change, and they are from the somewhat distant past.   They live all over the place now as people have scattered.   However, you have a get together every year or two and everyone is invited.   It is a long weekend event and you have looked forward to it every year because you really enjoy it.

But there is one person in the group (let's call him Sam) who didn't attend for years and years and then decided to come and join in.   Only Sam has changed A LOT and now seems to cause major drama wherever he goes as he only wants to talk about a few select topics (think political and a personal issue that he has that he wants to make sure everyone knows about and is on his side.).  Otherwise, he doesn't have a whole lot to talk about.   He also makes people feel uncomfortable with his lack of good hygiene.   

Fast forward to a couple of years ago.   After announcing the event details, several regular participants emailed me and said, "Is Sam coming.  I don't think I can deal with that again.   If he is coming, I think I am skipping this year."

Last year we opted not to inform Sam of the gathering due to the issues we have had in the past.   Honestly, it was lovely.   But I did feel a twinge of guilt over not including him as I don't like to leave people out, but if I had included Sam, I would have excluded others (albeit by their own choice.)

Now I have another friend in the group (let's call her Sally).   Sally came to me recently and said, "I don't like that people are excluded.   I can't come next time if everyone can't come, it is just my conscience."

I GET THAT!~.  I really do.   However, I also get the other side.

Basically, I have 3 choices.

1. Invite Sam and run the risk of others not attending (including myself if I am being honest)

2. Don't invite Sally next time, but leave Sam out

3. Forgo these events in the future and just get together with small groups as we can

Right now, I am opting for #3.   This is just too much drama for me.   

[Laura Corin]

I vote 3.  It used to be a good mass event and it isn't any longer.

[Lecka]

I don’t know if this is a good idea, but maybe you can announce you won’t be organizing the large event, if you go that direction, and then someone else can pick up organizing it if they want to.  

[JustEm]

I would just keep doing what you're doing. Don't invite Sam, Sally can decide if she wants to go or not.

Or tell Sally she is more than welcome to organize the event because you don't want to organize an event that you yourself won't participate in. And you won't participate in one that Sam attends.

[Katy]

I’d opt for 3. Or forget “events” at all and invite my old friends to my home when I felt like it. Leaving out the people who cause drama. 

[Spryte]

Number 3.

[klmama]

#3 sounds like your best option.  Then you can make plans with whomever you want to see, as can everyone else.  If someone else wants to organize a bigger event, they can.  

[Scarlett]

Number 3 for sure. 

[wintermom]

I've seen similar things happen, and the organizer went with option 3. It worked out very well. Way less stress for the organizer and they still enjoyed gathering with friends. 

[Tap]

#3

 

or keep going as is without Sam and drop the original theme of the group.

[gardenmom5]

1 hour ago, hjffkj said:

I would just keep doing what you're doing. Don't invite Sam, Sally can decide if she wants to go or not.

Or tell Sally she is more than welcome to organize the event because you don't want to organize an event that you yourself won't participate in. And you won't participate in one that Sam attends.

This.

Sally can come or not as she chooses.  If she wants things her way, she's welcome to plan it herself, and then she can find out how many people would rather avoid the drama that follows Sam.  (and listen to complaints from people who do attend afterwards.)

If it's a family where you are pressured to include everyone, then someone else can plan it.

[regentrude]

#3

Let someone else deal with large events if they are so inclined.

[kbutton]

2 hours ago, Lecka said:

I don’t know if this is a good idea, but maybe you can announce you won’t be organizing the large event, if you go that direction, and then someone else can pick up organizing it if they want to.  

I think this is a good option if you feel you need to invite everyone. I would tell Sally this is why.

I excluded someone from a birthday party once that I knew would wreck it. I felt bad for the person, but I had a fabulous party. My family is NOT like that, but even my parents didn’t make me invite this individual, thought they did talk to me about whether I wanted to be inclusive or not. And there was a previous history of this person making events decidedly un-fun.

More recently, an annual event we used to attend fizzled abruptly last fall. We were too busy to go that time, but with the attendance they had previously, that can’t be the only reason. The event itself is supposed to be positive (it’s one of many organized under a specific organization), but it’s in memory of someone. Well, if you happen to run into a friend or family member of this person (and there are lots), it’s like a yearly funeral. At an event that is supposed to be fun and networking!!! So, I think it’s good you’re working on this before the event fizzles in a way that no one gets together at all. 

[catz]

If you are leaning toward #3 and are fine with just forgoing these larger events, that is fine.  I also think it is fine to continue as is, not including Sam if you enjoy those get togethers.  

[almondbutterandjelly]

3.  That removes you completely from drama.

[DawnM]

4 hours ago, gardenmom5 said:

This.

Sally can come or not as she chooses.  If she wants things her way, she's welcome to plan it herself, and then she can find out how many people would rather avoid the drama that follows Sam.  (and listen to complaints from people who do attend afterwards.)

If it's a family where you are pressured to include everyone, then someone else can plan it.

Not family and I know Sally won't organize anything.  She is a huge introvert who doesn't mind attending but would never plan it.   

