The man/boy in the trailer

[Scarlett]

I don’t know how many of you remember this saga with my husband’s family. But there is a mid 20s nephew, living on a family compound and it is about to rip the entire family apart. It is about to come a head. He has been on the property for one and a half years. He has not complied with one single thing he was supposed to comply with.
 

His aunt, one of the residents of the compound, is about to have a nervous breakdown because it is about to destroy her relationship with the other family who went in on this build.

I guess pray for all of us, as my husband attempts to help bring the situation to a resolution within the next couple of days. 

Edited April 10 by Scarlett

[OhioMomof3]

I'll be praying for your family. Such a difficult situation!

[KSera]

I’m sorry to hear no good progress has been made. Do you know if anyone started the processes of appealing the SSI decision with a lawyer and/or getting any other supports in place so he could move? I hope there will be a safe solution for all. 

[Scarlett]

9 hours ago, KSera said:

I’m sorry to hear no good progress has been made. Do you know if anyone started the processes of appealing the SSI decision with a lawyer and/or getting any other supports in place so he could move? I hope there will be a safe solution for all. 

The last I heard is that he was denied.  Not sure if it is being appealed.  

His van repairs of 2400 were paid for by his mom and dad.  His plan was to go back to CA as soon as the van was repaired.  It has been out of the shop for a month.  He had a job at Taco Bell but only working like 20 hours a week.  Not sure what happened to that job but now he has a job 35 minutes away at a pizza place that he just started.  New plan is he is going to get a room in the house where his girlfriend lives.  None of his plans turn out…..

Dh called his mom yesterday and they are working to get him off the property in the next few days.  My SIL….the one who had this vision to begin with to live on this family compound and enjoy the parents and grandmother while they were healthy and then take care of them as they age….she is literally about to have a nervous breakdown over this.  Her roommate who is normally very mild is furious.  So it is causing problems between them and they have been friends for over 20 years.  
 

SIL does not want to ruin her relationship with her sister (the man/boys mother).  It is just a big mess.  
 

But Dh did have separate conversations with his mom and boy’s mom. Boy’s mom agrees he needs to go but she keeps letting her son set his own timeline and as a year and a half has shown us he has no intention of going.  

[Lecka]

I really think it sounds like a poor situation that needs to change, and the young man and his mom are not going to be the ones to make a change happen.  
 

I hope things go as smoothly as possible.  

Edited April 10 by Lecka

[KSera]

If he can go anywhere, an option could be to find section 8 housing that is open somewhere in the country and get him a housing voucher there. Then family would need to be willing to help him get there. I’d personally be worried about sending a struggling young person on the spectrum to live somewhere far away with no supports around, but perhaps there are some open lists nearby. 
 

It seems unlikely they would have had time to reapply for SSI and hear back already since the last time you shared about this, so perhaps the denial was referring to the original application when he was 18? I can’t over-stress the necessity of getting a disability lawyer to file the appeal. It won’t cost anything out of pocket to do so, and will very likely be the difference between him getting approved and not.

[Tap]

My MIL used to own a small 10 room hotel in a high tourist area. Due to seasonal variations, they ended up closing it for nightly rentals and rented it monthly to people who were leaving prison as a first stop on the way out.  She also had another home that she rented out by the room. Over the years, she had a couple situations where it was impossible to get someone to leave (usually mental health related). Her resolution...to pay for them to go to another small hotel for a period of time. It cost her money to do so, but got them out of her property. A hotel has different laws on someone claiming to have rights to continue staying there, due to current occupancy laws. It gave them a bridge and removed her liability. She had them rent it in their own name and only their own information, so she was removed from liability. 

[Scarlett]

9 minutes ago, KSera said:

If he can go anywhere, an option could be to find section 8 housing that is open somewhere in the country and get him a housing voucher there. Then family would need to be willing to help him get there. I’d personally be worried about sending a struggling young person on the spectrum to live somewhere far away with no supports around, but perhaps there are some open lists nearby. 
 

It seems unlikely they would have had time to reapply for SSI and hear back already since the last time you shared about this, so perhaps the denial was referring to the original application when he was 18? I can’t over-stress the necessity of getting a disability lawyer to file the appeal. It won’t cost anything out of pocket to do so, and will very likely be the difference between him getting approved and not.

He was denied recently for sure. 
 

His dad and other family is in CA. I figured once the trailer is moved off property he will go back to CA.

