Selling classes at UCLA- Have you heard of this?

[Nart]

This is the first time I have heard about students who have priority registration or better registration spots registering for popular classes then selling them to students trying to add the class when the class is full. Here is an article on the subject.

https://stack.dailybruin.com/2024/02/04/course-selling/

A co-worker was telling me about it because her daughter was frustrated she couldn't get into the classes she wanted.  Some of the popular courses that students are selling include: Physics 5A, 5B, and 5C (physics for life science majors) and several Psychology classes, math classes, and others. 

Has anyone heard of this at other colleges?

 

[Serenade]

Quoting from the article, "Other students consider the root of the issue to be the insufficient number of lectures available for certain courses."

This is the truth of the matter. In my opinion, it's a huge problem at universities across the country.  Why do schools accept more students than they have the capacity to teach?  I get it if niche classes might not be offered as often, but basic classes needed by all students in a major in order to graduate? This is especially difficult in the sciences and tech fields, where sequencing is so important, and not being able to get into a particular course means that a student has to drop co-requisites and has to take classes that are not needed just to get to 12 hours for financial aid. Students should not have to delay graduation because they can't get into a class required for their major.  This is/was a problem at both NC universities that my sons attended -- Western Carolina and UNC Charlotte.  Sometimes I wonder if schools are doing this on purpose to drag out attendance and therefore pad the university coffers.

I don't agree with students selling or holding space in courses.  I think students who do this should be expelled because this is not fair to all the other students who have late registration time.  However, the real problem is with the universities, and not with the students.

[Roadrunner]

I agree that these students need to be expelled.

 

UCs accept more students than they can accommodate because of unrelenting pressure from politicians to increase the number of kids attending. Never mind that many CSU campuses have plenty of space. And CA population where in the cities it it’s uncommon to see families with $300k combined incomes (that makes you pretty much full pay) most still can’t afford to shell out $95k for private universities (cost of living here and multiple children pretty much makes private education impossible for those families), putting more pressure on UC admissions. 
 

Also the dreaded physics courses that are always in short supply have a calculus based equivalents and they always have space. I don’t understand why any stem major would want to take algebra based physics frankly.  But yes, UCLA seems to put everybody through the dreaded three quarter physics sequence, including CS folks. Maybe it’s a common practice. I don’t know. But in short I agree, let’s stop cramming kids into campuses that are at capacity. 

 

[EKS]

32 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

I don’t understand why any stem major would want to take algebra based physics frankly.

Because they think it will be easier (we're talking about life science majors here, many of which are premed and protecting their gpas).  What's funny is that it is actually harder.

Having taken physics for poets, physics for biology majors, and physics for chemistry majors, I was pretty amazed at how calculus made everything so elegant.  I'm assuming that the physics for physics majors would have been more difficult though.

[Roadrunner]

47 minutes ago, EKS said:

Because they think it will be easier (we're talking about life science majors here, many of which are premed and protecting their gpas).  What's funny is that it is actually harder.

Having taken physics for poets, physics for biology majors, and physics for chemistry majors, I was pretty amazed at how calculus made everything so elegant.  I'm assuming that the physics for physics majors would have been more difficult though.

My son agrees. He also says calculus makes physics easier. 

[rzberrymom]

The students at UCLA sell everything to each other. Freshman and sophomores are in triple rooms that were built as doubles—have a spare $2000 and you can find someone to switch with you. Need someone to hold a spot in a class for you? That’s another $500. It makes me sick. It’s all over Reddit and I’ve been waiting for someone to get them in a sting operation. 

On the other hand, my kid is THRILLED she’s at a school where no one bought their way in, either with donations, fancy private high schools, or even well-funded public schools (most kids there are ELC, which means they’re top of their high school rather than top overall across the state, to TRY to maintain some equity). The egalitarianism is strong there.

[Roadrunner]

Enterprising LA culture 😂🤦‍♀️

[Bootsie]

I have heard of this and similar behavior occuring on college campuses for decades.

[gstharr]

1 hour ago, Roadrunner said:

Enterprising LA culture 😂🤦‍♀️

Everything is for sale in LA: https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2024-03-16/l-a-golfers-in-uproar-over-scarce-tee-times-at-city-courses-scalpers-selling-reservations

[Roadrunner]

2 hours ago, rzberrymom said:

The students at UCLA sell everything to each other. Freshman and sophomores are in triple rooms that were built as doubles—have a spare $2000 and you can find someone to switch with you. Need someone to hold a spot in a class for you? That’s another $500. It makes me sick. It’s all over Reddit and I’ve been waiting for someone to get them in a sting operation. 

On the other hand, my kid is THRILLED she’s at a school where no one bought their way in, either with donations, fancy private high schools, or even well-funded public schools (most kids there are ELC, which means they’re top of their high school rather than top overall across the state, to TRY to maintain some equity). The egalitarianism is strong there.

This, especially after witnessing who gets into and why into privates. 

And neither of our kids have experienced any issues around registration. 

[SanDiegoMom]

My daughter said that she knew of friends that had held classes for otherw friends, but just as a favor, no strings attached.  That was much more common than money being exchanged, she said.  She also knew ppl that would petition to take an overload of courses, and then after attending the first few classes, decide which classes to drop down to a normal load.  She never did that, but she did take a normal load and drop to a minimum load a few times.  She has had many classes that she was on the waitlist or asked for a PTE (permit to enroll) and almost always managed to make it into the class.  She would always go to the first few class sessions and students would drop in the first two weeks, then she'd be able to join. 

[Malam]

18 hours ago, Roadrunner said:

Also the dreaded physics courses that are always in short supply have a calculus based equivalents and they always have space.

But the 5abc sequence is calculus based, isn't it?

[jplain]

2 hours ago, Malam said:

But the 5abc sequence is calculus based, isn't it?