[Corraleno]

If you enjoy the event and don't mind organizing it as long as Sam is not included, then I would continue it that way and just tell Sally upfront that this event will no longer include Sam, and if she isn't comfortable attending under those circumstances, that's her choice and you understand. But she needs to understand that the only two options at this point are an event without Sam or no event, because you do not want to attend, and will not organize, one that includes him.

[strawberries]

7 hours ago, Lecka said:

I don’t know if this is a good idea, but maybe you can announce you won’t be organizing the large event, if you go that direction, and then someone else can pick up organizing it if they want to.  

This. If there is someone who would miss the large event so much that they are willing to take over and deal with the hassle, they can.

[bolt.]

To me, I think 2 or 3 are both fine. But a little bit does depend on the factor of whether this is "a group of friends that has a past in common" (which makes it more okay to choose to only invite the folks you find pleasant) or whether this get-together is still associated closely with an "everyone should be made welcome" type of community organization, such as a church group.

If it is still associated with a churchy or other everyone-welcome type of organization (ie, it's held at the church building, etc.) it's harder to justify inviting only your friends from within that grouping. If it's been a long time, and it's at a person's home, or otherwise has some distance -- it's easier to see it as a group of friends instead of something that is inappropriately exclusive.

I've personally experienced (more than once) churchy groups that 'dissolve' and then I find out later that everyone who used to be in 'that group' is now in a 'new group' except me. That kind of coordinated secret/tactful exclusion is hurtful when it's not supposed to work like that. It's supposed to be that anyone can come to a Bible Study if they want to. (And I don't know why it keeps happening, but that's not the point here. I don't think it's politics or hygiene in my case!) On the other hand, everyone has friends. Years later I don't find it surprising if a few of a group crew that I have drifted away from are still close and hang out once in a while. That's not nearly as hurtful.

[Catwoman]

Personally, I would still exclude Sam, and if Sally decides to stay home as a result, that would be fine with me.

You can’t please everyone, and it sounds like most of the other guests will be happier without  Sam being there, so Sally can either suck it up or stay home. (And she might just be posturing, and will end up attending anyway.)

[Catwoman]

6 hours ago, DawnM said:

Not family and I know Sally won't organize anything.  She is a huge introvert who doesn't mind attending but would never plan it.   

If Sally isn’t helping organize the event, she doesn’t get to have any input on the guest list.

She seems to have politely made her feelings known, but that doesn’t mean you have to do what she wants. 🙂 

[Rosie_0801]

Is Sally the type to tell Sam he's being excluded so he can come and cause a ruckus?

[gardenmom5]

8 hours ago, DawnM said:

Not family and I know Sally won't organize anything.  She is a huge introvert who doesn't mind attending but would never plan it.   

Then I guess she doesn't have a say. . . . 😜

It's sad, but sometimes the cray-cray needs to be excluded for the sanity and well-being of everyone else.   If he didn't bring drama, he wouldn't be excluded.

[DawnM]

12 hours ago, bolt. said:

To me, I think 2 or 3 are both fine. But a little bit does depend on the factor of whether this is "a group of friends that has a past in common" (which makes it more okay to choose to only invite the folks you find pleasant) or whether this get-together is still associated closely with an "everyone should be made welcome" type of community organization, such as a church group.

If it is still associated with a churchy or other everyone-welcome type of organization (ie, it's held at the church building, etc.) it's harder to justify inviting only your friends from within that grouping. If it's been a long time, and it's at a person's home, or otherwise has some distance -- it's easier to see it as a group of friends instead of something that is inappropriately exclusive.

I've personally experienced (more than once) churchy groups that 'dissolve' and then I find out later that everyone who used to be in 'that group' is now in a 'new group' except me. That kind of coordinated secret/tactful exclusion is hurtful when it's not supposed to work like that. It's supposed to be that anyone can come to a Bible Study if they want to. (And I don't know why it keeps happening, but that's not the point here. I don't think it's politics or hygiene in my case!) On the other hand, everyone has friends. Years later I don't find it surprising if a few of a group crew that I have drifted away from are still close and hang out once in a while. That's not nearly as hurtful.

Yes, and I had being exclusionary.   I like including everyone, but bad apples can just make it so that the entire group dissolves like you said.

 

[gardenmom5]

It's not exactly the same, but  . . My niece excluded her dad (my brother) from her wedding.  2nd ex-wife (not her mother) was talking to me saying she "should have invited her dad".  (blink).   I reminded her the amount of drama he causes, and at least that was all it took to remind her WHY he was excluded!
 (Apparently how he'd treated her fiance/husband when they met was particularly obnoxious.  This was a good guy who was willing to marry a woman with a very young child! - bio-dad dumped her when she told him she was pregnant.)
At major holidays, I've had him fish (or directly ask) for an invitation, so he'd have somewhere to go.  Out of respect for everyone else, I'd have to say "no, doesn't work".   
Sometimes it's more unkind to everyone else to inflict such a person upon them.