[KSera]

1 minute ago, Scarlett said:

He was denied recently for sure. 

I wonder who did the appeal application and if they got his current level of functioning well documented before doing so. It would take someone putting a good deal of effort into it to do it properly, so given the situation, I can’t help but get the idea his case is likely not being well managed which is pretty much always going to result in denial.  

[Scarlett]

19 minutes ago, KSera said:

I wonder who did the appeal application and if they got his current level of functioning well documented before doing so. It would take someone putting a good deal of effort into it to do it properly, so given the situation, I can’t help but get the idea his case is likely not being well managed which is pretty much always going to result in denial.  

I know his mom did put a lot of effort into it. But she isn’t an attorney. And I don’t know if she is pursuing an attorney for him now or not. Honestly we don’t discuss him… the tension is so thick you could cut it with a knife. 

[Heartstrings]

53 minutes ago, KSera said:

If he can go anywhere, an option could be to find section 8 housing that is open somewhere in the country and get him a housing voucher there.

The waiting list for housing vouchers for a single person is years long.  3 years in my area.  It’s nearly as long for a person with kids too.  
I’m not even sure that a young able-bodied man would qualify at all.  Since SS has denied him he won’t be considered disabled. On paper he is just young and poor, but most government assistance requires poor+ 1 more thing.  Poor and disabled, poor and pregnant, poor and minor children, poor and elderly. 

Edited April 10 by Heartstrings

[QueenCat]

Have they started a paper trail, in case he refuses? It can take time to do a formal eviction. 

[KSera]

26 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

The waiting list for housing vouchers for a single person is years long.  3 years in my area.  It’s nearly as long for a person with kids too.  
I’m not even sure that a young able-bodied man would qualify at all.  Since SS has denied him he won’t be considered disabled. On paper he is just young and poor, but most government assistance requires poor+ 1 more thing.  Poor and disabled, poor and pregnant, poor and minor children, poor and elderly. 

True. I guess I'm considering him as young and disabled, but that's based on expecting that he has a diagnosis on paper he could submit. I don't know if he does or not. My young person with disabilities was able to get on the list without even having applied for SSI yet. The criteria varies in different places (it can easily be 8-10 years here, so I know what you're saying for sure), so it's possible there would be something available somewhere. I still think it's by far preferable for him to be near family though. There are many disabilities that would qualify someone for section 8 but not for SSI--the SSI standard is much higher as you have to show the disability prevents gainful employment, which many do not.

Actually, just doing a little looking, it does look like vouchers are available in many areas for able bodied people who meet income requirements. But nonetheless, he sounds like he would be able to apply as a disabled adult. Drug use could be a barrier for sure though, as it's not allowed in federally subsidized housing,

[Scarlett]

I am pretty sure there is public housing or low income housing in the current small town he is in, but he always has a reason he can’t do that.  They don’t take pets of course he won’t be able to do drugs there. 
 

Dh just told me he suspects nephew knows he has tenant’s rights, so I am not sure if he will play that card or just go back to CA if someone gives him some gas money.  His two uncles (Dh and dh’s brother who lives nearby) are completely fed up and disgusted by him and I think the nephew realizes this. 
 

I talked to my other SIL Tuesday evening and she believes this will not end well and there will be a blow up of some sort. 

[Harriet Vane]

Scarlett, seriously, the whole bunch should pay for him to go somewhere else. It's often the only way to move people on who really have very few options to begin with.

This guy is very, very good at being more stubborn than other people and seeing only the reality he wants to see. He will outlast you and it will not end until lots of ugliness happens.

I have had to do this. I have two friends who are landlords who have had to do this. It's cheaper than any of the long legal options and it's an investment in peaceful relationships within the family.

[Scarlett]

2 minutes ago, Harriet Vane said:

Scarlett, seriously, the whole bunch should pay for him to go somewhere else. It's often the only way to move people on who really have very few options to begin with.

This guy is very, very good at being more stubborn than other people and seeing only the reality he wants to see. He will outlast you and it will not end until lots of ugliness happens.

I have had to do this. I have two friends who are landlords who have had to do this. It's cheaper than any of the long legal options and it's an investment in peaceful relationships within the family.

I agree and several members of the family are willing to pitch in to get him gone.  
 