Out of curiosity, I did some Googling.  Browsing Reddit discussions suggests that the difference is more math and more proofs in the Physics 1 series compared to the Physics 5 series.  However, there is calculus in Physics 5.  Here is Pearson's brief description of text used in Physics 5:

University Physics for the Life Sciences [by Knight] helps premed students understand the connection between physics and biology. By blending light calculus-based physics with biology and consistently presenting medical applications, you can see the relevance and real-world application of physics to your career. Informed by Physics Education Research (PER), Knight/Jones/Field with contributor Catherine Crouch prepare life-science students, like yourself, for success on the MCAT by showing connections between true biology and physics principles.

 

[Roadrunner]

5 hours ago, Malam said:

But the 5abc sequence is calculus based, isn't it?

I stand corrected. I thought it wasn’t. I think in many places bio majors are able to take non calculus version. 
Even more reason to attempt the 1 series then. I see Corbin sometimes teaches 5 series. I can’t imaging anything with him could be easy, 5 or 1. 
 

But yes, UCLA seems to have too many premeds. They really need to do a better job matching demand. 

[Arcadia]

21 hours ago, Bootsie said:

I have heard of this and similar behavior occuring on college campuses for decades.

This. Just google Reddit and college name and “pay for a seat” or “pay for someone to drop”.  My kid is in a bottom rank UC and it still happens. He has priority registration which is a big pull factor for going there. My younger kid is also offered priority registration there and it is a pull factor for him too.

It is frustrating to not get required classes just because your registration time slot is after all the priority registration time slots. It is emotionally draining at the upper division level where there is less choices of classes to take and you watch the number of seats go down very fast before your turn to register. It affects being able to graduate on time.

[Malam]

1 hour ago, Roadrunner said:

Even more reason to attempt the 1 series then

What's the more reason? Both benefit from the conceptual benefits of calculus, but physics 1 is harder and less relevant to medicine

[Roadrunner]

1 hour ago, Malam said:

What's the more reason? Both benefit from the conceptual benefits of calculus, but physics 1 is harder and less relevant to medicine

I thought kids couldn’t handle calculus and wanted algebra based so that’s why they were all flocking to 5. If you can’t find a class, it’s better to take 1 series and get it out of the way than spending years attempting to get into 5 series. I have seen juniors still not managing to secure spots in the 5 series. Honestly so much of the difficulty is teacher dependent. As I said, Corbin (notorious for being the hardest prof) often teaches courses in the 5 series.
also, you get a more solid take on physics from 1. Learning never hurts. 

[Roadrunner]

I will say my kid hasn’t had a single issue with registration down there. Smooth sailing so far. But he isn’t in the bio department. 

[SanDiegoMom]

5 hours ago, Roadrunner said:

I thought kids couldn’t handle calculus and wanted algebra based so that’s why they were all flocking to 5. If you can’t find a class, it’s better to take 1 series and get it out of the way than spending years attempting to get into 5 series. I have seen juniors still not managing to secure spots in the 5 series. Honestly so much of the difficulty is teacher dependent. As I said, Corbin (notorious for being the hardest prof) often teaches courses in the 5 series.
also, you get a more solid take on physics from 1. Learning never hurts. 

My oldest dd's two roommates were life sciences majors, and they both didn't have calculus until college.  One said their math series was lighter calculus and geared towards life sciences. This page lists what is covered in the class: Undergraduate Courses - UCLA Mathematics  I just assume it wouldn't be extensive enough to set them up for Physics 1 series? 

[Roadrunner]

2 hours ago, SanDiegoMom said:

My oldest dd's two roommates were life sciences majors, and they both didn't have calculus until college.  One said their math series was lighter calculus and geared towards life sciences. This page lists what is covered in the class: Undergraduate Courses - UCLA Mathematics  I just assume it wouldn't be extensive enough to set them up for Physics 1 series? 

Gosh, I can’t imagine it being any lesser than AP Calculus, which really all it takes for the 1 series. UCLa runs honors sequence in Calc and physics for those majoring in these areas and needing Caltech level learning. Regular 1 series isn’t that. 

[SanDiegoMom]

15 hours ago, Roadrunner said:

Gosh, I can’t imagine it being any lesser than AP Calculus, which really all it takes for the 1 series. UCLa runs honors sequence in Calc and physics for those majoring in these areas and needing Caltech level learning. Regular 1 series isn’t that. 

It looks like the Math 3 series is slower (three classes - abc instead of the math 31ab), it doesn't get to integration until the second class, and it's geared more towards practical applications in the life sciences? 

Here was a page that gives the topics covered in 3a: Math 3A General Course Outline (ucla.edu)   The description for the 3abc course is given here: 

Math 3ABC is the “fast” calculus sequence at UCLA. It aims to provide students in three terms with the fundamental ideas and tools of calculus that will put them in a good position for understanding more technical work in their own areas. The course sequence covers basic topics in single-variable and multi-variable calculus. This includes some material on ordinary differential equations such as those governing population-growth models. The course also covers some material on calculus-based probability theory, including continuous probability distributions, the normal distribution, and the idea of hypothesis testing.

The course sequence 3ABC is suitable for students who want to be introduced to the powerful tools that the calculus provides without going through some of the more technical material required of the students in engineering and the physical sciences. While examples and illustrations are drawn from the life sciences when possible, the course sequence is also suitable for students in the social sciences and humanities who do not require a heavy mathematical background.

Students in 3ABC are expected to have a good background in precalculus mathematics, including polynomial functions, trigonometric functions, and exponential and logarithm functions. In order to enroll in 3A, students must either take and pass the Mathematics Diagnostic Test at the specified minimum performance level, or take and pass Math 1 at UCLA with a grade of C- or better.