My SIL (not the boys mother) said she has considered calling him up and saying ‘we need you to leave’ and if he said he is saving money for fuel to CA/ to rent a room or whatever latest plan he has she would say ‘ I will give you money’.  And simultaneously Dh will be getting the trailer off the property.  
 

Tax season will be over Monday and more energy can be put toward this problem. 

[Scarlett]

The non mom SIL just texted me she wants a phone call tonight with us. 

[Heartstrings]

1 hour ago, Scarlett said:

I agree and several members of the family are willing to pitch in to get him gone.  
 

My SIL (not the boys mother) said she has considered calling him up and saying ‘we need you to leave’ and if he said he is saving money for fuel to CA/ to rent a room or whatever latest plan he has she would say ‘ I will give you money’.  And simultaneously Dh will be getting the trailer off the property.  
 

Tax season will be over Monday and more energy can be put toward this problem. 

I would check on the legality of removing his trailer.  He may have tenants or squatters rights.  If he has any legal leg to stand on it could get messy.  Whoever owns the property probably needs to give him 30 days written notice, just to start.   

Edited April 11 by Heartstrings

[Scarlett]

26 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

I would check on the legality of removing his trailer.  He may have tenants or squatters rights.  If he has any legal leg to stand on it could get messy.  Whoever owns the property probably needs to give him 30 days written notice, just to start.   

The trailer is not his but I get what you are saying ge might have legal rights. Pretty sure though if he moves elsewhere or sats he is going to CA then he can’t claim he was illegally evicted. 
 

[KSera]

3 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

ge might have legal rights. Pretty sure though if he moves elsewhere or sats he is going to CA then he can’t claim he was illegally evicted. 

He will definitely have some legal rights. I don’t know what they are there (is it Arkansas?), but it would be relevant for you all to know.

[Heartstrings]

8 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

The trailer is not his but I get what you are saying ge might have legal rights. Pretty sure though if he moves elsewhere or sats he is going to CA then he can’t claim he was illegally evicted. 
 

If he leaves voluntarily, I agree.  Just saying he plans to go to CA eventually isn’t likely to be enough cause to kick him out, if this was ever in front of a judge.   

[KSera]

15 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

If he leaves voluntarily, I agree.  Just saying he plans to go to CA eventually isn’t likely to be enough cause to kick him out, if this was ever in front of a judge.   

I’m pretty sure if he says he’s going to California but leaves his stuff behind, if he hasn’t been given formal notice to vacate, it’s likely he could come back within 30 days and resume living there. I just hope the kid has someone that will be providing him guidance and support 😞. He’ll end up on the streets (or worse) otherwise. 

[Scarlett]

3 minutes ago, KSera said:

I’m pretty sure if he says he’s going to California but leaves his stuff behind, if he hasn’t been given formal notice to vacate, it’s likely he could come back within 30 days and resume living there. I just hope the kid has someone that will be providing him guidance and support 😞. He’ll end up on the streets (or worse) otherwise. 

He was on the streets before he came to Arkansas. Living in his van in California. His mom, cash app’ing him money. His dad sometimes letting him stay there or at least take a hot shower there.

 

[Scarlett]

If he hast to be evicted, then that’s what will happen. But I think it’s worth the effort for the family sake to just ask him to please leave. Now. And here is  some money if you need money to get out of here.

[KSera]

Any chance of someone finding him a little piece of land legal to move his trailer to so he can have a roof over his head and some hope of getting more stable? If he’s unhoused, the chances of him being able to get a job are slim to none. 

[Scarlett]

8 minutes ago, KSera said:

Any chance of someone finding him a little piece of land legal to move his trailer to so he can have a roof over his head and some hope of getting more stable? If he’s unhoused, the chances of him being able to get a job are slim to none. 

He had a job in CA while living in his van. He claims he has one waiting in him now. 
 

You cannot help people who do not want help. 
 

He needs to be institutionalized like my brother. But little chance of that happening. 
 

Nephew is a small sample of the homeless population. 

[Heartstrings]

25 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

If he hast to be evicted, then that’s what will happen. But I think it’s worth the effort for the family sake to just ask him to please leave. Now. And here is  some money if you need money to get out of here.

That’s always the best option.  

[Scarlett]

SIlL just left work at 8:45 and talked to Dh and me all the way home. About 30 minutes..She is very distraught. She is tired of course, but also overwhelmed by the mess at the house..

Dh is now on the phone with their mom. 
 

I think the plan is Dh goes there and gets the nephew out. 

[KSera]

4 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I think the plan is Dh goes there and gets the nephew out. 

Is there a plan for where he goes in the immediate/short term?

[Scarlett]

Just now, KSera said:

Is there a plan for where he goes in the immediate/short term?

CA 🤷🏻‍♀️

I think we are down to ‘you can go where you want but you can’t stay here’. 

[Scarlett]

We just found out there is a camping trip planned for next Wednesday…. Which can’t happen if the nephew is still in the yard. That would leave two elderly women alone in the house with his friends 

[KSera]

5 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

CA 🤷🏻‍♀️

I think we are down to ‘you can go where you want but you can’t stay here’. 

Oh, I misunderstood and interpreted you to mean your dh was heading there today or tomorrow to have him leave on the spot. 
 

I still hope someone will provide him with extra supports (his mom, I would think?). On the one hand you’re right that it’s hard to help someone who doesn’t want help, but sometimes an initial boost helps make it possible and for someone who you think should actually be institutionalized, it’s not reasonable for anyone to think he should be self supporting. 

[Heartstrings]

16 minutes ago, KSera said:

for someone who you think should actually be institutionalized, it’s not reasonable for anyone to think he should be self supporting

It’s hard when it’s not really anyone else’s responsibility to support him either.  That doesn’t mean the whole family has to tolerate him doing drugs on the property while they all support him.  Unfortunately people who should be institutionalized often end up on the streets because its impossible for a family to support an obstinate adult for what might be 50-60 years of adulthood, especially when that person is unpleasant.  That was the idea behind why we used to have institutions in the first place.  
Especially if all of the supports and help are rejected.  Institutions used to be involuntary, which was problematic of course.  But family can’t force this guy to take help.  It sounds like they’ve already been helping him for years actually.  

Edited April 12 by Heartstrings

[Heartstrings]

15 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

We just found out there is a camping trip planned for next Wednesday…. Which can’t happen if the nephew is still in the yard. That would leave two elderly women alone in the house with his friends 

I don’t quite understand this, is the dude  having friends over to camp in the yard, or are all the men suppose to go camping leaving the elderly women on their own?  

[Scarlett]

5 minutes ago, KSera said:

Oh, I misunderstood and interpreted you to mean your dh was heading there today or tomorrow to have him leave on the spot. 
 

I still hope someone will provide him with extra supports (his mom, I would think?). On the one hand you’re right that it’s hard to help someone who doesn’t want help, but sometimes an initial boost helps make it possible and for someone who you think should actually be institutionalized, it’s not reasonable for anyone to think he should be self supporting. 

His mom has been helping him all along. When he was in CA and the 2 years  he has been in AR. In CA he OD’d with his cousin and they were both saved  with that drug that I can’t think of the name of. Since then his cousin OD’d again and was hospitalized. 
 

So he has had many many many boosts including a stay in detox a year ago. 

[Scarlett]

2 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

I don’t quite understand this, is the dude  having friends over to camp in the yard, or are all the men suppose to go camping leaving the elderly women on their own?  

No, 4 of the residents have a camping trip planned. One resident is in the hospital with a broken hip. That leaves a 92  year old woman and a 70 something year old woman. Alone on the property with the nephew. Who was suppose to be gone by now 

[MercyA]

I'm really sorry your family is going through this.

I still have to admit that every time I read the thread title, I think it's going to be a true crime story.

[Scarlett]

1 hour ago, MercyA said:

I'm really sorry your family is going through this.

I still have to admit that every time I read the thread title, I think it's going to be a true crime story.

That you for seeing the reality of the situation.

 

[Scarlett]

After the fiasco of him changing the oil while we were trying to watch the eclipse, during which time Dh was quite upset/angry, nephew comes in looking for Dh. And excitedly shows him a hatchet he had made. 

[knitgrl]

Praying. This is more drama than anybody needs.

[saraha]

Praying for everybody scarlet

[Scarlett]

Just updating to keep my thoughts straight. Things are probably about to completely blow up. Dh talked to his mom last night. I heard his volume rising. Apparently, she told him that the girls ( the non mom SIL and her roommate) were overreacting. He told his mom that she did not know the half of what everyone was going through with this mess. And that they absolutely are not overreacting.

He told her that he would like for her to find out today if the nephew is moving to a rented room near where he is working now, or if he’s going back to California. That those are the only two options and that we are not talking weeks more of seeing what happens. We are talking DAYS until he has packed up and moved out of the trailer.

She then said something like ‘well, et me talk to nephew‘s mom’,  and he interrupted her and said “no Mom. This is going to be handled by you and me. Nephews mom does not need to be involved in this. She has been a total enabler and she will not be any help getting him out. She has proven that over the last one and a half years. ‘
 

Then he hung up and called his other sister who lives there. He was near tears, she was crying. He is outside mowing right now. He is trying to decide he wants to head over there today or not.
 

[Scarlett]

Dh told me that is the harshest he has ever spoken to his mother. 🙂
 

[bolt.]

I'm confused why your DH is in this triangle at all, much less being harsh with his mother. Surely if his sister is having strong opinions, she doesn't need to triangle in her brother to amplify her voice? Am I misunderstanding something? What is your DH's role or investment in the situation? Is it just that he wants his sister's life to be a generally pleasant, and he's trying to support her in accomplishing that? Or does he feel that his mom is at risk in some way?

[Scarlett]

5 minutes ago, bolt. said:

I'm confused why your DH is in this triangle at all, much less being harsh with his mother. Surely if his sister is having strong opinions, she doesn't need to triangle in her brother to amplify her voice? Am I misunderstanding something? What is your DH's role or investment in the situation? Is it just that he wants his sister's life to be a generally pleasant, and he's trying to support her in accomplishing that? Or does he feel that his mom is at risk in some way?

They are ALL at risk. I don’t know what triangle you mean. There is a family crisis  with a young male and Dh wants to help. 

[KSera]

1 hour ago, Scarlett said:

That those are the only two options and that we are not talking weeks more of seeing what happens. We are talking DAYS until he has packed up and moved out of the trailer.

That's not usually going to be legal.

4 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

They are ALL at risk.

I think part of the challenge in any of us understanding the situation is that we can only guess what the exact situation is. I expect some are imagining in not as bad as it is, and others are imagining it worse than it is. There's a wide spectrum of what using drugs and having friends over can mean, so it's hard to know what to make of it.

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, KSera said:

That's not usually going to be legal.

If they ask him to leave and he leaves that is not illegal. 
Obviously if  he asserts some sort of squatters rights and refuses to leave he will have to be legally evicted. 

[KSera]

9 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

If they ask him to leave and he leaves that is not illegal. 

Sure. I mean that if he doesn't want to leave, they can't force him to leave immediately without going through the formal process in writing. IANAL, but I'm pretty sure squatter's right aren't relevant to this situation at this point. He's currently considered a tenant, not a squatter. One doesn't have to be paying rent to be considered a tenant. He didn't start living in the trailer illegally, without permission, which would have made him a squatter.

[Scarlett]

 

16 minutes ago, KSera said:

I think part of the challenge in any of us understanding the situation is that we can only guess what the exact situation is. I expect some are imagining in not as bad as it is, and others are imagining it worse than it is. There's a wide spectrum of what using drugs and having friends over can mean, so it's hard to know what to make of it.

To this point I am not even sure anyone has to understand how ‘bad’ it is. I doubt anyone would be happy if they entered into an agreement to share a property with certain people and then one of those people allowed their grandson to move in to the property and have access to the home at any time if night and day. In fact door left unlocked for him. 

[KSera]

44 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

To this point I am not even sure anyone has to understand how ‘bad’ it is. I doubt anyone would be happy if they entered into an agreement to share a property with certain people and then one of those people allowed their grandson to move in to the property and have access to the home at any time if night and day. In fact door left unlocked for him. 

No, I wouldn't be happy with this at all. This is a good example of what I mean though by not knowing how bad it is or isn't. I might have missed it in the thread, but I didn't know the above detail. I thought everyone had their own home on the property and his was a trailer. The only details I know about the problems (other than the new one above) is that he does some kind of drug(s), has a pitbull and has friends over they would not like there. And that he has disabilities and is not receiving support for them.

It seems there is at least a compromise available here while serving written notice and allowing him to find new housing by not allowing him to go into the main house, which sounds like is a discussion that would be in part between the people who live in the house? The house would be a separate dwelling that he would not be considered a tenant of, and unless there are extenuating circumstances (no plumbing or shower in the trailer?), it seems unlikely he would have any legal right to enter the house.

Edited April 14 by KSera
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